Middle East

[Enoch Root]

It is quite telling when a country that never ceases to claim it is democratic does not support democratic movements as in Egypt's case. That should be the default position of a free society.

[smc]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It is quite telling when a country that never ceases to claim it is democratic does not support democratic movements as in Egypt's case. That should be the default position of a free society.

The explanation lies in the difference between democracy and what we have in the United States -- bourgeois democracy.

It is the democracy of the rich. Think about it:

-- We have so-called "universal suffrage," but there are all manner of qualifications and requirements for voting that are used to suppress democracy when it serves the interests of all or some of those who truly control the country. In the meanwhile, the system perpetuates the illusion of true democracy.

-- We have those in power deciding who can or cannot run for office (decisions exercised through ballot access rules that preclude the formation of alternatives that can challenge the parties owned by the rich).

-- There is a inexorable link, politically and financially, between those in power and those who disseminate information.

These are but a few of the "conditions" of our bourgeois democracy, which exists because those in power find it convenient as a means of retaining relative social peace. Have no illusions that it would remain should genuine challenges to the rule of the rich be mounted. Be it in the name of national security, or a terrorist threat, or some kind of "emergency," what few democratic rights we do enjoy will be taken away -- or at least, the attempt will be made -- in an effort to ensure the continuation of bourgeois rule.

[Enoch Root]

Brain food! Yummy.

[smc]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It is quite telling when a country that never ceases to claim it is democratic does not support democratic movements as in Egypt's case. That should be the default position of a free society.

To my earlier post in response to this should be added that the lack of genuine support for democratic movements such as in Egypt is precisely linked to the economic interests of the ruling rich in this country. "Democracy" elsewhere serves no useful purpose for them unless it is the only way to ensure the social stability that they need to exploit the resources of another country, or to ensure that another country plays its particular assigned role in a region, and so on. Dictatorships are no problem; they can always be excused for their "strategic" importance, for their "necessity to U.S. interests" (interests that, you can probably discern, are not really yours and mine).

[Enoch Root]

A second helping!

[Trogdor]

The Egyptian are not happy yet, they want that clown out now, not at the end of his term.

[Enoch Root]

The gall of the man, eh? I won't step down but I will get rid of my cabinet. As if it made a fucking difference.

I don't even want him to leave Egypt. I want the people to throw him in jail and make of him an example.

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The gall of the man, eh? I won't step down but I will get rid of my cabinet. As if it made a fucking difference.

I don't even want him to leave Egypt. I want the people to throw him in jail and make of him an example.

Let them get the clown out of there first, getting the form of government they want, and then put him on trial according to that new government.

[randolph]

The behavior of the army is critical in this situation. In Iran, the Shah ordered the military to fire on the protesters and they killed thousands. This empowered the radical elements and Iran ended up with the Islamic Militents led by Kohemeni (sic).
We have a huge amount at stake here. Hopefully, we have enough influence with the military to keep the lid on things.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

Let them get the clown out of there first, getting the form of government they want, and then put him on trial according to that new government.

I didn't mean leave him in power. I meant that the people should do all they can to keep him from leaving Egypt to whatever safe harbors people like him have waiting for them in such circumstances. Throw him in jail.

And build a government where the people are truly in power as opposed to keeping the structure they have now or imitating the false democracy, false freedom of the US.