Liberal free for all coming to an end

[randolph]

Tracy

And of course sophisticated weaponry will solve things. Haven't you seen Iron Man? Seriously though, it's worked ever since our ancestors threw rocks.

Well, We lobbed $500,000,000 dollars worth of missals into Libya. We wiped out Quaddafi's airforce (which probably wasn't worth shit) which was supposed to force him to capitulate, but he fights on. Now NATO is bombing the rebels tanks, what a fuck up!

Oh! for the glory days of Teddy Roosevelt and his great white fleet sailing around the world letting every one know how great we are.

[Enoch Root]

Good old Tracy, I can always depend on you for a loaf of halfbaked bullshit and imperialist entitlement. I find it amazing how you vacillate from pro-business bullshit to trying to sound like a reasonable person about GE's business and their tax debacle but it does implicate Obama so I guess it's easier for you to do that. And I love how you portray the victimizers (ie, the rich) as the poor victims of government policies, never mind that it is the rich who make laws to suit their own selfish ends, never mind that there is no real delineation between government and the private sector, never mind that it is deregulation that is to blame for so many problems, never mind that the economic system you love so much is a slave system.

Criminals should pay for their crimes. But I guess I'm just a parasite so what do I know?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Tracy

Well, We lobbed $500,000,000 dollars worth of missals into Libya. We wiped out Quaddafi's airforce (which probably wasn't worth shit) which was supposed to force him to capitulate, but he fights on. Now NATO is bombing the rebels tanks, what a fuck up!

Oh! for the glory days of Teddy Roosevelt and his great white fleet sailing around the world letting every one know how great we are.

I do agree with BO on one thing. Militarily, we are spread thin. So yes, we should have had command at the beginning like we did. NATO should have the capability of carrying on from there. What I don't like is that it hardly seemed planned. No one could agree on what exactly the goal was. Also, BO was barely committed to seeing it through. And they took their time getting it going. You don't commit our troops to battle if you don't really give a shit one way or another what happens.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

never mind that it is the rich who make laws to suit their own selfish ends, never mind that there is no real delineation between government and the private sector, never mind that it is deregulation that is to blame for so many problems, never mind that the economic system you love so much is a slave system.

mmmm hmmm. If you say so.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I'm just a parasite so what do I know?

Who said you're a parasite?

[TracyCoxx]

Boner fucked up last night. He seemed to have forgotten two of his pledges: Defund Obamacare, and cut spending $100 billion. I'm tired of republicans who put pleasing democrats over pleasing their own constituents.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Boner fucked up last night. He seemed to have forgotten two of his pledges: Defund Obamacare, and cut spending $100 billion. I'm tired of republicans who put pleasing democrats over pleasing their own constituents.

Are you aware that the Republicans voted overwhelmingly to continue a 147 million dollar annual subsidy to Brazilian cotton growers in order to protect Monsanto's sale of cotton seed in Brazil?
Meanwhile they want to defund family planning in the US.
If the Reagan and Bush taxcuts were eliminated, we would have a budget surplus and we could begin to pay off the debt.

Is that going to happen?
Not while the rest of us allow to be

[transjen]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Boner fucked up last night. He seemed to have forgotten two of his pledges: Defund Obamacare, and cut spending $100 billion. I'm tired of republicans who put pleasing democrats over pleasing their own constituents.

i have to laugh at all of the GOP who are now pissing and moaning about the budget and are demanding cuts and are so worried about the sea of red ink when for eight years they said not a word when W was run up the credit card with his massive tax cuts for the rich and two unfunded wars
So now that a DEM is in the white house all of a sudden you are worried about it and yet you still want all of W's tax cuts left alone and in fact you want them made bigger
So if you were serious Bush's tax cuts would be the first to go then end both wars and not start a third like John Macain wants and the GOP are banging the war drum for and end corpate wellfare
But no the GOP wants just the poor to suffer from the cuts and pay for sea of red ink while the rich party on and get even more tax cuts
Don't cut planned parent hood do away with Bush's tax cuts and it's time the rich started paying there share
GEORGE W BUSH created this mess with his trickle down BS and two wars put on credit so F rich and make them start paying there share
Trickle down does not create jobs and the world will not end if the taxes for the rich went back to pre 2001 amounts
The GOP wants to end entitlements then the first to go should be the rich should pass less then everyone else
Jerseygirl Jen

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

i have to laugh at all of the GOP who are now pissing and moaning about the budget and are demanding cuts

wait wait... I have really not read the rest yet, but I sense some good ol fashioned George Bush bashing coming on....

Originally Posted by transjen

and are so worried about the sea of red ink when for eight years they said not a word when W

hahaaaaa there it is. Jen, who is it that's pressuring Boner to make real cuts in spending?

Originally Posted by transjen

So if you were serious Bush's tax cuts would be the first to go then end both wars

Hey, tell it to your Obama

But even he knows that ending Bush's tax cuts would tank the economy. So you really don't think it's possible that we might be over spending somewhere? There was one congressman I saw on the news yesterday who came up with several hundred million to cut for a particular item in defense. It passed without any no votes at all. Are you sure you wouldn't concede that it's possible we're spending too much?

[franalexes]

"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." Theodore Roosevelt

[randolph]

Originally Posted by franalexes

"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." Theodore Roosevelt

Dear ol Teddy was the most progressive Republican president we have ever had. Such as, minimum wage, workman's comp, child labor, retirements, trust busting, etc.
He was the peoples Republican president. Most of the programs put in place by FDR were initiated by TR.
Republicans today want to do away with all the progressive programs that he started and return the country to the time when a few very rich men ruled the country (J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, et. al.). When children worked in the coal mines for six dollars a month. No minimum wage, no workers comp, no retirement, no health care.

Ah yes, we have so much to look forward to with Republicans in control of the government.

[transjen]

[QUOTE=TracyCoxx;181030]:

But even he knows that ending Bush's tax cuts would tank the economy[QUOTE]


Ah yes the same BS we have heard from the GOP sine Ronnie R it's doom and gloom if the rich have to pay there fair share of taxes
The GOP cry goverment is to big ok then first lets end Bush's expanded goverment and do away with his homeland defence agency after all it's nothing but a make you feel a false sense of safty
second end corpate wellfare the oil companies need no help
third defense spending lets shut down some of our overseas bases and keep only the truely needed ones open
fourth end the BUSH BS tax cuts for the rich and go back to the 2000 tax rates and the world would not end
fifth do away with the tax welfare for big bussness and stop these tax agreements where the end up paying almost nothing talking about the tv ads that ask have you past due taxes and owe more then 10 grand call us and you'll pay pennies on the dollar
sixth cut the payroll of the house senate and whitehouse all three are way over paid and all deserve a 30% pay cut
seventh cut out taxpayers from have to pay for all former presidents to have a office and all expanes paid for from taxpayers,if BUSH CLINTON BUSH wants an office and staff well fine make them pay for it themselves
edightth end all aid to other countries the GOP claim we are broke so end aid for for outside countries
tenth stop paying illegals collage healthcare food housing school and all other goodies the leetch one too they don't belong here and these funds should go to US born citizens who need the help
Jerseygirl Jen

[ila]

Originally Posted by transjen

...sixth cut the payroll of the house senate and whitehouse all three are way over paid and all deserve a 30% pay cut...

A paycut is good idea for politicians everywhere. But when has any politician ever taken a pay cut. They all prefer to oink at the public trough.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

The GOP cry goverment is to big ok then first lets end Bush's expanded goverment and do away with his homeland defence agency after all it's nothing but a make you feel a false sense of safty
second end corpate wellfare the oil companies need no help
third defense spending lets shut down some of our overseas bases and keep only the truely needed ones open
fourth end the BUSH BS tax cuts for the rich and go back to the 2000 tax rates and the world would not end
fifth do away with the tax welfare for big bussness and stop these tax agreements where the end up paying almost nothing talking about the tv ads that ask have you past due taxes and owe more then 10 grand call us and you'll pay pennies on the dollar
sixth cut the payroll of the house senate and whitehouse all three are way over paid and all deserve a 30% pay cut
seventh cut out taxpayers from have to pay for all former presidents to have a office and all expanes paid for from taxpayers,if BUSH CLINTON BUSH wants an office and staff well fine make them pay for it themselves
edightth end all aid to other countries the GOP claim we are broke so end aid for for outside countries
tenth stop paying illegals collage healthcare food housing school and all other goodies the leetch one too they don't belong here and these funds should go to US born citizens who need the help
Jerseygirl Jen

1. No
2. Yes - and get out of their way when it comes to drilling in the gulf of mex
3. Yes - of course, the definition of 'truly needed' is up for debate
4. No, the government is too big because it's too big, not because we're not paying enough
5. No
6. I don't know what they make. Many of them don't deserve any kind of compensation. But as far as our debt, I'm sure whatever they make is far less than a drop in the bucket.
7. hmmm, it kind of makes sense to do this. We are not a country who just gives our former presidents the boot and sends them out on the street. Might not be such a bad idea for the current president though
8. Yes
10. Absolutely

scary... we actually agree on some things

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

Tracy

Well, We lobbed $500,000,000 dollars worth of missals into Libya. We wiped out Quaddafi's airforce (which probably wasn't worth shit) which was supposed to force him to capitulate, but he fights on. Now NATO is bombing the rebels tanks, what a fuck up!

Actually the current cost, to the US is 500,000,000. That would include the cost of the missiles as well as the all other operational costs such as fuel for the aircraft, parts replacements, all munitions, and the cost of operating the ships involved.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I do agree with BO on one thing. Militarily, we are spread thin. So yes, we should have had command at the beginning like we did. NATO should have the capability of carrying on from there. What I don't like is that it hardly seemed planned. No one could agree on what exactly the goal was. Also, BO was barely committed to seeing it through. And they took their time getting it going. You don't commit our troops to battle if you don't really give a shit one way or another what happens.

The US is a signatory to NATO so why do the two of you try to make it look like NATO and the US are separate entities when it comes to military alliances and actions.

I disagree that the US should have retained command. Other countries are more than capable of taking command of military operations.

I do agree that no politician thought about what goal is to be achieved. It seems that the only thought was to destroy Libya's military capability and maybe hope that Qadhafi would leave of his own accord or maybe be overthrown. Beyond that the politicians don't have a clue as to what to do because no plan was ever made.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

mmmm hmmm. If you say so.

When you've nothing to say I guess you can always resort to onomatopoeia and condescension.

The briefest glance at the world shows it to be shackled by the American empire: sweatshops to make Nike shoes and garden-variety exploited workers in South America making your Cocacola--who are sometimes murdered by their government, a government that is in cahoots with the US to provide them cheap slave labor. Chinese workers are exploited every day to make all manner of crap that is summarily bought by Americans in thrall by your greedy, materialistic consumerist culture. The list goes on and on. And let us not forget this is because these American companies believe it natural to exploit people, just like the aristocracy of old. Let us not forget either that the use of slave labor is the real reason why jobs have been "offshored." You have to put the hoi polloi in their place after all. You have to put them to work, make them useful, show them who's boss. This is what I mean by slaves.

The point about parasites should be well known to you. Libertarians love that word don't they? "Burden us not with your chaff" and other such authoritarian garbage. These exploited workers are the "parasites" and so am I since I'm Puertorican. I'm just a moocher, a freeloader and so are the Indonesians in sweatshops and so are Mexican immigrants and so are the average US workers. It's what authoritarians always do: they exploit people and then they scapegoat them. That should sound familiar: teachers and unions are blamed for the financial troubles even though they were caused by tax cuts for the rich and two wars which have yet to end.

This issue of "parasite" or some other similar labeling of victims is at the heart of your absurd sociopolitical beliefs--you look down on the smallfolk, but pander to the rich and powerful.

[randolph]

Ila

I disagree that the US should have retained command. Other countries are more than capable of taking command of military operations.

Are they really? NATO planes bombed insurgent tanks because they didn't "know" that they had tanks.

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

Ila

Are they really? NATO planes bombed insurgent tanks because they didn't "know" that they had tanks.

Would you like me to produce a list of times and places that US planes bombed and strafed their allies? I could start with recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan and then start working back in time.

And BTW the only planes that NATO owns are AWACS. All other countries participating in the Libyan conflict are owned by their respective countries and that includes countries that don't belong to NATO.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by ila

Would you like me to produce a list of times and places that US planes bombed and strafed their allies? I could start with recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan and then start working back in time.

And BTW the only planes that NATO owns are AWACS. All other countries participating in the Libyan conflict are owned by their respective countries and that includes countries that don't belong to NATO.

I am not arguing with you on the errors US planes have made in the past.

The accidental attacks on insurgent tanks were apparently by planes flying under the NATO flag. I don't know who the planes belong to.
The point I was making is that there seems to be a serious lack of communication among the NATO participants.

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

I am not arguing with you on the errors US planes have made in the past.

The accidental attacks on insurgent tanks were apparently by planes flying under the NATO flag. I don't know who the planes belong to.
The point I was making is that there seems to be a serious lack of communication among the NATO participants.

How did you reach the conclusion that there is a serious lack of communication among NATO participants? I will also remind you that there are more countries than NATO participating in enforcing the no-fly zone in Libya.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

When you've nothing to say I guess you can always resort to onomatopoeia and condescension.

No, you've just made a bunch of unsubstantiated claims. I could get all worked up over it, or just recognize that that's your thing and let it go.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Chinese workers are exploited every day to make all manner of crap that is summarily blah blah blah

China is doing very well off our nickle. I would like very much for that to end, and for that work to come back over to the US. If the Chinese are exploited they have their government to thank. There's no reason for them to be living in the conditions they are. China is a very wealthy nation.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This issue of "parasite" or some other similar labeling of victims is at the heart of your absurd sociopolitical beliefs--you look down on the smallfolk, but pander to the rich and powerful.

Parasite is your word not mine. I'm not going to say it does or does not apply to you. I don't know you and you don't know me. You don't know who I look down on or who I pander to. And I've never heard the phrase "Burden us not with your chaff". I even googled it... nothing. It's catchy though. You should make a t-shirt with that written on it and sell it.