Barack Obama

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

You said above you wouldn't discuss them because you thought it was all from Glenn Beck, the right-wing whack job. Not that you called him or I that, but it's implied. Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I wasn't sure if english was your 1st language and I didn't quite understand your posting where you summarized my issues. If you don't want to debate those issues, fine. But I consider all of them pretty serious, especially when taken together. And as I've shown on the 3rd issue, the source isn't Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Levin, Coulter or Palin. It was Obama. Much of the information I have are direct sources.

TRACY:

Firstly, thank you, for the illiterate insult.

I said they were ATTACK issues!!

Guilt by association, guilt by location.

Association like Bill Ayers equals pals around with terrorists.

Geography like Chicago equals Obama is a crook too.

Example only: McCain hung around with commies for years. How did he get out alive without there being a reason? Just sayin.

These are ATTACK issues, and they are done by political people--like you who despise Obama to begin with without a reason, and hate after you have a reason. The point is to create as many doubts about your political rival as you can.

I know you cannot attack a war hero, or a president (Bush 43) during wartime.

TAL

[randolph]

well said.

These are ATTACK issues, and they are done by political people--like you who despise Obama to begin with without a reason, and hate after you have a reason. The point is to create as many doubts about your political rival as you can.

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.
Cant we just love each other as fellow humans?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.
Cant we just love each other as fellow humans?

I don't know what to say. I realize now how hateful I've been. All I have to do is think back to when Bush was in office to remember how loving and understanding Democrats were about him. I am sorry, please forgive me and the other conservative hate mongers.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I don't know what to say. I realize now how hateful I've been. All I have to do is think back to when Bush was in office to remember how loving and understanding Democrats were about him. I am sorry, please forgive me and the other conservative hate mongers.

TRACY:

BTW, there was no reason for me to post the entire line, as it had no affect on context. Just pointing that out.

RANDY:

Conse 'Pubs feel that going after Obama every day on every thing is payback for Bush 43. The unwashed inferiors had the nerve to UNJUSTLY criticize Bush 43 for torture, wire tapping, Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, The Iraq War, bin Laden still at large and 112 other questionable actions. And, yes, Tracy will no doubt justify every action from those 8 years that are mentioned above, while there is no justifying a single move by Obama--not one.

Of course, attacking Clinton required no payback, and honestly do you think Conse 'Pubs need a reason to attack Obama? I don't, how 'bout you, Randy?


TAL

[CCC]

Originally Posted by randolph

well said.



Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.
Cant we just love each other as fellow humans?

You sound like a contestant for Miss America--that won't happen til the Liberal Dems stop messing with the Consitution, the Bill of Rights and my wallet.

[randolph]

Well guys, I am "retiring" from this thread, its becoming "threadbare".
It's more fun writing erotic stories and thinking about lovely tgirls.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Well guys, I am "retiring" from this thread, its becoming "threadbare".
It's more fun writing erotic stories and thinking about lovely tgirls.

Well it's been stimulating debating with you. You were the most objective of them and you knew what you were talking about. Post your stories ok?

[jimnaseum]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

You were the most objective of them

What do you mean them?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

What do you mean them?

LOL!!!!!!!

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by CCC

You sound like a contestant for Miss America--that won't happen til the Liberal Dems stop messing with the Consitution, the Bill of Rights and my wallet.

RANDY:

They want their country back to the good old days of TAX CUTS!!!


It's all about the full wallet.


TAL

[jimnaseum]

Originally Posted by randolph

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives.

Not hate, Randy, FEAR.

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by randolph

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

Not hate, Randy, FEAR.

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

[CCC]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

What a jerk---does he think that is going to get him better ratings--I have more people listening to my radio show than him.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

JIM:

Translation: Unless you're perfect you cannot criticize the right, because they don't criticize--they ONLY disagree. You're not perfect if there is 1 thing to question, which means they can do a million things you think are wrong.

TAL

[ila]

^And apparently one cannot criticize the left without receiving a condescending snarky reply in return.

[franalexes]

No one is more intollerant of others than the left that claim to be tollerant.

[ila]

Originally Posted by franalexes

No one is more intollerant of others than the left that claim to be tollerant.

That is so true.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by ila

^And apparently one cannot criticize the left without receiving a condescending snarky reply in return.

ILA:

Hopefully, your politics in Canada are more pleasant than ours here south of the border. Me, I'm a Mod Dem, who went from slightly left of center to left of center after 8 years of Bush-Cheney.

It's been my experience that the left is willing to compromise, hear another opinion, realistic criticism, and honest debate. That said, the right likes political debate, which breaks down everything to equal opinions. In other words, Obama is not an American is equal and opinion only to those of us who think he's an American.

Me, If Obama pulled some of the stunts Bush pulled, I'd bust on him myself. Right now, Obama has 5 or 6 questionable actions, but it's too soon to say if any will turn out to be Bush-like.

TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Me, If Obama pulled some of the stunts Bush pulled, I'd bust on him myself. Right now, Obama has 5 or 6 questionable actions, but it's too soon to say if any will turn out to be Bush-like.

TAL

What 5 or 6 actions do you consider questionable?

[ila]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

ILA:

Hopefully, your politics in Canada are more pleasant than ours here south of the border. Me, I'm a Mod Dem, who went from slightly left of center to left of center after 8 years of Bush-Cheney.

It's been my experience that the left is willing to compromise, hear another opinion, realistic criticism, and honest debate. That said, the right likes political debate, which breaks down everything to equal opinions. In other words, Obama is not an American is equal and opinion only to those of us who think he's an American.

Me, If Obama pulled some of the stunts Bush pulled, I'd bust on him myself. Right now, Obama has 5 or 6 questionable actions, but it's too soon to say if any will turn out to be Bush-like.

TAL

Politics here is just as bad with the left full of self righteous indignation at the right for doing the same things that the left did when they formed the government. The left leaning media doesn?t help the situation either because they continually criticize the right while neglecting to mention that the left did the same things, only more often.

Attack ads against opponents are all too common now. No politician ever discusses issues anymore. They are all like a bunch of children on one long temper tantrum. One group of politicians accuses a second group of lying who accuse a third group of lying who accuse the first group of lying.

There is no leadership in politics anymore. No one is in it for the good of the country and the people. They are all there to feed at the public trough, ensure that they and their buddies have a regular paycheck, and cause never ending headaches and problems for the citizens that they are supposed to serve (this is a bit of an exaggeration as some politicians are altruistic, just not enough are). This applies to all the parties and not any particular one.

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

JIM: Translation: Unless you're perfect you cannot criticize the right, because they don't criticize--they ONLY disagree. You're not perfect if there is 1 thing to question, which means they can do a million things you think are wrong.

TAL

Tal, just for the record, all I was saying with my post -- or rather letting Keith Olbermann make my point for me -- is that broad blanket statements like Randolph made ("Its sad there is so much hate among conservatives. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace") and that Jim made ("Not hate, Randy, FEAR") really hold no water when statements of EQUAL anger and fear mongoring are made on the Left TOO.

Look, do I think Rush often goes over the top? Absolutely.
Do I think a Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck can go over the top? I do.
There -- I'll admit it and put it on the record.

But at the same time that you are trying to get that concession out of me, you can't honestly expect me (or others) to just look the other way and ignore the bitterness coming from the Left as well. Otherwise we'd have the equivalent of you and me squaring off in a boxing ring, at which point you say, "I'd like us to have a fair match." And then as soon as I say "sure" and start to turn, to go to my corner, you quickly blurt out "But I'm allowed to get in a sucker punch first!" KA-POW!

I mean, come on -- fair is fair. If you or anyone else on the Left wants me (or others) to denounce over-the-top ravings of a Rush Limbaugh or whoever, then the Left has to likewise admit to (as I showed with my clip) that the frothing at the mouth ravings of people like Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow, etc, are EQUALLY nutty.

In fact, since we're on the topic of simply spreading hate or fear, allow me to present Liberal radio and TV host Ed Schultz on MSNBC just tonight, as he discusses Sarah Palin's speech at the Tea Party Convention with Bob Shrum, Democratic strategist and perpetual party hack, who decided NOT to discuss her speech on intellectual grounds, but chose instead to take a cheap personal shot at Palin by bitterly declaring: "She came across as a merchant of hate with an oh gosh smile." Wow, that's some real Ivy League intellectual analysis there, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3pre0VgX5s


So, I'll repeat what I said before: Yeah, you guys are right.
No on on the Left could ever be accused of peddling hate or fear themselves.
(insert mocking eye roll here)

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

Tal, just for the record, all I was saying with my post -- or rather letting Keith Olbermann make my point for me -- is that broad blanket statements like Randolph made ("Its sad there is so much hate among conservatives. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace") and that Jim made ("Not hate, Randy, FEAR") really hold no water when statements of EQUAL anger and fear mongoring are made on the Left TOO.

Look, do I think Rush often goes over the top? Absolutely.
Do I think a Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck can go over the top? I do.
There -- I'll admit it and put it on the record.

But at the same time that you are trying to get that concession out of me, you can't honestly expect me (or others) to just look the other way and ignore the bitterness coming from the Left as well. Otherwise we'd have the equivalent of you and me squaring off in a boxing ring, at which point you say, "I'd like us to have a fair match." And then as soon as I say "sure" and start to turn, to go to my corner, you quickly blurt out "But I'm allowed to get in a sucker punch first!" KA-POW!

I mean, come on -- fair is fair. If you or anyone else on the Left wants me (or others) to denounce over-the-top ravings of a Rush Limbaugh or whoever, then the Left has to likewise admit to (as I showed with my clip) that the frothing at the mouth ravings of people like Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow, etc, are EQUALLY nutty.

In fact, since we're on the topic of simply spreading hate or fear, allow me to present Liberal radio and TV host Ed Schultz on MSNBC just tonight, as he discusses Sarah Palin's speech at the Tea Party Convention with Bob Shrum, Democratic strategist and perpetual party hack, who decided NOT to discuss her speech on intellectual grounds, but chose instead to take a cheap personal shot at Palin by bitterly declaring: "She came across as a merchant of hate with an oh gosh smile." Wow, that's some real Ivy League intellectual analysis there, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3pre0VgX5s


So, I'll repeat what I said before: Yeah, you guys are right.
No on on the Left could ever be accused of peddling hate or fear themselves.
(insert mocking eye roll here)

C-MIN:

Firstly, I'm in the middle with a view to the right and the left, and there is a big slant to the right in combativeness. Schultz is a far-left guy that I stopped watching after 6 weeks, but he is no match for Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, and Levin. He's behind them in 5th place for over the top. Olbermann, Maddow and O'Reilly are behind the big 5. Mathews and Van Sustern are the fairest of the lot, and ALL on both sides are biased by nature, which shows in their wording.

Secondly, my interest in politics cannot be satisfied by honest debate, because that requires 2 sides to be honest. So, I look for weak arguments to feast on, because I'm offered no other choice. I find whose-side-are-you-on arguments to be offensive. It should be a debate of facts, and not a charlatan sporting event.

Thirdly, I wasn't trying to get you to admit something; I was pointing out an argument that stated the other side does it: equal.

Personally, I don't care who is in The WH from Conse 'Pub to Lib Dem, but just do the job. Granted, I'm more left of center than ever after 8 years of The Clinton-Ken Starr Admin., after 8 years of Bush-Cheney with 118 questionable actions, and after 1 year of daily attacks on Obama. Obama has gotten more in 1 year than Bush got in 8 years, and it's not just the pols. It's the right media, and citizens.

Example: Don't tell me we are threatened by a country that is militarily 60% of what it was 12 before, when its army couldn't surrender fast enough. That that is more of a priority than getting bin Laden, and you expect me to trust your judgement as president? That means whether you're Clinton, Bush or Obama, I don't want to hear what I can see thru. This is just me, which is why Palin is so unappealing to me.

As far as Obama's questionable actions, I'll name 8.

TRACY:

1. 50 Gitmo prisoners who'll be imprisoned for life without charge, and/or with tarnished evidence (waterboarding).

2. Wiretapping continues.

3. No Wall Street restrictions for a year.

4. Pushing for bi-partisanship with pols who opening brag they will negotiate in poor faith to slow down and stop legislation only.

5. Upping The Afgan War with more troops after 8 years.

6. The Iraq War not ending soon enough.

7. Not prosecuting war crimes above the legalized torture of Yoo

8. and below is very quiet.

1 is not having enough info to find a better action.
2 is not talked about to show a change has been made.
3 is now heading in the right direction, but it's way too early.
4 is what's wrong with politics, and I feel it may be more than a 1-person job for anybody.
5 might be the right choice, but need to know more of what's going on.
6 seems to be slow, but that could be just me.
7 might be the best option for the country, or not.
8 appears to be a little too quiet.


I only say 118 questionable Bush actions, some are no longer questionable, because none are prosecuted.

So, Conse 'Pubs, bring a crap argument and I'll bring a mop.

TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Personally, I don't care who is in The WH from Conse 'Pub to Lib Dem, but just do the job. Granted, I'm more left of center than ever after 8 years of The Clinton-Ken Starr Admin., after 8 years of Bush-Cheney with 118 questionable actions, and after 1 year of daily attacks on Obama. Obama has gotten more in 1 year than Bush got in 8 years, and it's not just the pols. It's the right media, and citizens.

There's no argument, the right-media is letting BO have it. But at the same time, BO does things that should prompt an objective journalist to ask probing follow up questions and the left-media just lets it go. Also, the administration wants to (sometimes demands to) preview questions whenever possible. That's not how it's supposed to work.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

This is just me, which is why Palin is so unappealing to me.

She's unappealing to me too. Politically that is. Other than that, she's kinda hot.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

As far as Obama's questionable actions, I'll name 8.

TRACY:

1. 50 Gitmo prisoners who'll be imprisoned for life without charge, and/or with tarnished evidence (waterboarding).

Originally Posted by Talvenada

2. Wiretapping continues.

This is a tough one. Presumably they only wiretap questionable people, and it has netted results. On the other hand, they could wiretap anyone. But do they? Who knows?

Originally Posted by Talvenada

3. No Wall Street restrictions for a year.

That's that free market thing.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

4. Pushing for bi-partisanship with pols who opening brag they will negotiate in poor faith to slow down and stop legislation only.

Polls show that the american people are against health care and out of control government spending. There is no one in congress with voting power to represent these people who are the majority. So republicans use the only tool they have which is to slow down or stop legislation.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

5. Upping The Afgan War with more troops after 8 years.

I'm not sure about this one because I've never heard from BO what our goal in Afghanistan is, or what his larger picture of the war on terror is, if any.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

6. The Iraq War not ending soon enough.

I'm fine with this war ending because we have for the most part won it.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

7. Not prosecuting war crimes above the legalized torture of Yoo

huh?

Originally Posted by Talvenada

8. and below is very quiet.

below what?

Originally Posted by Talvenada

I only say 118 questionable Bush actions, some are no longer questionable, because none are prosecuted.

From what I've seen there are multitudes of gripes attributed to Bush, when what's really going on isn't so black and white. And also things like Abu Ghraib being blamed on Bush when it was actually service men & women who committed those acts on their own.

And this summarizes my thoughts pretty well about the start of the Iraq war...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5p-qIq32m8

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

These are ATTACK issues, and they are done by political people--like you who despise Obama to begin with without a reason, and hate after you have a reason.

On what basis do you claim I despised Obama without reason?

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

On what basis do you claim I despised Obama without reason?

Before, I merely despised him.

TRACY:

Remember, you said this without a reason attached to it?


TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Remember, you said this without a reason attached to it?

I said

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Before, I merely despised him. Seeing as how BO has now targeted my job and lifelong goal I am in a particularly foul mood when it comes to him today.

I didn't think I had to put a reason on it. There's 31 pages of my reasons on this thread