Middle East

[Enoch Root]

The gall of the man, eh? I won't step down but I will get rid of my cabinet. As if it made a fucking difference.

I don't even want him to leave Egypt. I want the people to throw him in jail and make of him an example.

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The gall of the man, eh? I won't step down but I will get rid of my cabinet. As if it made a fucking difference.

I don't even want him to leave Egypt. I want the people to throw him in jail and make of him an example.

Let them get the clown out of there first, getting the form of government they want, and then put him on trial according to that new government.

[randolph]

The behavior of the army is critical in this situation. In Iran, the Shah ordered the military to fire on the protesters and they killed thousands. This empowered the radical elements and Iran ended up with the Islamic Militents led by Kohemeni (sic).
We have a huge amount at stake here. Hopefully, we have enough influence with the military to keep the lid on things.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

Let them get the clown out of there first, getting the form of government they want, and then put him on trial according to that new government.

I didn't mean leave him in power. I meant that the people should do all they can to keep him from leaving Egypt to whatever safe harbors people like him have waiting for them in such circumstances. Throw him in jail.

And build a government where the people are truly in power as opposed to keeping the structure they have now or imitating the false democracy, false freedom of the US.

[ila]

To those that advocate the overthrow and jailing of the President of Egypt there are some facts which no one seems to be taking into consideration.

Why do you want the president thrown in jail? What laws has he broken? If he has not broken any laws then throwing him in jail is tantamount to anarchy. What possible good can come from that?

The protestors have no plan other than to get rid of Mubarak. After that they don't know what they want. The major opposition force right now is the Islamic Brotherhood which is a militant organization. It is possible that they have links to Al Qaeda. If they do and they gain power then the middle east will be thrown into complete turmoil where no one will be safe; not Moslems, not Christians, and not Jews. Militant Islam's goal is to make everyone subject to their version of Islamic law and their interpretation of the Koran. So to those that want Mubarak out I would like to know what your plan is. How do you propose to keep people safe? How do you propose to keep people safe, whose religion is far older than Islam, safe from extremist.

I would suggest that people do some deep thinking and some soul searching before the advocate for something of which they little understanding.

[randolph]

The situation in Egypt is critical. The population has skyrocked the past 40 years. Egypt is running out of oil and can no longer export and now has to import oil. For years it has subsidized food and oil costs but it is descending deeper into debt. For years, we have poured money into to the country (80% of it to the military). Second only to Israel.
Ostensibly, Egypt is a secular Democracy, however, Mubarak and the military run the place. Opposition is severely repressed and no opposition party exists in a democratic sense.
Ila is right, if Mubarak leaves there could be a power vacuum leaving an opening for radicals. There are potential leaders out there but if the country descends into chaos all hell could break loose in the Middle East.

[SluttyShemaleAnna]

One good sign is that the military stated early on that they would not fire on protesters. They appear to be distancing themselves from Mubarak and the protesters don't see them as the enemy. This could be fairly crucial to the whole thing. If Mubarak goes soon, and the military support new elections, then they can keep the peace and keep the country stable and secure. The state apparatus in Egypt does have everything in place for being run democratically, all that really needs to change is for the elections not to be rigged. The crucial thing will be how long Mubarak takes before he gives in, the longer it is strung out, the more things will deviate from the normal running of things and the more unstable the country will get. Chaos is unlikely as long as the military continue to distance themselves from Mubarak and start to support democratic government. If the military and the people come to confrontation then there will be big trouble and definite chaos, but that isn't happening so far.

[randolph]

I am currently reading "The Middle East" by Bernard Lewis. He gives some perspective on what is now going on. The middle East has been a hot bed of wars for millenia. The biggest threat to Europe and Christianity was during the Ottoman empire centered in Turkey. they ruled much of the Middle east including Egypt for a time. Iran (Persia) remained independent. The Ottomans were primarily Sunni Muslims while the Persians were Shia. Interestingly, many Jews that were persecuted in Christian Europe went to Turkey and were accepted into the Ottoman empire and were treated better by the Muslims than by the Christians. The Ottomans repeatedly laid siege to Vienna but failed to break through. If they would have succeeded, we would all be Muslims.

[smc]

Originally Posted by ila

To those that advocate the overthrow and jailing of the President of Egypt there are some facts which no one seems to be taking into consideration.

Why do you want the president thrown in jail? What laws has he broken? If he has not broken any laws then throwing him in jail is tantamount to anarchy. What possible good can come from that?

The protestors have no plan other than to get rid of Mubarak. After that they don't know what they want. The major opposition force right now is the Islamic Brotherhood which is a militant organization. It is possible that they have links to Al Qaeda. If they do and they gain power then the middle east will be thrown into complete turmoil where no one will be safe; not Moslems, not Christians, and not Jews. Militant Islam's goal is to make everyone subject to their version of Islamic law and their interpretation of the Koran. So to those that want Mubarak out I would like to know what your plan is. How do you propose to keep people safe? How do you propose to keep people safe, whose religion is far older than Islam, safe from extremist.

I would suggest that people do some deep thinking and some soul searching before the advocate for something of which they little understanding.

One point, and I want to make clear that this point is made not in any way to support the Muslim Brotherhood. But that group (its name is not Islamic Brotherhood) has very publicly criticized Al-Qaeda and the number-two guy in Al-Quaeda, who is Egyptian. The Brotherhood has not been linked to any terrorism for decades, except by Mubarak, who has always used the Muslim Brotherhood to say to the U.S.: "Your choice is me or these Islamic terrorists." Notably, the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood has been very vocal in the past few days to distance the group from violence and has said that they want to help create a democratic arena in Egypt in which they can then participate.

This could all be bullshit, but we should no more rush to judgment about the Muslim Brotherhood than we should take any other positions without giving it some critical thought and analysis.

[ila]

Originally Posted by smc

One point, and I want to make clear that this point is made not in any way to support the Muslim Brotherhood. But that group (its name is not Islamic Brotherhood) has very publicly criticized Al-Qaeda and the number-two guy in Al-Quaeda, who is Egyptian. The Brotherhood has not been linked to any terrorism for decades, except by Mubarak, who has always used the Muslim Brotherhood to say to the U.S.: "Your choice is me or these Islamic terrorists." Notably, the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood has been very vocal in the past few days to distance the group from violence and has said that they want to help create a democratic arena in Egypt in which they can then participate.

This could all be bullshit, but we should no more rush to judgment about the Muslim Brotherhood than we should take any other positions without giving it some critical thought and analysis.

My mistake. It is the Muslim Brotherhood.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by ila

To those that advocate the overthrow and jailing of the President of Egypt there are some facts which no one seems to be taking into consideration.

Why do you want the president thrown in jail? What laws has he broken? If he has not broken any laws then throwing him in jail is tantamount to anarchy. What possible good can come from that?

The protestors have no plan other than to get rid of Mubarak. After that they don't know what they want. The major opposition force right now is the Islamic Brotherhood which is a militant organization. It is possible that they have links to Al Qaeda. If they do and they gain power then the middle east will be thrown into complete turmoil where no one will be safe; not Moslems, not Christians, and not Jews. Militant Islam's goal is to make everyone subject to their version of Islamic law and their interpretation of the Koran. So to those that want Mubarak out I would like to know what your plan is. How do you propose to keep people safe? How do you propose to keep people safe, whose religion is far older than Islam, safe from extremist.

I would suggest that people do some deep thinking and some soul searching before the advocate for something of which they little understanding.

Right Ila, that's the problem. The Muslim Brotherhood has already started talking about war with Israel, and rule under them would not be democratic.