Self Defense

No one should have to live in fear. Period. That I’m sure, we can all agree on. Since joining this forum, I have read far too many posts about acts of violence towards transgendered individuals or their admirers. While I truly believe our society has become more tolerant regarding race and gender, the harsh reality is that not everyone is so nice and accepting. This was not an easy post for me to write. But after learning about what some of you have had to deal with (most recently our member who was assaulted--by several attackers) I felt I had to.

You are a good person. You are open-minded and very tolerant of others. You probably don’t go around picking fights with others and you would like to live your own life in peace. You probably have friends who are just like you. You and your friends would never ever think of harming anyone. Some of you probably don’t even like watching violent movies. Unfortunately, as we have all-too-often experienced with hate crimes, there are those individuals who because of “racial” or “anti-gay” or “gender” prejudice want to hurt you for no other reason than who you are… In a perfect world, these scum wouldn’t even exist. But the world we live in is not perfect. You do not want to become a victim. Nor should you have to live your life in fear from anybody. Ever. From a practical perspective, what can you do about it?

For starters, I think taking a “self defense” class or studying Karate or some other martial art is a good idea. Find a class or instructor nearby--and make sure you are comfortable with the “style” and method of teaching. You don’t have to become a “Black Belt” either--knowing a few simple but effective techniques is fine. You should practice these basic “moves” over and over until you are sure you can use them against someone. This can even be fun to do with friends--just don’t get too carried away! Also, don’t worry that you are not Jet Li or Chuck Norris or “Trinity” in “The Matrix.” That stuff is better left in the movies anyway. Working out regularly and being in shape is good too. Attackers are less likely to choose someone who walks and acts confidently. If you are in a group, that will further lessen the chances that you will become a victim. You’re probably thinking: that’s easy for me to say since I’m a pretty big guy. But what if you are like 5’5” and 120? And alone? Despite what you see on TV and in movies--there are times when even having a Black Belt isn’t going to do much good against someone who is bigger and stronger or when you are dealing with multiple attackers (which seems to be the “pattern” of many hate crimes).

Which brings us to the most difficult and controversial question regarding self-defense. Should you buy a gun? That is not an easy question to answer. Speaking totally for myself, I am politically somewhat liberal (at least on “social justice” issues--I am a champion of individual rights and freedoms) as are probably many people on this forum. The “second amendment” in the United States gives us the “right to keep and bear arms.” Not everyone agrees with this. Almost all of my colleagues at my university are opposed to anyone owning a handgun. You may be opposed to even the idea of carrying a handgun. If so, you may want to leave it at learning Karate. Nothing wrong with that! My own upbringing included learning about firearms. My dad was a Korean War veteran and two of my uncles served in Vietnam--and were hunters. Yes, I own a handgun (a SIG P229 .40 caliber for anyone who cares or knows about this stuff) and have a permit to carry. Sometimes I do carry. Should you?

First of all you must realize that we are talking about potentially taking the life of another. Are you prepared to do that? Have you ever thought about it? Would you be able to “pull the trigger” on someone? Realistically, most of us (including me) unless we have been in military combat or law enforcement, can’t honestly answer that question until the moment. But you must at least consider the consequences. Shooting a gun isn’t as it appears on TV. Guns are loud (very loud--I was watching “Die Hard 3” the other day where Bruce Willis takes out like five guys in an elevator--his ears would be ringing for weeks), they kick, they are complex to operate (especially automatics), and require (like anything else) training and practice to master. They also, if you don’t know what you are doing, can be as dangerous to yourself as to your opponent! Finally, there are strict laws governing the ownership and carrying of handguns. Believe me, you don’t want to shoot yourself or get “busted”! Look up “Plaxico Burress” for more information on this. Check the laws where you live before you purchase a gun. If you are going to carry it--get a permit. There is also the question of what happens after you have shot someone in self defense. Be prepared to be questioned by the police, maybe even taken in for questioning--assuming your gun was “legal”--otherwise you will most likely be arrested and facing prosecution and maybe jail time. And this last part is the most difficult and perhaps the most serious issue--assuming you have had to use your gun, you have now killed or seriously wounded someone in self-defense… you have to ask yourself if that is something you will be able to live with for the rest of your life.

If you can get all of the above straight in your head… next, you need to choose a handgun that is right for you. My advice is to go to a reputable dealer--one that also has a range and offers instruction--and try several models out--don’t be shy about it! Also don’t be afraid to admit you don’t know anything or that you have never even shot a gun before. There is a first time for everything. This is also a time to check your own head out--does even holding a gun bother you? Do you hold it like you would rather not even be touching it? If so, then maybe this is not the time. If you are OK with it, then my advice for what it’s worth is: 1) Forget anything you have seen in the movies--Clint Eastwood’s .44 Magnum or Arnold’s .45 Long Slide “with laser sighting”--are not for you. 2) Calibers worth considering include: 9mm, .38 Special, or possibly even a .40 automatic. 3) A .22, .25, or .32 can kill but doesn’t have much “stopping power”--shoot someone with a .22 and they will die--after they have taken you out. 4) Make sure the gun “feels” good in your hand--remember it will kick and you want to be able to deal with that. You can always get “custom” grips to fit your hand. I recommend it. 5) Try a few different models out if you can--if you have never shot a gun before--now is the time! Make sure you have your hearing protectors and glasses on. You might be nervous at first but you will find you can do it. I am also assuming you will receive qualified instruction at a range. This is not “backyard practice” time. You can get in lots of trouble firing a gun within city limits most places and what if you shoot someone by accident? 6) Some of the “big names” like Colt, S&W, Beretta, SIG, etc. are very expensive. There is a company called Taurus that makes good quality firearms and has models similar to the others--for a lot less. Don’t buy a cheap “Saturday Night Special”--you want it to be reliable--and legal! 7) Sign up for a course and learn to shoot--they will also teach you about gun safety and how to work your particular model, i.e. loading and unloading, cocking, safeties, aiming, etc. I can’t stress this last point enough--some automatics are complex--remember, you want to be able to carry this thing easily and inconspicuously, and draw it without searching around for it in your purse or bag or catching it on your clothes. If you ever have to draw on someone for real, it won’t be like on TV, and it won’t be like at the range. It will be dark, you will be scared (hey that’s OK--I would be too!), you might be tired or have had a couple of drinks, and now is not the time to be wondering where you put the damn thing or how to aim and shoot.

Finally, I want to emphasize that you stay “legal.” Also practice, practice, and practice some more. And don’t let the fact that you are carrying a gun make you overconfident. Having a gun doesn’t instantly make you a “badass.” Don’t “wave it around,” or show it to everyone at the club and don’t suddenly start going into places you used to avoid. The reason you bought one is to possibly save your life. Never forget that. You are still the same sensible person you were before. You still want to avoid getting into a life-or-death situation if you can. But as we all know, sometimes it can’t be avoided. That’s what you will be prepared for.

[crossingoceans]

Really good post man! And you're totally right about this.

BTW what's your opinion on carrying guns for self defense?

[DSL]

Well i never had any real hard lessons in street fighting, self defence
that is which is one of the reasons i carry a handgun.
i do have a license to carry a ( class A large capacity for All Lawful Purposes )
which means i can carry it any where execpt bank, post office, police station,
fire dept., anywhere else is fine. if i am approached or harassed in any way all i need to do is just reveal it, like pull it out then put it back that should
make them think twice, i only have just one handgun one is enough.

[johndowe]

Originally Posted by Icekiller

Really good post man! And you're totally right about this.

BTW what's your opinion on carrying guns for self defense?

Hi there.

The problem with guns and those who carry them is, that first and foremost, shooting a target is very easy, shooting another human beeing is very hard, even shooting an animal is hard the first time when hunting.

If you are carying a gun, if you pull it out you have to be ready to use it, because most of the slime you will have to pull it out on know that a "normal" person will find it VERY hard to shoot someone.

Which brings me to the second thing, if you pull your gun and you back down you place yourself at even greater risk of getting hurt, and even beeing taken down and shot with your OWN gun.

And third it takes 2 of 3 things to shoot someone (for the first time anyway):

- Alot of stupidity, and disregard for human life.

- Alot of fear for your life and hatred of your opponent.

- And the ability to override your sence of wrong when you are about to squeeze the trigger.

It takes a realy disgusting person to kill someone for the only reason of wanting others to fear him, and such a person would deserve to be killed himself to prothect others from him, but doing so would place you in the same path as he was.

And killing someone is only the begining, you HAVE to live with it for the rest of your life, that and the fact that if he was part of a gang, the others will likely come after you, and then you have to kill them or they kill you, you have to remember that while they ARE cowards, they have been embolden by being part of the gang and the "safety in numbers" it generates, so they WILL come after you.

And the cops aren't much help either, they will treat you as a suspect, and even if they know that you acted in self defence, they cannot do anything to help because of A) They are afraid of the gangs, and B) They are out gunned by the gangs And C) The law is too soft and criminals are not rehabilitated, and the death penalty is alnost never envoqued, and when it is they get stay of execution, after stay of execution, which there should only be 1 or 2 permited afterwards, they would be dis-regarded.

So where are those super heroes when you need them?

JohnDowe.

[tslust]

John makes some good points. I haven't had to pull my pistol on anyone, but if I had to, I would and I'd use it. My concealed carry instructor told us, "Deadly force must be used only as a last resort." and "This is the most important class you'll ever take. After today, you'll have the power of life and death in your hands and the responsibility not to use it."

Originally Posted by tslust

My concealed carry instructor told us, "Deadly force must be used only as a last resort." and "This is the most important class you'll ever take. After today, you'll have the power of life and death in your hands and the responsibility not to use it."

Hopefully this point was obvious in my original post. But it is still worth repeating. The whole idea of having a gun is as a last resort to save your life.

Also, I'm glad to see that you carry responsibly and have had instruction.

Be safe out there!

[DSL]

Oh yes
i forgot i do use pepper spray for defence also, i cannot use stunguns, the law says no way! stunguns are outlawed in our state.
strange law we have here on guns they are okey to have and stunguns are not,but with some people, pepper spray has no effect on them i herd
which is why i carry either one of them and both holstered.
if i have too i will just cross the street to avoid confrontations in the wee morning hours, but they are probably more afraid of me then i am of them
i worry more when they walk in groups too like 4 am in the morning going to work.

Originally Posted by johndowe

So where are those super heroes when you need them?

Well, that would be me. But you can't find a telephone booth to change in these days!

Seriously, one of my other main points was that if you have any moral or ethical issues with carrying or using a handgun--Don't do it! Learn some basic self defense "moves." Know your surroundings. Travel in groups. Keep your cell phone handy. etc.

We could discuss whether or not the world would be better off without guns but the fact is they are out there and are one option for self defense. Especially if one is small or outnumbered. Your attacker may likely have a gun. I believe that we all have the right to self defense. As I said "No one should have to live in fear. Period."

Someone asked me for recommendations. Here are two:

The first is a "Smith & Wesson" Model 19 .357 Magnum. But you don't want to load it with "magnums" until you are a more experienced shooter. Try a ".38 Special" hollowpoint instead. Notice the grips.

The second is a "Beretta" Model 92 9mm. Again you can use hollowpoints for self-defense. I used to own one and taught my "ex" to shoot with it. FYI - she was about 5'5" and 125-130.

I couldn't help but include the last picture. Clint definitely has the "biggest"! LOL! Can you spot the "subliminal message"? It's even pointing straight UP!

[DSL]

I got a 357 magnum just like the model 19 you posted and i would recommend
the model 19 too. i use 357 shotshells for defense. also another good gun
is a 380 auto its like the 9m/m too but smaller and lighter and hardly any kick its also like a ladies auto too.
if this gun is for a lady then i would recommend the glock 380 auto.

Originally Posted by aw9725

Someone asked me for recommendations. Here are two:

The first is a "Smith & Wesson" Model 19 .357 Magnum. But you don't want to load it with "magnums" until you are a more experienced shooter. Try a ".38 Special" hollowpoint instead. Notice the grips.

The second is a "Beretta" Model 92 9mm. Again you can use hollowpoints for self-defense. I used to own one and taught my "ex" to shoot with it. FYI - she was about 5'5" and 125-130.

I couldn't help but include the last picture. Clint definitely has the "biggest"! LOL! Can you spot the "subliminal message"? It's even pointing straight UP!

[suebone]

My sis and I each have a beretta 9mm. We went to the range the other day .I out shot her.What a sight we were.
But I carry my pepper spray more often than the gun,don't need some crazy taking it. sue b
(short & sweet)

[The Conquistador]

Knives also make for good defense weapons if you are unable to carry a firearm for what ever reason. The Democratic Peoples Republic of Kalifornia prohibits me from carrying a firearm on my person, so I carry cold steel. It is a blade I made from 5160 and 4140.

Originally Posted by DSL

I got a 357 magnum just like the model 19 you posted and i would recommend
the model 19 too. i use 357 shotshells for defense. also another good gun
is a 380 auto its like the 9m/m too but smaller and lighter and hardly any kick its also like a ladies auto too.
if this gun is for a lady then i would recommend the glock 380 auto.

DSL,

I went to S&W's site today and found that they quit making the "Model 19." There is a new Model "386" that has a seven shot cylinder. I've never fired one but it looks pretty good. See pic...

Bad news MSRP = $1,074!

Also like your suggestion of the .380. Good choice. You can get a Walther PPK in this caliber. "Bond, James Bond..."

[nino198610]

Originally Posted by johndowe

Hi there.

The problem with guns and those who carry them is, that first and foremost, shooting a target is very easy, shooting another human beeing is very hard, even shooting an animal is hard the first time when hunting.

If you are carying a gun, if you pull it out you have to be ready to use it, because most of the slime you will have to pull it out on know that a "normal" person will find it VERY hard to shoot someone.

Which brings me to the second thing, if you pull your gun and you back down you place yourself at even greater risk of getting hurt, and even beeing taken down and shot with your OWN gun.

And third it takes 2 of 3 things to shoot someone (for the first time anyway):

- Alot of stupidity, and disregard for human life.

- Alot of fear for your life and hatred of your opponent.

- And the ability to override your sence of wrong when you are about to squeeze the trigger.

It takes a realy disgusting person to kill someone for the only reason of wanting others to fear him, and such a person would deserve to be killed himself to prothect others from him, but doing so would place you in the same path as he was.

And killing someone is only the begining, you HAVE to live with it for the rest of your life, that and the fact that if he was part of a gang, the others will likely come after you, and then you have to kill them or they kill you, you have to remember that while they ARE cowards, they have been embolden by being part of the gang and the "safety in numbers" it generates, so they WILL come after you.

And the cops aren't much help either, they will treat you as a suspect, and even if they know that you acted in self defence, they cannot do anything to help because of A) They are afraid of the gangs, and B) They are out gunned by the gangs And C) The law is too soft and criminals are not rehabilitated, and the death penalty is alnost never envoqued, and when it is they get stay of execution, after stay of execution, which there should only be 1 or 2 permited afterwards, they would be dis-regarded.

So where are those super heroes when you need them?

JohnDowe.

quoto al 100%

Originally Posted by Icekiller

Really good post man! And you're totally right about this.

Thanks Icekiller! Glad you liked it. Yes. I think carrying a gun can be an effective means of self defense. Just remember to "stay legal," get training from a qualified instructor, handle your gun responsibly, and never forget that it should always be your "last resort."