Arab Spring

[smc]

Originally Posted by randolph

So are you saying an individuals irrational belief somehow becomes rational in a religious context?

The individual's belief in god is irrational. Those who create religions do so to manipulate that irrational belief for a rational purpose (e.g., to accrue wealth and power, to conquer, to influence policy, etc.).

[randolph]

Originally Posted by smc

The individual's belief in god is irrational. Those who create religions do so to manipulate that irrational belief for a rational purpose (e.g., to accrue wealth and power, to conquer, to influence policy, etc.).

It is interesting to speculate that if Constantine had not made Christianity the state religion,paganism would have continued, Christianity would have remained an obscure sect and Islam would not have happened.

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

It is interesting to speculate that if Constantine had not made Christianity the state religion,paganism would have continued, Christianity would have remained an obscure sect and Islam would not have happened.

Islam is not an offshoot or a result of Christianity.

The quote below, about Muhammed, from this website gives the beginning of Islam.

In his forties, he began to retire to meditate in a cave on Mount Hira, just outside Mecca, where the first of the great events of Islam took place. One day, as he was sitting in the cave, he heard a voice, later identified as that of the Angel Gabriel, which ordered him to:

“Recite: In the name of thy Lord who created, Created man from a clot of blood.” (Quran 96:1-2)

[Elonar]

But Paganism was not eliminated, although that's another story. What may be at the back of Randolph's mind is the shared heritage of the respective written traditions of Judaism and Christianity.

Whether or not early Islam would have flourished less successfully in co-existence with multi-faith Pagan religions against its militant evangelism of ' Christianised ' lands over the two centuries from its founding is open to debate and considerable speculation.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

Islam is not an offshoot or a result of Christianity.

The quote below, about Muhammed, from this website gives the beginning of Islam.

Islam is an Abrahamic religion which is closely associated with Judaism and Christianity. All three are monotheistic and share many features. Mohammed's design of Islam was based on the early Judaism and Christian faiths along with concepts appropriate to the Arabic community. Of course Mohammed would have come up with many features that would distinguish Islam from other religions.
From Wikipedia --

Abraham was appointed by God to eliminate all idolatry at the time, and to convey the pure message of Islam to the people. God granted Abraham wisdom in his childhood and Abraham remained in a high spiritual position till the day of his death.

[randolph]

Quote:

Abraham was appointed by God to eliminate all idolatry at the time, and to convey the pure message of Islam to the people. God granted Abraham wisdom in his childhood and Abraham remained in a high spiritual position till the day of his death.

This quote from Wikipedia doesn't make sense even in a religious context. Abraham existed 2,000 years BC while Mohammed got his word from God around 600 AD. Oh well, I guess religious history should be taken with a grain of salt.

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

Quote:


This quote from Wikipedia doesn't make sense even in a religious context. Abraham existed 2,000 years BC while Mohammed got his word from God around 600 AD. Oh well, I guess religious history should be taken with a grain of salt.

You should read the definition of Islam:

Islam is a verbal noun originating from the triliteral root s-l-m which forms a large class of words mostly relating to concepts of wholeness, safeness and peace.[18] In a religious context it means "voluntary submission to God".

(quoted from the same source as my previous post)

[GRH]

Randolph, you're showing your own ignorance of Judeo-Christian history here. Muslims consider Abraham to be their father, and Mohammed their prophet. It goes back to the promise that God made to Abraham that he would have a child, through which his heirs would be as numerous as the stars in the sky. At the time, Abraham was roughly 90 - 100 years old, and his wife was equally as old. Not trusting God to bring child through his wife Sarah, Abraham took their maidservant and conceived Ishmael through her. His wife Sarah later ended up conceiving and giving birth to Isaac. Jews trace their lineage through Isaac to Abraham. Muslims trace their heritage through Ishmael to Abraham.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

You should read the definition of Islam:

(quoted from the same source as my previous post)

In his forties, he began to retire to meditate in a cave on Mount Hira, just outside Mecca, where the first of the great events of Islam took place. One day, as he was sitting in the cave, he heard a voice, later identified as that of the Angel Gabriel, which ordered him to:
?Recite: In the name of thy Lord who created, Created man from a clot of blood.? (Quran 96:1-2)
Three times Muhammad pleaded his inability to do so, but each time the command was repeated. Finally, Muhammad recited the words of what are now the first five verses of the 96th chapter of the Quran - words which proclaim God to be the Creator of man and the Source of all knowledge.

This quote is from the source you mentioned with my emphasis.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

You should read the definition of Islam:

(quoted from the same source as my previous post)

From "Islamic beginnings"

"Islam" is an Arabic word that means "acceptance," "surrender," "submission," or "commitment," and is closely related to the Arabic word for peace (salaam; in Hebrew, shalom). Adherents of Islam are called Muslims, literally, those who make peace. Muslims are those who surrender to the will of God (Allah, in Arabic) in every aspect of their lives and enjoy the resulting peace with God and each other. The prophet Muhammad gave the name Islam to the religious movement he founded.