Immigration law

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I never said there was a link between race and criminal behavior. Actually that thought is ridiculous to me. But immediately accusing someone of racism when other reasons for their remarks are possible is another form of prejudice.

Exactly. And in Mel Asher's post:
He never said the reason for this was because of race. Yet you immediately assumed that was his intention. Could it be that socio-economic conditions created problems with the immigrants in the UK as well? He was talking about the politics of the situation there and how, like in Arizona, the police have to bear the brunt of political incompetence and laxity. Apparently because of this prejudice of people who holler RACIST at every chance he needed to clarify that the example he was using was a result of socio-economic conditions.

Tracy, with all due respect, you really should read more carefully. I did not ascribe to you the statement that there was a link between race and crime. I was very, very clear that I was responding to these words that you wrote: "... unless that link can actually be shown to exist."

I am not alone in being a person who does not appreciate words being put in his mouth.

Nor did I accuse Mel Asher of being a racist. Read my post again. I discussed the perception he reported. I did not assume it was his view, and I did not ascribe anything to him personally.

Nevertheless, despite the care I take in what I write, you decide to imply things about me and my motives that are simply not true. Go back and read the posts. You don't have to agree with my statements, but I defy you to prove that I did what you accuse me of. Yes, prove. It is possible to diagram writing in a way that shows the connotative and denotative links among the words and phrases.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by smc

Tracy, with all due respect, you really should read more carefully. I did not ascribe to you the statement that there was a link between race and crime.

I don't think I said you did, did I?

Originally Posted by smc

Nor did I accuse Mel Asher of being a racist. Read my post again. I discussed the perception he reported. I did not assume it was his view, and I did not ascribe anything to him personally.

My apologies. When you said "This is a racist view" I thought you meant Mel Asher's interpretation of what was going on in the UK was Mel's racist view.

He wrote:

Originally Posted by Mel Asher

The general perception in the United Kingdom with its unchecked European, Indian and African immigration of the past eight years is that crime syndicates, particularly from Eastern Europe, Nigeria and the horn of Africa, have prospered and expanded their spheres of operation, particularly in the child sex-trade.
Governments, almost without exception, will invariably deny that there is a problem, but it is the police and general public who have to bear the brunt of political incompetence and laxity.

It would be interesting to have figures to show if rises in levels of immigration across Western Europe, and North America have occurred in the past ten years, and if so, what the percentages are. Prison figures might also show a correspondence, if one exists.

So, what specifically is the racist view? UK's perception that crime syndicates from Eastern Europe, Nigeria, and the horn of Africa is actually racism and no such crime syndicates exist? I still don't see how racism is the most likely thing going on here. Or maybe it's just really late and I'm confused.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

So, what specifically is the racist view? UK's perception that crime syndicates from Eastern Europe, Nigeria, and the horn of Africa is actually racism and no such crime syndicates exist? I still don't see how racism is the most likely thing going on here. Or maybe it's just really late and I'm confused.

Mel's post is pretty clear. He is not reporting that people in the UK are simply aware that their are crime syndicates of immigrants from Eastern Europe, Nigeria, and the Horn of Africa. That almost goes without saying. The crux of his post is that in the UK there is a perception that there is a link between being from these places (or, in the context of our discussion in this thread, a link between being of these "races") and being engaged in criminal behavior. Hence my response.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by smc

Mel's post is pretty clear. He is not reporting that people in the UK are simply aware that their are crime syndicates of immigrants from Eastern Europe, Nigeria, and the Horn of Africa. That almost goes without saying. The crux of his post is that in the UK there is a perception that there is a link between being from these places (or, in the context of our discussion in this thread, a link between being of these "races") and being engaged in criminal behavior. Hence my response.

Ok, let's analyze....

Originally Posted by Mel Asher

The general perception in the United Kingdom with its unchecked European, Indian and African immigration of the past eight years is that crime syndicates, particularly from Eastern Europe, Nigeria and the horn of Africa, have prospered and expanded their spheres of operation, particularly in the child sex-trade. Governments, almost without exception, will invariably deny that there is a problem, but it is the police and general public who have to bear the brunt of political incompetence and laxity.

It would be interesting to have figures to show if rises in levels of immigration across Western Europe, and North America have occurred in the past ten years, and if so, what the percentages are. Prison figures might also show a correspondence, if one exists.

The part in red is the part you say he is not reporting. The part in blue is what Mel Asher wants to see, and you've already said that you were not attributing racism to Mel's beliefs. So that leaves the part in black, which states that governments deny there's a problem. No racism there. But then also states that police and the general public have to bear the brunt of political incompetence and laxity. Is that what lead to you saying

Originally Posted by smc

This is a racist view, pure and simple, painting with a broad brush immigrants as generally linked to crime syndicates. Racism, racism, racism.

This is what you claim is the crux of his post, which is that in the UK there is a perception that there is a link between being from these places (or, in the context of our discussion in this thread, a link between being of these "races") and being engaged in criminal behavior. The interesting part here is the part that leads you to cry racism is the part being in the context of this forum. How can attitudes in the UK be shown by the context of this thread to be racist? The only part of Mel's post that is in the context of this thread are his personal observations cited in his posting.

"it is the police and general public who have to bear the brunt of political incompetence and laxity"
=
"a perception that there is a link between being from these places (or, in the context of our discussion in this thread, a link between being of these "races") and being engaged in criminal behavior"

Originally Posted by smc

I think this post requires some explanation, Tracy.

Please define "culture" as you mean it here.

Culture: the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life} shared by people in a place or time.

Originally Posted by smc

Please clarify your point about Jews and Hezbollah. And I would advise strongly that you make a distinction between "Jews" and "Israelis" or, more accurately, "Zionists." Not all Jews are Zionists.

Like I said it was late. Like after 2am and I really just wanted to get on with downloading porn. Yes, I should have said Israelis, as they are the ones who are being littered with rockets. I would like to further specify which street adresses are most prone to bombing but that would further divert me from my daily dose of porn. I wouldn't use the term "Zionists" because not all Zionists live in Israel and are bombed by rockets.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

The part in red is the part you say he is not reporting.

Read carefully what I said he was "not reporting" again, and fully, and in the context of the subsequent sentence(s). I simply do not have the mental energy to continue our discussion until you become a more careful reader, so I don't have to keep writing over and over again to explain what I did not write but that you insist on attributing to me. Or perhaps you are a master sophist (you can look that up), in which case our discussion truly has nowhere to go.