Who gets high?

[GRH]

I'm just curious how many others among you like to partake in mind-altering substances? I will refrain from posting just all that I have dappled with, but assume that the list is long.

[marlowe]

no I don't partake in mind-altering substances unless you're including alcohol, but I don't take that in mind-altering quantities, infact I don't like to be drunk.
I have dabbled with various drugs in the past and from about 16 to 20 I used to get stoned (dope) almost every day and really enjoyed it. Infact about 20 I realised I had hardly ever had sex without being stoned! It wasn't a big conscious decision to stop, it just wasn't doing much for me anymore. I don't think I have an addictive personality. Now I find that the world around and 'reality' is a fairly mind-altering experience.

[Bionca]

Very VERY rarely .. I used to do and I have tried many things, but it just doesn't happen so much these days. Guess I becoming a dull spinster

I dont take any illegal drugs or substances, don't see the point. Expensive, fucks you up mentally (and physically sometimes) and can have big effects further down the line in life. Same can be said about alcohol, which I do drink, but I only really drink in moderation.

[Mad_Bad!!]

Never done drugs, and hopefullynever will.
As for alcohol... well, that's another story lol. In fact, I like drinking very much, but I don't like getting drunk, so I always know where to stop.

[belfagar]

People that think alcohol is not a drug, I laugh. I have been up and down so many times with so many things. Things in life can make a weak person even weaker. Alcohol has been the worst drug ive been addicted to. Benzodiazapienes come in second, Like booze hard to stop without pain.
Ive tried several tryptamines and a few phenethylamines enjoyed em all.
Ive Tried and used various types of speed (a Phenethylamine). They have been useful. got me thru some tough times.

Ive stopped all that, But Still smoke the reefer.
I love mary almost as much as Barbie Woods.

[Rafaely]

I used to smoke weed all the time but the novelty wore off so don't bother with it anymore.

Personally I don't have a problem with it, but theres lots of people that have given it a bad name and it still fells like alot of people frown upon it. Alcohol is far more dangerous as your never yourself when you're plastered.

I FUCKING LOVE SMOKING THE GREATEST PLANT THE GOD GAVE US i love you maryjane

[SluttyShemaleAnna]

I love booze and I love weed!

[GRH]

Thank heavens! At least I don't feel like the only one anymore. I love psychadelics as well, but have been far too long without any.

[SluttyShemaleAnna]

Won't you sing along with me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFNAdnHc_uU

Hits from the bong
Hits from the bong
Hits from the bong
Hits from the bong

Pick it
Pack it
Fire it up, come along
And take a hit from the bong
Put the blunt down
Just for a second
Don't get me wrong
It's not a new method
Inhale
Exhale
Just got an ounce in the mail
I like a blunt or a big fat cone
But my double-barrel bong
Is gettin' me stoned
I'm skill it
There's water inside don't spill it
It smells like shit on the carpet
Still it
Goes down smooth when I get a clean hit
Of the skunky, phunky, smelly green shit
Sing my song
Puff all night long
As I take hits from the bong
Hits from the bong y'all

Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?
Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?

Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?
Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?

Let's smoke that bowl
Hit the bong
And then take that finger off of that hole
Plug it
Unplug it
Don't strain
I love you Mary Jane
She never complains
When I hit Mary
With that flame
I light up the cherry
She's so good to me
When I pack a fresh bowl I clean the screen
Don't get me stirred up
The smoke, through the bubbling water
Is makin' it pure so I got ta
Take my hit and hold it
Just like Chong
I get the bowl and I reload it
Get my four-footer and bring it on
As I take hits from the bong

Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?
Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?

Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?
Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?

Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?
Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?

Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?

[GRH]

Unfortunately, for my drug history, we'd have to invent songs that haven't even been sung yet. The list would include:

Alcohol: I'm sure there's numerous getting drunk songs on the market
Marijuana: Again, consult a variety of hippie songs
Cocaine: Grateful Dead, "Casey Jones"
Heroin/Various Narcs: The Wall, "Comfortably Numb"
Amphetamines: Not sure what comes to mind
LSD: The Beatles, "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds"
Ketamine: My best guess would be Marilyn Manson, "Dissociative"
Mescaline: I'm clueless...???
DMT: See above...???
Salvia: See above...???
Ecstasy: I'm sure some rave song has been written that I'm not aware of...
Ether: See above...???
5-MeO-DMT: See above...???
Datura: See above...??? The closest I can think of is literary reference...
Tiletamine: Veterinary drugs don't have many songs...
Benzos, Piperazines, GHB, and many others: Yeah, I doubt any songs have been written about these lesser drugs...

God, putting it like that...I'm such a junkie...

[SluttyShemaleAnna]

omg, ether! that's so 1800's.

I've huffed a lot of that shit by accident in labs, its good stuff, lol.

I bet junkies would pay good money to stand next to the sinks in our undergraduate labs, our handling of many psychoactive chemicals is very sub standard....

[GRH]

Originally Posted by SluttyShemaleAnna

omg, ether! that's so 1800's.

I've huffed a lot of that shit by accident in labs, its good stuff, lol.

I bet junkies would pay good money to stand next to the sinks in our undergraduate labs, our handling of many psychoactive chemicals is very sub standard....

Yes, chemistry labs are fun! I stole a lot of chemicals and supplies from labs over the years...Back when I was hoping to have my own means of clandestine synthesis. I've pretty much given up on that sh*t, but I still wouldn't mind trying/synthesizing PCP at some point. I spent many a hours messed up on diethyl ether back in the day...I found that smoking pot before hand made it INCREDIBLY trippy, on par with some psychadelics, albeit for a short amount of time. I found that the film "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" sort of mischaracterized ether's effect...Alas, it's hard to portray some drugs on film...All in all, the film did a very good job.

[Rafaely]

Originally Posted by GRH

Thank heavens! At least I don't feel like the only one anymore. I love psychadelics as well, but have been far too long without any.

Same as, never tried acid, but every mushroom trip ive had had been awesome. Can't recommend them enough.

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by GRH

Datura: See above...??? The closest I can think of is literary reference...

Datura! That's a blast from the past. Reminds me of when a group of us came across a Datura plant and set about making some tea. Well I don't remember anyone getting a transcendental high, infact I think most of us ended up being quite sick. Either our botanic knowledge wasn't as good as we thought or we didn't brew the tea right. Anyway, that was that for Datura.

[sesame]

Originally Posted by GRH

Unfortunately, for my drug history, we'd have to invent songs that haven't even been sung yet. The list would include:

Alcohol: I'm sure there's numerous getting drunk songs on the market
Marijuana: Again, consult a variety of hippie songs
Cocaine: Grateful Dead, "Casey Jones"
Heroin/Various Narcs: The Wall, "Comfortably Numb"
Amphetamines: Not sure what comes to mind
LSD: The Beatles, "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds"
Ketamine: My best guess would be Marilyn Manson, "Dissociative"
Mescaline: I'm clueless...???
DMT: See above...???
Salvia: See above...???
Ecstasy: I'm sure some rave song has been written that I'm not aware of...
Ether: See above...???
5-MeO-DMT: See above...???
Datura: See above...??? The closest I can think of is literary reference...
Tiletamine: Veterinary drugs don't have many songs...
Benzos, Piperazines, GHB, and many others: Yeah, I doubt any songs have been written about these lesser drugs...

God, putting it like that...I'm such a junkie...

Blimey!
GRH, you are an Amazing person! You are an encyclopedia of drugs!
Ok, let's take advantage of your extensive knowledge... Please tell us the special feeling (mental, physical or even trancendental that you experienced with the intake of each drug. How are they different from one another? Also, mention if the hangovers are of the same kind.
Please please please....

[GRH]

No problem Sesame, I'd LOVE to, that said, I could probably write a book on the topic of drugs and my own personal history. So if you could simplify your inquiry a bit, I'd be more than willing to accomadate. I guess in saying that, is there any place you'd like to start the discussion/comparison? To simply ask me to describe them all is a bit overwhelming...I don't mind doing it, but a bit of direction regarding what to cover first would be appreciated. :O It's refreshing to see someone who appreciates a girl with a bit of knowledge regarding altered states.

[sesame]

Ok, GRH,
You could begin by describing the Altered States.:D
Is it something like a Dream state?

[GRH]

Sesame, I'm not sure what parallel to draw??? I've dreamt many of times, and I've been altered many times...

That said, there are obvious parallels between the two. At my current state of consciousness, I can't always tell the difference. Let me explain...

I have always dreamed lucidly...My ability to differentiate the dream state from waking is something that seems to be a gift to me. In almost all of my dreams, I am aware on some level of the fact that I am dreaming. That said, I have had profound dreams...I have experienced prophetic dreams and dreams of exreme importance. For someone such as myself, the line between sleep and awake is often blurred...This is affected by my own tendency towards suffering from chronic insomnia...

Perhaps this is one reason that I gravitate towards altered states of being (and altered states of being asleep!). Just the other night I was in this weird state where I wasn't quite awake, nor was I entirely dreaming. I was aware of what was going on around me, yet I was in another world. THIS is what psychadelic consciousness is like to some extent. I found myself waking up at multiple points throuth the night...At one point I was reaching out (literally waking up my spouse) in an attempt to catch a ball...At another point in my dream state, I woke myself up biting my pillow, while thinking that I was fending off some attacker. Someone such as myself has a difficulty differentiating between a "dream" and "reality." The two concepts become an intermeshed perspective of the larger notion of TRUE consciousness...

Our discussion of consciousness and reality could probably eclipse any topic intended for this message board, but I hope that my cursory definition gives you some perspective regarding myself. This said, I still welcome exploring at more depth ANY given topic of drugs or consciousness, it's one of the few areas that I feel to have lots of experience. It's one of the few areas that doesn't distinguish between our conceptions of male/female, rich/poor, black/white/brazilian/etc. Consciousness is a primal exploration of who we really are, and drugs are one of the more primitive means by which we get to this ends!

[GRH]

Originally Posted by sesame

Ok, GRH,
You could begin by describing the Altered States.:D
Is it something like a Dream state?

More directly...

An altered state is something unique in and of itself...The altered state may be like a dream state, but a lot of that depends on the mechanisms that the drug relies upon. Some drugs are notorious for mimicking a dream state...

Other drugs produce things a bit different...

There is a classic difference, and this is often drawn between the tryptamine/phenethylamine type drugs and other less classic psychadelics (dissociatives, deleriants, etc.). The classic psychadelics often produce a state of consciousness that is aware of the fact that a person is in fact under the influence of drugs. Thus, ideas that "walls are breathing" or that "colors or bleeding" and the sort are common sorts of hallucinations that are born out of the fact that a person is usually aware that they are under SOME sort of influence of a drug.

By contrast, under some drugs, a person has very little conception (if any at all!) that they are under the influence; thus, the idea of altered states is one that depends on their idea of being under the influence of drugs. Deleriants such as "Datura" and other Solanaceous deleriants act in this capacity...Their neuromechanism is very different from the route of tryptamine/phenethylamine drugs. The deleriant route is based on acetylcholine inhibition, and this route has been exploited over the years by various classes of witches, etc. who have employed differerent Solanaceous drugs over the years (Datura, Brugmansia, Brunfelsia, Henbane, Beladonna, Mandrake, etc.). Many of the witches actually employed the "drug at question" over the years, and there is some skepticism that some of the witches employed said drug via a vaginal route, through the application of the drug through through transdermal vaginal absorption.

Regardless of whether you believe this most recent post, I hope that you WILL believe, there are MANY ways of interpretting transdermal absorption.

[sesame]

GRH:

Consciousness is a primal exploration of who we really are, and drugs are one of the more primitive means by which we get to this ends!

There is another way: meditation.
Anyway, I am also very interested in the exploration of the four main states:
1) Ordinary consciousness: Awake
2) Dream (REM=Rapid Eye Movement)
3) Deep Sleep (No REM)
4) Superconscious :D ()

The difference between waking and dream is the absence of concreteness or a point of reference in the latter. But Dream is vitally linked to our well being and Not a false state. In Dreams, we get rid of the shackles of our physical body and can reach anywhere in lightning speed.

In Deep sleep, we remain totally unconscious, we dont even dream. We stop thinking here. I fact this is the real rest we get during sleep. Rest for the body and mind. (in dream, the body rests, but the mind keeps busy)

There are states in between which we can reach with meditation or drug use. In my opinion, with meditation, we can reach states where one is More Conscious of Oneself than Waking or Dreaming.

I was aware of what was going on around me, yet I was in another world.

I am talking about this state... More like, I am conscious of myself, but not in the ordinary world.

[sesame]

Thus, ideas that "walls are breathing" or that "colors or bleeding" and the sort are common sorts of hallucinations that are born out of the fact that a person is usually aware that they are under SOME sort of influence of a drug.

Hey, I had similar experiences, and in waking state! Without drugs!
I was affected by malaria... during the last few days, I saw that the walls were alive and oozing light. :D The ceiling of my bedroom was caving in upon my face. And my imagination and intuition was Boosted a 1000 times! How cool is that! On the downside, I saw horrible ugly creatues lurking around. But that is nothing in compare to the elation I felt.
God, how I miss that magical state!
I am willing to suffer from malaria for the rest of my life.

[sesame]

Have you been ever charmed by Absinthe?
[Lets continue with consciousness, I am just curious]

[marlowe]

The intoxicating substance TRANSGENERIS BEAUTIFICATUS (sometimes referred to in street parlance as "hot tranny beauty") is the subject of much debate. Opinion varies as to what is the preferred form of the substance, how it should be classified (hallucinogen? empathogen? anxiolytic?), what the effects of consumption are, and whether it is addictive.

Essentially a naturally occurring substance, there is sometimes chemical intervention in it's structure. This can be referred to as the Altered State (not to be confused with an altered state caused by consumption). For the vast majority ingestion is ocular. Intimate transdermal absorbtion is more advanced and rarer, and may include oral and anal ingestion.

The most evident form is the mass marketed version (Brazil and Thailand being principle sources) disseminated commercially throughout the world. Users of this version report that the effect is a mounting excitement leading to a brief euphoria and release of tension. Though generally considered harmless, some users can experience after effects of shame and confusion. (for further reports see the works of Dr. Wakitov)

In some cases consumption of the mass marketed version can lead to substance abuse. Esteemed writer Aldina B Huxley in her work "The Doors of Perception" points out that those prone to substance abuse develop severely distorted perception resulting in the condition known as 'dickhead'. She recommends a pure and highly refined version of the substance, and an understanding of it's qualities. A word of warning; this version is strong, it needs to be treated properly and handled with care. It may be too strong for some.

Another proponent of the mind-altering positive effects of the strong version is Prof. Havethelot. He has written extensively about the transcendental state attainable by prolonged exposure and fully incorporating the substance into one's life.

(nb: this article is written under the influence)

[sesame]

Bravo! Marlowe, Bravo!.

mind-altering positive effects of the strong version is Prof. Havethelot

That would be Hank.

Esteemed writer Aldina B Huxley

The Doors of Perception is a 1954 book by Aldous Huxley... This is a Real Book! Anyway, you could be referring to GRH (for the perception thing) or Bionca (for satiric outspokenness?)

works of Dr. Wakitov

I surrender. I've got no insights on this one. It may be the figment of your imagination, Marlowe!

Brilliant essay!

[GRH]

Sesame, I have been charmed by Absinthe before...A very nice liquor in my estimation, particularly if served right (but alas, there is some debate about what actually constitutes the traditional means of serving). It is heavily flavored of anise...The wormwood's bitterness is overthrown by the other herbs in the brew (star anise, fennel, etc.), thus the final brew is somewhat sweet, albeit HIGHLY alcoholic. The "magic" of absinthe is hypothesized to originate from the wormwood, more specifically, from the thujone that it contains. (Thujone exists in alpha and beta forms and is regulated by the FDA so as to not exist in food/drink products.) Thujone in high doses is a neurotoxin and can lead to the perception of a yellowish haze around things...Some attribute VanGogh's color sensibility to being influenced by absinthe. That said, absinthe got a really bad reputation at a time when little if anything was understood of alcoholism. Most of the reported symptoms of "absinthism" are in fact synonymous with alcoholism-- absinthe became the scapegoat for a culture struggling to understand the nature of alcohol addiction. The fact that it was one of the highest proof beverages of the day (and often imitated via unsavory and unsafe methods) absinthe is what ended up being banned. Such is the role of governments I suppose...It's really a pity, it is a good beverage...

That said, I'm glad you had a favorable run-in with malaria. MANY things can trigger altered perceptions of the universe...Stress, disease, drugs, meditation, holy books, dance, drumming, etc. My own opinion regarding altered states is that the consciousness experienced under the influence is every bit as valid as normal, waking consciousness. For that matter, like you, I view dream states as valid states of consciousness. I think waking consciousness is only one, very limited means of perceiving things. Too many people buy into the idea that this waking life is the only thing to our existence...

I myself think that we are so much more than this. That said, I'm glad to know that you have explored meditation. This is a route that I need to explore more, it would probably be less harmful to my body than all the chemicals. I must say though, I'm lazy, and psychoactives are the arm-chair quarterback's means of enlightenment. What is your major influence...Buddhist meditation? I myself have had my own spirituality heavily influenced by Hinduism...

That said, regarding our conversation about drugs, do you have any preference? Otherwise I might just pick an arbitrary place to start and will slowly pick away at describing the different categories, highs, comedowns, etc.

[sesame]

GRH:

I myself think that we are so much more than this. That said, I'm glad to know that you have explored meditation. This is a route that I need to explore more, it would probably be less harmful to my body than all the chemicals. I must say though, I'm lazy, and psychoactives are the arm-chair quarterback's means of enlightenment. What is your major influence...Buddhist meditation? I myself have had my own spirituality heavily influenced by Hinduism...

Yes, GRH, meditation is beneficial to body and mind, but one must try for a long time with much discipline to get used to it. You can't master it in 3 days. :D People want fast results and turn to drugs due to impatience. Drugs can also take one to unexplored domains of consciousness. But Drug is like a zip-zap-zoom method. You are there even before you begin to understand it. Here, Meditation has extra advantage. Meditation is slow in the beginning, but you have control over it's mechanism. And you can reach any particular plane of consciousness as many times you wish at will. With drugs, you dont know the station the train will stop at. But still I am interested in knowing (2nd hand ) about drug induced experiences, because it tells us about unexplored regions of consciousness.
The real life [REALITY]is necessary for all of us. But sometimes I find it quite boring.

Ok, the helps I recieved in meditation come from various schools of philosophy: In order of effectiveness===>
1) Vedanta from the Upanishads [Hindu]
2) Vipassana from Dhammapad [Buddhist]
3) Gita [Hindu]
4) Yoga (Rajayoga & Hathayoga) & (Aurovindo) [Hindu]
5) Don Juan (Books by Carlos Castaneda) [American Indian]

That said, regarding our conversation about drugs, do you have any preference? Otherwise I might just pick an arbitrary place to start and will slowly pick away at describing the different categories, highs, comedowns, etc.

I had many bouts with monks smoking Ganja (cannabis) :D
When they offered, I declined gracefully. You can start with Cannabis.
In one of my visits to the Himalayas, I took refuge in a hermitage for the night. This particular Hermit had a huge garden full of various psychotropic herbs! And he was a very strong, helpful and happy person. (not the typical drug junkie)
Actually these herbs can also open gateways to subtle states of the mind. But their unrestrained use (or abuse) by undisciplined people gives them a bad name. As such, mother nature is quite unbiased. She has such priceless jewels hidden in her bosom!

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Very VERY rarely .. I used to do and I have tried many things, but it just doesn't happen so much these days. Guess I becoming a dull spinster

This is one part of life where I really cannot boast of any particular experience... I've tried pot three times and never did it rock my boat. Not too long ago the gorgeous Fi (my x) introduced me to some funny Balinese mushrooms... hmmm... I admit I got a wee bit weird (more than usual), but like for the pot it didn't really work in a pleasurable way.

Nope, stay away from that crap and have a couple of beers in stead :-) Or even better, to get REAL high, suck your lady friend dry of her beautiful, beautiful liquified proteins... yummie!

Cheers!

H

[sesame]

Hanky, my jolly friend :D,
You must be getting overdosed with protein by now!

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by sesame

Hanky, my jolly friend :D,
You must be getting overdosed with protein by now!

No complaints... I even skipped my morning-egg thrice a week...

[sesame]

GRH, (& Hank)
I never get high with any narcotic substance.
Thats not my domain. I like certain alcohols, but only for their taste or flavour; Never to get intoxicated. Those which I like are:
1) Old scotch whiskey (I like Irish stuff)
2) John Bull Blended Whiskey
3) Cherry Brandy (sweet deep-red nectar)
4) Pineapple Beer (I like sweet fruity stuff)
5) Plum wine; Pinapple wine;
6) Mead (Honey :D)

As you can see, I am a sweet sweet person!

[sesame]

Hanky, you can make fun of yourself.
This is a very rare quality. I respect you for that.

[GRH]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Nope, stay away from that crap and have a couple of beers in stead :-) Or even better, to get REAL high, suck your lady friend dry of her beautiful, beautiful liquified proteins... yummie!

Alas Hank, drugs have ALWAYS gotten me off better than sex ever could. To each their own though...

[GRH]

Originally Posted by sesame

Yes, GRH, meditation is beneficial to body and mind, but one must try for a long time with much discipline to get used to it. You can't master it in 3 days. :D People want fast results and turn to drugs due to impatience. Drugs can also take one to unexplored domains of consciousness. But Drug is like a zip-zap-zoom method. You are there even before you begin to understand it. Here, Meditation has extra advantage. Meditation is slow in the beginning, but you have control over it's mechanism. And you can reach any particular plane of consciousness as many times you wish at will. With drugs, you dont know the station the train will stop at.

Practice with drugs can lead to experience, and you can begin to learn methods for guiding the train's journey. Some drugs are so completely predictable (for me at least) that I could just about give you a plot synopsis of the high prior to ever ingesting (i.e. cocaine). As to meditation, yes, it is the slowness that has always deterred me. Patience is a difficult thing to come by, especially in our convenience-driven culture. One of my best friends was very into yoga and meditation...He was sober for 30 years, but then somewhere along the way decided that he wanted to reenter the drug culture. I was never sure why he made that decision, but I think the elder care of his mother and father drove him to desparation. At any rate, even at his junkie worst, he still went running every day, would do yoga, etc. He insisted that the routine helped to keep him grounded and could ultimately take him to places farther than drugs.

Ok, the helps I recieved in meditation come from various schools of philosophy: In order of effectiveness===>
1) Vedanta from the Upanishads [Hindu]
2) Vipassana from Dhammapad [Buddhist]
3) Gita [Hindu]
4) Yoga (Rajayoga & Hathayoga) & (Aurovindo) [Hindu]
5) Don Juan (Books by Carlos Castaneda) [American Indian]

We share many influences! I absolutely love the Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads. As to Hathayoga and Aurovindo, I am somewhat familiar. As to the Don Juan books, these are a very good read, despite the rather dubious authenticity of Castaneda's dissertation. If you like Native American spirituality, I would recommend "Rolling Thunder" as a very good book that explores an alternate view of reality and draws parallels between this school of thought and the East.

I had many bouts with monks smoking Ganja (cannabis) :D
When they offered, I declined gracefully. You can start with Cannabis.
In one of my visits to the Himalayas, I took refuge in a hermitage for the night. This particular Hermit had a huge garden full of various psychotropic herbs! And he was a very strong, helpful and happy person. (not the typical drug junkie)
Actually these herbs can also open gateways to subtle states of the mind. But their unrestrained use (or abuse) by undisciplined people gives them a bad name. As such, mother nature is quite unbiased. She has such priceless jewels hidden in her bosom!

I would like to meet this Hermit. Herbs are one of my primary interests in horticulture, and I would love to have an apothecary/herbal garden some day. Right now I grow many culinary herbs, but I LOVE plants that have a history of use among mankind. For example, aconitum, mandrake, etc. are plants that I would really like to grow despite the fact that I have no interest in ever using these plants functionally. I think they are powerful plants, what Native Americans would call "helper plants."

In Indian belief, "helper plants" have their own spirit. I believe this. Each plant is unique and important, many we have only just begun to discover their utility in an ecosystem. This is not to say that ALL plants should be utilized in some functional manner by people. Still, MANY plants can be...Thus they are "helpers." Psychoactive plants are among them, but so are food plants, flowers, and medicines. I believe there is a reason that certain plants alter our consciousness in certain ways; further, I believe that we have brains and responsibility enough to use these plants. Government prohibition is the height of arrogance...Arrogance of mankind against both God, natural selection, and millions of years of evolution.

Alright, on to cannabis...
(I pause to collect my thoughts.)

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by GRH

Alas Hank, drugs have ALWAYS gotten me off better than sex ever could. To each their own though...

Hmmm... wonder whether that's due to the sexual quality of the drugs or the opposite of ur chosen sex-partners...??? :D

[GRH]

Cannabis is one of the most universally used drugs, probably behind only alcohol and caffeine. For our disccussion, I will include all cannabis derivatives in this discussion to include raw cannabis, hash (screened trichomes that are pressed together), hash oil (the oil exuded from pressed hash), tinctures, etc. As to synthetic THC (brand name Marinol), I have no personal experience, but know from talking to others that it it not as effective for a variety of reasons.

Cannabis achieves its psychoactivity via a number of cannibinoids, with THC (tetra-hydrocannibinol) being the most notorious. That said, THC is not the sole chemical responsible for the psychoactivity (This is one reason Marinol is less effective therapeutically). The different ratios of cannibinoids and other chemicals affect the overall psychoactivity...

Two distinct strains of cannabis are generally recognized...Sometimes a third, though I won't go into that. There is Cannabis sativa and Cannabis indica. The sativa strain is considered to be a more "light" smoke, a more visual, hallucinatory variety. The indica is more heavily "narcotic," a more sedating smoke, one that makes the body heavy and tired. Both species can be very powerful, though many smokers have a preference towards one type of high over the other. Personally, I find that both states of consciousness have their own time and place.

Alright, to the larger question, what does cannabis feel like? This depends largely on the strain, potency, and amount ingested. Small amounts (or large amounts among a tolerant user or with low grade weed) will produce relaxation and lowered inhibitions. This is a state very conducive to meditation. Increased potency and ingestion can lead to increased intoxification. This can include a very disinhibited sensibility and a much lighter take on life (everything becomes funny!). Increased hunger is often a side effect (the munchies), this is one reason marijuana is favored among cancer patients. There is a degree of analgesia that accompanies marijuana use. As you get to higher doses, reality becomes completely sublime. Conversation flows like water, and EVERYTHING takes on an increased sense of profundity. Sometimes you will forget what you were trying to say, but it doesn't matter. Life if lived in the moment. You open up like a flower blossoming in sunlight, inhibitions melt to a great degree, and you are peaceful and content. At worst, you consume too many calories and fall asleep. You don't knick or crave the high to the point of going out and robbing convenience stores. At the best levels, hallucinations can ensue, but these are generally closed-eye visuals and subtle distortions of sound. The hallucinations are nothing on par with psychadelics, but you get VERY creative. The desire to write or create is very strong.

That said, sometimes the desire to create is overpowered by the lethargy that can accompany marijuana use. Oftentimes, the perception of creativity and profundity is lost upon being sober. As an experienced user, I can take away from the intoxication more than others...For that matter, it has altered my perception to the point where I am a much less rage-driven individual. I am much more mellow nowadays. But cannabis does not come without its downside. First and foremost is the cost and legality. Factor that out, and you still often end up with cottonmouth. And paranoia. Paranoia is a possibility for anyone, though some seem more prone to it than others...I find that I myself am a more paranoid person than many...This has caused me anxiety over the years, but it has also saved my ass several times.

[GRH]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Hmmm... wonder whether that's due to the sexual quality of the drugs or the opposite of ur chosen sex-partners...??? :D

Drugs are neutral all in all...Once upon a time I LOVED doing some cocaine and being fucked from behind. The feeling was glorious, and I sometimes masturbated with a dildo while doing coke. That said, eventually it turned on me. If I did cocaine nowadays, I couldn't even get an erection, much less come. Ce la vie...

Regarding sex partners, I've just always found the rush of an orgasm to be too fleeting in comparison to drugs. I liken it to a hit of crack. You get high real fast and then you get let down real fast, at least in my experience. Personally, I find opium to be one of the single most intimate substances on earth...I lose my inhibitions and become sedated in a delicious way. I might become sexual, I might not. Ultimately, sex matters very little against the backdrop of intimacy that I can experience under the influence of opium. And due to my own beliefs, I personally feel that drugs give us insight into things far greater than what sex gives us insight into. It's the difference of the second chakra versus the seventh.

[GRH]

Alright, for the benefit of Sesame...

I will share a few experiences as best I can. I will try to be brief...Obviously, you could fill a whole catalogue with my pot-smoking years if you cared to. Instead, I will tell you about my first time, one of my craziest times, and an alternate route of ingestion that I fell in love with.

The first time I ever smoked pot was back in my college days. I had read about drugs via a rockstar autobiography and was convinced that I wanted to try EVERY drug possible, including the hardest drugs that scare most people off. Well, I was with a good friend who tried to persuade me that it would be okay to smoke pot, but that I shouldn't EVER try coke, acid, heroin, etc. As a result of his convictions, he attempted to procure some pot to satiate my desires. We were at a fraternity house at Georgia Tech and he ended up finding one of his fraternity brothers who smoked. We passed around a bowl and I inhaled the divine fumes. Eventually we stopped and I began to feel it setting in. We ended up sitting in the kitchen of the frat house and my friend made me a grilled cheese sandwich which tasted absolutely HEAVENLY! I had this tingling in my head, and I asked my friend about it. He said that everytime I felt a tingle, it was the explosion of some brain cells dying a violent, horrible death. That fucked with me a bit...But it never slowed me down...

I continued to party that night, and drank pretty heavily. The last thing I remember of the frat house was having a seventh shot of rum in some dimly lit room and then excusing myself to use the restroom. I went to the restroom, but for whatever reason, I decided to go for a walk. Instead of going back to my friend, I just began walking. I ended up walking a few miles into downtown Atlanta. At one point, a gentlemen in an SUV propositioned me for giving him a blow job and that got me scared. THAT is where the paranoia kicked in. I began to get truly scared and I realized that I had absolutely no idea where I was. At some point, I got tired and turned down some back alley way. I decided that it would be a good idea to lay down and get some shut-eye for a few minutes. Thus, I passed out in this alley for...an hour? two hours? I honestly have no idea how long I was out, I just know that I woke up and was astounded that I had fallen asleep on the road as I had done.

From there, I began to walk again...I ended up walking to this hotel, and ended up ducking behind a car because I was SO paranoid the cops were watching me. I was utterly convinced that the police were onto me, and I geeked out for awhile. Eventually, I went into this hotel lobby and laid down on a couch. The manager came over to me soon enough and spoke with me. This is where God was watching over me...

Instead of kicking me out, the manager said that he couldn't let me lay on the couch, but that if I sat up and pretended to be cool, he wouldn't have a problem letting me sit and sober up. I was so thankful. I sat there for what seemed like a few hours, just staring at paintings in the lobby. Eventually, I came to enough to where I went over to the desk. The shift had changed. I asked the attendants where the Georgia Tech campus was? They informed me that it was a few miles in a given direction and pointed me along my way. I followed their directions and eventually made it back to my friend sometime that next morning, roughly at 9:00 AM.

Obviously, my friend was rather distressed with my whereabouts. The average person would have probably interpretted a night like this to be a sign that they should NEVER do drugs or drink again. Instead, I felt like I had been on an incredible journey...Much like Moses wandering in the desert...And I vowed that I would explore drugs as much as possible because I felt a purpose in them, a purpose to my journey...

OK, that was a bit long...Next post will describe other experiences...

[sesame]

The last time I went to the Himalayas (Its heaven on earth), a Holy man showed me a herb. He used it in his tea everytime. It was not narcotic but had a tremendous boosting effect and cured fever. I took a small sample of that plant and showed it to all Ayurveda stores around the place. All shopowners turned out to be ignorant simpletons when it came to plant identification. (This shows the deplorable state of the science of Ayurveda in the country of it's origin) Luckily one doctor(vaid)identified it. I went to the nearest village and collected a heap of it from a local. I brought it home. Unfortunately all the plants were dead and dry by then. But surprisingly, after so many years, they work perfectly. :D

[GRH]

Alright, if you've followed this post, you might recall my reference to my best friend who was into yoga and meditation? At any rate, the first time I ever smoked with him was VERY messed up. He had this huge water bong that he had fashioned out of a chemistry flask. We ended up smoking incredible amounts of weed...He was a mad man. He just kept putting pot on the bowl and we just kept smoking. He could smoke most people under the table. Eventually he gave out, and handed me the bag and said "Help yourself to whatever you want."

Now, being new to the culture and not entirely aware of the etiquette, I took this quite literally. I continued to pile weed onto the bowl. I smoked and I smoked...

Then I went into the common room and my friend was playing the piano like a psycho. I had been warned that he would play the piana...I had also been warned that he would ask me to play the harmonica. Sure enough, he asks me to play the harmonica with him. At this point, I got paranoid. I was convinced that both he and his wife made a cruel game out of this...They'd invite people over, get them good and stoned, and then get them to play the harmonica just so they could laugh at them. I resolved that I would NOT be prey to their game. I ended up hiding under a Douglas Fir tree that they had in their living room. Eventually, I slinked into the bathroom and locked myself in this room for several hours. Inside the bathroom was a radio playing NPR and Salvador Dali's "Hallucinogenic Torador" painting. What a trippy painting...(Google it if you need reference!)...

I eventually calmed down enough to leave the bathroom...Around 4:00 AM, and my friend and wife had coffee brewing and were watching television. Who has coffee going at 4:00 AM after being up all night??? I happily had a cup and apologized for my paranoia. Who could have guessed that these people would become my favorite people on the planet?

-------------------------------

Final story, smoking produces a fairly immediate reaction, at least within a few minutes. However, the oral ingestion of marijuana can lead to VERY intense effects, though they are slower in onset. I ended up brewing what is referred to as "Green Dragon." This is an alcoholic tincture of marijuana...

You take marijuana and boil it in a solution of alcohol (use a double boiler for safety!). You strain out the alcohol and consume. The beauty of green dragon is that it gets the THC into your system MUCH faster than other oral routes (like brownies). The Green Dragon is consumed, and I must add, it is HIGHLY alcoholic...We always used Golden Grain (99% alcohol). Upon consumption, you first feel the glow of the liquor. But that liquor glow eventually melts into a VERY strong stoning. By about one hour in, I have felt like I have been smoking pot for 8 consecutive hours.

On Green Dragon, I have seen people vomit green all over the floor and loose ALL coherence and sense of where they are. One person ended up talking like Sister Cleo for several hours and had absolutely no idea who they were or where they were. Powerful stuff, it really sneaks up on you.

[GRH]

Sesame, do you know the name of the herb???

In defense of people (though not TOO much of a defense...), dried herbs and plants can be difficult to distinguish from the fresh forms.

[sesame]

Of course, I know the name and many properties of that herb, and many others that grow in different regions of Himalayas ...and some forests of Maharashtra. But I dont want to post them here or anywhere else. The next thing I will see is a patent on that herb and some stupid multinational owning it. Even the Army posted in the mountains have started to guard damn blades of grass (!!!) most jealously!.
I like to gather information on beneficial herbs. Its my hobby.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by GRH

Ultimately, sex matters very little against the backdrop of intimacy that I can experience under the influence of opium. And due to my own beliefs, I personally feel that drugs give us insight into things far greater than what sex gives us insight into.

Well, I believe you but thousands wouldn't :-)

[sesame]

Originally Posted by GRH

Ultimately, sex matters very little against the backdrop of intimacy.

...I believe it. To be intimate with somebody is a matter of the heart, or the mind really. Sex pertains to the flesh and bone body.

Originally Posted by GRH

I personally feel that drugs give us insight into things far greater than what sex gives us insight into.

Drugs actually doesnt give us anything. We just acquire the ability to remain conscious in an unexplored state of mind. Drug, Meditation or Discipline can only act as a vehicle.

Shmoking weed
shmoking wizz
doin cocke
drinkin beers beers beers
Rollin fatties
Shmoking blunts
who rolls the blunt
we roll the blunts
and who smokes the blunts
we smoke the blunts

[GRH]

Originally Posted by sesame

Drugs actually doesnt give us anything. We just acquire the ability to remain conscious in an unexplored state of mind. Drug, Meditation or Discipline can only act as a vehicle.

Alright Sesame, that said, I rescind my previous statement. For me PERSONALLY, drugs have brought about much more revolutionary processes of mind than sex has ever accomplished...That said, sex CAN be a vehicle of awareness too, though it seldom is in our culture (thus my own, precursory conclusion that is perhaps unfounded!). Tantric sex is said to be a means of eliciting the divine...This is an area of interest, but again, my own disposition has always been drawn towards neuropharmacology as opposed to reproductive rituals.

[ila]

From the discussion going on between GRH and Sesame I think there is a potential here to start at least 2 more threads. One on dreams and one on meditation as both GRH and Sesame have quite an interesting viewpoint and some interesting comments on these 2 subjects already.

[GRH]

Originally Posted by ila

From the discussion going on between GRH and Sesame I think there is a potential here to start at least 2 more threads. One on dreams and one on meditation as both GRH and Sesame have quite an interesting viewpoint and some interesting comments on these 2 subjects already.

Ila, we could start two threads, or for that matter, two separate forums on the topics. Dreams and meditation are very interesting and deep topics for me...I could write a book on some of my for what it is worth. Thanks for your interest.

[sesame]

Originally Posted by GRH

Then I went into the common room and my friend was playing the piano like a psycho. I had been warned that he would play the piana...I had also been warned that he would ask me to play the harmonica. Sure enough, he asks me to play the harmonica with him. At this point, I got paranoid. I was convinced that both he and his wife made a cruel game out of this...They'd invite people over, get them good and stoned, and then get them to play the harmonica just so they could laugh at them. I resolved that I would NOT be prey to their game. I ended up hiding under a Douglas Fir tree that they had in their living room.

Amazing, ... and incredibly funny. Could you tell us more? You provide us with such an interesting reading! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you,
Un-put-down-able.