Discussion about movies with a transgendered theme

[racquel]

To quote myself from an old thread:

Your favorite "Gender Bending" movie.

Originally Posted by racquel

I'd probably say Priscilla, even though it's more about drag queens. edit: I'm not saying it's the greatest movie, I just liked seeing General Zod play a transsexual and Elrond Lord of Rivendell play a drag queen, not to mention Guy Pearce. I mean, To Wong Fu wasn't that much of a surprise seeing those guys in dresses, but General Zod?

And how prominent does the TS theme have to be? Does Ace Ventura count? :D What about Austin Powers? Or Silence of the Lambs? Ya know, in Nighthawks, Stallone is in a skirt in the first scene and in a nightie in the last scene. Shallow Hal had an awfully manly tranny.

Princesa, Beautiful Boxer, Wild Side and Normal are all good movies, but not things many people would want to see more than once.

And why doesn't anybody ever mention Dog Day Afternoon? Or Dressed to Kill? Or Orlando?

The Iron Ladies is supposed to be really funny.

And I forgot to mention The Badge and Hedwig.

Transamerica is a pretty absurd movie that people seemed to like.

Originally Posted by JodieTs

Anyone who has transitioned
will see exactly what I mean.

They say about 50% of TS people have attempted suicide and 25% have succeeded. You missed my favorite quote. Probably everybody's favorite. It just wandered into my mind along with a peaceful feeling as I was hallucinating after a whole lot of pills and alcohol as I faded out.

I've ... seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate.

All those ... moments will be lost ... in time ... like ... tears ... in rain.

Time to die.

[connie]

What about Wild Zero, a japanese zombie flick in which the leading lady has a wonderful little extra.

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by racquel

To quote myself from an old thread:
They say about 50% of TS people have attempted suicide and 25% have succeeded. You missed my favorite quote. Probably everybody's favorite. It just wandered into my mind along with a peaceful feeling as I was hallucinating after a whole lot of pills and alcohol as I faded out.

I've ... seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate.
All those ... moments will be lost ... in time ... like ... tears ... in rain.
Time to die.

Yep, sums this shit up. I feel sad inside.

A bit of reference to the quote,
It evolved with the most ponient part being improvised by Rutger Hauer, who played Roy Batty
Ridley Scott left the cameras rolling and Rutger's version made it into the final cut of the movie
and from there into movie history
& 10,000 transsexual's hearts.

wikipedia.org Tannhauser Gate
In Blade Runner, the dying replicant, Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer), introspectively says the phrase, during a rain downpour, regarding his own death:

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. [pause] Time to die.

In the Channel 4 documentary On the Edge of Blade Runner, Rutger Hauer, director Ridley Scott, and screenwriter David Peoples asserted that Hauer wrote the "Tears in Rain" speech, yet the basic speech was in Peoples's draft screenplays; one included the sentence "I rode on the back decks of a blinker and watched c-beams glitter in the dark, near the Tanhauser Gate." In his autobiography, Rutger Hauer said he merely cut the original scripted speech by several lines, adding only "All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain".

Soldier
The 1998 film Soldier is linked to Blade Runner by the phrase Tannh?user Gate. In the film the protagonist, Sgt. Todd (Kurt Russell) is a veteran of the battle at the Tannh?user Gate[5], a fact momentarily displayed on a computer screen showing the list of battles in which he fought, and the awards earned; moreover, Sgt. Todd has "Tannh?user Gate" tattooed on an arm. Later, when the Sandra character notices the tattoo, and mentions it to the Mace character, he, in turn, explains: "Tannh?user Gate was a battle".

The original script depicted the battle, with detailed description of the gate, "a huge wall of metal; an impregnable fortress bristling with futuristic weapons". The available footage of the completed scene is briefly visible in the Soldier trailer.

Rutger Hauer" Blade Runner" dialogue analysis
Written by GITS on Dec-3-09 7:07pm
From: gointothestory.com
This week, as determined by GITS readers, the Daily Dialogue has been featuring famous dying words from movie characters. On Tuesday, the movie was Blade Runner and the dialogue quote was simply "Time to die," as uttered by Rutger Hauer's character Roy Batty. That inspired this email from GITS reader Paul Sanford:

Scott,
I was glad to see Blade Runner show up in the Daily Dialogue today, although abbreviating that moment to ?time to die? underplays what I believe is some of the most poetic dialogue ever put to film ? the ?tears in the rain? speech. I?m glad the Youtube clip featured the entire moment. I think it?s an interesting case study in collaboration, in this case between the writers, the actor and the director. If you don?t mind, I wanted to share what I found when I flipped through the different versions of the script that I have...


In Fancher's July 24, 1980 draft, Batty has no speech at the end. He?s simply shot and killed by Deckard. Batty does say ?time to die?, but only to taunt Deckard during the fight sequence.


This version of the speech shows up in an undated draft (which I believe is from Dec 1980) by Fancher/Peoples:
?I?ve known adventures, seen places you people will never see, I?ve been Offworld and back? frontiers! I?ve stood on the back deck of a blinker bound for the Plutition Camps with sweat in my eyes watching stars fight on the shoulder of Orion? I?ve felt wind in my hair, riding test boats off the black galaxies and seen an attack fleet burn like a match and disappear. I?ve seen it, felt it?!?

This version is in both the Feb 21, 1981 & May 15, 1981 Fancher/Peoples draft:
"I've seen things... seen things you little people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion bright as magnesium... I rode on the back decks of a blinker and watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments... they'll be gone."

And the filmed version, with Rutger Hauer reportedly improvising the ?tears in the rain? line:
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I've seen c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in the rain. Time to die."

Part of the poignancy of the dialogue is that the dilemma Batty references when he dies ("all those moments (re: memories) will be lost in time") is something we all face in the end...

As I recounted to Paul in an email, what he did was engage in "textual source criticism," which is something I studied in graduate school as part of my work on the Gospels in the New Testament. And with the proliferation of movie screenplays online nowadays, it's possible to compare / contrast various script drafts to speculate how the creative process may have worked. Given what Paul has discovered, here is my conjecture re Blade Runner:

* The first draft - Batty with no dialogue / he just dies - led someone to suggest that the moment needed more. If one of the underlying themes of the story is the 'humanity' of robots, what better way to show that than have a 'dying' robot recount vivid memories from his past, conveying a deep emotional connection to his life-experience.

* The second draft - representing the longest of Batty's final sides - is an example of taking the idea of the moment needing more and pushing it out. Too far, as it appears because --

* The third draft pulls back some of the description in dialogue and --

* The version in the movie pulls it back even more.

That dynamic of tightening dialogue, even cutting whole sides, is a common occurrence -- I've seen it time and time again when reading a script while watching the movie. I think that is in large part due to the fact that once they shoot footage and assemble it, the visuals often make some of the dialogue unnecessary. Also, too, a side may read great on the page, but just doesn't work on screen. So perhaps Ridley Scott let Rutger Hauer wing the last side of dialogue, maybe telling him to tighten it up, or a writer on-set went through the latest version and cut a few references, but after expanding the side, it contracted by the time the movie was done.

One other thing: Notice how the "Time to die" line was present in the original draft, but used to a totally different effect - to taunt Deckard. So while some writers expanded Batty's last side, then contracted it, somebody along the way remembered that line - "Time to die" - and suggested that might be a fitting coda for Batty, in essence a case of a line going through its own transformation, from taunt to sad irony.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just awesome.

[bondageboy02]

Would you guys be mad if I told you I've never seen blade runner?

I don't know about a favorite, but this thread brought to mind how Soldier's Girl made me cry.

[Amy]

Boys don't cry is another good film dealing directly with transgender topics.

[Naked Freedom]

Originally Posted by Amy

Boys don't cry is another good film dealing directly with transgender topics.

Thanks Amy for referring the movie, 'Boys don't cry', I just watched it yesterday...and came to know about Teena Brandon's story. It is quite awful to learn about such hate crimes. Hope with the legalization passed over the hate crimes in the US the situation gets better in the coming years

On the note of movies that have a trans collation in them are the X-men movies.
If you watch them again, like I just did, you will see how much the mutant struggle compares to the transgender struggle.

1. The general public knows very little about mutants and are afraid of them, i.e. mutantphobia. What they do know is from media. And most that media is propaganda.
2. The mutants, if found out, are a most instantly shun by humans. So there for most live their lives in secret, and a lot grow to hate the fact they are mutant.
3. Mutants, when they are growing up, feel like they are the only one. It isn't till they get older find others who share their plight.
4. Mutants have very little support from humans. Some, if not most, have to seek out places of refuge to feel safe to live their lives.
5. Most choose to take on a chosen name for themselves.
6. There are people who think that mutants need to be cured. When they don't. Mutants are who they are naturally.

So if you watch those movies with that in mind. Than it holds a completely new meaning for you.

I didn't used to like the first three x-men movies to begin with, because they weren't really congruent with the comics, or so I've been told (I wasn't much for reading comics as a kid :P). But having watched them again. I now have new found fondness for them.

Also... I think one of the supporting characters is played by a very androgynous woman. Arclight who is played by Omahyra Mota Garcia. She's a fashion model.

Omahyra Mota Garcia with an androgynous guy. Androgyny at it's best.