Baseball

[smc]

The wonderful Hockey thread has had a lot of baseball discussion of late. I suspect there are some members who want to find the excellent updates about matches without having to scroll through me, transjen, and shadows talking about the Red Sox and the Phillies. So, I'm starting this thread for baseball discussion.

I am a baseball fanatic. What I love about baseball the most is what those who "hate" baseball hate the most: its slowness. There's a reason baseball is called "America's pastime." It's not just because of how widely it was played in the 19th century, when it earned that name. It's also because you can pass a lot of time. Unlike clock sports, baseball unfolds at whatever pace a given game has. In between the action of a pitcher throwing the next pitch, for example, a real lover of baseball has the opportunity to speculate/imagine a nearly unlimited number of possibilities. What kind of pitch will he throw? is the batter swinging or taking? Is there a steal on? Should the batter bunt? Should he go for the fences? Is an opposite-field hit in order? Why is the left fielder shading to the right? Should the second baseman or shortstop take a throw to second? Etc. Etc. Etc.

My team is the Red Sox. I've been a rabid Sox fan all of my life. I go to as many games as possible at Fenway, and I rarely miss a game on the radio or TV if I'm not at the ballpark. I travel to other cities to see Sox games, and last season went to Sox games in Baltimore, New York, Cleveland, Toronto, Kansas City, and Oakland.

Let's have a fun and spirited discussion, just like we've been having about hockey.

Go Red Sox!!

[transjen]

UPDATE
A.Dawson made it in to the Baseball Hall of Fame today but poor Bert came ever so close missing the needed 75% by uneder 1%
And still no love for Ron Santo as the vet comittie put in Cards manger and an umpire
And just my opion but
PUT PETE ROSE IN THE HALL !!!!
Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Blyleven belongs, and so does Robbie Alomar, who missed today, too. And yes, Jen, you are absolutely right: put Pete Rose in the Hall!!!!

[transjen]

I believe this was Robbie's first ballot and it appears there is some kind snubbury towards first ballot trys so perhaps next year, Barry Larkin was snubbed also
update number 2
Randy Johnson just retired, The last 300 game winner for a long long time
:yes:Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Here's the latest from Red Sox Nation:

Sox picked up Adrian Beltre as the new starting 3rd baseman, which means Mike Lowell will be traded or platooned, Kevin Youkilis will stay at his Gold Glove position across the diamond, and Casey Kotchman will not become the starting 1st baseman.

With Jason Bay gone to the Mets, the Sox announced that Jacoby Ellsbury (or "Wonderboy," as I call him) will move to left field and newly acquired Mike Cameron will play center. Ellsbury was reportedly disappointed, but manager Terry Francona makes an excellent point: "The way we're constituted, with [Cameron's] long strides and Jacoby's first-step quickness, it seems that we're set up better that way." Left field is a tough position in Fenway, because you have to learn to read the wall.

[smc]

Randy Johnson just retired, The last 300 game winner for a long long time
:yes:Jerseygirl Jen

I'd like to have a "Big Unit" pitching to me ;)
but not (ugly) Randy Johnson.

[jdawg]

The Mariners are going to the playoffs this year! Seriously, I see nobody in the west challenging our team. We aren't even finished building the team yet either.


Randy Johnson was such a great pitcher. Him and Griffey will always be among my favorite players. Sad to see a great career come to an end.

[smc]

Maybe Tim Wakefield could be a 300-game winner. He's only got 111 to go, and if his back holds up he could throw the knuckleball for another 10 years!

[jdawg]

Beltre is ace defensively. He's had a real shitty time with injuries though and his offense never really picked up in Seattle. I read that he hated Safeco though which couldve been a reason for the lack of power.

[smc]

Beltre is ace defensively. He's had a real shitty time with injuries though and his offense never really picked up in Seattle. I read that he hated Safeco though which couldve been a reason for the lack of power.

Dave Roberts of stolen-base-against-the-Yankees-that-kept-the-Red-Sox-2004-season-alive fame said of Beltre to the Boston Globe yesterday: "Probably the best defensive player I ever played with. Not just third base, best defensive player, period."

A CORRECTION: I mentioned Casey Kotchman in my earlier Red Sox update. I forgot that he is being dealt to the Mariners (which would not have happened if Beltre had not been signed).

[jdawg]

You guys are getting Bill Hall plus the cash that we got from the Brewers and a minor leaguer. I like the trade for the Mariners as its a nice stop gap solution that could turn into something more. I'm guessing you guys are just trying to get rid of Kotchman and not really expecting much in return.

[smc]

I think I would put it differently: the Red Sox are trying to give Kotchman a chance to be closer to an everyday player (which could happen, eventually, with the Mariners but not in Boston). He was a loyal soldier and filled in nicely when Youk went down in '09. Plus, dealing Casey results in cash for the Beltre deal and keeps the Red Sox close to the luxury-tax threshold.

[ila]

I used to really like baseball. It was an interesting game, but now I rarely watch it because it does take so long to play. The length of time between pitches is interminable and it seems timeouts are too many and too frequent. At one time baseball was an exciting game to listen to on the radio, but now it's one long snorefest.

I realize that it's all about money because the longer it takes to play a game the more revenue is generated from sponsors to the tv stations, but it has killed my love of professional baseball.

[shadows]

I believe this was Robbie's first ballot and it appears there is some kind snubbury towards first ballot trys so perhaps next year, Barry Larkin was snubbed also
update number 2
Randy Johnson just retired, The last 300 game winner for a long long time
:yes:Jerseygirl Jen

I think Roy Halladay has a chance to become a 300 game winner, I really do. especially since he is on a really good team(*sigh* I'm gonna miss Doc on the Jays:() right now!

Wakefield(as smc mentioned) may get there, but I honestly don't see it happening. He has had a lot of injuries the past couple of seasons and I just don't see him keeping it up. Although he does have the advantage of being a knuckleball pitcher, which helps with longevity.

Jennifer, do you remember when Randy Johnson hit the bird with a pitch as he was throwing to home plate? The animal lovers wanted him to be charged, but how the hell was it his fault? The bird just happened to fly across as the ball was in motion! Sometimes I think they need to give their heads a shake.:no:

[smc]

Wakefield(as smc mentioned) may get there, but I honestly don't see it happening. He has had a lot of injuries the past couple of seasons and I just don't see him keeping it up. Although he does have the advantage of being a knuckleball pitcher, which helps with longevity.

Surely you must have realized I meant that in jest! :rolleyes:

[shadows]

Surely you must have realized I meant that in jest! :rolleyes:

Yep.;)

I just figured he was the closest Red Sox to the plateau, so what the heck!:lol:

[shadows]

I used to really like baseball. It was an interesting game, but now I rarely watch it because it does take so long to play. The length of time between pitches is interminable and it seems timeouts are too many and too frequent. At one time baseball was an exciting game to listen to on the radio, but now it's one long snorefest.

I realize that it's all about money because the longer it takes to play a game the more revenue is generated from sponsors to the tv stations, but it has killed my love of professional baseball.

The problem are players like A-Roid, Garcioparra, and Jeter(just to name a few) that take forever getting ready between pitches. Adjusting batting gloves(which Garcioparra was notorious for), kicking cleats, taking a deep breath, farting, scratching buttocks, adjusting cup, picking nose, ordering chinese food, belching, etc., etc..:eek:

[smc]

I used to really like baseball. It was an interesting game, but now I rarely watch it because it does take so long to play. The length of time between pitches is interminable and it seems timeouts are too many and too frequent. At one time baseball was an exciting game to listen to on the radio, but now it's one long snorefest.

I realize that it's all about money because the longer it takes to play a game the more revenue is generated from sponsors to the tv stations, but it has killed my love of professional baseball.

Ila, you make excellent points. While my initial post extolled the virtues of baseball's slowness, I don't want to be misconstrued: it has a natural slow pace that is fine, but the addition of more slowness through things like Fox deciding when the next half-inning can start because the commercials aren't over yet makes me want to scream! I would like to see the rules Major League Baseball has made about time between pitches actually enforced.

But even with the enhanced slowness, I still love the game.

[transjen]

The problem are players like A-Roid, Garcioparra, and Jeter(just to name a few) that take forever getting ready between pitches. Adjusting batting gloves(which Garcioparra was notorious for), kicking cleats, taking a deep breath, farting, scratching buttocks, adjusting cup, picking nose, ordering chinese food, belching, etc., etc..:eek:

True but that's all part of the game, What would you suggest a delay of game penalty like in football[NFL football]
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

[transjen]

I think Roy Halladay has a chance to become a 300 game winner, I really do. especially since he is on a really good team(*sigh* I'm gonna miss Doc on the Jays:() right now!


Jennifer, do you remember when Randy Johnson hit the bird with a pitch as he was throwing to home plate? The animal lovers wanted him to be charged, but how the hell was it his fault? The bird just happened to fly across as the ball was in motion! Sometimes I think they need to give their heads a shake.:no:As long as he wins 300 for the Phillies :yes:

I was never a Randy Johnson fan but you have to give him credit for his great career so i'll tip my cap to him and say he's proably the last 300 game winner as the teams now depend on the bullpen more and more and the 5 and 6 man rotation

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

I bet some catchers would like a penalty for farting while at the plate. One of the girls I used to coach in softball once told me that there was a girl on another team who farted every time she took a swing!

[transjen]

I bet some catchers would like a penalty for farting while at the plate. One of the girls I used to coach in softball once told me that there was a girl on another team who farted every time she took a swing!

:lol: :lol: Guess she was a crappy player
:lol:Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

True but that's all part of the game, What would you suggest a delay of game penalty like in football[NFL football]
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

No, but they should be fined. Some of those delays are beyond ridiculous.

[shadows]

I bet some catchers would like a penalty for farting while at the plate. One of the girls I used to coach in softball once told me that there was a girl on another team who farted every time she took a swing!

Maybe she was hoping for a passed ball due to passing wind.;):lol:

[jdawg]

I really don't mind the delays. They can be annoying, but every player has his own routine and you could really mess up a player by screwing with his routine. if I don't do certain things while watching a game and the Mariners lose, I blame myself. I could only imagine how a player would feel if his routine was fined.

[smc]

I really don't mind the delays. They can be annoying, but every player has his own routine and you could really mess up a player by screwing with his routine. if I don't do certain things while watching a game and the Mariners lose, I blame myself. I could only imagine how a player would feel if his routine was fined.

I must say, my favorite thing about watching a Mariners game is hearing the trains in the background. It always gives me a warm feeling, as if baseball were being played in "olden" times.

[dauls]

The wonderful Hockey thread has had a lot of baseball discussion of late. I suspect there are some members who want to find the excellent updates about matches without having to scroll through me, transjen, and shadows talking about the Red Sox and the Phillies. So, I'm starting this thread for baseball discussion.

I am a baseball fanatic. What I love about baseball the most is what those who "hate" baseball hate the most: its slowness. There's a reason baseball is called "America's pastime." It's not just because of how widely it was played in the 19th century, when it earned that name. It's also because you can pass a lot of time. Unlike clock sports, baseball unfolds at whatever pace a given game has. In between the action of a pitcher throwing the next pitch, for example, a real lover of baseball has the opportunity to speculate/imagine a nearly unlimited number of possibilities. What kind of pitch will he throw? is the batter swinging or taking? Is there a steal on? Should the batter bunt? Should he go for the fences? Is an opposite-field hit in order? Why is the left fielder shading to the right? Should the second baseman or shortstop take a throw to second? Etc. Etc. Etc.

My team is the Red Sox. I've been a rabid Sox fan all of my life. I go to as many games as possible at Fenway, and I rarely miss a game on the radio or TV if I'm not at the ballpark. I travel to other cities to see Sox games, and last season went to Sox games in Baltimore, New York, Cleveland, Toronto, Kansas City, and Oakland.

Let's have a fun and spirited discussion, just like we've been having about hockey.

Go Red Sox!!

smc, you started a baseball thread and in little over 4 hours it's already up to 26 posts.

As a fan of another game of slowness, cricket, it's clear I was always going to be an instant convert to baseball. I just had to learn the rules and jargon of the game. And then try to pick up the various strategies and oddities... why/when attempt to steal, why would a batter intentionally get out (the sac fly), that a pitcher can only enter the game for one batter and possibly only one pitch, when to bunt, etc.

But if you think baseball has a nice slow pace, try Test Match Cricket (the five day version of the game). You play roughly 6 hours per day, and after five days you can still have a drawn match. Sometimes, for one team, holding on for the draw actually feels like a win.

England clung on for the draw in the 1st Test Match against South Africa just before Xmas, and today they are aiming to do it again in the 3rd Test. Fortunately we thrashed the South Africans in the 2nd Test.

In recent years to speed cricket up a bit, a new version of the game was invented, called Twenty20, when batting each team faces a maximum of 120 deliveries. The game should only last approx 3 to 3.5 hours, suitable for fans to watch on a summer evening after work.


Note: Less than 100 days until the start of the 2010 regular season.:)

[smc]

But if you think baseball has a nice slow pace, try Test Match Cricket (the five day version of the game). You play roughly 6 hours per day, and after five days you can still have a drawn match. Sometimes, for one team, holding on for the draw actually feels like a win.

Hey, dauls, thanks for your post. I've actually played cricket. I went to college at a very, very small liberal arts school that happens to be just across the street from the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. A high school acquaintance was at the Academy concurrently, so we kept in touch. There was a group of "exchange students" there who were junior officers in the Royal Navy, and they were looking to organize some cricket matches. They were having a very hard time getting U.S. Navy guys interested, so my friend came by and asked me -- he knew I am a big fan of baseball -- whether I wanted to learn and play. I said yes, enthusiastically, and helped find others until we were able to organize a first match over a weekend about a month later. We played Test and determined that we'd start on Saturday, play on Sunday as well, and at the end we'd decide whether to continue if the match "technically" wasn't yet over.

It was a great time. And we did it a few more times over the year.

An important point about "slowness": a large part of cricket's slowness is actually "duration." Breaks for lunch, tea, drinks ... those all make the game take longer. No one was slowing the match while waiting for some TV ad to be completed.

[dauls]

Hey, dauls, thanks for your post. I've actually played cricket...

An important point about "slowness": a large part of cricket's slowness is actually "duration." Breaks for lunch, tea, drinks ... those all make the game take longer. No one was slowing the match while waiting for some TV ad to be completed.

Funny to hear you've played cricket, that's not something I hear too many Americans saying they've done.

TV imposing on the game is one thing that appears to be different in England compared with North America. Over here TV doesn't dictate the play of the game and in cricket the TV company has to sneak advert breaks in at the change of ends between the overs bowled or during mid-session drinks breaks.

In North America play seems to stop when TV needs it to and won't restart until the ad break has finished.

Quite often a hurried return to the cricket happens just after the ball has been bowled, but then there is plenty of time before the next ball to show a replay of the delivery you just missed.


The 3rd Test Match has just finished and England have clung on for the draw again. We were down to our last wicket for the final 17 balls.

This draw happened in almost an identical manner to the 1st Test where England's last wicket survived for the final 19 balls.

The South Africans must be gutted that they have drawn two matches that they were only one wicket (out) away from winning the game.

So that leaves England 1-0 up in the Series with only one Test Match to go. So England can't lose the Series now, but a Series win away in South Africa will be a fantastic achievement for England.

[smc]

Major League Baseball has announced that Commissioner Bud Selig is going to in a week or so with the Special Committee for On-Field Matters, which has some veteran managers (Tony La Russa, Jim Leyland, Mike Scioscia, and Joe Torre), GMs, club owners, and team presidents. Among the topics are schedules, playoff formats, umpiring, game pace, and instant replay.

I'm hoping they address -- and fix -- the ridiculous postseason schedule, with all the wasted open dates.

[dauls]

Major League Baseball has announced that Commissioner Bud Selig is going to in a week or so with the Special Committee for On-Field Matters, which has some veteran managers (Tony La Russa, Jim Leyland, Mike Scioscia, and Joe Torre), GMs, club owners, and team presidents. Among the topics are schedules, playoff formats, umpiring, game pace, and instant replay.

I'm hoping they address -- and fix -- the ridiculous postseason schedule, with all the wasted open dates.

Those wasted open dates are surely down to the TV schedules. So I doubt your wish will come true.

The last three years has seen Game 1 of the World Series moved back to Wednesdays to boost sagging ratings. This avoids having a game on poorly watched Friday nights, and means play on both days of the weekend. I suppose the only TV schedule nightmare for comes on Monday when a Game 5 goes head-to-head with Monday Night Football.

In the earlier postseason rounds the teams wanted the extra days off for travel. But surely playing baseball in November can't be right.

[smc]

Those wasted open dates are surely down to the TV schedules. So I doubt your wish will come true.

The last three years has seen Game 1 of the World Series moved back to Wednesdays to boost sagging ratings. This avoids having a game on poorly watched Friday nights, and means play on both days of the weekend. I suppose the only TV schedule nightmare for comes on Monday when a Game 5 goes head-to-head with Monday Night Football.

In the earlier postseason rounds the teams wanted the extra days off for travel. But surely playing baseball in November can't be right.

You are wise to doubt that the postseason schedules will be fixed, but I think the reason for some optimism is that players and managers -- without exception -- have complained. Usually, there are a few players and managers who "make a stink" about something, and everyone else has "no comment." But not on this issue. So maybe change will come, TV sponsors be damned!

[ila]

.....England clung on for the draw in the 1st Test Match against South Africa just before Xmas, and today they are aiming to do it again in the 3rd Test. Fortunately we thrashed the South Africans in the 2nd Test.

I rarely follow cricket, but am I right to think that it was only a few years ago that India was a dominant force in international cricket play?

[Talvenada]

True but that's all part of the game, What would you suggest a delay of game penalty like in football[NFL football]
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen


JEN:

What team do you follow? Phillies, Yankees, Mets, other or none?


TAL

[transjen]

PHILLIES!!!!!
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[Talvenada]

PHILLIES!!!!!
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen


JEN:

I'm from Philly and I cover The Phillies on a fairly new national blog @ http://isportsweb.com/ under MLB, baseball, NL East & Phillies. That's why I asked. I try to write from the perspective of a baseball man (not me), and what management is thinking in the decision-making process.

TAL

[shadows]

You are wise to doubt that the postseason schedules will be fixed, but I think the reason for some optimism is that players and managers -- without exception -- have complained. Usually, there are a few players and managers who "make a stink" about something, and everyone else has "no comment." But not on this issue. So maybe change will come, TV sponsors be damned!

I hope that will be the case. Playing baseball into November(the last game the previous season was on November 4th to be exact) is ridiculous.:rolleyes:

[dauls]

I rarely follow cricket, but am I right to think that it was only a few years ago that India was a dominant force in international cricket play?

Currently India are the #1 team in Test Cricket, they made it to #1 for the first time in December 2009. Before that South Africa were briefly #1 from Aug '09 to Dec '09.

This ranking system only started in June 2003 and for the first 6 years 2 months Australia were #1.

England are only #5, and it will take a couple of years before they have a chance of challenging for the #1 spot. However their Ashes Series win last summer and current 1-0 series lead after the 3rd of a 4 Test Match Series in South Africa will help improve England's ranking.

As for One Day International Cricket I those damn Aussies are still #1 in the World. India are #2 and again England are #5.

:eek:One cricket fact to surprise you is that before England played Australia in the first official Test Match in 1877, the first international cricket match took place 25th-27th Sept. 1844 in Bloomingdale Park, Manhattan, New York between the USA and Canada.

The Canadians won the game. 10,000+ people watched it and an estimated $100,000 was bet on the match. Canada also won both a home and an away game against the USA in 1845.

Before the American Civil War cricket was by far the biggest sport in the USA. Cricket effectively became a victim of that war.
Without the Civil War, would baseball be where it is today?

[Hedonistman]

I really have no clue if cricket was ever played much in the US,, but I seriously hope it wasn't, lol. Some sports should be all nationalistic.. Cricket sure fits for Brits,,,, and Baseball is as Yankee as it gets.... I just can't see any stiff upper lip Brit chewing and spittin' tobaceee....and what a mess it'd make on those fine white uniforms.....

[smc]

I see that the Texas Rangers have hired former Red Sox catcher Bill Hasselman to be a manager in the minor leagues. It cannot be overstated: catchers make excellent managers!

[transjen]

Perhaps this is a little off topic, but i rember a tv show that Stared Johnny Beach and a bunch of young little league players and a guy dressed like a chicken the show aired back in the early 80s and i rember watching it when i was 5 or 6 but i can't rember what it was called anyone else rember this show and no it was not THIS WEEK IN BASEBALL that was a whole differnt show
:confused: Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Perhaps this is a little off topic, but i rember a tv show that Stared Johnny Beach and a bunch of young little league players and a guy dressed like a chicken the show aired back in the early 80s and i rember watching it when i was 5 or 6 but i can't rember what it was called anyone else rember this show and no it was not THIS WEEK IN BASEBALL that was a whole differnt show
:confused: Jerseygirl Jen

Hey, Jen -- It was "The Baseball Bunch" and it was the San Diego Chicken along with Johnny Bench. Here's a link to the Wikipedia page to help you take a more focused trip down memory lane:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baseball_Bunch

[transjen]

Thanks, That's the show wonder if youtube has any clips or better yet a full episode, I had no idea the chicken suit guy was the San Diego chicken i just rembered the annoying chicken suit guy
:hug: Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Thanks, That's the show wonder if youtube has any clips or better yet a full episode, I had no idea the chicken suit guy was the San Diego chicken i just rembered the annoying chicken suit guy
:hug: Jerseygirl Jen

Annoying, yes! But did you know that The Sporting News named the San Diego Chicken as one of the 100 most powerful "people" in sports for the 20th century?!

Jen, put "San Diego Chicken" in a YouTube search and your wish will be fulfilled, many times over.

[shadows]

Annoying, yes! But did you know that The Sporting News named the San Diego Chicken as one of the 100 most powerful "people" in sports for the 20th century?!

Jen, put "San Diego Chicken" in a YouTube search and your wish will be fulfilled, many times over.

Be careful what you wish for, Jen.;):lol:

[smc]

The big news in the baseball world is Mark McGwire's admission that he used steroids, including in 1998 when he broke the MLB single-season home run record.

Anyone with a functioning brain and functioning eyes and even the most cursory knowledge of what steroids can do to a man's physiology already knew that McGwire was a user.

McGwire is doing an interview tonight with Bob Costas to discuss his admission. It will be broadcast on MLB Network at 7 p.m. ET and simulcast at MLB.com.

I hear Barry Bonds is planning to have his head shrunk and then do a similar interview in which he will obfuscate about every steroids-related question. (Okay, I made that last part up.)

[shadows]

It is good that he finally admitted what we all knew. Anyone that thought he was clean should take their head out of the sand and look around. It was not called the "Steroid Era" for nothing. We would be knocked off our feet if we ever found out the real amount of users during that "era".:eek:

Barry Bonds? He is a jackass, as is Clemens. They are not fooling anyone! The reason I dislike the two of them, and don't mind McGuire is the fact that Big Mac at least treated the fans like people and not minor annoyances(when they played).

I agree with the big-head syndrome of Bonds. Looking at video/pictures of him from his Pittsburgh days to the same from his San Francisco days is like looking at night and day! Totally different! His head got a least 3x bigger! He used to be a contact hitter who would steal a lot of bases and hit a few home runs. Then he magically became a power hitter that could hit 77 home runs? Sorry, but that record is one that actually deserves an asterisk beside it.:no:

[smc]

It is good that he finally admitted what we all knew. Anyone that thought he was clean should take their head out of the sand and look around. It was not called the "Steroid Era" for nothing. We would be knocked off our feet if we ever found out the real amount of users during that "era".:eek:

Barry Bonds? He is a jackass, as is Clemens. They are not fooling anyone! The reason I dislike the two of them, and don't mind McGuire is the fact that Big Mac at least treated the fans like people and not minor annoyances(when they played).

I agree with the big-head syndrome of Bonds. Looking at video/pictures of him from his Pittsburgh days to the same from his San Francisco days is like looking at night and day! Totally different! His head got a least 3x bigger! He used to be a contact hitter who would steal a lot of bases and hit a few home runs. Then he magically became a power hitter that could hit 77 home runs? Sorry, but that record is one that actually deserves an asterisk beside it.:no:

I'm watching the Mark McGwire interview right now on MLB Network and I must admit that as much as I despise steroid use and how it has affected baseball, I feel a bit of sympathy for him. Never for Bonds or Clemens!

[shadows]

I'm watching the Mark McGwire interview right now on MLB Network and I must admit that as much as I despise steroid use and how it has affected baseball, I feel a bit of sympathy for him. Never for Bonds or Clemens!

I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who feels that way. Thanks!:)

[dauls]

I left this 'off-topic' post on the hockey thread about a month ago...
I'm surprised Mark McGwire gets less flak than Barry Bonds. McGwire refused to discuss the issue at the Congressional hearing, repeating "I'm not here to discuss the past," and "I will be considered guilty no matter what I say."

At least this speculation does seem to be having an affect on McGwire's election to the Hall of Fame, his percentage at the ballot fell below 25% in 2009.

After he broke the home run record in 1998, I remember reading a story which mentioned his taking steroids (in a UK paper, I remember it because baseball stories are so rare in our papers, the comments may have evolved from the US media).
I couldn't believe it was out there and he could still play. Then I found out that baseball didn't have a drug testing policy, amazing when you think they've been testing NFL players, track & field athletes and cyclists for over 20 years.


Unfortunately I never kept that newspaper clipping.:frown:
The baseball show on British TV only picked on Bonds and a few others, but not McGwire.
And I never read anything else about McGwire and steroids, even though he looked like 'Arnie's big brother' at the end of his career.

So I begun to think that maybe that newspaper article was a figment of my imagination. Thanks for posting this, at least I now know I'm not totally mad.

OK McGwire may have presented himself as a nicer person than Bonds, but the bottom line is he was a drugs cheat. He was a role model to thousands of kids, but he was another one of the potential catalysts for them to be 'juiced' by unscrupulous coaches. Coaches who saw great potential in a youngster, but knew steroids could be used to make the difference and help the youngster stand out from the others.

Drugs need to be kept out of sport for the sake of the under 18s. Once you are an adult you can do what you want to yourself, and if you get caught, accept your punishment and shut the f:censored:ck up.

As you've probably guessed by now, I have no sympathy for McGwire. I put him in the same group as Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod, Clemens, Jos? Canseco, etc. You're either clean or a cheat.

It'd be nice if we could go back to the good old days, with Roger Maris' 61 and Hank Aaron's 755 as the home run records. Shame we can't.

It's also a shame that Ken Griffey Jr. has missed so much of is career through injury, and he won't be able to stop cheating A-Rod from setting the career home run record. Hopefully Albert Pujols can carry on for long enough to catch A-Rod and pass him.

[shadows]

It is nice to read an opposing point of view(regarding McGuire, as I agree that drugs in sports are crap). I don't know how I missed your original post, so I'm glad that you posted it again.

Speaking of Sosa, besides the stigma of being a steroid user, he is now being labelled as a "Michael Jackson Wannabe" as he had a picture taken of him recently where he looked very pale(I think I saw it at espn.com). Some people were accusing him of tying to get rid of his Latino traits and trying to become caucasian. I am not sure how true this story is since all I saw was that one article about it. Did you hear about this at all, dauls?:eek:

[dauls]

It is nice to read an opposing point of view(regarding McGuire, as I agree that drugs in sports are crap). I don't know how I missed your original post, so I'm glad that you posted it again.

Speaking of Sosa, besides the stigma of being a steroid user, he is now being labelled as a "Michael Jackson Wannabe" as he had a picture taken of him recently where he looked very pale(I think I saw it at espn.com). Some people were accusing him of tying to get rid of his Latino traits and trying to become caucasian. I am not sure how true this story is since all I saw was that one article about it. Did you hear about this at all, dauls?:eek:

No. That Sammy Sosa story is a new one to me. Apart from the steroid links I haven't heard a thing about him since he last played in 2007.

:frown: Sosa also briefly played alongside another member of the 500 HR Club who posted a positive test for steroids: Rafael Palmeiro.

[shadows]

No. That Sammy Sosa story is a new one to me. Apart from the steroid links I haven't heard a thing about him since he last played in 2007.

:frown: Sosa also briefly played alongside another member of the 500 HR Club who posted a positive test for steroids: Rafael Palmeiro.

I think that whole Texas Rangers team back then was pretty bad with regards to steroids. Wasn't A-Roid on that team too?;)

I think if you google 'sammy sosa white' and then click on 'Images' you will see the pictures I was talking about.

Of course, one of the places it is on is tmz.com, and we all know that is the place to get the truth.;):lol:

[smc]

OK McGwire may have presented himself as a nicer person than Bonds, but the bottom line is he was a drugs cheat. He was a role model to thousands of kids, but he was another one of the potential catalysts for them to be 'juiced' by unscrupulous coaches. Coaches who saw great potential in a youngster, but knew steroids could be used to make the difference and help the youngster stand out from the others.

Drugs need to be kept out of sport for the sake of the under 18s. Once you are an adult you can do what you want to yourself, and if you get caught, accept your punishment and shut the f:censored:ck up.

As you've probably guessed by now, I have no sympathy for McGwire. I put him in the same group as Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod, Clemens, Jos? Canseco, etc. You're either clean or a cheat.

... Hopefully Albert Pujols can carry on for long enough to catch A-Rod and pass him.

After reading dauls' post, I feel I must clarify my earlier post about watching the McGwire interview. I wrote my initial impressions.

I want to make a few points.

1. Performance-enhancing drugs have no place whatsoever in sport. Their use is cheating, and -- as dauls points out -- dangerous for kids.

2. Right or wrong, none of these drugs were specifically banned in baseball at the time the so-called "steroid era" began.

3. I believe Mark McGwire and people like Andy Pettite when they say that they took these drugs to help recover from injuries. This was not the case for people like Bonds or Clemens or A-Rod. This does not eliminate point #1, above.

4. I think all the records set during the steroid era should at least have an asterisk (*) that indicates they are suspect.

5. Mark McGwire failed in his interview to state unequivocally that his steroids, taken for injuries, essentially increased his batting power (if not his "god-given skill" of hand-to-eye coordination or his bat speed, which is a function of swinging skill more than strength). He hinted that he would have hit just as many home runs without steroids. Whether that is or not, his failure to own up to even the possibility greatly diminishes his "confession."

There is a lot more I could write, but I will leave it at that, except to reiterate that steroids and HGH are wrong for baseball: they are dangerous, and they represent cheating. On that there can be no equivocation.

[shadows]

Here is another chapter to that story. Jose Canseco(who basically got the whole ball rolling with his book 'Juiced', says that McGuire and La Russa are not telling the whole truth. Here is the article from tsn.ca.

-----------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------

CANSECO SAYS MCGWIRE, LA RUSSA NOT TELLING THE TRUTH

A day after Mark McGwire admitted to using steroids, one former teammate believes that McGwire hasn't told the entire truth.

Former 'Bash Brother' Jose Canseco, whose 2005 book 'Juiced' opened up the culture of steriods at the time, was not to pleased with some things that McGwire said on Monday, specifically when McGwire said that he and Canseco never talked about steroids, let alone injected each other, which Canseco claimed in the book.

"I've got no problems with a few of the things he's saying, but again, it's ironic and strange that Mark McGwire denies that I injected him with steroids. He's calling me a liar again," Canseco said on ESPN 1000 radio. "I've defended Mark, I've said a lot of good things about him, but I can't believe he just called me a liar.

"There is something very strange going on here, and I'm wondering what it is. I even polygraphed that subject matter, that I injected him, and passed it completely. So I want to challenge him on national TV to a polygraph examination. I want to see him call me a liar under a polygraph examination."

Canseco also took a shot at current St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, who managed McGwire in St. Louis and both McGwire and Canseco in Oakland, for his public statement that he didn't know that McGwire had used steroids until McGwire called him early on Monday.

"That's a blatant lie," Canseco said. "Tony La Russa was quoted as saying that I was using steroids back then, and I was talking about it in the clubhouse, openly. That's a blatant lie.

"There are some things here that are so ridiculous, and so disrespectful for the public and the media to believe. I just can't believe it. I'm in total shock. These guys remind me of politicians that go up and just lie to the public and expect to get elected."

Canseco, who told ESPN that he is still a big fan of McGwire, is tired of defending what he wrote in 'Juiced.'

"I'm tired of justifying what I've said," Canseco said. "I've polygraphed, I've proven that I'm 100 percent accurate. I never exaggerated. I told it the way it actually happened. I'm the only one who has told it the way it actually happened. Major League Baseball is still trying to defend itself. It's strange. All I have is the truth, and I've proven that."

[smc]

I've been giving a lot more thought today to Mark McGwire's interview with Bob Costas. It may still be reasonable to believe that McGwire began taking steroids because of injuries, his refusal to acknowledge even the possibility that the drugs may have contributed positively to his performance numbers renders his apology meaningless. So now we have an admission of guilt, but not the apology that would come with a full confession of the facts.

I am not alone in this assessment. I found this evening that most of the commentators were saying virtually the same thing.

Here's some of what McGwire said when asked by Costas whether the drugs enhanced his performance. Insisting they did not, he said: ""I just believed in my ability, and my hand to eye coordination, and the strength of my mind. I developed them on their own"

Asked whether he would have had the same level of home run productivity if he "had never touched anything more than a protein shake," McGwire said yes, insisting he could have surpassed Babe Ruth's productivity without the drugs.

Keith Olbermann made a very good point: while some speculate whether he might have hit, say, 40 without the steroids rather than 70 in a season, the truth is that if he took the drugs for the reason he claims -- for his health, so that he could be healthy enough to play baseball -- the drugs actually enabled him to hit any number over zero.

Clearly, McGwire had no choice but to "come clean" (his words) because of his recent hiring by the St. Louis Cardinals as hitting coach.

Today comes the revelation that McGwire's "crisis manager" consultant for yesterday's events is Ari Fleischer, George W. Bush's first press secretary of his presidency. As Keith Olbermann put it tonight (I am paraphrasing), now we know that Fleischer's worse "hit and miss" wasn't "Mission Accomplished."

[dauls]

Nice posts smc & shadows.:respect:

I've only seen excerpts of McGwire's interview, but I didn't fall for his crocodile tears. What does he want? A f:censored:cking Oscar. Maybe he taught Paltrow how to weep to order when she collected her 'Best Actress' award.

The "I only took small amounts to help recover from injuries and to cope with the strain of a 162 game schedule", sounds like bullsh:censored:t to me.

If anyone in baseball would have 'needed' steroids to help get through a 162 game season then that would've been the hero who managed to string together a run of 2,632 games, he played through a f:censored:ck of a lot of injuries.
But somehow he knew taking steroids was wrong, even though the Commissioner and MLB failed to implement doping tests in baseball long after other sports had done the decent thing.

Taking steroids in baseball may not have been banned in McGwire's time, but he knew it was wrong. Look at the size of him when he hit that record breaking homer, how did he manage to run the bases carrying that upper body around?

Would he have still hit 583 homers without the steroids?
We'll never know... will we?
So he can't say "Yes, I would have." Unless he can find a time machine, travel back to before his first 'juicing' and then play his career again... clean.
Where's the Doctor when you need him? Oops!:eek: That's what probably got McGwire into trouble in the first place.;)

I bet Bonds is currently enjoying all the attention being on someone else.

-----------------

When it comes to steroids, I'm surprised no athletes have been nobbled by opponents. There must be some dodgy coaches/athletes out there who've wanted/tried to spike the competition's food/drink with the hope that they'll get caught by the testers.

[shadows]

Nice posts smc & shadows.:respect:

I've only seen excerpts of McGwire's interview, but I didn't fall for his crocodile tears. What does he want? A f:censored:cking Oscar. Maybe he taught Paltrow how to weep to order when she collected her 'Best Actress' award.

The "I only took small amounts to help recover from injuries and to cope with the strain of a 162 game schedule", sounds like bullsh:censored:t to me.

If anyone in baseball would have 'needed' steroids to help get through a 162 game season then that would've been the hero who managed to string together a run of 2,632 games, he played through a f:censored:ck of a lot of injuries.
But somehow he knew taking steroids was wrong, even though the Commissioner and MLB failed to implement doping tests in baseball long after other sports had done the decent thing.

Taking steroids in baseball may not have been banned in McGwire's time, but he knew it was wrong. Look at the size of him when he hit that record breaking homer, how did he manage to run the bases carrying that upper body around?

Would he have still hit 583 homers without the steroids?
We'll never know... will we?
So he can't say "Yes, I would have." Unless he can find a time machine, travel back to before his first 'juicing' and then play his career again... clean.
Where's the Doctor when you need him? Oops!:eek: That's what probably got McGwire into trouble in the first place.;)

I bet Bonds is currently enjoying all the attention being on someone else.

-----------------

When it comes to steroids, I'm surprised no athletes have been nobbled by opponents. There must be some dodgy coaches/athletes out there who've wanted/tried to spike the competition's food/drink with the hope that they'll get caught by the testers.

Thanks dauls.:)

Regarding Bonds, he will be happy all right...at least until his trial starts.;)

Just in case you were wondering, you can swear if you want to.:lol:

[ila]

I think the commissioner at the time, team owners, coaches, etc. have got to take some of the blame for the rampant steroid use among the players. Had those in charge not turned a blind eye/encouraged the use/failed to implement drug testing then there would not have been a problem and the players would have had unblemished records. Maybe these players were capable of their feats without drug use, but we'll never know and baseball is the poorer for it.

The fans have lost out and the players have lost out. The only winners, it seems to me, were the team owners. I'm not shocked at this, but I am disappointed.

[transjen]

This whole mess started in the mid 80s and i think ESPN has a lot to do with it, Players were all asking how can i make the top of sports center? Answer smack the ball to the moon not only will that give me prime sports center coverage but my contract amount will increase and it draws more fans to pay and watch putting dollar signs in the owners eyes so they acted like I KNOW NOTHING i don't see my two bash brothers in the stale give each out a needle in the butt,
Money greed caused the whole roid mess and i believe ESPN was a factorer
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

[ila]

This whole mess started in the mid 80s and i think ESPN has a lot to do with it, Players were all asking how can i make the top of sports center? Answer smack the ball to the moon not only will that give me prime sports center coverage but my contract amount will increase and it draws more fans to pay and watch putting dollar signs in the owners eyes so they acted like I KNOW NOTHING i don't see my two bash brothers in the stale give each out a needle in the butt,
Money greed caused the whole roid mess and i believe ESPN was a factorer
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

I've never thought of the ESPN connection, but I think it has merit. You're probably onto something here, Jen.

[shadows]

I think the commissioner at the time, team owners, coaches, etc. have got to take some of the blame for the rampant steroid use among the players. Had those in charge not turned a blind eye/encouraged the use/failed to implement drug testing then there would not have been a problem and the players would have had unblemished records. Maybe these players were capable of their feats without drug use, but we'll never know and baseball is the poorer for it.

The fans have lost out and the players have lost out. The only winners, it seems to me, were the team owners. I'm not shocked at this, but I am disappointed.

It boggles the mind how quickly everyone has given A-Roid a pass(and that means Bud Selig as well as other MLB execs), yet they still will not allow Pete Rose into the Hall! Come on! I can see if Pete ever bet for the Reds to lose, but he always bet for them to win. I think Pete's "crime" is far less severe than the various juice-heads that will probably end up in the Hall(A-Roid? There is one undeserving assclown if I ever saw one. I can't stand that punk!

[shadows]

I've never thought of the ESPN connection, but I think it has merit. You're probably onto something here, Jen.

A lot of the people that post at espn.com have stated that a lot of their articles are now "sensationalized" rather than being just about the sport. There have also been rumblings of bias, such as the various NCAA football stories that deal with the one ESPN employee's son who said that his coach "mistreated" him while he had a concussion. They call it "the shed" incident, but I cannot recall any more particulars.

[transjen]

A-Rod gets the free pass because he's a fan favorite and he packs em in, He didn't do anything that Bonds didn't do and yet Bonds is seen as a bad guy the difference is Bonds was and is an A-HOLE and not loved by fans
And rember good old Bud was and proably still a team owner for most and even if he really no longer owns the Brewers i believe his daughter is so he won't come down on George or take away one of his top gate players as A-ROD draws fans so a blind eye is turned
If Pete was still able to pack the house you could bet your life savings he would be back in baseball but i dout i live long enought to see Pete get in the hall of fame i will bet that Jose Cansenco will get in before Pete does
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

A-Rod gets the free pass because he's a fan favorite and he packs em in, He didn't do anything that Bonds didn't do and yet Bonds is seen as a bad guy the difference is Bonds was and is an A-HOLE and not loved by fans
And rember good old Bud was and proably still a team owner for most and even if he really no longer owns the Brewers i believe his daughter is so he won't come down on George or take away one of his top gate players as A-ROD draws fans so a blind eye is turned
If Pete was still able to pack the house you could bet your life savings he would be back in baseball but i dout i live long enought to see Pete get in the hall of fame i will bet that Jose Cansenco will get in before Pete does
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

But A-Rod is not a fan-favourite, Jen. True, he is liked by the Yankee fans, but his actions both off AND on the field have not endeared him at all to most fans.

I am not sure if you remember this incident or not, but a few years ago he knocked the glove off the hand of the pitcher covering first base while he was running down the first base path. Even Jeter, his own teammate, looked at him with a look of utter disbelief. Needless to say, he got called out, and Jeter was forced to remain at first base(I cannot remember who got called out, but I know it basically killed the rally at the time).

Another time, he called out "Mine! Mine! I got it!" while running the basepaths against Toronto a couple of years ago. Even John McDonald was pissed at him(and Johnny Mac never got angry!) for that. He is not a team-player, and I would rather have a player like Derek Jeter any time. Jeter has respect for fans, for his teammates, and most importantly for the game itself.

The only reason A-Rod has popularity is due to the fact that Selig basically swept it all under the rug. I cannot determine who is worse for their respective sport...Bettman or Selig.

I also don't think that Jose Canseco will ever get in the Hall. He has ruffled far too many feathers to get in. He made them look bad in the eyes of the public and they will remember that.

[transjen]

I also don't think that Jose Canseco will ever get in the Hall. He has ruffled far too many feathers to get in. He made them look bad in the eyes of the public and they will remember that. I meant it more as a joke as i know he doesn't deserve to be in the hall of fame as the only impact on baseball he had was he started the whole roids mess, But my real point was that Pete Rose will proably never get in to the hall because of his sports beting when he was manger of the Reds breaking one of the top rules of baseball so i can see why he's banned and can never mange a team agian but he was still a great player and has the all time hits record and should be in the hall based on his career as a player as a player he never threw a game or bet on a game


:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

I meant it more as a joke as i know he doesn't deserve to be in the hall of fame as the only impact on baseball he had was he started the whole roids mess, But my real point was that Pete Rose will proably never get in to the hall because of his sports beting when he was manger of the Reds breaking one of the top rules of baseball so i can see why he's banned and can never mange a team agian but he was still a great player and has the all time hits record and should be in the hall based on his career as a player as a player he never threw a game or bet on a game


:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Lol. I can be a little thick sometimes.:lol:

I'm not sure that Rose will never get into the Hall. I think that someday he will, just not in the format that they do it right now. I think a future Commisioner will actually place him in. It certainly won't be Selig, but I just have a gut feeling that it will happen. Call me a hopeless optimist, I guess. Actually, I have to be to be a Leaf's fan, right?;):lol:

[Talvenada]

I think the commissioner at the time, team owners, coaches, etc. have got to take some of the blame for the rampant steroid use among the players. Had those in charge not turned a blind eye/encouraged the use/failed to implement drug testing then there would not have been a problem and the players would have had unblemished records. Maybe these players were capable of their feats without drug use, but we'll never know and baseball is the poorer for it.

The fans have lost out and the players have lost out. The only winners, it seems to me, were the team owners. I'm not shocked at this, but I am disappointed.


JEN:

Baseball and sports are only an extension of a society that ups their resume with a keyboard stroke, take people-helping jobs only for the money, and the politicians are the worst of the worst.

TAL

[transjen]

Sorry need to call a foul here
Since we can't talk baseball in the hockey thread then we can't talk hockey in the baseball thread am i rite?
Just bustin your stones you're ok
:lol: Jerseygirl Jen

[Talvenada]

SHADOW MAN:

Jose Canseco turns out to be the only honest one of the bunch.


TAL

[shadows]

Sorry need to call a foul here
Since we can't talk baseball in the hockey thread then we can't talk hockey in the baseball thread am i rite?
Just bustin your stones you're ok
:lol: Jerseygirl Jen

*looks to see if stones are still intact after said bustin'*:eek:

Whew! They're okay!;):)

[shadows]

SHADOW MAN:

Jose Canseco turns out to be the only honest one of the bunch.


TAL

That sure seems to be the case. I always thought that he was being truthful, but it has now come to light just how truthful he was! He knew he was going to be ostracized from the "clique" for writing his book, but he did it anyhow. Was money a motivating factor? Probably it had something to do with it, but I am glad that he brought it to light regardless of the reasons behind it. It caused the users to attempt to scurry back under their rocks, but it was too late. The rocks had already been removed.

I will also admit that I always liked Canseco. He was a hoot to watch, especially in the outfield(remember the ball that bounced off his head and became a homerun when it went over the fence?:lol:). He was even a Blue Jay for a while there.

[transjen]

Jose honest?
He need the money and that is the only reason he came out and spilled the beans

Oh Shadows i'm glad your stones are ok
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[Talvenada]

. I will also admit that I always liked Canseco. He was a hoot to watch, especially in the outfield(remember the ball that bounced off his head and became a homerun when it went over the fence?:lol:). He was even a Blue Jay for a while there.

SHADOW MAN:

I write a blog about Doc's new team: The Phillies, and you might want to check out my work. I have a feeling I'll be writing a lot about him.

@ http://isportsweb.com/

I remember Jason Michaels--when he was a Phillie--trying to make a left-to-right shoestring catch on the leftfield warning track, and, during the swoop he rushed a shade too much, the ball flew out of his not-fully-secured glove and over the fence for a HR. Canseco's head shot was better thought.

TAL

[Talvenada]

Jose honest?
He need the money and that is the only reason he came out and spilled the beans

Oh Shadows i'm glad your stones are ok
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

JEN:

Honesty for a buck. Wow, how far have we sunk.


TAL

[shadows]

Jose honest?
He need the money and that is the only reason he came out and spilled the beans

Oh Shadows i'm glad your stones are ok
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Thank you for your concern, Jen.:)

[shadows]

SHADOW MAN:

I write a blog about Doc's new team: The Phillies, and you might want to check out my work. I have a feeling I'll be writing a lot about him.

@ http://isportsweb.com/

I remember Jason Michaels--when he was a Phillie--trying to make a left-to-right shoestring catch on the leftfield warning track, and, during the swoop he rushed a shade too much, the ball flew out of his not-fully-secured glove and over the fence for a HR. Canseco's head shot was better thought.

TAL

Thanks. I'll check it out. Jen and dauls are Phillie's fans so I imagine that they will take a boo at it as well.:)

[shadows]

Interesting blogs, Tal. You are quite the Phillie fan, it looks like.:respect:

[transjen]

Thanks. I'll check it out. Jen and dauls are Phillie's fans so I imagine that they will take a boo at it as well.:)

Why would i boo? unless Santa Clause is in it
:lol: Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

Why would i boo? unless Santa Clause is in it
:lol: Jerseygirl Jen

Don't you like it when Jolly Ol' St. Nick gives you things?;):innocent:

[transjen]

Don't you like it when Jolly Ol' St. Nick gives you things?;):innocent:

It's an old joke about Phillies fans that we are so mean we even boo Santa Clause
:eek:Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

It's an old joke about Phillies fans that we are so mean we even boo Santa Clause
:eek:Jerseygirl Jen

I never heard that one before. I heard that the Phillie fans could get quite vocal, but I never heard about them booing Santa!:eek:

[Talvenada]

I never heard that one before. I heard that the Phillie fans could get quite vocal, but I never heard about them booing Santa!:eek:


SHADOW MAN:

It's threw snowballs at Santa during an Eagles' game, but the Santa-was-drunk part gets left out. Why let facts ruin a good story.

Thnx for checking about my small contribution to the national sports blog.

TAL

[smc]

Jeez, lots of baseball discussion while I was gone. I guess it was a good idea to start this thread.

Just a quick note on booing by Philadelphia fans: October 2008, Sarah Palin at the Flyers game! That was spectacular.

[smc]

On Tuesday, the son of Barry Bonds -- Nikolai, age 20 -- pleaded not guilty in San Mateo County (California) Superior Court to five misdemeanor charges related to a fight with his mother.

Barry was in the courtroom.

The charges go back to December 5. Nikolai Bonds is alleged by police to have thrown a doorknob at mom (Sun Bonds, from whom Barry is divorced) and spit in her face, prevented her from leaving, destroyed property worth about $400, and threatened an officer. The charges are battery, false imprisonment, vandalism, making threats to an officer, and obstructing an officer.

Here in Red Sox Nation, our discussion about this has turned into a debate over what started the fight. Some say it was simple "'roid rage" by Nikolai, following in dad's footsteps. Others say Nikolai and mom were arguing about whether Barry's hat size is 16 or 16-1/2.

(Okay, I made that last part up.)

[transjen]

Nah they were fighting over who's breasts were bigger his or his dads
:lol: Jerseygirl Jen

[transjen]

Just a quick note on booing by Philadelphia fans: October 2008, Sarah Palin at the Flyers game! That was spectacular.

True story my boyfriend and i had tickets for that game he brought them back in Aug before there was any talk of Sarah and family being at the game anyway we decided to sale em as the security would have been a big pain in the butt so we missed out on that dog and pony show
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Nah they were fighting over who's breasts were bigger his or his dads
:lol: Jerseygirl Jen

Good one, Jen ... even better than mine!

But I must say, as someone who appreciates some fine titties, that the thought of Barry Bonds that way makes me want to puke. I hope I can get that image out of my head soon.

[transjen]

Good one, Jen ... even better than mine!

But I must say, as someone who appreciates some fine titties, that the thought of Barry Bonds that way makes me want to puke. I hope I can get that image out of my head soon.

Perhaps this may help breast development is only one of many possiable side effects so he may not have any, Poor guy fyi haveing breast is great i love mine
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Perhaps this may help breast development is only one of many possiable side effects so he may not have any, Poor guy fyi haveing breast is great i love mine
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Two things I'm sure of:

1. If growing breasts requires something as harmful to the rest of the body as steroids, it can't possibly be worth the price.

2. At the risk of being too forward, Jen's are lovely. (Don't get me wrong; I haven't seen them, I'm just speculating.)

At some point, I'll get back to baseball!

[Talvenada]

Perhaps this may help breast development is only one of many possiable side effects so he may not have any, Poor guy fyi haveing breast is great i love mine
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

JEN:

Could you post your old avatar b4 your cutie got lopped off? It showed your girls if I recall.

TAL

[transjen]

JEN:

Could you post your old avatar b4 your cutie got lopped off? It showed your girls if I recall.

TAL :no: :no: That's a photo i'd like to forget as it show a part of me i hated and no long have and fyi it was not cute it was the most hideious thing i ever saw
:no: Jerseygirl Jen

[transjen]

Two things I'm sure of:

1. If growing breasts requires something as harmful to the rest of the body as steroids, it can't possibly be worth the price.

2. At the risk of being too forward, Jen's are lovely. (Don't get me wrong; I haven't seen them, I'm just speculating.)

At some point, I'll get back to baseball!

Granted most guys would not be happy grewing breasts plus some of the other things that could happen down under

I didn't get my breasts from riods mine were thanks to female hormones and implants and i've been told they look great and i'm happy with em
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

I didn't get my breasts from riods mine were thanks to female hormones and implants and i've been told they look great and i'm happy with em
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

I hope no one thought I was even hinting that they came from steroids -- because the thought never crossed my mind.

And now for some more baseball:

Brad Lidge had what is being called "minor arthroscopic right knee surgery" yesterday. It makes one wonder (as I am sure every Phillies fan is doing): did they take the occasion to install some kind of drama-reduction device in his body so that you Phillies fans can have less of a heart-attack reaction when he's called from the bullpen?!?! ;)

[transjen]

It would explain why he had a lot of trouble closing games last year as his delivery was out of step i'm only wondering why he didn't do this sooner as one of the pitching coachs should have seen his delievery was out of whack
:confused: Jerseygirl Jen

[aw9725]

The present controversy regarding PED?s in baseball and other professional sports is actually nothing new. Nor is it likely to ?go away? anytime soon. I have been following this thread for a while and hope this post and the links I?ve provided below will help in understanding the current situation. As some of you know from my other posts and PM?s I played defensive end and linebacker in high-school and college, was a personal trainer for a while, and still workout regularly. So I have some first-hand knowledge of this issue. Over the years I witnessed a great deal of ?steroid abuse? and am frankly surprised that it has taken this long for the general public to realize how rampant PED?s are in all of sports. I remember the 1998 baseball season well and telling all my friends that McGwire and Sosa had to be doing something. Of course the reaction I usually got was ?no, man, they?re just big guys!? When I was in junior-high and beginning to lift, I remember asking my coaches about Arnold and Lou Ferrigno and was told ?they just work hard.? Only when I got into organized football later in high-school did PED?s come out into the ?open.? Based on my own experiences, I personally wouldn?t put it past anyone in professional sports (yes, all sports--even golf and basketball) to try using something to get an ?edge?--the stakes are simply too high and the amount of money to be made is unbelievable. Even my beloved Colts are suspect (disclaimer: I have two friends that play for them).

For the record, I have never taken anything that was illegal and couldn?t be purchased at a health food store or someplace like GNC. However I had ample opportunities (especially in college) and seriously considered it. I can?t help but wonder if taking these things would?ve made a difference in my own performance--my major weakness was being ?undersized? and ?slow? for an NFL pass rusher. My college coach wanted me to ?bulk up? to about 290-300 and try playing nose tackle--but looking back I?m glad I never took anything like steroids or HGH. Today, I take Creatine before and after each workout as well as ZMA and protein supplements. I?ll be 40 this year and consider myself to be in the best shape of my life. And my six-figure income as a professor over a twenty or thirty year career will be more than what many NFL players make in a short career. I hope young people think about things like this before they start taking steroids, HGH, or whatever. It?s not worth it--at least I didn?t think so.

What should baseball do about these records? I really don?t know. Really don?t. On one hand, there was clearly ?usage? and records were broken. Was it ?illegal?? ?Unethical?? This isn?t the first time in history PED?s have been used. I have included a couple of links that readers might be interested in. Pud Galvin was the first ?300? game winner. Was he ?jucing?? Read the article, it was considered OK back then. Should Pud be ?banned?? I will admit that the Summer of 1998 was very exciting and I remember watching McGwire hit number 62 with my Dad. Should the records stand? Do you think Big Mac would have hit ?70? without drugs? Would Barry Bonds have hit as many? I personally don?t think so. But I don?t have a good answer for what to do about those records. Maybe all sports records should be viewed in the ?context? of the era that they were set. At least the recent rash of players and bodybuilders ?coming clean? about using steroids brings this issue out into the open where it can be discussed. Now at least we aren?t trying to ?deny? it?s use as when I was a teenager in the 80?s (of course I knew better--so did my teammates--LOL!). Performance ?enhancement? is an area that is not going to go away--it may not be the drugs and supplements used today--but there will always be those seeking to gain an advantage.

Read about ?Pud? here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5314753

Read about ?Dr. Ziegler? here:
http://www.slate.com/id/2113752/

[shadows]

It would explain why he had a lot of trouble closing games last year as his delivery was out of step i'm only wondering why he didn't do this sooner as one of the pitching coachs should have seen his delievery was out of whack
:confused: Jerseygirl Jen

A lot of players play through pain or injuries. They know that if they miss time during the season, they may lose their spot due to their replacement playing well during their absence.

[transjen]

The present controversy regarding PED’s in baseball and other professional sports is actually nothing new. Nor is it likely to “go away” anytime soon. I have been following this thread for a while and hope this post and the links I’ve provided below will help in understanding the current situation. As some of you know from my other posts and PM’s I played defensive end and linebacker in high-school and college, was a personal trainer for a while, and still workout regularly. So I have some first-hand knowledge of this issue. Over the years I witnessed a great deal of “steroid abuse” and am frankly surprised that it has taken this long for the general public to realize how rampant PED’s are in all of sports. I remember the 1998 baseball season well and telling all my friends that McGwire and Sosa had to be doing something. Of course the reaction I usually got was “no, man, they’re just big guys!” When I was in junior-high and beginning to lift, I remember asking my coaches about Arnold and Lou Ferrigno and was told “they just work hard.” Only when I got into organized football later in high-school did PED’s come out into the “open.” Based on my own experiences, I personally wouldn’t put it past anyone in professional sports (yes, all sports--even golf and basketball) to try using something to get an “edge”--the stakes are simply too high and the amount of money to be made is unbelievable. Even my beloved Colts are suspect (disclaimer: I have two friends that play for them).

For the record, I have never taken anything that was illegal and couldn’t be purchased at a health food store or someplace like GNC. However I had ample opportunities (especially in college) and seriously considered it. I can’t help but wonder if taking these things would’ve made a difference in my own performance--my major weakness was being “undersized” and “slow” for an NFL pass rusher. My college coach wanted me to “bulk up” to about 290-300 and try playing nose tackle--but looking back I’m glad I never took anything like steroids or HGH. Today, I take Creatine before and after each workout as well as ZMA and protein supplements. I’ll be 40 this year and consider myself to be in the best shape of my life. And my six-figure income as a professor over a twenty or thirty year career will be more than what many NFL players make in a short career. I hope young people think about things like this before they start taking steroids, HGH, or whatever. It’s not worth it--at least I didn’t think so.

What should baseball do about these records? I really don’t know. Really don’t. On one hand, there was clearly “usage” and records were broken. Was it “illegal”? “Unethical”? This isn’t the first time in history PED’s have been used. I have included a couple of links that readers might be interested in. Pud Galvin was the first “300” game winner. Was he “jucing”? Read the article, it was considered OK back then. Should Pud be “banned”? I will admit that the Summer of 1998 was very exciting and I remember watching McGwire hit number 62 with my Dad. Should the records stand? Do you think Big Mac would have hit “70” without drugs? Would Barry Bonds have hit as many? I personally don’t think so. But I don’t have a good answer for what to do about those records. Maybe all sports records should be viewed in the “context” of the era that they were set. At least the recent rash of players and bodybuilders “coming clean” about using steroids brings this issue out into the open where it can be discussed. Now at least we aren’t trying to “deny” it’s use as when I was a teenager in the 80’s (of course I knew better--so did my teammates--LOL!). Performance “enhancement” is an area that is not going to go away--it may not be the drugs and supplements used today--but there will always be those seeking to gain an advantage.

Read about “Pud” here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5314753

Read about “Dr. Ziegler” here:
http://www.slate.com/id/2113752/

All we the fans can do about the records set in the riods era is just take it with a geain of salt as it wasn't just one or two players and as Roger Clemons proved pichters were also taking needles in the butt
But sadly in the end these records stand but for all time HR'S yes Bonds has the record but i admire Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth more as they did it the proper way
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Dan Shaughnessy, a sports columnist for The Boston Globe, has an interesting column in today's issue on the McGwire matter. I'm not a big fan of Shaughnessy, but it's worth reading his perspective.

Here's a link:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2010/01/13/juicy_details_just_give_us_roid_rage/

[aw9725]

All we the fans can do about the records set in the riods era is just take it with a geain of salt as it wasn't just one or two players and as Roger Clemons proved pichters were also taking needles in the butt
But sadly in the end these records stand but for all time HR'S yes Bonds has the record but i admire Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth more as they did it the proper way
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

You know something Jen? I think people will remember Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth years from now and the current players of the "Steroid Era" will long be forgotten. :)

[transjen]

You know something Jen? I think people will remember Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth years from now and the current players of the "Steroid Era" will long be forgotten. :)Well i think some players will be rembered like Tony Gwynn a fine hitter and was not on riods and Cal Ripken another fine player and who was not on riods and holds the iron man make with most consective games played

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[ila]

Well i think some players will be rembered like Tony Gwynn a fine hitter and was not on riods and Cal Ripken another fine player and who was not on riods and holds the iron man make with most consective games played

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

I'd forgotten about Cal Ripken. Thankyou for reminding me about one of the greats.

[transjen]

I'd forgotten about Cal Ripken. Thankyou for reminding me about one of the greats. How could you forget Cal :eek: But then i have a thing for shortstops as that was the position i played as a kid


On a side note Cal is a very nice guy ,i met him at a springtraining game years ago in FL around 96 or 97 and he was swamped with people wanting autographs and he stayed till everyone got one and he didn't just sign and push you along either
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[ila]

How could you forget Cal :eek: But then i have a thing for shortstops as that was the position i played as a kud


On a side note Cal is a very nice guy ,i met him at a springtraining game years ago in FL around 96 or 97 and he was swamped with people wanting autographs and he stayed till everyone got one and he didn't just sign and push you along either
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

I think it's very nice of a star like Cal to be so down to earth and friendly with his fans. That shows true class. It's no wonder he's one of the greats.

[smc]

The Red Sox had a player who was like Ripken with fans and other players alike: Sean Casey. A few years ago, some magazine (it might have been The Sporting News, but I can't remember for sure) surveyed more than 400 players and asked them who the nicest guy in baseball was, and Sean won hands down. Before he came to the Sox, he played for Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Detroit. He's famous for getting up early the morning after games and going to help serve food at a homeless shelter that he founded. He would always come out and talk to kids waiting around after games at Fenway. And a friend of mine told me that he ran into him at a restaurant in Florida during Spring training and started up a conversation with him that lasted 2 hours, where they talked about baseball, families, etc., as if they were old friends ... and then Sean insisted on paying for everyone in the entire restaurant because, he said, "it was such a nice real night" and he was sure he made far too much money to "play a game."

[transjen]

Just goes to show some players see that they are where there are because of the fans and some few honored that someone wants there autograph Mike Schmidt was a good guy for signing as was TugMcGraw and yes even Larry Bowa was a good signer even though he was focaused on my tits while signing a baseball for me
:yes:Jerseygirl Jen

[Talvenada]

:no: :no: That's a photo i'd like to forget as it show a part of me i hated and no long have and fyi it was not cute it was the most hideious thing i ever saw
:no: Jerseygirl Jen

JEN:

Wow! Don't be so hard on your past, please. It's part of your life, good and bad. I'm sure there was at least a good memory or two related to your hideous appendage.

TAL

[transjen]

JEN:

Wow! Don't be so hard on your past, please. It's part of your life, good and bad. I'm sure there was at least a good memory or two related to your hideous appendage.

TAL

I know it's part of my past but you said the key word " past" a past that was full of pain i won't go in to detail here but lets just move on i'm sorry but that's on avatar that i will not bring back please just accept that and lets move forward
:no: Jerseygirl Jenn

[Talvenada]

A lot of players play through pain or injuries. They know that if they miss time during the season, they may lose their spot due to their replacement playing well during their absence.

SHADOW MAN:

Yeah, Hamels takes all the proper precautions, and he gets questioned as soft by fans and media. It's a no-win situation.

Lidge had his best year in '08 and worst year in '09, but he'll be late by a couple weeks for a season that will be neither perfect nor brutal. Madson or Baez will fill in for 2 weeks, which is no big deal.

TAL

[Talvenada]

I know it's part of my past but you said the key word " past" a past that was full of pain i won't go in to detail here but lets just move on i'm sorry but that's on avatar that i will not bring back please just accept that and lets move forward
:no: Jerseygirl Jenn


JEN:

I accepted that before the post; that's not what my post was about. I respect your feelings. I wasn't trying to put the scab off of an old wound.

TAL

[transjen]

SHADOW MAN:

Yeah, Hamels takes all the proper precautions, and he gets questioned as soft by fans and media. It's a no-win situation.
TAL

Very true but just ask yourself had they done the same for Sandy Koufax how many more years would he have pitched?
Not sure who said it but i rember hearing the act of pitching a baseball is one of the most unnatural motions ever for the human body
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[Talvenada]

Very true but just ask yourself had they done the same for Sandy Koufax how many more years would he have pitched?
Not sure who said it but i rember hearing the act of pitching a baseball is one of the most unnatural motions ever for the human body
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

JEN:

Trouble is nobody knows for sure. The reason is that all bodies are different. When it comes to heat during the winter, everybody has a different reaction to the cold and heat, meaning 10-15 different reactions. Like smoking, some peoples' lungs last for 40 years without a major physical ailment, while someone else has major problems in half the time.

Pitchers fall into a category where there are 10-15 different reactions with time as a major element.

TAL

[shadows]

Well i think some players will be rembered like Tony Gwynn a fine hitter and was not on riods and Cal Ripken another fine player and who was not on riods and holds the iron man make with most consective games played

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Cal Ripken Jr., Tony Gwynn, two class acts.

And Sean Casey, even though I did not know that before I read this thread! Class acts all!:respect:

[smc]

Tony LaRussa continues to insist that he had no idea whatsoever that Mark McGwire was using, or had ever used, steroids.

Sure, and I have no idea that there's a dick in my pants.

[dauls]

Tony LaRussa continues to insist that he had no idea whatsoever that Mark McGwire was using, or had ever used, steroids.

Sure, and I have no idea that there's a dick in my pants.

Well McGwire still hasn't been fully honest about the steroids, so why should LaRussa?

Here are some steroid influenced cartoons that mock the steriod abusers and praise a couple of true baseball heroes.

:respect: Roger and Hank deserve their records back.

[smc]

Thanks, dauls, for the great cartoons.

Five weeks before pitchers and catchers report to camp. I can't wait for real baseball to begin so we can shift focus away from juicing, even if only in part.

[shadows]

I agree with smc. I had some good laughs due to those cartoons. Thanks dauls.:):respect:

Speaking of McGuire, have you seen any recent pictures of him?:eek: His neck has a huge amount of stretch marks, so I guess you can tell that his neck has finally shrunk. That must mean he is finally off the juice!;)

[aw9725]

Thought you might like to see this. "Big Mac" before he was brought up to the "majors" in 1986. As you can see, he is listed at a relatively "lanky" 6'5" 215. Think he did some "bulking up" along the way? LOL!

[shadows]

Thought you might like to see this. "Big Mac" before he was brought up to the "majors." Circa 1986. As you can see, he is listed at a relatively "lanky" 6'5" 215. Think he did some "bulking up" along the way. LOL!

With stats that look normal rather than suspiciously high.;)

I wonder how much a Mark McGuire rookie card would go for now?:innocent:

Now that he "admitted" using steroids and HGH(considering how that was found in his locker while he was having an interview, it would be impossible for him to deny that one) I wonder if it's worth went up or down?

[aw9725]

The starting bid on that one is only $9.95US on eBay.

[shadows]

The starting bid on that one is only $9.95US on eBay.

You better get cracking then, aw, as it is sure to be a hot commodity.;):p:lol:

[transjen]

With the Flyers playing like a giant turd i can at least be happy that there is only 75 days to opening day
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

With the Flyers playing like a giant turd i can at least be happy that there is only 75 days to opening day
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Like said giant turd, their poor play will eventually pass and they will be winning again. I think that they will make a move during the second half.;)

Regarding baseball, all Blue Jays players have now been re-signed and they avoid arbitration yet again(they have not had to deal with that since 1997).:)

[Talvenada]

With the Flyers playing like a giant turd i can at least be happy that there is only 75 days to opening day
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen


JEN:


Hockey on a baseball thread?
LOL!!

TAL

[smc]

Phillies fans who risked heart attacks every time Brad Lidge came into a game last season can now add stroke to their health risks from relief pitchers. Word is that Eric Gagne is going to have a tryout this afternoon in Arizona for the Phillies.

Gagne has what could safely be called a "checkered career." He won the Cy Young Award in 2003 with the Dodgers and holds the record for consecutive saves with 84. He had three seasons during which the word "unhittable" would not be an exaggeration: from 2002-04, with the Dodgers, his ERA was 1.79 and his strikeout-to-walk ration was 6.29. But then came Tommy John surgery. He came back and wasn't too bad in the first half of 2007.

After that, we got to see him at Fenway Park. He joined the team in July 2007. I happened to be at the game where he made his first appearance in a Red Sox uniform, a lovely afternoon that was Bobby Doerr Day! Gagne was a disaster. The Sox got rid of him. He spent last season as a starting pitcher for the Quebec Capitals of the Canadian-American Independent League, posting a 6-6 record, with an ERA of 4.65 ERA.

In Red Sox Nation, Gagne coming into a game during his Red Sox tenure would provoke the same reaction as Lidge coming into a game for the Phillies last year. It was time to make sure your health insurance premiums were paid up.

(Gagne, by the way, was named in the Mitchell Report in December 2007 as a steroid user!)

[Talvenada]

Gagne is a lightning-in-a-bottle guy, and probably won't even make the team for a 2 week trial run in April. The Phillies will have 5 open spots with Moyer (out for April), Lidge and Romero (both out for 2 weeks) to go with the 2 open slots for young arms to unclog the AA & AAA bottleneck of young arms.

Lidge may have caused heartburn last year, but he wasn't booed off the mound. He has now had his best and worst years with '10 being neither perfect nor a disaster. Nobody would have believed with Philly's reputation that Lidge could have his worst year ever, and still not be booed.

[smc]

The Red Sox again avoided arbitration with Jonathan Papelbon and signed the closer to a 1-year deal.

One of my dreams for this season is for Papelbon to confront Jon Miller of ESPN, who insists on calling Pap "Jon" rather than "Jonathan" -- something about which Papelbon has been quite adamant with the Boston media (all of whom are happy to go along). In my dream, Pap climbs up the screen and makes his way to the broadcast booth, drags Miller down to the field, and recreates the Irish jig he did after the 2004 World Series victory, dancing around Miller while the broadcaster begs not to be stepped on.

Remember, this is only a dream.

Now, if it were to happen in real life, who wants to bet against the following?: Joe Morgan, still up in the broadcast booth, says in complete seriousness that when he played he would never have done such a thing and that Papelbon's Hall of Fame chances are being compromised.

[Talvenada]

The problem with Joe is that he stayed a year too long, and The Phillies made The WS that year in '83. Joe fell flat on his face coming off of 3rd base trying to score in that WS, and it was a pitiful thing to watch for a guy who was a great player (not announcer).

[shadows]

The Red Sox again avoided arbitration with Jonathan Papelbon and signed the closer to a 1-year deal.

One of my dreams for this season is for Papelbon to confront Jon Miller of ESPN, who insists on calling Pap "Jon" rather than "Jonathan" -- something about which Papelbon has been quite adamant with the Boston media (all of whom are happy to go along). In my dream, Pap climbs up the screen and makes his way to the broadcast booth, drags Miller down to the field, and recreates the Irish jig he did after the 2004 World Series victory, dancing around Miller while the broadcaster begs not to be stepped on.

Remember, this is only a dream.

Now, if it were to happen in real life, who wants to bet against the following?: Joe Morgan, still up in the broadcast booth, says in complete seriousness that when he played he would never have done such a thing and that Papelbon's Hall of Fame chances are being compromised.

That reminds me of the team when Jim Rome kept on calling a quarterback(Jim Elway? I cannot recall the fellow's name) a name that he repeatedly asked not to be called. Rome kept it up, so he was tackled on the set! I don't think that interview was ever finished...;)

Some people do not like to be called by the shortened version of their name. There was a guy that I worked with that wanted to be called James rather than Jim. Nothing wrong with that, and I don't blame Papelbon wanted to be called Jonathan rather than Jon. There are a couple of other incidents where he came across as a jerk, but not in this case.

[smc]

The San Francisco Giants are keeping Bengie Molina behind the plate for 2010. I keep wondering how many more Molina brothers (or other relatives) there are waiting to make the big leagues as catchers. In addition to Bengie, we already have Jose (who was with the Yankees last season), and Yadier (who started for the Cardinals last year). Then there's Gustavo (who I think is in the minors now but played for the Mets in 2008); is he related to them in some way? And what about Stubby, Stumpy, and Chunky?

[transjen]

The San Francisco Giants are keeping Bengie Molina behind the plate for 2010. I keep wondering how many more Molina brothers (or other relatives) there are waiting to make the big leagues as catchers. In addition to Bengie, we already have Jose (who was with the Yankees last season), and Yadier (who started for the Cardinals last year). Then there's Gustavo (who I think is in the minors now but played for the Mets in 2008); is he related to them in some way? And what about Stubby, Stumpy, and Chunky?Where's Mike Piazza when you need him he was so dreamie :inlove:

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Where's Mike Piazza when you need him he was so dreamie :inlove:

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Come to think of it, I used to think he was kinda dreamy. Hmmmm, I wonder what that might have meant?

[transjen]

Come to think of it, I used to think he was kinda dreamy. Hmmmm, I wonder what that might have meant? :lol: Don't think i want to go there but hey i know an excellent DR in Thailand


:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

I am just loving the latest news on the Mark McGwire front.

Ferguson Jenkins, the Hall-of-Fame pitcher, sent an open letter to the Associated Press in which he says McGwire owes an apology to all pitchers who gave up home runs to him. Here are some excerpts from the letter:

"You have not even begun to apologize to those you have harmed. ... You have yet to all the pitchers you faced while juiced. You altered pitchers' lives. You may have shortened pitchers careers because of the advantage you forced over them while juiced."

In a telephone interview yesterday with the Associated Press, Jenkins elaborated. "How many pitchers do you think he ended their careers by hitting numbers of home runs off them?" And he said he would have known how to handle the bulked-up McGwire at the plate.

"It's tough to hit a home run off your back. In my era, Seaver, Gibson, Drysdale, Carlton, there were so many guys that would have probably knocked him on his butt."

Go Fergie!!

[transjen]

From the tapes and interviews i've seen and read Bob Gibson would have knocked Big Mac and Jose on there butts

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Gibson was a master of pitching inside. He could throw so, so close without hitting a batter, even better than Don Drysdale -- who was very good at it, too. Gibson only hit 102 batters in his long career.

By the way, Jen, congrats to your Phillies for nailing down Shane Victorino for three years. He is quite a ballplayer.

[dauls]

Signing Victorino is good news, he gets better every season. Blanton has also signed, and hopefully the next one to sign will be Carlos Ruiz.

And then there's the possibility of adding Jose Contreras to the bullpen. That's got to be better than Gagne.

[shadows]

Where's Mike Piazza when you need him he was so dreamie :inlove:

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

He's still dodging pieces of broken bat that the steroid-freak named Roger Clemens continues to throw his way.;):lol:

[shadows]

I am just loving the latest news on the Mark McGwire front.

Ferguson Jenkins, the Hall-of-Fame pitcher, sent an open letter to the Associated Press in which he says McGwire owes an apology to all pitchers who gave up home runs to him. Here are some excerpts from the letter:

"You have not even begun to apologize to those you have harmed. ... You have yet to all the pitchers you faced while juiced. You altered pitchers' lives. You may have shortened pitchers careers because of the advantage you forced over them while juiced."

In a telephone interview yesterday with the Associated Press, Jenkins elaborated. "How many pitchers do you think he ended their careers by hitting numbers of home runs off them?" And he said he would have known how to handle the bulked-up McGwire at the plate.

"It's tough to hit a home run off your back. In my era, Seaver, Gibson, Drysdale, Carlton, there were so many guys that would have probably knocked him on his butt."

Go Fergie!!

Yeah! Go Fergie!:cool: He's from the city I live in!:yes:

[Talvenada]

Signing Victorino is good news, he gets better every season. Blanton has also signed, and hopefully the next one to sign will be Carlos Ruiz.

And then there's the possibility of adding Jose Contreras to the bullpen. That's got to be better than Gagne.


DAULS:

Chooch is suppose to sign a 3-year deal within the next 4-5 days.


TAL

[shadows]

DAULS:

Chooch is suppose to sign a 3-year deal within the next 4-5 days.


TAL

Chooch? Who is that?

[smc]

How about this? I read that the Twins are hoping to sign Jim Thome and make him the DH. This coming season, the Twins start playing in their new ballpark, Target Field, which has the same dimensions as the Metrodome (or the "Homerdome"). Imagine a Twins lineup with Thome, Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Jason Kubel, and Michael Cuddyer -- all in that small park. Holy shit!

[Talvenada]

Chooch? Who is that?


SHADOW:


It's Phillies' Catcher Carlos Ruiz.


TAL

[Talvenada]

SHADOW:


It's Phillies' Catcher Carlos Ruiz.


TAL

Chooch is signed for (surprise) 3 years.

[dauls]

Chooch is signed for (surprise) 3 years.

That's good. Now all the arbitration-eligible players have been signed.

Where else will the Phillies look to strengthen the roster?

What are the chances of Jayson Werth remaining with the Phillies when he becomes a free agent after the 2010 season? Another season like 2009 and the Phillies would be looking at a $10+ a year deal to keep him.

If the Phillies payroll keeps rising as fast as it has in the last 2 or 3 years, they'll pass the Mets' payroll soon.

[shadows]

How about this? I read that the Twins are hoping to sign Jim Thome and make him the DH. This coming season, the Twins start playing in their new ballpark, Target Field, which has the same dimensions as the Metrodome (or the "Homerdome"). Imagine a Twins lineup with Thome, Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Jason Kubel, and Michael Cuddyer -- all in that small park. Holy shit!

It depends on what they sign him for. Thome is nowhere near the player he was a few years ago, and he has had some injuries creeping up on him recently. If the contract is not too high and perhaps an incentive-laden one, I could see this as a good signing. If they overpay, they could end up like the Blue Jays did when they signed Frank Thomas(man, if only we could have gotten him when he was not a shadow of his former self).

[ila]

It depends on what they sign him for. Thome is nowhere near the player he was a few years ago, and he has had some injuries creeping up on him recently. If the contract is not too high and perhaps an incentive-laden one, I could see this as a good signing. If they overpay, they could end up like the Blue Jays did when they signed Frank Thomas(man, if only we could have gotten him when he was not a shadow of his former self).

That seems to be a common Jays problem. When they do get a good player at a reasonable salary they let him go. Sometimes the Jays are so frustrating with the way they do business.

Yes, shadows, I do support the Jays (the only Toronto team that I do support). I would like to see them be a lot more consistent than they are. They always get my hopes only to dash them again.

[Talvenada]

That's good. Now all the arbitration-eligible players have been signed.

Where else will the Phillies look to strengthen the roster?

What are the chances of Jayson Werth remaining with the Phillies when he becomes a free agent after the 2010 season? Another season like 2009 and the Phillies would be looking at a $10+ a year deal to keep him.

If the Phillies payroll keeps rising as fast as it has in the last 2 or 3 years, they'll pass the Mets' payroll soon.

DUALS:

Everybody wants to keep Werth, who will be a $15M to $20M signing, if he has a good to super year with good being at '09 numbers.

We want J-Dub to have a super year, because no one will want him to have an off year.

However, if I read my Rubes correctly, The Phillies will dole out big money $15M to $20M (tops) to Halladay (or Lee), Rynosaur, Utley and Hamels.

We want Cole to come up big, and when he does he'll be 1 of 4 guys with big tickets: 2 starters and 2 position players.


4 guys @ $60M to $80M seems to be the ceiling, if I read my Rubes right.

Everything else is a dream. Keep in mind there is only 1 big ticket left to buy: Cole Hamels OR a starting stud hurler.


TAL

[shadows]

That seems to be a common Jays problem. When they do get a good player at a reasonable salary they let him go. Sometimes the Jays are so frustrating with the way they do business.

Yes, shadows, I do support the Jays (the only Toronto team that I do support). I would like to see them be a lot more consistent than they are. They always get my hopes only to dash them again.

I think now that J.P. Retardi is no longer the GM things will be looking up. We may have been able to get Adam Dunn...or at least we could have before our Idiot Savant(without the Savant) of a GM decided to belittle him. And to top that all off, someone pretended to be Adam Dunn when they talked to him during his session on Jay's Radio. What a buffoon!:rolleyes:

Frank Thomas: Bad contract.

B.J.Ryan: At the time of the signing it honestly looked good. Then he got injured and that was that. So neutral contract.

Vernon Wells: Horrible, horrible contract! That basically handcuffs the Jays for many years, as who the hell would pick up that contract in a trade? Not even the Yankees, as Wells has sucked eggs the past couple of seasons. I think it was more of a case of getting off the juice than being "injured" all the time. I think his production dropping around the time of the Mitchell Reports being announced is more than just a coincidence. Perhaps I am just being a jaded Jays fan...perhaps not. HORRIBLE :censored: CONTRACT!

Alex Rios: Another bad contract. Thankfully we were able to pawn him off to another team who picked up his contract via the waiver wire! Thank you Chicago Whitesox, THANK YOU!!!! That kid had so much potential, but he just couldn't reach it. I just don't think he has the mental(and by this, I don't mean intelligence)capability to do it now. He will be an okay player, but will never reach his full potential. Bad contract...that we were lucky to get rid of.

Is it a telling sign that we were not able to sign any of our draft picks this year? I think MLB needs to change the way they have the draft and make it something like the NHL has. If a team picks you, you play for them or you get sanctioned until you do(or the team that picked you gets a bonus pick(s) in the next draft and the player still doesn't get to play for a year or two). Scott Boras is an agent of a lot of these young punks(and I say it because they are obviously in it for money only, and are being greedy since they have not proven themselves on a professional level), and he is a cancer/parasite that MLB needs to get rid of. Look at the list of MLB players that he is an agent of, and you will see that he is the agent of the ones that have "issues", either with their code of conduct, their maturity, or their attitude.

A mini-rant there at the end, but I had to get it off my chest.;)

[Talvenada]

SHADOW:

Alex Anthopoulos looks good as one of the new breed of GM, like Theo Epstein in BOS & Rube Amaro in Philly.

TAL

[shadows]

SHADOW:

Alex Anthopoulos looks good as one of the new breed of GM, like Theo Epstein in BOS & Rube Amaro in Philly.

TAL

I hope that to be the case.:) I certainly am willing to give him a chance, unlike certain Jays "fans" who want us to be like the Yankees and buy everything in sight(I'm glad we're not like that). They bitch and moan about how he isn't doing anything at all, and how we need to get big named players now, now, NOW!!! Give the guy a chance, people! Sheesh!

[Talvenada]

I hope that to be the case.:) I certainly am willing to give him a chance, unlike certain Jays "fans" who want us to be like the Yankees and buy everything in sight(I'm glad we're not like that). They bitch and moan about how he isn't doing anything at all, and how we need to get big named players now, now, NOW!!! Give the guy a chance, people! Sheesh!

SHADOW:

His sons are running the team differently than George for the last couple of years. Last year no big pitcher was picked up at the deadline. They spend their whole wad in the off-season with CC, AJ & Tex, but had more money come off the books with Abreu, Giambi & Mussina. The sons are not spending like George, and their payroll is going down.

TAL

[shadows]

SHADOW:

His sons are running the team differently than George for the last couple of years. Last year no big pitcher was picked up at the deadline. They spend their whole wad in the off-season with CC, AJ & Tex, but had more money come off the books with Abreu, Giambi & Mussina. The sons are not spending like George, and their payroll is going down.

TAL

We'll have to see how this year's offseason plays out. The Yankees have not gotten anybody yet, but they really don't have a big need right now. They are pretty set with the team they have. I wonder if they will be as good as they were last year, or will winning the World Series cause them to be a little lax?

[dauls]

Everybody wants to keep Werth, who will be a $15M to $20M signing, if he has a good to super year with good being at '09 numbers.

We want J-Dub to have a super year, because no one will want him to have an off year.

However, if I read my Rubes correctly, The Phillies will dole out big money $15M to $20M (tops) to Halladay (or Lee), Rynosaur, Utley and Hamels.

We want Cole to come up big, and when he does he'll be 1 of 4 guys with big tickets: 2 starters and 2 position players.

4 guys @ $60M to $80M seems to be the ceiling, if I read my Rubes right.

Everything else is a dream. Keep in mind there is only 1 big ticket left to buy: Cole Hamels OR a starting stud hurler.

TAL

We may want to keep Werth beyond 2010, but Ryan Howard is a free agent after the 2011 season.

So the Phillies will probably have their eyes on Howard's new contract when it comes to negotiating with Werth at the end of the 2010 season.

Either way, hope Werth has a great 2010.

[smc]

The Yankees have not gotten anybody yet

C'mon, guys, we all need to pay closer attention. I can't believe you don't know about these BIG-name signings by the Yankees:

Royce Ring, a lefty reliever, to a minor-league contract

Reid Gorecki, outfielder, to a minor-league contract

David Winfree, outfielder, to a minor-league contract

Boone Logan, relief pitcher

These are massive signings, future Hall-of-Fame signings!!!!

Just ask one of the Steinbrenner assholes.

[shadows]

C'mon, guys, we all need to pay closer attention. I can't believe you don't know about these BIG-name signings by the Yankees:

Royce Ring, a lefty reliever, to a minor-league contract

Reid Gorecki, outfielder, to a minor-league contract

David Winfree, outfielder, to a minor-league contract

Boone Logan, relief pitcher

These are massive signings, future Hall-of-Fame signings!!!!

Just ask one of the Steinbrenner assholes.

Are you sure those aren't the signings from the Jays?:lol:

[Talvenada]

Are you sure those aren't the signings from the Jays?:lol:

SHADOW:

It's pretty difficult for an AL East team to beat NYY and/or BOS, and any AL team to win the WC. It's those 2 and 2 other teams that have to win their division. I'm glad my team is in The NL.

TAL

[smc]

Are you sure those aren't the signings from the Jays?:lol:

Nah, the Jays have been sniffing around the girl's softball league I used to run, wondering whether they could pass off some of the shorter-haired kids (acquired, of course, for next to nothing), as boys.

[shadows]

Nah, the Jays have been sniffing around the girl's softball league I used to run, wondering whether they could pass off some of the shorter-haired kids (acquired, of course, for next to nothing), as boys.

My sister is a pretty good pitcher. She could probably throw her fastball(and it isn't even overhand) and it would probably strike out Vernon Wells!:eek::respect:

Of course, that's not saying much. A ball rolling along the ground at 5 mph would garner a strikeout from him.:frown:

[transjen]

Way can't a girl pitch in the NL or AL?
Even thou i no longer have balls of my own i bet i can still play shortstop very well just don't ask me to hit
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

[Talvenada]

Way can't a girl pitch in the NL or AL?
Even thou i no longer have balls of my own i bet i can still play shortstop very well just don't ask me to hit
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

JEN:

This is not meant to be insultive or offensive in ANY way.

But what kind of answer would you be expecting?


TAL

[shadows]

Way can't a girl pitch in the NL or AL?
Even thou i no longer have balls of my own i bet i can still play shortstop very well just don't ask me to hit
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

You would fit in very well with the Jays, Jen. They have not had a good-hitting shortstop in a loooooong time. They have had good defensive players there(Johnny Mac, for example), which have saved runs on quite a few plays.

I would prefer you to play that position than Johnny Mac. You would both be good defensively, but you are far prettier.:cool:

[smc]

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't suggesting that girls aren't as good as boys when it comes to playing ball, only that the perception would be that they would be less expensive to sign!

[transjen]

I would prefer you to play that position than Johnny Mac. You would both be good defensively, but you are far prettier.:cool:

I dout i would have made the pros, I was a good shortstop by little league standards had i stayed with it i may have made a colleage team but my poor hitting would have kept me out of the minors
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

I dout i would have made the pros, I was a good shortstop by little league standards had i stayed with it i may have made a colleage team but my poor hitting would have kept me out of the minors
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Bah! Have you seen some of the players that actually make gross amounts of cash? Some of them are horrible hitters! I'll bet that you could outhit quite a few of them, Jen. Don't forget, you would have coaches(Major League ones) to help work on your swing. You could do it!:)

[Talvenada]

I dout i would have made the pros, I was a good shortstop by little league standards had i stayed with it i may have made a colleage team but my poor hitting would have kept me out of the minors
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen


JEN:

This is not meant to be insultive or offensive in ANY way.

It sounds like you couldn't hit the fastball, was that your hitting problem?


TAL

[transjen]

JEN:

This is not meant to be insultive or offensive in ANY way.

It sounds like you couldn't hit the fastball, was that your hitting problem?


TAL I think my problem was when it was my turn to bat i'd hear from my own team thats the next out so i'd just go up and swing at anything just three straight swings then sit down once in a blue moon i'd get lucky and mange a hit

[smc]

I think my problem was when it was my turn to bat i'd hear from my own team thats the next out so i'd just go up and swing at anything just three straight swings then sit down once in a blue moon i'd get lucky and mange a hit

When I was coaching, I would bench any player -- even my best player -- for saying something like that, even if it was only whispered to someone else. What an outrage!

[transjen]

When I was coaching, I would bench any player -- even my best player -- for saying something like that, even if it was only whispered to someone else. What an outrage! well kids are cruel and unfornatly so are some so called adults plus as a kid i had low selfesteam
do too well you can guess why

:frown: Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

well kids are cruel and unfornatly so are some so called adults plus as a kid i had low selfesteam
do too well you can guess why

:frown: Jerseygirl Jen

And they wonder why so many people suffer from low self-esteem any more. I was bullied in school and never really had much desire to play a game where the bullies would be on the same team as me.

[Talvenada]

What are The Sox trying to do with Lowell and his $12M after signing Beltre to play 3B for $10M?


Has anybody heard anything?

[smc]

The conventional wisdom in Red Sox Nation regarding Mike Lowell is that since he has passed the "healthy threshold" in the off-season, once he demonstrates in Spring training that he can still move sufficiently well defensively he will be attractive enough for the Red Sox to secure the trade deal the team was unable to complete with the Rangers.

Beltre is a great acquisition, but Lowell will be sorely missed. He is a fan favorite, a genuinely good guy, and a tremendous clutch performer.

[Talvenada]

Thnx.

Will The Sox have to eat any of that $12M or will TEX pay it all?

[smc]

I should have written "a trade deal, which the team was unable to complete with the Rangers." That deal fell apart; there is no deal within which the Red Sox would have to eat part of Lowell's salary on behalf of the Rangers. I would suspect that they will have to do so with some other team, though. I doubt the Rangers will revive the original trade.

[smc]

Everyone has their favorite signs that spring is here, or at least on its way. I like the first robin that shows up in my yard, back from the south. But my favorite one is when pitchers and catchers start reporting for spring training. And today, despite that the official date is next Thursday, Jon Lester and Jonathan Papelbon were throwing the baseball around the field in Fort Meyers. Kevin Youkilis is in town, too, playing catch and having fun.

Go Red Sox!

[shadows]

Everyone has their favorite signs that spring is here, or at least on its way. I like the first robin that shows up in my yard, back from the south. But my favorite one is when pitchers and catchers start reporting for spring training. And today, despite that the official date is next Thursday, Jon Lester and Jonathan Papelbon were throwing the baseball around the field in Fort Meyers. Kevin Youkilis is in town, too, playing catch and having fun.

Go Red Sox!

*looks out the window and sees the several inches of snow that fell Tuesday and Wednesday*

Darn it. I would rather see the robin.;)

[Talvenada]

*looks out the window and sees the several inches of snow that fell Tuesday and Wednesday*

Darn it. I would rather see the robin.;)


SHADOW:

Yesterday, they started the local sports show in a snow-covered ballpark here in Philly, while the snow continued to fall. We got 2 2-foot storms in the last week.


TAL

[Talvenada]

Spring arrives when the photos reveal the equipment being loaded onto the truck at the ballpark to be shipped to Florida.

[shadows]

SHADOW:

Yesterday, they started the local sports show in a snow-covered ballpark here in Philly, while the snow continued to fall. We got 2 2-foot storms in the last week.


TAL

Yuck! That would have been a pain to dig yourself out of I would imagine!:eek:

[Talvenada]

Yuck! That would have been a pain to dig yourself out of I would imagine!:eek:

SHADOW:

Well, the last 10 or so years have been too kind to Philly with winter weather, but it finally caught up to us. Seeing the baseball equipment going to Florida helped a bit.


TAL

[shadows]

SHADOW:

Well, the last 10 or so years have been too kind to Philly with winter weather, but it finally caught up to us. Seeing the baseball equipment going to Florida helped a bit.


TAL

I imagine it would. Not too long now until Spring Training!:cool:

[ila]

Everyone has their favorite signs that spring is here, or at least on its way. I like the first robin that shows up in my yard, back from the south. But my favorite one is when pitchers and catchers start reporting for spring training. And today, despite that the official date is next Thursday, Jon Lester and Jonathan Papelbon were throwing the baseball around the field in Fort Meyers. Kevin Youkilis is in town, too, playing catch and having fun.

Go Red Sox!

I just read in the paper this morning that the day that the Sox head off for spring training is known as Truck day in Boston (actually the paper said New England, but I find it hard to believe that all of New England supports the BoSox). Is that the real term, smc, or is someone trying to coin a new phrase? Apparently yesterday was Truck day.

[smc]

I just read in the paper this morning that the day that the Sox head off for spring training is known as Truck day in Boston (actually the paper said New England, but I find it hard to believe that all of New England supports the BoSox). Is that the real term, smc, or is someone trying to coin a new phrase? Apparently yesterday was Truck day.

Yes, it absolutely is known as Truck day -- and it was this morning, not yesterday. It's a tradition that goes back a dozen years or so. I realize how difficult for people in other parts of the world (even cities with MLB teams) to realize just how big a deal baseball is in Boston. With all due respect to our Phillies fans on the board, the only city that comes close is St. Louis. Even Chicago Cubs fans pale in comparison.

Not convinced? When the Red Sox play in Tampa Bay, Baltimore, or Toronto, Red Sox fans consistently outnumber fans of the local team. Those are not transplants; those are people who've traveled from Boston! I myself have arranged work-related travel to see Red Sox games elsewhere, or just flat-out driven, or even flown at my own expense, over the years, and have rooted for the Red Sox in Oakland, Kansas City, Detroit, Toronto, Baltimore, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, and elsewhere. I've even done so in Yankee Stadium, and that takes some seriously steel nerves!

I went to Truck Day last year, but couldn't change my schedule this year. There are usually a lot of people there to see the trucks off. Kids like it because the Sox mascot, Wally the Green Monster, usually "directs traffic" once the trucks are loaded and ready to head out for the highway.

There will surely be up-to-the-minute reports on local Boston TV and radio as the trucks make their way south, too. See what I mean!

Now, regarding New England. First of all, the real borders of New England are not the same as the six states (Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont) that officially make up the region. Real New Englanders -- among which I count myself -- know that the western border is not the Connecticut-New York state line but runs down the middle of the Housatonic River. If you look on a map, you will notice that this real border conveniently eliminates the Yankees territory of southwestern Connecticut. Coincidence? I think not.

Sure, there are some people in New England who do not root for the Red Sox. But of those I know, they are either transplants from elsewhere, with very thick skins (because it's hard not to fall into the Red Sox mania if you love baseball and come from a "weak" baseball city), Yankees fans who go around boasting (and who get the shit kicked out of them, at least figuratively, on a regular basis), or people who have been brainwashed as part of keeping their "mixed marriages" from ending in the special divorce court set up on Yawkey Way next to Fenway. (Yes, in Red Sox Nation, we refer to a marriage between a Yankees fan and a Red Sox fan as a "mixed marriage.")

[ila]

^ Thanks for the info, smc.

[GRH]

I'm not a New England native, so I haven't really bought into Red Sox mania. I'm from Atlanta originally, so I still feel as if I have roots there. But you've got to respect ANY team that has a rivalry with the Yankees. I don't really care to see Boston win so much as I LOVE seeing the Yankees lose.

[dauls]

I'm not a New England native, so I haven't really bought into Red Sox mania. I'm from Atlanta originally, so I still feel as if I have roots there. But you've got to respect ANY team that has a rivalry with the Yankees. I don't really care to see Boston win so much as I LOVE seeing the Yankees lose.

:respect: the anti-Yankees sentiment.

I've always hated those damn Yankees :p, and what they did to my beloved Phillies in October didn't help the situation.:frown:

150732

[Talvenada]

:respect: the anti-Yankees sentiment.

I've always hated those damn Yankees :p, and what they did to my beloved Phillies in October didn't help the situation.:frown:

150732

DUALS:

It was just a REIGN DELAY!!


TAL

[dauls]

DUALS:

It was just a REIGN DELAY!!


TAL

:lol: Amusing. But it still doesn't ease the pain. Those :censored: Yankees.


:confused: ? duals ? :confused:

Tal, Whilst a friend of mine who shares my birthday refers to me as his twin, there is only one of me. Try dauls NOT duals ;)

[transjen]

Frank Thomas called it a career
So after 19 yrs and 532 HR and i think around 2000 hits is he a hall of famer?

:p Jerseygirl Jen

[Talvenada]

:lol: Amusing. But it still doesn't ease the pain. Those :censored: Yankees.


:confused: ? duals ? :confused:

Tal, Whilst a friend of mine who shares my birthday refers to me as his twin, there is only one of me. Try dauls NOT duals ;)

DAULS:

Sorry, I've been transposing your name without a clue.

TAL

[shadows]

Frank Thomas called it a career
So after 19 yrs and 532 HR and i think around 2000 hits is he a hall of famer?

:p Jerseygirl Jen

Pretty good numbers but I don't think they are worthy of the Hall.

[smc]

Frank Thomas called it a career
So after 19 yrs and 532 HR and i think around 2000 hits is he a hall of famer?

:p Jerseygirl Jen

I'm not sure how I would vote, but I am pretty sure the real voters will not select Frank Thomas.

[transjen]

Pretty good numbers but I don't think they are worthy of the Hall.At one time hiting 500 HR was an automatic ticket to Copperstown, The only thing that would stop me from voting for him would be if it came out he was on roids

:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

[dauls]

At one time hiting 500 HR was an automatic ticket to Copperstown, The only thing that would stop me from voting for him would be if it came out he was on roids

:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

Frank Thomas has been one of MLB's more vocal anti-steroids players over the past decade or so. I think pretty much everyone would be stunned if his name was to be tarnished by a roids scandal.

I always thought fans and reporters saw him as a definite future Hall of Famer, especially if he made it to 500 HR.

OK his career average fell approx. 20 points to .301 during the 'noughties', but that surely won't count against him when the voters see his name on the ballot.

His number is being retired by the White Sox in August. How many players with retired numbers have failed to become Hall of Famers?

Big Frank should be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.:yes::cool:

[shadows]

At one time hiting 500 HR was an automatic ticket to Copperstown, The only thing that would stop me from voting for him would be if it came out he was on roids

:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

I would be shocked to hear his name being linked to steroids, but I guess stranger things have happened(such as A-Roid finally performing in the Playoffs...unfortunately).:eek:

[shadows]

For smc.;)


151071

[Talvenada]

SHADOW:

I listen to WFAN.com in NY and Mike Francesa (big NYY fan), and he says the top 3 teams are The Yankees, Sox & Phillies.

I realize you're a Jays fan, but if it came down to those 3 teams, who would you root for? At least, The Phillies have Doc to root for.


TAL

[smc]

Thanks. What makes it even funnier is that I've heard almost this exact conversation before.

[shadows]

SHADOW:

I listen to WFAN.com in NY and Mike Francesa (big NYY fan), and he says the top 3 teams are The Yankees, Sox & Phillies.

I realize you're a Jays fan, but if it came down to those 3 teams, who would you root for? At least, The Phillies have Doc to root for.


TAL

Out of the three I would pick the Phillies. Not just due to them having Doc, but also for the fact that they are not divisional rivals to the Jays.:)

[shadows]

Thanks. What makes it even funnier is that I've heard almost this exact conversation before.

No problem. Glad you liked it.:)

[smc]

Out of the three I would pick the Phillies. Not just due to them having Doc, but also for the fact that they are not divisional rivals to the Jays.:)

Wait a minute. Rooting for a "divisional rival" is verboten, but the traitorous act of switching to a National League team is acceptable?

Who are you? Louis Riel?

:lol: ;)

[Talvenada]

Out of the three I would pick the Phillies. Not just due to them having Doc, but also for the fact that they are not divisional rivals to the Jays.:)


SHADOW:

I'm not surprised by your choice, but it is fun to warm-up for the season.

I can understand how you wouldn't want to root for NYY or BOS after years of looking up in the standings, like BAL & TB.

Francesa considers those 3 teams to be head and shoulders above whoever is next on the pecking order, are didn't name a 1, 2 or 3.

TAL

[transjen]

Wait a minute. Rooting for a "divisional rival" is verboten, but the traitorous act of switching to a National League team is acceptable?

Who are you? Louis Riel?

:lol: ;) I see nothing wrong with having a fav NL team and a fav AL team

My fav NL team is the Phillies

While my fav AL team is the Orioles
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

I see nothing wrong with having a fav NL team and a fav AL team

My fav NL team is the Phillies

While my fav AL team is the Orioles
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Oh, Jen, I was just having some semi-obscure-Canadian-reference fun with shadows.

I have a favorite NL team, too. It's the Pirates. I just feel like they need to have a fan who cares.

No, seriously, I like other teams besides the Red Sox. I went to college in Maryland and spent lots of time at Orioles games, and still want to see the Orioles succeed ... despite being in the same division as the Sox.

I like the SF Giants because my grandfather taught me to like them when I was a kid. He was a NY Giants fan and they still showed SF games on NY television years after the Giants headed west.

Bottom line: I love baseball.

[shadows]

Oh, Jen, I was just having some semi-obscure-Canadian-reference fun with shadows.

I have a favorite NL team, too. It's the Pirates. I just feel like they need to have a fan who cares.

No, seriously, I like other teams besides the Red Sox. I went to college in Maryland and spent lots of time at Orioles games, and still want to see the Orioles succeed ... despite being in the same division as the Sox.

I like the SF Giants because my grandfather taught me to like them when I was a kid. He was a NY Giants fan and they still showed SF games on NY television years after the Giants headed west.

Bottom line: I love baseball.

No worries smc, I caught the Riel reference.;)

A Pirate fan, eh? It must be hard to watch that team! They trade away pretty well all of their talent when they are about to get a raise. I think the Pirates need new ownership otherwise there will be no change any time soon.:eek:

[shadows]

I see nothing wrong with having a fav NL team and a fav AL team

My fav NL team is the Phillies

While my fav AL team is the Orioles
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

I can live with you liking the Orioles(would be better if you liked the Jays...;):lol:), Jen. I am just glad you didn't say the Yankees.:)

[smc]

No worries smc, I caught the Riel reference.;)

A Pirate fan, eh? It must be hard to watch that team! They trade away pretty well all of their talent when they are about to get a raise. I think the Pirates need new ownership otherwise there will be no change any time soon.:eek:

Didn't you catch what followed the Pirates reference? "No, seriously ..."

I loved watching the Pirates back in the Willie Stargell days (okay, the crazy uniforms were a bit much to take), but I think Major League Baseball ought to step in and take that team away from the owners and force a sale to someone who cares!

(I knew you'd get the Riel reference. But I bet you didn't expect me to make that reference, my friend.)

[shadows]

Didn't you catch what followed the Pirates reference? "No, seriously ..."

I loved watching the Pirates back in the Willie Stargell days (okay, the crazy uniforms were a bit much to take), but I think Major League Baseball ought to step in and take that team away from the owners and force a sale to someone who cares!

(I knew you'd get the Riel reference. But I bet you didn't expect me to make that reference, my friend.)

I remember reading about the Harold Ballard days for the Toronto Maple Leafs. He did not give a shit whether or not the team did well so he put the crappiest(cheapest) team that he possibly could on the ice so he could get as much money in his pockets as possible. Thank goodness he is no longer the owner. With the Pirates, it seems like that is the exact same thought process for the owner. As long as money is being made, why would more money need to be spent on players?:no:

You're usually pretty good for a reference or two on any given night.:cool::)

[smc]

I remember reading about the Harold Ballard days for the Toronto Maple Leafs. He did not give a shit whether or not the team did well so he put the crappiest(cheapest) team that he possibly could on the ice so he could get as much money in his pockets as possible. Thank goodness he is no longer the owner. With the Pirates, it seems like that is the exact same thought process for the owner. As long as money is being made, why would more money need to be spent on players?:no:

You're usually pretty good for a reference or two on any given night.:cool::)

I must say about the Pirates, though, they have a great stadium. PNC Park, which opened in 2001, is an old-style ballpark, on the river, and you walk across a bridge that they close to cars on game nights. It's really a nice place to watch a game.

The problem is the game you end up watching, unfortunately.

[shadows]

I must say about the Pirates, though, they have a great stadium. PNC Park, which opened in 2001, is an old-style ballpark, on the river, and you walk across a bridge that they close to cars on game nights. It's really a nice place to watch a game.

The problem is the game you end up watching, unfortunately.

That would be the sort of park that I would love the Jays to have. The Rogers Centre is such a sterile and lifeless place to watch a ball game. That is not to say that I still wouldn't go there, as I've never been there live(always watched it on television).

[smc]

That would be the sort of park that I would love the Jays to have. The Rogers Centre is such a sterile and lifeless place to watch a ball game. That is not to say that I still wouldn't go there, as I've never been there live(always watched it on television).

I've been to Rogers Centre. You're right. It is a sterile and lifeless place to watch a ball game. However, before the powers-that-be started paying closer attention, it was a great place to watch people balling ... in the hotel.

[shadows]

I've been to Rogers Centre. You're right. It is a sterile and lifeless place to watch a ball game. However, before the powers-that-be started playing closer attention, it was a great place to watch people balling ... in the hotel.

Damn. I was hoping for a show with the game. Looks like that won't happen if I ever make it to the Rogers Centre now.:(

Unless someone streaks across the field like in the olden days.:lol:

[Talvenada]

I see nothing wrong with having a fav NL team and a fav AL team

My fav NL team is the Phillies

While my fav AL team is the Orioles
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

JEN:

This is not meant to be insultive or offensive in ANY way.

When I was growing up, I was disappointed that The A's had moved to KC, because I would have had a team in each league. Then, I found out that people around during those years were fans of one team or the other, and in NY it's still that way today with NYY or NYM for 95% of their baseball fans with the 5% showing up in October. The Angels and Dodgers seem to have that kind of relationship, The Giants and A's do too, and CWS and CHC do as well. Football and basketball fans are also in that same 1-team boat.

The old days in NY were: the snobs were Yankees fans, the white collars were Giants fans, and the blue collars were Dodgers fans.

I don't know what the story was in Boston with The Braves, but maybe The Professor will chime in.

I like the idea of having a team in each league--like CHI, NY, LA, SF-OAK--but I've yet to hear of any city doing it that way.


TAL

[transjen]

I can live with you liking the Orioles(would be better if you liked the Jays...;):lol:), Jen. I am just glad you didn't say the Yankees.:)Why i like the Orioles

Because of my grandfather, My grandfather my moms dad he lived in Maryland so a lot of times when my parents drove down for a visit my grandfather would take me and my brother and my sister to watch the Orioles play so i'd see players like Cal Ripken [my fav Oriole of all time] Eddie Murray Billy Ripken, I even got to meet Brooks Robinson who was way before my time but my grandfather got me to ask him to sign a baseball for me which i still have

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

Why i like the Orioles

Because of my grandfather, My grandfather my moms dad he lived in Maryland so a lot of times when my parents drove down for a visit my grandfather would take me and my brother and my sister to watch the Orioles play so i'd see players like Cal Ripken [my fav Oriole of all time] Eddie Murray Billy Ripken, I even got to meet Brooks Robinson who was way before my time but my grandfather got me to ask him to sign a baseball for me which i still have

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

That is a very nice reason, Jennifer.:)

[dauls]

I see nothing wrong with having a fav NL team and a fav AL team

My fav NL team is the Phillies

While my fav AL team is the Orioles
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

I have 13 favourite AL teams.;) I bet it's not hard to guess the damn team I didn't include in my AL favourites.:innocent:

But seriously out of those 13 I have a soft spot for the poor old Athletics.

Why? A friend of mine supports them and in 1990 we were travelling around the USA by Greyhound Bus (yes, really) when we stopped off to visit some his family in Danville, CA (10-20 miles east of Oakland). They wanted to take us to see the Athletics, but unfortunately our visit coincided with an Athletics road trip and we had to leave California before the A's returned home.:(

[smc]

The old days in NY were: the snobs were Yankees fans, the white collars were Giants fans, and the blue collars were Dodgers fans.

I don't know what the story was in Boston with The Braves, but maybe The Professor will chime in.

I assume that by "The Professor" you mean me. Let's nip calling me that in the bud right now, please.

I may be old, but I wasn't even born when the Braves left Boston in 1953. I do know lots of people who were around then, though, and generally they say that when the Braves were here the breakdown was somewhat along the following lines (at least in the last decade of the Braves being here): fans for whom the Red Sox mattered most, 80%; fans for whom the Braves mattered most, 20% (a big part of why they left); baseball fans who followed both teams and couldn't get enough, 99%. People old enough to remember still talk about seeing Warren Spahn pitch.

I will say it again: there is no city where baseball is more popular than Boston.

I think Talvenada's explanation of the "old days in NY" is oversimplistic. One side of my family was in New York (the other up here in Boston), and so I spent a lot of time down there. My mother grew up in Brooklyn and was a Dodgers fan for the same reason most people were: a combination of geography (what makes a Phillies fan a Phillies fan, e.g., is proximity to Philadelphia) and a feeling of rivalry with "the city" (i.e., Manhattan). It didn't matter whether she was from a blue-collar or white-collar family (although it happens to have been the former). My grandfather, her father, had lived on the Lower East Side after coming to this country and was a Giants fan (and couldn't have been more blue collar). I can't speak for Yankees fans. Hell, I can barely speak to Yankees fans

[Fantasex 76]

Halos fan since 74.

Atlanta Braves fan since 76.

[Talvenada]

I assume that by "The Professor" you mean me. Let's nip calling me that in the bud right now, please.

I may be old, but I wasn't even born when the Braves left Boston in 1953. I do know lots of people who were around then, though, and generally they say that when the Braves were here the breakdown was somewhat along the following lines (at least in the last decade of the Braves being here): fans for whom the Red Sox mattered most, 80%; fans for whom the Braves mattered most, 20% (a big part of why they left); baseball fans who followed both teams and couldn't get enough, 99%. People old enough to remember still talk about seeing Warren Spahn pitch.

I will say it again: there is no city where baseball is more popular than Boston.

I think Talvenada's explanation of the "old days in NY" is oversimplistic. One side of my family was in New York (the other up here in Boston), and so I spent a lot of time down there. My mother grew up in Brooklyn and was a Dodgers fan for the same reason most people were: a combination of geography (what makes a Phillies fan a Phillies fan, e.g., is proximity to Philadelphia) and a feeling of rivalry with "the city" (i.e., Manhattan). It didn't matter whether she was from a blue-collar or white-collar family (although it happens to have been the former). My grandfather, her father, had lived on the Lower East Side after coming to this country and was a Giants fan (and couldn't have been more blue collar). I can't speak for Yankees fans. Hell, I can barely speak to Yankees fans



SMC:

Thnx, for the info. I only have a very superficial knowledge of what happened in other cities in the late 40's and early 50's. My info comes from comments made about those days, which are few and far between.

I called you professor, because I though you taught college classes for PHD's.


It's nice to see one city get it right, and root for a team in each league.


TAL

[smc]

I called you professor, because I though you taught college classes for PHD's.

I do (how did you know that?), but I just don't want to be known as The Professor online. It's complicated, but it just doesn't work for me. Don't worry about it, though.

Here's a little piece of trivia about old Braves Field in Boston, for all you baseball fans out there. It opened in 1915, and was so huge that the first home run that wasn't of the inside-the-park variety wasn't hit until 1925! The original distance to center field was 550 feet!

[Talvenada]

I do (how did you know that?), but I just don't want to be known as The Professor online. It's complicated, but it just doesn't work for me. Don't worry about it, though.

Here's a little piece of trivia about old Braves Field in Boston, for all you baseball fans out there. It opened in 1915, and was so huge that the first home run that wasn't of the inside-the-park variety wasn't hit until 1925! The original distance to center field was 550 feet!

SMC;

I'd bet that Rynosaur could hit 1 or 2 out after 2-3 years, because he has hit some monster shot onto Ashburn Alley on the fly and over a 25-30 foot batting eye at The Bank in Philly. That fence is 440' to dead center.

No wonder there weren't a lot of homerun hitters back 100 years ago. I wonder if other fences were that deep, except those that were shoe-horned into place, like PHL, BOS, CHC, CIN, etc. It makes me wonder if the bandboxes were the talked-about parks, while the rest were much bigger parks with more real estate to work with, or if Boston was the exception.

TAL

[smc]

SMC;

I'd bet that Rynosaur could hit 1 or 2 out after 2-3 years, because he has hit some monster shot onto Ashburn Alley on the fly and over a 25-30 foot batting eye at The Bank in Philly. That fence is 440' to dead center.

No wonder there weren't a lot of homerun hitters back 100 years ago. I wonder if other fences were that deep, except those that were shoe-horned into place, like PHL, BOS, CHC, CIN, etc. It makes me wonder if the bandboxes were the talked-about parks, while the rest were much bigger parks with more real estate to work with, or if Boston was the exception.

TAL

I can't speak for Ryan Howard, but I'm pretty sure "1 or 2" would be the limit. I have seen some homers hit out of Fenway that go over the Green Monster, across Landsdowne Street, bounce on the parking lot on the other side of Landsdowne, and then go over the fence into speeding traffic on the Massachusetts Turnpike. That is a sight to behold.

My grandfather once told me that the outfield of the old Polo Grounds where the New York Giants played could have held every person in New York City if they stood straight and right up against each other. It was, of course, an exaggeration, but everything I've read confirms that (dimensions aside) the look of the place was like driving across Montana, but without the beautiful sky.

[Talvenada]

I can't speak for Ryan Howard, but I'm pretty sure "1 or 2" would be the limit. I have seen some homers hit out of Fenway that go over the Green Monster, across Landsdowne Street, bounce on the parking lot on the other side of Landsdowne, and then go over the fence into speeding traffic on the Massachusetts Turnpike. That is a sight to behold.

My grandfather once told me that the outfield of the old Polo Grounds where the New York Giants played could have held every person in New York City if they stood straight and right up against each other. It was, of course, an exaggeration, but everything I've read confirms that (dimensions aside) the look of the place was like driving across Montana, but without the beautiful sky.

SMC:

Just to add a point.

I should have been a bit clearer: the dead-center fence is 440', but the batting eye is 20-25 feet after the shrubbery. I don't know if you watched any WS games, because I know how it feels to have the season end sooner rather than later.


TAL

[smc]

John Lackey threw 40 fastballs off the mound on the very first day that pitchers and catchers were due at Red Sox spring training. 40! On the first day.

Every team in the AL should be quaking in fear!!!

[smc]

I'm guessing our Phillies fans are happy that Brad Lidge was able to throw 20 fastballs off a mound yesterday. Seems like he might come back very well from his surgery. The question, of course, is about his head. Thoughts, Jen?

[shadows]

John Lackey threw 40 fastballs off the mound on the very first day that pitchers and catchers were due at Red Sox spring training. 40! On the first day.

Every team in the AL should be quaking in fear!!!

The only knock on Lackey is that he started the past two seasons on the DL. He has stated that it wasn't something that he wanted to repeat, so he planned on doing things different this Spring Training. Not sure if throwing 40 pitches is something he used to do or not, but wouldn't you be worried that he was overworking himself so early?

[shadows]

I'm guessing our Phillies fans are happy that Brad Lidge was able to throw 20 fastballs off a mound yesterday. Seems like he might come back very well from his surgery. The question, of course, is about his head. Thoughts, Jen?

Although this question was directed towards Jen, I would like to add my two cents worth.:)

I think having Doc on their team will help Lidge immensely. Doc was demoted at one point earlier in his career and he endured it mentally and was able to come back a far better pitcher than he ever was before. Even though Lidge has had success before, the mental aspect of the game is a huge contributing factor, and I think that Doc can help him with that.:)

[transjen]

I'm guessing our Phillies fans are happy that Brad Lidge was able to throw 20 fastballs off a mound yesterday. Seems like he might come back very well from his surgery. The question, of course, is about his head. Thoughts, Jen?I think Lidge will be fine and i'm more conserned with Holmes finding his head



:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

The only knock on Lackey is that he started the past two seasons on the DL. He has stated that it wasn't something that he wanted to repeat, so he planned on doing things different this Spring Training. Not sure if throwing 40 pitches is something he used to do or not, but wouldn't you be worried that he was overworking himself so early?

Not worried. John Farrell is one of the best pitching coaches in baseball, and he wouldn't have allowed it if Lackey wasn't ready. I think Lackey is so thrilled to be playing in the every-game-feels-like-a-playoff-game atmosphere of Boston baseball that his adrenaline is going to overcome any minor hurts in spring training.

[shadows]

I think Lidge will be fine and i'm more conserned with Holmes finding his head



:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

Holmes is probably still trying to find his bearings after the Moriarty incident.;)

[smc]

Holmes is probably still trying to find his bearings after the Moriarty incident.;)

What in the world are you talking about, Dr. Watson?!

Moriarty played only one season in the majors, for the Orioles. I don't think Holmes ever came into contact with him. ;)

[shadows]

What in the world are you talking about, Dr. Watson?!

Moriarty played only one season in the majors, for the Orioles. I don't think Holmes ever came into contact with him. ;)

Moriarty was the dastardly fellow that sold the steroids to Big Mac(who thought that it was just a flu shot;)) and other MLB players and that is why he got punted from the Orioles. Plus the fact that he was caught "doing the deed" with the costume of the Oriole's mascot(I'm not even sure if there was anybody in the costume at the time:eek:) didn't help matters any.;)

[smc]

Moriarty was the dastardly fellow that sold the steroids to Big Mac(who thought that it was just a flu shot;)) and other MLB players and that is why he got punted from the Orioles. Plus the fact that he was caught "doing the deed" with the costume of the Oriole's mascot(I'm not even sure if there was anybody in the costume at the time:eek:) didn't help matters any.;)

Oh, that Moriarty. At least he wasn't caught with that creepy Phillies Fanatic costume, which looks like the bastard love-child of ALF from the old TV show and Jose Canseco's shrunken testicles.

Excuse me, now I have to go get that image out of my head ...

[shadows]

Excuse me, now I have to go get that image out of my head ...

Or create that costume for yourself.:p:lol::p

[smc]

Soon this thread will be hopping the way the hockey thread hops. Spring training games are in full bloom and are marching towards Opening Day. It is a well-known fact that baseball season means a better world for all.

It also brings out the craziness in people. Take my friend Pat, another Boston fan who nevertheless is buying into the hysteria here in Red Sox Nation that maybe our Old Towne Team doesn't have enough offense after losing Jason Bay and making no big-bat acquisitions in the off-season. Pat, who hates the Yankees as much as the next guy in these parts, told me the other day that there is no way the Red Sox will come in first in the the AL East division. Being a serious baseball fan, I replied that it is always a crap shoot in the strongest division in baseball, that the Yankees also have some offensive problems (mainly in the form of old men), but that perhaps it will be a wild-card year for our team.

Pat's response was to become quite agitated, quietly scream about the loss of Jason Bay, and "correct" me: "No, he said. You don't understand. The Yankees are going to win the division hands down. There's no question."

I offered Pat a friendly bet: I would pick the Red Sox and he would pick the Yankees (despite that a bet would mean he would root against his favorite team), and the loser would pick up the full tab in October at our favorite local oyster bar.

"No!" Pat insisted. "This is serious, and we should have a real bet. $50 says the Yankees win the division by 6 games or more!"

My instinct was to phone Pat's doctor. Clearly, he was having some sort of mental breakdown. But I made the bet. I mean, really, 6 games!

I tell this to all of you baseball fan friends here on the board only to remind you of the madness that will soon spread in those few cities where baseball is treated with religious, or near-religious fervor. Boston, of course, is the center of the baseball universe, but you know which few other places I mean: Philadelphia and St. Louis, primarily, and parts of Chicago (where genuine White Sox fans, and the 1/3 or so of Cubs fans who aren't just on some kind of bandwagon) reside.

[ila]

Soon this thread will be hopping the way the hockey thread hops. Spring training games are in full bloom and are marching towards Opening Day. It is a well-known fact that baseball season means a better world for all.

It also brings out the craziness in people. Take my friend Pat, another Boston fan who nevertheless is buying into the hysteria here in Red Sox Nation that maybe our Old Towne Team doesn't have enough offense after losing Jason Bay and making no big-bat acquisitions in the off-season. Pat, who hates the Yankees as much as the next guy in these parts, told me the other day that there is no way the Red Sox will come in first in the the AL East division. Being a serious baseball fan, I replied that it is always a crap shoot in the strongest division in baseball, that the Yankees also have some offensive problems (mainly in the form of old men), but that perhaps it will be a wild-card year for our team.

Pat's response was to become quite agitated, quietly scream about the loss of Jason Bay, and "correct" me: "No, he said. You don't understand. The Yankees are going to win the division hands down. There's no question."

I offered Pat a friendly bet: I would pick the Red Sox and he would pick the Yankees (despite that a bet would mean he would root against his favorite team), and the loser would pick up the full tab in October at our favorite local oyster bar.

"No!" Pat insisted. "This is serious, and we should have a real bet. $50 says the Yankees win the division by 6 games or more!"

My instinct was to phone Pat's doctor. Clearly, he was having some sort of mental breakdown. But I made the bet. I mean, really, 6 games!

I tell this to all of you baseball fan friends here on the board only to remind you of the madness that will soon spread in those few cities where baseball is treated with religious, or near-religious fervor. Boston, of course, is the center of the baseball universe, but you know which few other places I mean: Philadelphia and St. Louis, primarily, and parts of Chicago (where genuine White Sox fans, and the 1/3 or so of Cubs fans who aren't just on some kind of bandwagon) reside.

I think that you have a sure win, smc. Six games is clearly delusional thinking. The Yankees have deep pockets, but they're not deep enough to buy a division win by six games. Heck, the Yankees would have to buy every team in the AL and then fire all the players and coaches and still it is doubtful that they would win the division. (I confess. I don't like the Yankees, but only because they think they that if they spend enough on players that they can win a World Series; and that is the only reason that I don't like the Yankees).

[smc]

I think that you have a sure win, smc. Six games is clearly delusional thinking.

Thanks, ila.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post my plan as the season unfolds: I'm going to try to press the bet. I haven't decided yet which will work best -- do it when the Yankees are ahead (if they are), or when the Red Sox are ahead. My goal is to milk Pat's pockets for everything, and then (of course) because he is one of my best friends, give every cent back to him except for the tab at the oyster bar.

Oh, and make him wear a special t-shirt that I'm going to have made for him that he can wear to some local sports bar. It's going to say "Bitch for the Steinbrenners" on it.

[ila]

Thanks, ila.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post my plan as the season unfolds: I'm going to try to press the bet. I haven't decided yet which will work best -- do it when the Yankees are ahead (if they are), or when the Red Sox are ahead. My goal is to milk Pat's pockets for everything, and then (of course) because he is one of my best friends, give every cent back to him except for the tab at the oyster bar.

Oh, and make him wear a special t-shirt that I'm going to have made for him that he can wear to some local sports bar. It's going to say "Bitch for the Steinbrenners" on it.

:lol: That would be worth seeing.

[shadows]

Speaking of the Yankees...they got spanked by the Blue Jays yesterday 9-1! I realize that it's only Spring Training, but I love it when the Yankees lose!:cool:

[aw9725]

Time to jump in here. Greetings from Detroit! I am up here visiting relatives for Spring Break and everyone is talking about the Tigers (What else is there to do up here anyway? Talk about the Lions? I can get rich up here selling all my Colts stuff! :lol:).

It looks like Verlander and Bonderman both had good first outings--I am predicting Verlander will have his first 20 game season and win the Cy Young. Don't yet know about the addition of Johnny Damon--as one of my friends said--"It's good... for him"! Thoughts?

[transjen]

Taking a trip down to Clearwater to warm up and catch a few spring training games
:yes: Philliefan Jen

[smc]

Taking a trip down to Clearwater to warm up and catch a few spring training games
:yes: Philliefan Jen

Hooray, Jen! I'm so glad you were able to make this happen.

[ila]

Taking a trip down to Clearwater to warm up and catch a few spring training games
:yes: Philliefan Jen

Do you need a passenger? I wouldn't mind getting to a warmer climate for awhile. I'll even be a Phillies fan while I'm there.:)

[smc]

Do you need a passenger? I wouldn't mind getting to a warmer climate for awhile. I'll even be a Phillies fan while I'm there.:)

My god, I am just shocked. I never took ila for a whore before! :lol:

[ila]

My god, I am just shocked. I never took ila for a whore before! :lol:

I would only do it for Jen. After I get home it's back to the Jays.

[transjen]

Do you need a passenger? I wouldn't mind getting to a warmer climate for awhile. I'll even be a Phillies fan while I'm there.:)Sorry Ila but my brother is going with me, He's got the rooms and game tickets already and we're going down in stlye driving my Cuda conv and hopefully i'll be able to ride with my topp down


:yes: Philliefan Jen

[ila]

Sorry Ila but my brother is going with me, He's got the rooms and game tickets already and we're going down in stlye driving my Cuda conv and hopefully i'll be able to ride with my topp down


:yes: Philliefan Jen

Nothing like cruising in a Cuda with the top down. (Watch out for radar, Jen. Speeding tickets can be hard on the spending money.;))

[transjen]

Nothing like cruising in a Cuda with the top down. (Watch out for radar, Jen. Speeding tickets can be hard on the spending money.;))Kojak with the kodak on the ground is no problem it's the bear in the air who's a pain

:lol: Philliefan Jen

[shadows]

Time to jump in here. Greetings from Detroit! I am up here visiting relatives for Spring Break and everyone is talking about the Tigers (What else is there to do up here anyway? Talk about the Lions? I can get rich up here selling all my Colts stuff! :lol:).

It looks like Verlander and Bonderman both had good first outings--I am predicting Verlander will have his first 20 game season and win the Cy Young. Don't yet know about the addition of Johnny Damon--as one of my friends said--"It's good... for him"! Thoughts?

It looks like Bonderman didn't have a good second outing. He got shelled by the Jays today.:)

And the Yankees LOST AGAIN! 11-0 to the Twins.:respect:

[smc]

It looks like Bonderman didn't have a good second outing. He got shelled by the Jays today.:)

And the Yankees LOST AGAIN! 11-0 to the Twins.:respect:

My friend, you do realize that in these games lots of guys who will never make the team for the real season are playing, and that pitchers are working only an inning or two, right?

So, don't get your hopes up about the Jays doing a lot of winning or the Yankees doing a lot of losing. In time, the AL East ship will right itself as it sets sail for the season, and then we'll see whether the Jays are in 3rd or 4th or even 5th place (I see the Orioles having an unexpectedly good season).