Would you ever suck off a guy?

[someguy2]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

Snip

I really tried to read all of that, but it's too long. You've overly analyzing everything I say. I'm just gonna make some small statements. You can debate them if you want, but they are just what I feel.

- I like cock, more than pussy. It's not contradictory when you think about it. I like female ass, but not a guy's ass. I just find pussy a bit boring, but it's still nice from time to time. When I watch tranny porn, I see them as women, even though I know logically they are not.

- When trannies have everything real women do like a vagina, boobs, be able to give birth etc etc, then I will consider them real girls. Until then, they can only be good imitations at best. I'm sorry if some trannies can't handle that, but I am a man of science, and when I compare trannies to real girls, I don't get a match.

I don't know what else to say here, I've stated my positions on things already.

[fatbloke]

Originally Posted by someguy2

I really tried to read all of that, but it's too long. You've overly analyzing everything I say. I'm just gonna make some small statements. You can debate them if you want, but they are just what I feel.

- I like cock, more than pussy. It's not contradictory when you think about it. I like female ass, but not a guy's ass. I just find pussy a bit boring, but it's still nice from time to time. When I watch tranny porn, I see them as women, even though I know logically they are not.

- When trannies have everything real women do like a vagina, boobs, be able to give birth etc etc, then I will consider them real girls. Until then, they can only be good imitations at best. I'm sorry if some trannies can't handle that, but I am a man of science, and when I compare trannies to real girls, I don't get a match.

I don't know what else to say here, I've stated my positions on things already.

Don't worry Someguy2,one thing i have noticed on this site is that some people do try to over analyze things sometimes,read way too much into what has been written,it just seems to be the way of things,but keep posting,debate is good for the soul

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by someguy2

I really tried to read all of that, but it's too long. You've overly analyzing everything I say. I'm just gonna make some small statements. You can debate them if you want, but they are just what I feel.

- I like cock, more than pussy. It's not contradictory when you think about it. I like female ass, but not a guy's ass. I just find pussy a bit boring, but it's still nice from time to time. When I watch tranny porn, I see them as women, even though I know logically they are not.

- When trannies have everything real women do like a vagina, boobs, be able to give birth etc etc, then I will consider them real girls. Until then, they can only be good imitations at best. I'm sorry if some trannies can't handle that, but I am a man of science, and when I compare trannies to real girls, I don't get a match.

I don't know what else to say here, I've stated my positions on things already.

Point 1) "I see them as women"

Point 2) "They are imitations (of women) at best"

This pumpkin is a dangerous mental gymnastic you are playing around with. They are women while the sex act is being performed... then lying liars when you are done. They are "disgusting" "weird" (your words) gay men who just poked you in the ass. You can't bring yourself to talk to them much less kiss one.

I'm not getting into biology, identity, cultural constructs with you because if you can't follow Creative Mind's post you won't get it anyway. I will say one thing. You share the thoughts almost word for word with the guy who sexually assaulted me (raped me) and then sent me to the hospital because he couldn't handle what just happened and used my face against a wall for a few minutes. Check how this stuff comes together for you if you ever do meet a "tranny" because there will be a before a during and an after.

[someguy2]

I'm not debating someone who not only misrepresents my positions, but also makes some of my positions up.

As for Creative's post, it was poorly formatted and a wall of text. If he wanted a response, he should have made it easier to read, and shorter.

At the end of the day you are trying to debate how I feel about trannies, and why I am, and am not attracted to them. It's pretty ridiculous.

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by someguy2

I'm not debating someone who not only misrepresents my positions, but also makes some of my positions up.

As for Creative's post, it was poorly formatted and a wall of text. If he wanted a response, he should have made it easier to read, and shorter.

At the end of the day you are trying to debate how I feel about trannies, and why I am, and am not attracted to them. It's pretty ridiculous.

What has been misrepresented and what has been made up?

Whatever - about Creative Mind's post. It looks like he went to some trouble to read what you had to say.

At the end of the day don't give a damn WHY you are attracted to Trans*women or what you particularly want to do with one. I'm pointing out that your "real women" comments imply that I and other trans*women are simply fake, fraudulent, deceptive, liars, counterfeit simulations of "real" women. Thus in your mind we are simply men who grew some tits - not a totally incorrect statement.

Couple this with your rather open "disgust" (your word) with the idea of and expression of intimacy between gay men makes me wonder what would happen if you did actually get your butt-sex with a tranny.

I'm not even getting into the actual analysis of your posts and the use of "I'm not PC" as some sort of excuse not to listen to or think about what someone is telling you.

Perhaps a little clarification can help. Why do you think people transition from male to female?

[someguy2]

I'm not debating with you, but I will answer some of your questions. I'm really tired of this topic now.

If I had butt sex with a tranny, I'd thank the tranny, and treat them as I would a woman because that's what they really want. I wouldn't treat them as a girlfriend, but I would treat them like I do other women.

I'm not sure I'd really want to have sex with a tranny anyway. When I'm watching the trannies, I am looking at them as women. In reality, I know they're not the same, so I doubt I could ever have sex with one.

The women I see on my PC, and the women I jack off about don't exist in reality. I use trannies as a way of fulfilling my desires of a real woman with a cock.

When it comes to what I think of trannies. Well I think they are just confused people, or formerly confused people, trying to make their own way in this World just like everyone else.

If the term real girls bothers you so much, I'll stop using it after this post.

[Phenom99]

Originally Posted by Bionca

What has been misrepresented and what has been made up?

Whatever - about Creative Mind's post. It looks like he went to some trouble to read what you had to say.

At the end of the day don't give a damn WHY you are attracted to Trans*women or what you particularly want to do with one. I'm pointing out that your "real women" comments imply that I and other trans*women are simply fake, fraudulent, deceptive, liars, counterfeit simulations of "real" women. Thus in your mind we are simply men who grew some tits - not a totally incorrect statement.

Couple this with your rather open "disgust" (your word) with the idea of and expression of intimacy between gay men makes me wonder what would happen if you did actually get your butt-sex with a tranny.

I'm not even getting into the actual analysis of your posts and the use of "I'm not PC" as some sort of excuse not to listen to or think about what someone is telling you.

Perhaps a little clarification can help. Why do you think people transition from male to female?

Ah, gender definitions.

I've seen that the facilitation of intimacy is based on much more than an assigned "gender". it's about your relationship with that person, about how you and that person's goals and attractions mesh. Whether they are a woman or a man or anything "in between" (referring to the so-called "fake" category of genders being discussed), it's not about that. it's about feelings. I agree with Bionca, in that the alleged "authenticity" of the gender is not what truly matters, but rather what that person emotionally and physically means to you.

I just finished writing a paper about social gender identity. I've really started to do alot of school work with sexuality since i realized that i was both attracted to tgirls and bisexual. lol

[GRH]

Interesting point Phenom, and I agree wholeheartedly. I have to say, I wouldn't limit myself to any one sex/gender. But historically, I've been attracted to women. I'm also attracted to other TG/TS to some extent. And to a limited extent I like men...

But let me expound. With women, I feel I connect emotionally, spiritually, sexually, intimately, and on issues of import. I suspect (I'm hypothesizing) that it would be similar if I were in a relationship with a TG/TS. But with a man...It gets more complicated. With a man, I feel that we might share some similar ambitions or goals, and I have no doubt that I could connect on certain sexual levels. But I don't know if I could ever connect intimately or emotionally the way I do with women, and that is why I feel like it would be weird to kiss a guy, because for me, kissing is a matter of intimacy and not sexual.

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by someguy2

As for Creative's post, it was poorly formatted and a wall of text. If he wanted a response, he should have made it easier to read, and shorter.

Actually, I'll accept that criticism, no problem. I SHOULD have split such a long post into different parts, since I was addressing different things. So, I apologize. However, since you mentioned that you didn't read all of my post...you quit early on...I'd simply like to repeat what I said at the end (since it was the important part). And I don't think this should be too long or hard to digest...

Flat out, Bionica took offense to your statement: "I don't consider trannies to be real girls. As long as they look like real girls, that's enough for me." You later added: "I don't consider them real girls, because they are not. They can be very good imitations, but that's about as far as it can go."

In the TS community, that's the equivalent of slapping them across the face since they DO consider themselves to be female and WANT that side to be recognized and accepted by the world. So saying she's not a "real girl" or is just an "imitation" and THEN taking it the distance by saying "Hey, so long as you LOOK like a girl, that'll do" -- as if slapping on lipstick and stockings is all that it takes for Bionca to define herself -- demeans her feelings, if not her entire sense of self-being and self-worth. Saying it only matters that she LOOKS the part discredits what Bionca actually FEELS about her own identity.

So, if you're only looking to get off on the porn side of things, that's cool. If looking at pictures of a sexy, rock hard, ultra passable TS makes you want to jerk off in private, that's fine. There's more than enough guys who feel the same. Hell, there's obviously a ton of guys who feel that way, which is why TS porn has exploded in recent years.

On the other hand, some friendly advice. Try to remember that much like Jenna Jameson or a porn star isn't indicative of the average woman you'll meet in life, the same is true for TS porn. Is it fun jerking off to superstars like Areeya or Amy? Sure. But the transgendered community is about REAL flesh and blood people with REAL feelings, and they have more than enough problems fighting for even simple acceptance. And that's why blunt terms like "not real women" or "imitation" or "so long as you look good that's ALL that matters" isn't going to make them very happy. Whether you want to believe this or not, they are women inside and consider themselves to be, so they're just looking for a little bit of respect.

Which I don't think should be hard for any of us to give as fellow human beings.

[franalexes]

I'll be brief. I usually am. My dear friend, Bionca, has posted and reposted to great length to make her point. Sadly it hasn't seemed to 'register" or affected anyone's viewpoint, even though she is correct. I am a bit older than Bionca and I have thus far not responded here. That comes from a piece of wisdom I learned some time ago.
" Never argue with a drunk or a damn fool."

[smc]

"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." -- John Lennon

"I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal." -- Groucho Marx

For me, it's simple. In world where most of are just trying to get by, get along, and find a tiny bit of warmth and happiness, it's up to each individual to define what is "real" for her or him. That's why Bionca, Fran, and anyone else is as real a girl as any other girl.

Who in the hell is any one of us to argue with them about that??!!