Global warming???

[Rachel]

China is probably the worlds biggest polluter. With all their factories spewing un filtered smoke into the atmosphere. Look at how bad their air was during the Olympics. People think they are helping the environment by driving hybrid cars. Guess what? The special batteries they use are made in China. The lead they smelt to make them(through unfiltered smokestacks naturally) pollute the earth more then my fossil fuel burning vehicles ever will. I use to get really POed when the motor vehicle inspections would fail my vehicle for emmisions Some say it is rigged. I do believe that. Took my car to inspection knew it needed a tuneup. It had a digital dash giving average MPGS and such. It failed ok. Tuned it up put in new plugs air filter spark plug wires , fuel filter pcv valve, checked timing etc. Miliage jumped up from 16 average to 21. Engine running better cleaner smoother more efficient right? No they are telling me my emmisions tripled! I had a fit. I use to work at a major airport for 10 years as a mechanic. I'd be on the ramp(air operations area) jets running all over the place. I figured they burned more fuel and put out more pollution leaving the gate and taxiing out then my car ever would if it ran 24 hours a day for years. Not to mention when it flies away either.

[Rachel]

Damn I think that was the longest post I ever made here lol

[The Conquistador]

Man-caused global warming is hippie propaganda for the sole reason that humans haven't been recording temperatures long enough to determine whether or not the Earth is going through heating and cooling cycles and whether or not we actually have any part in it(and even if we do, it is most probably very minimal at best).

Stick it to the hippies; burn a tire in your backyard.

[Rachel]

damn hippies!

[randolph]

There is plenty of real data out there for anybody to look at if they are interested in more than spouting uninformed opinions.

[The Conquistador]

But randolph. How can we be sure that we are the cause of the warming? Or could the Earth naturally be going through a warming cycle? I do believe that the Earth is getting warmer, but can it be proven without a doubt, that humans are the cause of said warming?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

But randolph. How can we be sure that we are the cause of the warming? Or could the Earth naturally be going through a warming cycle? I do believe that the Earth is getting warmer, but can it be proven without a doubt, that humans are the cause of said warming?

This is where things get sticky. GW proponents blame much of the warming trend on the steady increase in CO2 levels produced by the burning of fossil fuels. There is solid physics behind this view. However, the warming trend is not following the rise in CO2. In fact, GW peaked in 1998 in many areas of the earth and has stabilized at about one degree above the long term average.
Mother nature is far more complicated than we are able to understand. The computer modeling going on is, I believe, very dubious. To predict what is going to happen ten years or fifty tears from now based on computer models is, I believe, ridiculous. However, pouring vast amounts of hydrocarbon gases into the atmosphere is asking for trouble. We don't really know what that is going to do to the climate.
What is ironic, is that after WWII there was a cooling trend until the mid seventies. What happened then? There was a concerted effort to clean up smog and smoke. This had no effect on CO2 output, however. So the smoke and smog emissions that suppressed the warming effect of CO2 were reduced allowing the CO2 to warm the air.
So unless we know what we are doing, the safest thing to do is cut back on burning oil and coal. Its not going to last forever anyway.

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by randolph

There is plenty of real data out there for anybody to look at if they are interested in more than spouting uninformed opinions.

I only spout when I get excited

[randolph]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I only spout when I get excited

Your "spouting" would be most welcome!

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I only spout when I get excited

I'd definetly want some "fuel injection". Can you fit your piston into my cylinder, or would it need to be bored oversive?

[violet lightning]

Originally Posted by randolph

There is plenty of real data out there for anybody to look at if they are interested in more than spouting uninformed opinions.

130 years, (the amount of time man has been keeping meteorlogical/climate data- and the timespan on the 3 graphs you show) is virtually a speck in the geological and climactic history of the Earth.
They have taken ice core samples I believe, that go further back, but I don't have that data.

LIke others have said, I do believe man certainly can and does have an effect on our environment. (extinction of species, nuclear waste, deforestation, etc), but I'm not sure about "planetary effects".
Far better it seems, is to focus back on pollution, deforestation, (which can cause climate change) and resource management. Things we do know are happening, have a definite cause and which are detrimental to man and the environment.

:D Also, I know nuclear winter is from a nuclear exchange. I used the term as a comparison with volcanos, as I have heard several scientist do. The similarities are the amount of debris and smoke they both toss up into the upper atmosphere, resulting in a loss of sunlight and cooling temperatures.

Good discussion and many good points on all sides.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by violet lightning

130 years, (the amount of time man has been keeping meteorlogical data- and the timespan on the 3 graphs you show) is virtually a speck in the geological and climactic history of the Earth. I would think you would know that, being so informed.
They have taken ice core samples I believe, that go further back, but you don't have that data.

I have heard that the earth is self-regulating, and that when the sun warms up (sun cycles, etc), the earth can cool itself. One of these results (a weather expert said) in releasing carbon dioxide from the oceans, which is a fairly simple and understood cause/effect relationship.
Makes sense to me.

The three graphs posted were simply examples of data available to anyone who wants to see for themselves what is going on climatically.

Sorry, you second paragraph makes no sense to me.