I remember when

[Jenae LaTorque]

Originally Posted by sesame

Exactly! The majority of home computers are used for entertainment. They run Games, Internet (for email and Porn), play Video CD, DVD and music. I think I have covered all the general uses... Have I not?

Programming, Graphics, Web designing, Video & music editing ... are for boring Pros.

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Nope, you forgot eBaying. Almost everyone I know with a computer uses it to shop and/or sell on eBay. And quite a few use if for other shopping as well. But that may just be because we all live out here in the boondocks of Wyoming.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Sesame, there is nothing that canot be done with ASM that can be done with other languages, but some things,fvery few things are better the way they are programmed now, like web pages with HTML, XML, Perl, Java, JavaScript, and laymen do not program operating systems, games, or any applications, programmers do, and they are geeks, personally i am a cpu tech and we too are geeks, and object programing is the problem with programming today, everybody is too lazy to put in the effort so they take the easy path of object programing, which is required to symplify web page design, but not to program games or any application that runs directly from the o.s. (like games, text editors, ETC.).

Assembler which is assembled (similar to compiled) to machine language which is the native tongue of the processor, no interpretors or code libraries are required to run it, almost, it does need the o.s. and all the drivers etc. and it is so much more versatile than any other language the only limits of ASM are the limits of the computer it is designed to run on, contrarily to other "evolved" languages, that supports ALMOST everything programmers need, or more precicely what the programers of the language tought the users of their language would need, but what if you want to include something that the designers of the language you are using didn't program any support for? What do you do? You wait for the next version of the language? You could, but in "C" you can program in ASM to make your missing routines, ASM who knew?

ASM is the ultimate programming language, but it is not for the faint of heart, the lazy or second rate programmers, it is for true programers that are willing to put in the effort, who know their computers, who understand how their computer works and how to make it sing instead of making it stutter like microsoft, and most softwre company today, LAZY, LAZY, LAZY.

Got carried away again.

JohnDowe.

[sesame]

Originally Posted by johndowe

Assembler which is assembled (similar to compiled) to machine language which is the native tongue of the processor, no interpretors or code libraries are required to run it, almost, it does need the o.s. and all the drivers etc. and it is so much more versatile than any other language the only limits of ASM are the limits of the computer it is designed to run on, contrarily to other "evolved" languages, that supports ALMOST everything programmers need, or more precicely what the programers of the language tought the users of their language would need, but what if you want to include something that the designers of the language you are using didn't program any support for? What do you do? You wait for the next version of the language? You could, but in "C" you can program in ASM to make your missing routines, ASM who knew?

ASM is the ultimate programming language, but it is not for the faint of heart, the lazy or second rate programmers, it is for true programers that are willing to put in the effort, who know their computers, who understand how their computer works and how to make it sing instead of making it stutter like microsoft, and most softwre company todayJohnDowe.

That was a very good answer.

But then, only a handful of geeks will have the privilege to work with computers, if they used only ASM. And even lesser will be the number of programmers willing to deal with ASM as the only language.

Consider the hazzard of bug fixing in ASM. And what Operating sys are you talking about? Obviously its not Windows or Linux? You must be thinking of DOS! And whats wrong with OOPs (object oriented prog)? Its such a versatile and dynamic concept created to deal with so many situations! Why dont you like it? You are paying too much attention to structure and stability.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Have you ever programmed in assembler?

There is no more hazzard in debuging in ASM than any other language, if anything it is easyer because of the 1:1 relationship from the source code to the program file, and there are ML (machine language) Monitors that are used to debug the code, and even program in ASM, a good example is "DEBUG" which is a ML Monitor, which IS still avaliable in my version of win xp sp2 upgraded to sp3+ unfortunately there are no assemblers for win xp & P4's+.

I do not hate object programing, as i said it is great in web page design, but in more involved programing it does make things easyer but it makes the gap between the programer and the processor that much grater which is not a good thing.

When i was in colege a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, or so it seems, i took a course in the basic language on a DEC PDP11 with DECWriter (printing) terminals, i programmed a little game i called "x-wing.bas", it was based on the final battle in Star Wars where Luke and the others go to destroy the Death Star, first there you had to destroy 20 tie fighters and then the Death Star, i programmed it not for everybody to see the listing and immidiately see how the program worked, i programmed it for the computer to "underatand" the program, most would call it spaghetti code, but it worked well and it did fit in the 8k of memory we had avaliable at the time, if i would have programmed like my teacher tought me, i never would have been able to fot it in the memory that i had, my point is i understood how the computer worked and i used it to my advantage and i did something that i shouldn't have been able to do with what i had, i used my brain and i did not rely on the language to do the work for me, i did the work and it paid off, so much so that i gave copies to some of my freinds, and later i saw it and two modifications, one was with Human against the Cylons and the other was about cops and robers, but the listing confirmed that it was my logics they only changed the text, they even left the 1 bug that i hadn't corrected when i gave them the copy of the game, i felt flattered that programing students would find my work worth keeping and worth the effort of modifying the text, while keeping MY logic intact.

If you know how to program in assembler, you can program in any other language all you need to know is the instructions and the syntax of the language and you're good to go, but it is a one way thing, if you can program in basic or pascal, you'll have to learn how to program in assembler, your knoledge of the other languages will help a but but no where near as much as assembler will help for other languages.

It is a sad thing that they have stopped teaching assembler to new programming students it would give them a much better understanding of the computers they are programming, and make them better programmers.

Structure and stability:

Stability is VERY important, do you like it when your computer crashes? While you were working on your report that was due in only a few hours? I don't think so.

In assembler there is no pre-established structure, you program it as you want, if you program well, you will reward yourself with easy to debug code, if you don't well good luck with the debugging, and mantaining of the code for future updates.

Also, if you made a sub routine in asm which you use frequently in that program and then later in the program you would only need the end part of that sub routine, in asm you just jump to that part of the subroutine and that's it, you don't have to make major modifications to the program or the subroutine, it is that simple.

If you want a code example ask me & i will specify 8086 or 6502 code.

JohnDowe.

[sesame]

Johndowe,
That was a nice speech on the goodness of ASM.
I did some programming in my childhood... during my Diploma.
That was quite some time ago. I started reading this ebook on extensive programming in ASM... then lost interest and gave up. Thats because nobody cared about an ASM programmer anymore. I did some sool stuff with Basic in those ancient times though.:D Then I Jumped to C and VB... Javascript, Actionscript... so on.

Reading your thoughts, I think I will give it another try; since you say that ASM is so fundamental for programming. The book is called:
The Art of Assembly.

I still remember small fragments of programming...
PUSH CS
MOV DX,80H
INT 10H
JZ GETHDB
JB BOOTUP and such like :D

[johndowe]

Hi there.

It is easyer to understand more complex concepts if you know the fundamentals.

And good luck with it.

You also can use DEBUG to do some thinkering in asm.

If you should find an assembler for pentium 4+ that works with XP+ let me know.

JohnDowe.

[sesame]

The DOS we use nowadays in Windows XP is not the same as it used to be. Its more like a servant of Windows. It's capabilities have been reduced, some commands have been excluded. But why do you think they have still kept DEBUG?

Can ASM cooperate with other softwares?