Self Defense

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by SluttyShemaleAnna

Anyhow, I'm not sure how any of those things are worse than what has gone on in the US, which defeats the point you were trying to make that somehow having guns magically stops the development of a police state.

I never said that having guns magically stops the development of a police state.
Don't misquote me; guns scare me, so I wouldn't say that.

However, a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
{2nd amendment} Those guys seem to know more about these things that I do.

Also, take a look at Switzerland....
Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/1566715.stm
Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.

The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.

I bet they don't get a lot of break-in's either....

[JodieTs]

Seems a guy cruised thru a stop sign, or whatever, and got pulled over by a local policeman. Guy handed the cop his driver's license, insurance verification, plus his concealed carry permit.

"Okay, Mr. Smith," the cop said, "I see your CHL permit. Are you carrying today?"

"Yes, I am."

"Well then, better tell me what you got."

Smith said, "Well, I got a ...357 revolver in my inside coat pocket. There's a 9 mm semi-auto in the glove box. And, I've got a .22 magnum derringer in my right boot."

"Okay," the cop said. "Anything else?"

"Yeah, back in the trunk, there's an AR-15 and a shotgun. That's about it."

"Mr. Smith, are you on your way to or from a gun range?"

"Nope."

"Well then, what are you afraid of?"

"Not a damn thing."

[KittyKaiti]

Originally Posted by JodieTs

Seems a guy cruised thru a stop sign, or whatever, and got pulled over by a local policeman. Guy handed the cop his driver's license, insurance verification, plus his concealed carry permit.

"Okay, Mr. Smith," the cop said, "I see your CHL permit. Are you carrying today?"

"Yes, I am."

"Well then, better tell me what you got."

Smith said, "Well, I got a ...357 revolver in my inside coat pocket. There's a 9 mm semi-auto in the glove box. And, I've got a .22 magnum derringer in my right boot."

"Okay," the cop said. "Anything else?"

"Yeah, back in the trunk, there's an AR-15 and a shotgun. That's about it."

"Mr. Smith, are you on your way to or from a gun range?"

"Nope."

"Well then, what are you afraid of?"

"Not a damn thing."

Total badassry.

[KittyKaiti]

Originally Posted by JodieTs

I never said that having guns magically stops the development of a police state.
Don't misquote me; guns scare me, so I wouldn't say that.

However, a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
{2nd amendment} Those guys seem to know more about these things that I do.

Having guns doesn't specifically prevent the development of a police state but key incidents can spark the revolution which results in the overthrow of the regime and establishment of a new government, as specified in our own Declaration of Independence. For example: the government outlaws guns and negates the Second Amendment or, unlawfully imposed Martial Law or Homeland Security decides to start hauling certain peoples off to those FEMA camps.

[Suckslut]

I don't have a problem with people keeping fire arms in their homes, but I don't think it is realistic either to have 20,000 people walking the streets of London or New York City openly carrying fully automatic machine guns.

[KittyKaiti]

Originally Posted by Suckslut

I don't have a problem with people keeping fire arms in their homes, but I don't think it is realistic either to have 20,000 people walking the streets of London or New York City openly carrying fully automatic machine guns.

WAT.... only in Somalia.

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Suckslut

I don't have a problem with people keeping fire arms in their homes, but I don't think it is realistic either to have 20,000 people walking the streets of London or New York City openly carrying fully automatic machine guns.

It's alot more practical to open carry a pistol than a 20 something pound M240B. I don't think there are many hip holsters for crew served weapons like that...

Plus, quick reloads are a bitch with a 100 round belt, not to mention the additional weight it adds.

[KittyKaiti]

Originally Posted by The Conquistador

It's alot more practical to open carry a pistol than a 20 something pound M240B. I don't think there are many hip holsters for crew served weapons like that...

Plus, quick reloads are a bitch with a 100 round belt, not to mention the additional weight it adds.

My preferable loadout for outings would be an AR-15 in the trunk with ready-to-roll loaded 30 round magazines (unloaded gun) and maybe an extra handgun with loaded magazines ready (unloaded gun), preferably .45 ACP like a 1911. On my person would be a loaded CCW .45 ACP 1911 and one extra full magazine, a police style Taser gun open carry on thigh and a small knife hidden in a back pocket. Maybe when I'm settled out living in Florida or Nevada. In the home? LOL I'd be like a collector cuz I just love guns.

[The Conquistador]

My arsenal includes a Glock 17, AMT .380 Backup, 2 Mosin-Nagant rifles(One is an M44, the other an M38) and my trusty Mossberg. I have an AK-74 in the works but that is expected to be finished late September.

All I want next is a Saiga 12 shotgun or a Saiga .308. I like the semi-auto and familiarity with the AK platform of the Saiga 12 but I want a DMR type rifle that the Saiga .308 can provide without the expensive price tag or ammo cost usually associated with other platforms.

Recap:

AK-74: General Purpose Rifle
Saiga .308: Designated Marksman Rifle
Mosin-Nagant: Hunting/Longer range rifle
Mossberg 500 or Saiga 12: Close Quarters/Home Defense
Glock 17: Home Defense/ General purpose
AMT .380 Backup: I'm fucked because the above has failed me.

I'd like a 1911 but a good quality one (here in Cali anyways) will run you $700+. That plus the price of .45ACP is unfeasable at this point. If I do get another pistol, it will probably be a Tokarev TT-33 plus a spam can of 7.62x25. :D

[Slavetoebony]

Originally Posted by JodieTs

I never said that having guns magically stops the development of a police state.
Don't misquote me; guns scare me, so I wouldn't say that.

However, a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
{2nd amendment} Those guys seem to know more about these things that I do.

Also, take a look at Switzerland....
Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/1566715.stm
Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.

The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.

I bet they don't get a lot of break-in's either....

Switzerland hasn't been invaded for 800 years. This is unique for war-torn Europe. Even during WW2 they managed to keep the Nazis and allies from violating their territory. Why? Because unlike other countries in Europe, the Swiss did not give up their right to be armed.
In modern-day Switzerland, criminals don't dare to attack people because they know their opponents are armed. Compare this to neighbouring Germany. A country of very similar culture with exactly the same mix of natives and immigrants. The only difference is that Germany enforces gun control, and the crime rate, including armed robbery, murder and rape is spiraling out of control. Guns make a safer society, that's a fact.

[Enoch Root]

Both of you appear to assume that the low crime rate is causally related to high gun ownership. Which may not be the case. That effect A (low crime) exists in a country with circumstance B (high gun ownership) does not necessarily mean that A causes B.

[ila]

Originally Posted by Slavetoebony

Switzerland hasn't been invaded for 800 years. This is unique for war-torn Europe. Even during WW2 they managed to keep the Nazis and allies from violating their territory. Why? Because unlike other countries in Europe, the Swiss did not give up their right to be armed.

Actually Switzerland's territory wasn't violated because Switzerland was a neutral country and no other country wanted to violate that neutrality. It might also be noted that the allies did in a way violate Switzerland's territory. The allies sent a stream of bombers over Switzerland enroute to bomb the monstery at Monte Cassino.

Originally Posted by Slavetoebony

In modern-day Switzerland, criminals don't dare to attack people because they know their opponents are armed. Compare this to neighbouring Germany. A country of very similar culture with exactly the same mix of natives and immigrants. The only difference is that Germany enforces gun control, and the crime rate, including armed robbery, murder and rape is spiraling out of control. Guns make a safer society, that's a fact.

One of the main reasons that there are weapons in Swiss homes is because the army is made up mostly of conscripts. These conscripts remain in the army even after their compulsory service in uniform ends and because they are still in the army they are required to keep their personal weapon at home.

[smc]

What kept Switzerland out of the war was the willingness of the Swiss banking capitalists to work with anyone who needed a safe haven for whatever, be it currency, art stolen from displaced persons ... you name it. The fact that the Swiss would work any side of the fence made all the difference in the world. Every side needed its "bankers."

It had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with arms.