Baseball

[smc]

The big news in the baseball world is Mark McGwire's admission that he used steroids, including in 1998 when he broke the MLB single-season home run record.

Anyone with a functioning brain and functioning eyes and even the most cursory knowledge of what steroids can do to a man's physiology already knew that McGwire was a user.

McGwire is doing an interview tonight with Bob Costas to discuss his admission. It will be broadcast on MLB Network at 7 p.m. ET and simulcast at MLB.com.

I hear Barry Bonds is planning to have his head shrunk and then do a similar interview in which he will obfuscate about every steroids-related question. (Okay, I made that last part up.)

[shadows]

It is good that he finally admitted what we all knew. Anyone that thought he was clean should take their head out of the sand and look around. It was not called the "Steroid Era" for nothing. We would be knocked off our feet if we ever found out the real amount of users during that "era".

Barry Bonds? He is a jackass, as is Clemens. They are not fooling anyone! The reason I dislike the two of them, and don't mind McGuire is the fact that Big Mac at least treated the fans like people and not minor annoyances(when they played).

I agree with the big-head syndrome of Bonds. Looking at video/pictures of him from his Pittsburgh days to the same from his San Francisco days is like looking at night and day! Totally different! His head got a least 3x bigger! He used to be a contact hitter who would steal a lot of bases and hit a few home runs. Then he magically became a power hitter that could hit 77 home runs? Sorry, but that record is one that actually deserves an asterisk beside it.

[smc]

Originally Posted by shadows

It is good that he finally admitted what we all knew. Anyone that thought he was clean should take their head out of the sand and look around. It was not called the "Steroid Era" for nothing. We would be knocked off our feet if we ever found out the real amount of users during that "era".

Barry Bonds? He is a jackass, as is Clemens. They are not fooling anyone! The reason I dislike the two of them, and don't mind McGuire is the fact that Big Mac at least treated the fans like people and not minor annoyances(when they played).

I agree with the big-head syndrome of Bonds. Looking at video/pictures of him from his Pittsburgh days to the same from his San Francisco days is like looking at night and day! Totally different! His head got a least 3x bigger! He used to be a contact hitter who would steal a lot of bases and hit a few home runs. Then he magically became a power hitter that could hit 77 home runs? Sorry, but that record is one that actually deserves an asterisk beside it.

I'm watching the Mark McGwire interview right now on MLB Network and I must admit that as much as I despise steroid use and how it has affected baseball, I feel a bit of sympathy for him. Never for Bonds or Clemens!

[shadows]

Originally Posted by smc

I'm watching the Mark McGwire interview right now on MLB Network and I must admit that as much as I despise steroid use and how it has affected baseball, I feel a bit of sympathy for him. Never for Bonds or Clemens!

I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who feels that way. Thanks!

[dauls]

I left this 'off-topic' post on the hockey thread about a month ago...

Originally Posted by dauls

I'm surprised Mark McGwire gets less flak than Barry Bonds. McGwire refused to discuss the issue at the Congressional hearing, repeating "I'm not here to discuss the past," and "I will be considered guilty no matter what I say."

At least this speculation does seem to be having an affect on McGwire's election to the Hall of Fame, his percentage at the ballot fell below 25% in 2009.

After he broke the home run record in 1998, I remember reading a story which mentioned his taking steroids (in a UK paper, I remember it because baseball stories are so rare in our papers, the comments may have evolved from the US media).
I couldn't believe it was out there and he could still play. Then I found out that baseball didn't have a drug testing policy, amazing when you think they've been testing NFL players, track & field athletes and cyclists for over 20 years.

Unfortunately I never kept that newspaper clipping.
The baseball show on British TV only picked on Bonds and a few others, but not McGwire.
And I never read anything else about McGwire and steroids, even though he looked like 'Arnie's big brother' at the end of his career.

So I begun to think that maybe that newspaper article was a figment of my imagination. Thanks for posting this, at least I now know I'm not totally mad.

OK McGwire may have presented himself as a nicer person than Bonds, but the bottom line is he was a drugs cheat. He was a role model to thousands of kids, but he was another one of the potential catalysts for them to be 'juiced' by unscrupulous coaches. Coaches who saw great potential in a youngster, but knew steroids could be used to make the difference and help the youngster stand out from the others.

Drugs need to be kept out of sport for the sake of the under 18s. Once you are an adult you can do what you want to yourself, and if you get caught, accept your punishment and shut the fck up.

As you've probably guessed by now, I have no sympathy for McGwire. I put him in the same group as Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod, Clemens, Jos? Canseco, etc. You're either clean or a cheat.

It'd be nice if we could go back to the good old days, with Roger Maris' 61 and Hank Aaron's 755 as the home run records. Shame we can't.

It's also a shame that Ken Griffey Jr. has missed so much of is career through injury, and he won't be able to stop cheating A-Rod from setting the career home run record. Hopefully Albert Pujols can carry on for long enough to catch A-Rod and pass him.

[shadows]

It is nice to read an opposing point of view(regarding McGuire, as I agree that drugs in sports are crap). I don't know how I missed your original post, so I'm glad that you posted it again.

Speaking of Sosa, besides the stigma of being a steroid user, he is now being labelled as a "Michael Jackson Wannabe" as he had a picture taken of him recently where he looked very pale(I think I saw it at espn.com). Some people were accusing him of tying to get rid of his Latino traits and trying to become caucasian. I am not sure how true this story is since all I saw was that one article about it. Did you hear about this at all, dauls?

[dauls]

Originally Posted by shadows

It is nice to read an opposing point of view(regarding McGuire, as I agree that drugs in sports are crap). I don't know how I missed your original post, so I'm glad that you posted it again.

Speaking of Sosa, besides the stigma of being a steroid user, he is now being labelled as a "Michael Jackson Wannabe" as he had a picture taken of him recently where he looked very pale(I think I saw it at espn.com). Some people were accusing him of tying to get rid of his Latino traits and trying to become caucasian. I am not sure how true this story is since all I saw was that one article about it. Did you hear about this at all, dauls?

No. That Sammy Sosa story is a new one to me. Apart from the steroid links I haven't heard a thing about him since he last played in 2007.

Sosa also briefly played alongside another member of the 500 HR Club who posted a positive test for steroids: Rafael Palmeiro.

[shadows]

Interesting blogs, Tal. You are quite the Phillie fan, it looks like.

[smc]

Originally Posted by dauls

OK McGwire may have presented himself as a nicer person than Bonds, but the bottom line is he was a drugs cheat. He was a role model to thousands of kids, but he was another one of the potential catalysts for them to be 'juiced' by unscrupulous coaches. Coaches who saw great potential in a youngster, but knew steroids could be used to make the difference and help the youngster stand out from the others.

Drugs need to be kept out of sport for the sake of the under 18s. Once you are an adult you can do what you want to yourself, and if you get caught, accept your punishment and shut the fck up.

As you've probably guessed by now, I have no sympathy for McGwire. I put him in the same group as Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod, Clemens, Jos? Canseco, etc. You're either clean or a cheat.

... Hopefully Albert Pujols can carry on for long enough to catch A-Rod and pass him.

After reading dauls' post, I feel I must clarify my earlier post about watching the McGwire interview. I wrote my initial impressions.

I want to make a few points.

1. Performance-enhancing drugs have no place whatsoever in sport. Their use is cheating, and -- as dauls points out -- dangerous for kids.

2. Right or wrong, none of these drugs were specifically banned in baseball at the time the so-called "steroid era" began.

3. I believe Mark McGwire and people like Andy Pettite when they say that they took these drugs to help recover from injuries. This was not the case for people like Bonds or Clemens or A-Rod. This does not eliminate point #1, above.

4. I think all the records set during the steroid era should at least have an asterisk (*) that indicates they are suspect.

5. Mark McGwire failed in his interview to state unequivocally that his steroids, taken for injuries, essentially increased his batting power (if not his "god-given skill" of hand-to-eye coordination or his bat speed, which is a function of swinging skill more than strength). He hinted that he would have hit just as many home runs without steroids. Whether that is or not, his failure to own up to even the possibility greatly diminishes his "confession."

There is a lot more I could write, but I will leave it at that, except to reiterate that steroids and HGH are wrong for baseball: they are dangerous, and they represent cheating. On that there can be no equivocation.

[shadows]

Here is another chapter to that story. Jose Canseco(who basically got the whole ball rolling with his book 'Juiced', says that McGuire and La Russa are not telling the whole truth. Here is the article from tsn.ca.

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CANSECO SAYS MCGWIRE, LA RUSSA NOT TELLING THE TRUTH

A day after Mark McGwire admitted to using steroids, one former teammate believes that McGwire hasn't told the entire truth.

Former 'Bash Brother' Jose Canseco, whose 2005 book 'Juiced' opened up the culture of steriods at the time, was not to pleased with some things that McGwire said on Monday, specifically when McGwire said that he and Canseco never talked about steroids, let alone injected each other, which Canseco claimed in the book.

"I've got no problems with a few of the things he's saying, but again, it's ironic and strange that Mark McGwire denies that I injected him with steroids. He's calling me a liar again," Canseco said on ESPN 1000 radio. "I've defended Mark, I've said a lot of good things about him, but I can't believe he just called me a liar.

"There is something very strange going on here, and I'm wondering what it is. I even polygraphed that subject matter, that I injected him, and passed it completely. So I want to challenge him on national TV to a polygraph examination. I want to see him call me a liar under a polygraph examination."

Canseco also took a shot at current St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, who managed McGwire in St. Louis and both McGwire and Canseco in Oakland, for his public statement that he didn't know that McGwire had used steroids until McGwire called him early on Monday.

"That's a blatant lie," Canseco said. "Tony La Russa was quoted as saying that I was using steroids back then, and I was talking about it in the clubhouse, openly. That's a blatant lie.

"There are some things here that are so ridiculous, and so disrespectful for the public and the media to believe. I just can't believe it. I'm in total shock. These guys remind me of politicians that go up and just lie to the public and expect to get elected."

Canseco, who told ESPN that he is still a big fan of McGwire, is tired of defending what he wrote in 'Juiced.'

"I'm tired of justifying what I've said," Canseco said. "I've polygraphed, I've proven that I'm 100 percent accurate. I never exaggerated. I told it the way it actually happened. I'm the only one who has told it the way it actually happened. Major League Baseball is still trying to defend itself. It's strange. All I have is the truth, and I've proven that."