Barack Obama

[TracyCoxx]

Carol Browner, global warming "czar" - was part of Socialist International, a group for "global governance"

Originally Posted by randolph

Doesn't sound like a "socialist" to me.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ocialist-ties/
"Until last week, Carol M. Browner, President-elect Barack Obama's pick as global warming czar, was listed as one of 14 leaders of a socialist group's Commission for a Sustainable World Society, which calls for "global governance" and says rich countries must shrink their economies to address climate change."

[TracyCoxx]

Randolph, this information was very easy to find and very easy for you to confirm if you looked. Why are you going out of your way to find information about these people that doesn't happen to mention their communist and/or revolutionary ideas?

And seriously, why does Obama surround himself with communists, revolutionaries and world society types? Why do his supporters still claim "oh that may be what the people around him think, but Obama isn't that way". Wake up people!

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Randolph, this information was very easy to find and very easy for you to confirm if you looked. Why are you going out of your way to find information about these people that doesn't happen to mention their communist and/or revolutionary ideas?

And seriously, why does Obama surround himself with communists, revolutionaries and world society types? Why do his supporters still claim "oh that may be what the people around him think, but Obama isn't that way". Wake up people!

Its very easy to label people, but what does it mean? I chose excerpts from biographies from Wikipedia that focused on what people do, not what some conservatives accuse them of being. Obama is choosing people based on their performance working in our society. Labeling someone a "communist" is absurd, communism is dead. Like it or not, this country is socialist, that is what the citizens want. All democratic countries are basically socialistic.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Its very easy to label people, but what does it mean? I chose excerpts from biographies from Wikipedia that focused on what people do, not what some conservatives accuse them of being. Obama is choosing people based on their performance working in our society.

Which excerpt that I posted about these people was from what a conservative accused them of being? I quoted Van Jones own words. I quoted John Holdren's writings. And stated the fact that Carol Browner was a leader of a socialist group. These are facts, not accusations from some conservative.

Originally Posted by randolph

Labeling someone a "communist" is absurd, communism is dead. Like it or not, this country is socialist, that is what the citizens want. All democratic countries are basically socialistic.

Absurd or not, that is what Van Jones said. And I highly doubt the citizens want this country to be socialist.

Originally Posted by randolph

I grew up as a Republican and I still believe in fiscal conservatism(aka, Eisenhower).

I'm glad you're not one of those who want a socialist country. As a fiscal conservative, I'm sure you are aware that socialism with the quality of life Americans expect is simply unsustainable. This should now be abundantly clear due to BO's policies to all except people like Jen. I think you'll see in 2010 than Americans most definitely do not want socialism. They are projecting that democrats will lose more than 20 seats in the senate. BO was wise not to get into any details when he was campaigning. Just stick to hope and change. Don't tell them that his goal is nothing less than the end of America as we know it.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Which excerpt that I posted about these people was from what a conservative accused them of being? I quoted Van Jones own words. I quoted John Holdren's writings. And stated the fact that Carol Browner was a leader of a socialist group. These are facts, not accusations from some conservative.

Absurd or not, that is what Van Jones said. And I highly doubt the citizens want this country to be socialist.


I'm glad you're not one of those who want a socialist country. As a fiscal conservative, I'm sure you are aware that socialism with the quality of life Americans expect is simply unsustainable. This should now be abundantly clear due to BO's policies to all except people like Jen. I think you'll see in 2010 than Americans most definitely do not want socialism. They are projecting that democrats will lose more than 20 seats in the senate. BO was wise not to get into any details when he was campaigning. Just stick to hope and change. Don't tell them that his goal is nothing less than the end of America as we know it.

Again we are hung up on a label, "socialism". I view "socialism" as a means of equitably distributing the wealth being produced in a country. This can be done by taxes, laws and regulations. I don't believe in the government owning and controlling the means of production. England found out the hard way that it doesn't work. Conservatives seem to have an ego centered idea that the money they earn is entirely the result of their actions. They don't realize or accept that they are enabled to make money because they are in a society that cooperates and controls wealth making. Yes, we are now investing vast amounts of public funds in our private enterprise system. We are not socializing the country in the England sense. We are trying to save our "free enterprise system". Yes it is very scary indeed.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Again we are hung up on a label, "socialism".

Well that's what we humans do. We come up with a word to describe some concept or thing. That's how communication works.

Originally Posted by randolph

I view "socialism" as a means of equitably distributing the wealth being produced in a country. This can be done by taxes, laws and regulations.

That's not how America works. It leads to all kinds of problems that this country has avoided.

Originally Posted by randolph

Conservatives seem to have an ego centered idea that the money they earn is entirely the result of their actions. They don't realize or accept that they are enabled to make money because they are in a society that cooperates and controls wealth making.

It's not an ego centered idea. It's a system based on fairness. You put in the work and you will be rewarded. You don't work, you don't get rewarded. This is a system that encourages its people to become educated and to be a constructive member of society. With socialism, you put in the work and you get squat.

It is the ego of the poor who do not accept capitalism to think they deserve a piece of the pie despite the fact that they contribute little of value.

[randolph]

I like this quote by Nicolas Talib, who wrote "The Black Swan" an excellent review of how smart ass financial bankers have fucked up our system.

"Social Fairness. I spent 13 years fighting bankers bonuses (when nobody else did) and am currently crusading for clawbacks of past compensation as I have shown how regular taxpayers have been financing bonuses of millionaire bankers ("socialism for the losses, capitalism for the profits"). We are financing today those who got us here, with tax hikes on those who do the right thing, and larger tax break for those who blew us up. Companies who made mistakes and fragilized the system are being subsidized by the countercyclical ones who make it more robust."
I couldn't agree more.

[tslust]

Originally Posted by randolph

I chose excerpts from biographies from Wikipedia

Ahh, the all-knowing Wiki.

Don't worry, I like to use it too, but it's not always a reliable source.