One more Murdered

[hankhavelock]

I've had my losses too.

We - and especially you Americans, I presume - live in a world where fascism has its evil root. Anything weird and different is up for a killing... and as long as we have a stupid right-wing, this will continue...

And that's the reality for most transsexuals - living in constant fear of not necessarily being killed but then at least being harrassed constantly by total insanity. Being regarded as freaks - being looked upon as weirdos that nobody wants.

Welcome to the glorious world of Western "demoCRAZY". Just listen to the horrible FOX-news... I'm certain they would CHEER the death of a transsexual... deep down it would make Sean Hannity feel GOOD...

So sad!

H

[NickNickNick]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

I've had my losses too.

We - and especially you Americans, I presume - live in a world where fascism has its evil root. Anything weird and different is up for a killing... and as long as we have a stupid right-wing, this will continue...

And that's the reality for most transsexuals - living in constant fear of not necessarily being killed but then at least being harrassed constantly by total insanity. Being regarded as freaks - being looked upon as weirdos that nobody wants.

Welcome to the glorious world of Western "demoCRAZY". Just listen to the horrible FOX-news... I'm certain they would CHEER the death of a transsexual... deep down it would make Sean Hannity feel GOOD...

So sad!

H

That's religion for you. Though TSes aren't mentioned in the bible, to a christain a TS would be considered a gay man, and gay men must be killed. The worst type of evil has been because of religion.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by NickNickNick

The worst type of evil has been because of religion.

Quite true, and add to that left/right-wing politics...

Actually any dogmatic philosophy which demands people to give up their mindset and freedom and surrender to a prescribed set of rules that fits the ppl who wrote it.

I live in a muslim country, so I feel that thing everyday. Americans live in a society where right-wing (religious) mentality is still very much the daily order, so they feel it too.

Religious and political dogmatism should be illegalized. However, we are free to interpret things as we wish to a certain degree.

Not before we can have a common truly open mind that does not force us to impose our views on others do we reach true democracy.

It's called "live and let live".

H

[ila]

Originally Posted by NickNickNick

That's religion for you. Though TSes aren't mentioned in the bible, to a christain a TS would be considered a gay man, and gay men must be killed. The worst type of evil has been because of religion.

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Quite true, and add to that left/right-wing politics...

Actually any dogmatic philosophy which demands people to give up their mindset and freedom and surrender to a prescribed set of rules that fits the ppl who wrote it.

I live in a muslim country, so I feel that thing everyday. Americans live in a society where right-wing (religious) mentality is still very much the daily order, so they feel it too.

Religious and political dogmatism should be illegalized. However, we are free to interpret things as we wish to a certain degree.

Not before we can have a common truly open mind that does not force us to impose our views on others do we reach true democracy.

It's called "live and let live".

H

Stop making Amanda’s death a political and/or religious issue. Her death was tragic. I rather doubt that her murderer considered any political or religious values before killing her.

[smc]

Originally Posted by NickNickNick

That's religion for you. Though TSes aren't mentioned in the bible, to a christain a TS would be considered a gay man, and gay men must be killed. The worst type of evil has been because of religion.

Originally Posted by ila

Stop making Amanda?s death a political and/or religious issue. Her death was tragic. I rather doubt that her murderer considered any political or religious values before killing her.

Amen to ila's point. NickNickNick, I know plenty of people who identify themselves as Christians who would never accept this notion that their religion requires killing. I don't agree with their religion, but I honor the fact that they see past the narrow interpretations that are often used to justify horrific acts in the name of religion.

That said, the main point is that Amanda was murdered. MURDERED. The reason matters not, for the act is unjustifiable, and no discussion or analysis that seeks to explain it takes away that fact.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by smc

The reason matters not, for the act is unjustifiable, and no discussion or analysis that seeks to explain it takes away that fact.

"The reason matters not" ???

That must be the most amazingly provocative thing I've heard to date here (and I've heard some major dumb things here, I tell you).

You just want to let her go away and try to cover it up in some pleasant "let it all pass" mentality! Like. "Let's make it sweet and silent..."?

She was murdered because of her transsexuality in a country that salutes itself to be an openminded democracy.

When do you people LEARN the facts of your own faschism? When do you STOP saying "The reason matters not" ?

What matters here is SO the reason. The reason that trannies are fair game in a closeminded society. A society that will even say "The reason matters not".

You BET it matters! Shame on you all! And that goes for Ila too, who conveniently wants to sweep the dishonour of the deed under a carpet.

Let us enjoy the little trannies... but let us FOR GOODNESS SAKE avoid the magnitude of shame when they get raped, fucked, screwed, turned down, pissed on, neglected and eventually murdered... because "The reason matters not"

How dare you!

H

[smc]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

"The reason matters not" ???

That must be the most amazingly provocative thing I've heard to date here (and I've heard some major dumb things here, I tell you).

You just want to let her go away and try to cover it up in some pleasant "let it all pass" mentality! Like. "Let's make it sweet and silent..."?

She was murdered because of her transsexuality in a country that salutes itself to be an openminded democracy.

When do you people LEARN the facts of your own faschism? When do you STOP saying "The reason matters not" ?

What matters here is SO the reason. The reason that trannies are fair game in a closeminded society. A society that will even say "The reason matters not".

You BET it matters! Shame on you all! And that goes for Ila too, who conveniently wants to sweep the dishonour of the deed under a carpet.

Let us enjoy the little trannies... but let us FOR GOODNESS SAKE avoid the magnitude of shame when they get raped, fucked, screwed, turned down, pissed on, neglected and eventually murdered... because "The reason matters not"

How dare you!

H

How dare you!

You have so profoundly misrepresented what I wrote. Let's read it again:

"That said, the main point is that Amanda was murdered. MURDERED. The reason matters not, for the act is unjustifiable, and no discussion or analysis that seeks to explain it takes away that fact."

In other words, a MURDER was committed. None of the explanations of the previous posters, who seek to analyze WHY, takes away this simple fact. The specific response was to someone who put the "justification" in the context of religion. My response was that no one should be MURDERED. PERIOD. Whatever reason may be given, whether it be given as analysis or justification or rationalization, that fact does not change.

The suggestion that I meant anything REMOTELY like what you wrote, and the direct statement that I have opinions that are "fascism," are not only dead wrong, but are is an insult of epic proportions. Read any of my posts, where I have taken on every comer who denigrates or belittles or abuses our trans members, or trans people in society, and then say it again, Hank. I dare you!

You are absolutely correct that this corrupt American society, this pseudo-democracy, is a place where discrimination and even murder of those who are different is a regular occurrence. It is an abhorrent reality of this country. I could not agree more.

But you, Hank, ought to take a breath and read a bit more carefully before you start throwing around your invective against the wrong people!

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Shame on you all! And that goes for Ila too, who conveniently wants to sweep the dishonour of the deed under a carpet.
H

I will not debate here whether America has become more “fascist” over the last 10 years or so. That kind of in depth discussion requires, in my opinion, face to face conversation with people I know. My own views are complex and not easily expressed in a narrow medium such as an on line forum. Let’s just say I am very disappointed in the direction my country has taken since December 12, 2000.

My own posts here speak for themselves as do smc's.

However, I cannot allow my friend ila’s reputation to be tarnished or his support for the transgender community and rights of transwomen to be questioned. I cannot imagine someone who cares more or is in more pain over yet one more senseless death.

Dr. A

(Saw that smc has already responded -- well said! )

[ila]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

.......You BET it matters! Shame on you all! And that goes for Ila too, who conveniently wants to sweep the dishonour of the deed under a carpet........

.....How dare you!

H

And how dare you try to put words in my mouth!!!! I did not ever say that the murder of a woman does not matter and I did not sweep anything under the rug. I said to quit trying to make Amanda's murder a religious and/or a political issue. Read my post again (the whole post) and this time try to understand it.

[ginger22]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

"The reason matters not" ???

That must be the most amazingly provocative thing I've heard to date here (and I've heard some major dumb things here, I tell you).

You just want to let her go away and try to cover it up in some pleasant "let it all pass" mentality! Like. "Let's make it sweet and silent..."?

She was murdered because of her transsexuality in a country that salutes itself to be an openminded democracy.

When do you people LEARN the facts of your own faschism? When do you STOP saying "The reason matters not" ?

What matters here is SO the reason. The reason that trannies are fair game in a closeminded society. A society that will even say "The reason matters not".

You BET it matters! Shame on you all! And that goes for Ila too, who conveniently wants to sweep the dishonour of the deed under a carpet.

Let us enjoy the little trannies... but let us FOR GOODNESS SAKE avoid the magnitude of shame when they get raped, fucked, screwed, turned down, pissed on, neglected and eventually murdered... because "The reason matters not"

How dare you!

H

amen and well said. so sad and frustrating

[TrannyLover2]

Originally Posted by smc

Amen to ila's point. NickNickNick, I know plenty of people who identify themselves as Christians who would never accept this notion that their religion requires killing. I don't agree with their religion, but I honor the fact that they see past the narrow interpretations that are often used to justify horrific acts in the name of religion.

That said, the main point is that Amanda was murdered. MURDERED. The reason matters not, for the act is unjustifiable, and no discussion or analysis that seeks to explain it takes away that fact.

100% agree with the above. And RIP Amanda...