Liberal free for all coming to an end

[randolph]

Tracy

But speaking of not touching something. Why have you not mentioned the democrats refusal to touch entitlement programs which dwarf defense? Not only do they never touch them, but they continuously add to

Really! The Pentagon budget exceeds all other Federal expenses combined, over 50% of the budget. The biggest welfare program the world has ever seen. Fuck market capitalism, lets just spend our money on useless stupid military hardware and fat ass generals. Our massive cold war style military is an abject failure at dealing with current terrorist reality.

[franalexes]

I hope they don't cut any scientific research on how to improve the plastic ends on shoe laces.

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by randolph

Tracy

Really! The Pentagon budget exceeds all other Federal expenses combined, over 50% of the budget. The biggest welfare program the world has ever seen. Fuck market capitalism, lets just spend our money on useless stupid military hardware and fat ass generals. Our massive cold war style military is an abject failure at dealing with current terrorist reality.

Wrong! Health and Human Services has the most expenses.

There are four things that cost us money...

1) Medicare
2) Military Spending
3) Social Security
4) Interest(Treasury Dept.)

Any conversation of reduction that does not focus on these 4 things is pretty much pointless.

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by The Conquistador

Wrong! Health and Human Services has the most expenses.

There are four things that cost us money...

1) Medicare
2) Military Spending
3) Social Security
4) Interest(Treasury Dept.)

Any conversation of reduction that does not focus on these 4 things is pretty much pointless.

Don't you just hate it when someone brings all the facts into a discussion?

[Mel Asher]

Well, it's much the same on this side of the Atlantic too.

Might even be symptomatic of capitalism itself, except that there are too many nominally-Democratic Totalitarian governments which do not !

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Tracy

Really! The Pentagon budget exceeds all other Federal expenses combined, over 50% of the budget. The biggest welfare program the world has ever seen. Fuck market capitalism, lets just spend our money on useless stupid military hardware and fat ass generals. Our massive cold war style military is an abject failure at dealing with current terrorist reality.

Oops, make that 23%

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Oops, make that 23%

I apologize. The post I read was wrong and I should have checked it out.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by randolph

I apologize. The post I read was wrong and I should have checked it out.

Actually, I should have pointed out that the plus fifty percent applied to discretionary spending not the total budget.
The point is that the military spending is discretionary so if we seriously want to get out of this budget hole, we need to cut military spending. Our Congress is not willing to do that. Are they hostages to the military industrial complex? Eisenhower would be shocked and appalled.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Actually, I should have pointed out that the plus fifty percent applied to discretionary spending not the total budget.
The point is that the military spending is discretionary so if we seriously want to get out of this budget hole, we need to cut military spending. Our Congress is not willing to do that. Are they hostages to the military industrial complex? Eisenhower would be shocked and appalled.

I'm not sure where your source came from (it doesn't even have a year on it, or even a country for that matter lol), and to tell the truth, I'm not sure where my pie chart came from. So I went to the horses mouth here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/winning-th...ractive-budget

Since it's not in a convenient pie chart I made my own (you can check the numbers if you like, I didn't fudge anything. Just mouse over the categories and see the numbers there). And then I made another one lumping all the welfare programs into one category.

You say, or your source says, that defense is discretionary. I would argue that maybe some of it is discretionary, but for a large country, full of resources like the US, it's mandatory.

Defense is 19.27% and welfare programs are a whopping 60.84% of the budget. Some can certainly be cut from defense... when we're not at war, but 60% for welfare programs for a country with as many opportunities as US has is quite excessive. I am certainly not saying welfare should be cut entirely, but a number that high is screaming for scrutiny to see where cuts can be made.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

... You say, or your source says, that defense is discretionary. I would argue that maybe some of it is discretionary, but for a large country, full of resources like the US, it's mandatory.

The term "discretionary spending" has a very specific meaning in economics and in government fiscal policy, whether in this country or anywhere else. It refers to spending about which the spender can make choices. Hence, it is optional, not mandatory -- no matter how important any one individual may think it is.

That is why you never hear any mention of defense spending in the specific discussion of "mandates." Mandatory spending in this context includes the so-called "entitlement programs" and spending that is specifically required by law (e.g., a federal requirement that a state spend on a particular thing or program).

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Defense is 19.27% and welfare programs are a whopping 60.84% of the budget. Some can certainly be cut from defense... when we're not at war, but 60% for welfare programs for a country with as many opportunities as US has is quite excessive. I am certainly not saying welfare should be cut entirely, but a number that high is screaming for scrutiny to see where cuts can be made.

How about corporate welfare? It doesn't show up as an entitlement program in the budget, but is hidden in hundreds of places via tax loopholes and subsidies given to the corporations by the politicians they've bought. Are you for cutting every single penny of that? If not, can you justify the expenditure of a single penny of corporate welfare?

[randolph]

OK this is from: National Priorities.org
The Federal Budget can be divided into two types of spending according to how Congress appropriates the money: discretionary and mandatory. Discretionary spending refers to the portion of the budget which goes through the annual appropriations process each year. Total Budget: $3.64 trillion Mandatory: $2.1 trillion Discretionary: $1.2 trillion Interest on Debt $247 billion Budget of the U.S. Government, FY2011. In other words, Congress directly sets the level of spending on programs which are discretionary. Congress can choose to increase or decrease spending on any of those programs in a given year.
The discretionary budget is about one-third of total federal spending. The chart below indicates how discretionary spending was divided up in fiscal year 2011.
58 percent of the discretionary budget in FY 2011 is "national defense," a government-defined function area that roughly corresponds in common parlance as "military." However, this category does not include foreign military financing, security assistance, and other programs commonly thought of as military. Other types of discretionary spending include the budget for education, many health programs, and housing assistance.
In January 2010, President Obama announced that he would freeze spending on domestic discretionary spending for three years, with annual increases no greater than inflation after that in an effort to cut the budget deficit. The freeze did not include security-related spending for the Pentagon, foreign aid, veterans and homeland security. The proposed cuts will generate an estimated $250 billion in savings over ten years.
In reality, the proposed "freeze" is actually a cut. The proposal caps non-security spending at $447 billion for each of the next three fiscal years. During that time, inflation will erode the purchasing power of that total, potentially requiring additional cuts in services in each successive year.