Global warming???

[violet lightning]

Originally Posted by randolph

There is plenty of real data out there for anybody to look at if they are interested in more than spouting uninformed opinions.

130 years, (the amount of time man has been keeping meteorlogical/climate data- and the timespan on the 3 graphs you show) is virtually a speck in the geological and climactic history of the Earth.
They have taken ice core samples I believe, that go further back, but I don't have that data.

LIke others have said, I do believe man certainly can and does have an effect on our environment. (extinction of species, nuclear waste, deforestation, etc), but I'm not sure about "planetary effects".
Far better it seems, is to focus back on pollution, deforestation, (which can cause climate change) and resource management. Things we do know are happening, have a definite cause and which are detrimental to man and the environment.

:D Also, I know nuclear winter is from a nuclear exchange. I used the term as a comparison with volcanos, as I have heard several scientist do. The similarities are the amount of debris and smoke they both toss up into the upper atmosphere, resulting in a loss of sunlight and cooling temperatures.

Good discussion and many good points on all sides.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by violet lightning

130 years, (the amount of time man has been keeping meteorlogical data- and the timespan on the 3 graphs you show) is virtually a speck in the geological and climactic history of the Earth. I would think you would know that, being so informed.
They have taken ice core samples I believe, that go further back, but you don't have that data.

I have heard that the earth is self-regulating, and that when the sun warms up (sun cycles, etc), the earth can cool itself. One of these results (a weather expert said) in releasing carbon dioxide from the oceans, which is a fairly simple and understood cause/effect relationship.
Makes sense to me.

The three graphs posted were simply examples of data available to anyone who wants to see for themselves what is going on climatically.

Sorry, you second paragraph makes no sense to me.

[Tread]

Originally Posted by violet lightning

An interesting aspect to consider is the reign of the dinosaurs during the Triassic, Jurasic and Cretaceous periods, which lasted for millions of years. (mankind has been in existence for a fraction of that) They existed in great numbers and presumably put out alot of gasses. (remember the cow flatulence theory for GW?)
The earth was warmer then, and things like volcanos, comet impacts and massive, unchecked forest and grass fires filled the atmosphere with all kinds of gasses, smoke and debris. They survived for millions of years before they went extinct. (I still think nature dwarfs man.)

Yes the earth was warmer then, but mankind creates the atmosphere of then and let less woods grow. At a single spot nature dwarf's man, but global it's not the case.

Originally Posted by violet lightning

LIke others have said, I do believe man certainly can and does have an effect on our environment. (extinction of species, nuclear waste, deforestation, etc), but I'm not sure about "planetary effects".

The biggest extinction of species after the mass mortality at the end of Cretaceous. I think this, the massive dispersion of foreign species at places they don't belong, farming, animal husbandry are a global effects. The planet earth will be there until the sun absorb it. Not sure what you mean by "planetary effects", but climate is part of the of our environment.

Originally Posted by violet lightning

The planet, (Gaia?) is massive and complex, and I think its been around and doing fine for billions of years before man, and if we really pose a threat, it'll shake us off like little parasites. (so I do think we need to be good "tenants"!)

That is right, nature don't need us, but we need nature. Such massive and complex system can't do it in a few years, but even in this short time reactions are visible. The question is how much is mankind the cause. And as Randolph said:

Originally Posted by randolph

So unless we know what we are doing, the safest thing to do is cut back on burning oil and coal. Its not going to last forever anyway.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Perhaps it is like in some of the Sci-Fi literature. Maybe our planet, and I use the term "our" loosely, is sentinent to an extent. Maybe someday, if she feels threatened by us humans, she will just shrug us off, so to speak. Tsunamis, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions galore!

Yup, maybe "the music of the spheres" is various celestial bodies complaining about what those damn fleas are up to now.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

Perhaps it is like in some of the Sci-Fi literature. Maybe our planet, and I use the term "our" loosely, is sentinent to an extent. Maybe someday, if she feels threatened by us humans, she will just shrug us off, so to speak. Tsunamis, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions galore!

Yup, maybe "the music of the spheres" is various celestial bodies complaining about what those damn fleas are up to now.

Hey babe, it's already happening. fires, floods, earthquakes, tsunami's, record breaking cold weather, a massive early storm in California.
What we have been doing is poking mother nature with sticks and she is getting fed up.

[Mel Asher]

I can't say I'm impressed by any of the Pro-Gobal-warming brigade.

Much has already been said in this thread debunking the so-called ' evidence '

• Volcanic Activity
  One eruption produces massive amounts of CO2 and SO2 gases together with miscellaneous complex gaseous and residual hydrocarbons
• Pathetically short periods of recorded climatological data

Whe the major planetary cycles can be as long as 1500 years ( ask the Mayas )

1. CO2 ? Try SO2 for a real Planet-killer !

Anybody fancy living on an ageing version of Venus ?

Yes. Pollution by excess production of Chemicals ( atmospheric or otherwise ) IS a Planet-killer in the Long Term, maybe even in a geologically-short time-span. So is Over-population, Over-grazing. Soil-nutrient Depletion,
Man-made Soil Erosion, Over-harvesting - the list of mankind's follies goes on and on.

But for my two main Horses of the Apocalypse I would choose Over-population and Greed ( with its ever-attendant Wars )

No. our only hope is to be invaded by superior benevolent beings from another Galaxy ( Ours won't do as we'll have infested is with population by then )

Meanwhile, let's all have non-productive Sex and wait for the invasion. . . .

[Jenae LaTorque]

Originally Posted by Mel Asher

INo. our only hope is to be invaded by superior benevolent beings from another Galaxy ( Ours won't do as we'll have infested is with population by then )

Meanwhile, let's all have non-productive Sex and wait for the invasion. . . .

No use waiting for rescue - Prime Directive remember? The Galactic council already have obtained enough people, animals, plants, etc for seed stock on a new planet and most likely won't bother obtaining any more, so that hope is out also. It's pretty much up to us to get ourselves out of any jam we get into.
As far as the global warming issue goes; I think there are a lot of coastal areas that need a good wash anyway.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Randolph! So maybe you had best heed those warnings ( omens, portents, signs, etc) and get the hell out of Kookyfornia before it slides into the Pacific.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

Randolph! So maybe you had best heed those warnings ( omens, portents, signs, etc) and get the hell out of Kookyfornia before it slides into the Pacific.

No way! I am expecting to have waterfront property!