Self Defense

[aw9725]

I decided to start this thread after I read about what happened to one of our members. Hope we can share our experiences and ideas. No one should ever have to live in fear.

[aw9725]

No one should have to live in fear. Period. That I’m sure, we can all agree on. Since joining this forum, I have read far too many posts about acts of violence towards transgendered individuals or their admirers. While I truly believe our society has become more tolerant regarding race and gender, the harsh reality is that not everyone is so nice and accepting. This was not an easy post for me to write. But after learning about what some of you have had to deal with (most recently our member who was assaulted--by several attackers) I felt I had to.

You are a good person. You are open-minded and very tolerant of others. You probably don’t go around picking fights with others and you would like to live your own life in peace. You probably have friends who are just like you. You and your friends would never ever think of harming anyone. Some of you probably don’t even like watching violent movies. Unfortunately, as we have all-too-often experienced with hate crimes, there are those individuals who because of “racial” or “anti-gay” or “gender” prejudice want to hurt you for no other reason than who you are… In a perfect world, these scum wouldn’t even exist. But the world we live in is not perfect. You do not want to become a victim. Nor should you have to live your life in fear from anybody. Ever. From a practical perspective, what can you do about it?

For starters, I think taking a “self defense” class or studying Karate or some other martial art is a good idea. Find a class or instructor nearby--and make sure you are comfortable with the “style” and method of teaching. You don’t have to become a “Black Belt” either--knowing a few simple but effective techniques is fine. You should practice these basic “moves” over and over until you are sure you can use them against someone. This can even be fun to do with friends--just don’t get too carried away! Also, don’t worry that you are not Jet Li or Chuck Norris or “Trinity” in “The Matrix.” That stuff is better left in the movies anyway. Working out regularly and being in shape is good too. Attackers are less likely to choose someone who walks and acts confidently. If you are in a group, that will further lessen the chances that you will become a victim. You’re probably thinking: that’s easy for me to say since I’m a pretty big guy. But what if you are like 5’5” and 120? And alone? Despite what you see on TV and in movies--there are times when even having a Black Belt isn’t going to do much good against someone who is bigger and stronger or when you are dealing with multiple attackers (which seems to be the “pattern” of many hate crimes).

Which brings us to the most difficult and controversial question regarding self-defense. Should you buy a gun? That is not an easy question to answer. Speaking totally for myself, I am politically somewhat liberal (at least on “social justice” issues--I am a champion of individual rights and freedoms) as are probably many people on this forum. The “second amendment” in the United States gives us the “right to keep and bear arms.” Not everyone agrees with this. Almost all of my colleagues at my university are opposed to anyone owning a handgun. You may be opposed to even the idea of carrying a handgun. If so, you may want to leave it at learning Karate. Nothing wrong with that! My own upbringing included learning about firearms. My dad was a Korean War veteran and two of my uncles served in Vietnam--and were hunters. Yes, I own a handgun (a SIG P229 .40 caliber for anyone who cares or knows about this stuff) and have a permit to carry. Sometimes I do carry. Should you?

First of all you must realize that we are talking about potentially taking the life of another. Are you prepared to do that? Have you ever thought about it? Would you be able to “pull the trigger” on someone? Realistically, most of us (including me) unless we have been in military combat or law enforcement, can’t honestly answer that question until the moment. But you must at least consider the consequences. Shooting a gun isn’t as it appears on TV. Guns are loud (very loud--I was watching “Die Hard 3” the other day where Bruce Willis takes out like five guys in an elevator--his ears would be ringing for weeks), they kick, they are complex to operate (especially automatics), and require (like anything else) training and practice to master. They also, if you don’t know what you are doing, can be as dangerous to yourself as to your opponent! Finally, there are strict laws governing the ownership and carrying of handguns. Believe me, you don’t want to shoot yourself or get “busted”! Look up “Plaxico Burress” for more information on this. Check the laws where you live before you purchase a gun. If you are going to carry it--get a permit. There is also the question of what happens after you have shot someone in self defense. Be prepared to be questioned by the police, maybe even taken in for questioning--assuming your gun was “legal”--otherwise you will most likely be arrested and facing prosecution and maybe jail time. And this last part is the most difficult and perhaps the most serious issue--assuming you have had to use your gun, you have now killed or seriously wounded someone in self-defense… you have to ask yourself if that is something you will be able to live with for the rest of your life.

If you can get all of the above straight in your head… next, you need to choose a handgun that is right for you. My advice is to go to a reputable dealer--one that also has a range and offers instruction--and try several models out--don’t be shy about it! Also don’t be afraid to admit you don’t know anything or that you have never even shot a gun before. There is a first time for everything. This is also a time to check your own head out--does even holding a gun bother you? Do you hold it like you would rather not even be touching it? If so, then maybe this is not the time. If you are OK with it, then my advice for what it’s worth is: 1) Forget anything you have seen in the movies--Clint Eastwood’s .44 Magnum or Arnold’s .45 Long Slide “with laser sighting”--are not for you. 2) Calibers worth considering include: 9mm, .38 Special, or possibly even a .40 automatic. 3) A .22, .25, or .32 can kill but doesn’t have much “stopping power”--shoot someone with a .22 and they will die--after they have taken you out. 4) Make sure the gun “feels” good in your hand--remember it will kick and you want to be able to deal with that. You can always get “custom” grips to fit your hand. I recommend it. 5) Try a few different models out if you can--if you have never shot a gun before--now is the time! Make sure you have your hearing protectors and glasses on. You might be nervous at first but you will find you can do it. I am also assuming you will receive qualified instruction at a range. This is not “backyard practice” time. You can get in lots of trouble firing a gun within city limits most places and what if you shoot someone by accident? 6) Some of the “big names” like Colt, S&W, Beretta, SIG, etc. are very expensive. There is a company called Taurus that makes good quality firearms and has models similar to the others--for a lot less. Don’t buy a cheap “Saturday Night Special”--you want it to be reliable--and legal! 7) Sign up for a course and learn to shoot--they will also teach you about gun safety and how to work your particular model, i.e. loading and unloading, cocking, safeties, aiming, etc. I can’t stress this last point enough--some automatics are complex--remember, you want to be able to carry this thing easily and inconspicuously, and draw it without searching around for it in your purse or bag or catching it on your clothes. If you ever have to draw on someone for real, it won’t be like on TV, and it won’t be like at the range. It will be dark, you will be scared (hey that’s OK--I would be too!), you might be tired or have had a couple of drinks, and now is not the time to be wondering where you put the damn thing or how to aim and shoot.

Finally, I want to emphasize that you stay “legal.” Also practice, practice, and practice some more. And don’t let the fact that you are carrying a gun make you overconfident. Having a gun doesn’t instantly make you a “badass.” Don’t “wave it around,” or show it to everyone at the club and don’t suddenly start going into places you used to avoid. The reason you bought one is to possibly save your life. Never forget that. You are still the same sensible person you were before. You still want to avoid getting into a life-or-death situation if you can. But as we all know, sometimes it can’t be avoided. That’s what you will be prepared for.

[crossingoceans]

Really good post man! And you're totally right about this.

BTW what's your opinion on carrying guns for self defense?

[DSL]

Well i never had any real hard lessons in street fighting, self defence
that is which is one of the reasons i carry a handgun.
i do have a license to carry a ( class A large capacity for All Lawful Purposes )
which means i can carry it any where execpt bank, post office, police station,
fire dept., anywhere else is fine. if i am approached or harassed in any way all i need to do is just reveal it, like pull it out then put it back that should
make them think twice, i only have just one handgun one is enough.

[johndowe]

Really good post man! And you're totally right about this.

BTW what's your opinion on carrying guns for self defense?

Hi there.

The problem with guns and those who carry them is, that first and foremost, shooting a target is very easy, shooting another human beeing is very hard, even shooting an animal is hard the first time when hunting.

If you are carying a gun, if you pull it out you have to be ready to use it, because most of the slime you will have to pull it out on know that a "normal" person will find it VERY hard to shoot someone.

Which brings me to the second thing, if you pull your gun and you back down you place yourself at even greater risk of getting hurt, and even beeing taken down and shot with your OWN gun.

And third it takes 2 of 3 things to shoot someone (for the first time anyway):

- Alot of stupidity, and disregard for human life.

- Alot of fear for your life and hatred of your opponent.

- And the ability to override your sence of wrong when you are about to squeeze the trigger.

It takes a realy disgusting person to kill someone for the only reason of wanting others to fear him, and such a person would deserve to be killed himself to prothect others from him, but doing so would place you in the same path as he was.

And killing someone is only the begining, you HAVE to live with it for the rest of your life, that and the fact that if he was part of a gang, the others will likely come after you, and then you have to kill them or they kill you, you have to remember that while they ARE cowards, they have been embolden by being part of the gang and the "safety in numbers" it generates, so they WILL come after you.

And the cops aren't much help either, they will treat you as a suspect, and even if they know that you acted in self defence, they cannot do anything to help because of A) They are afraid of the gangs, and B) They are out gunned by the gangs And C) The law is too soft and criminals are not rehabilitated, and the death penalty is alnost never envoqued, and when it is they get stay of execution, after stay of execution, which there should only be 1 or 2 permited afterwards, they would be dis-regarded.

So where are those super heroes when you need them?

JohnDowe.

[tslust]

John makes some good points. I haven't had to pull my pistol on anyone, but if I had to, I would and I'd use it. My concealed carry instructor told us, "Deadly force must be used only as a last resort." and "This is the most important class you'll ever take. After today, you'll have the power of life and death in your hands and the responsibility not to use it."

[DSL]

Oh yes
i forgot i do use pepper spray for defence also, i cannot use stunguns, the law says no way! stunguns are outlawed in our state.
strange law we have here on guns they are okey to have and stunguns are not,but with some people, pepper spray has no effect on them i herd
which is why i carry either one of them and both holstered.
if i have too i will just cross the street to avoid confrontations in the wee morning hours, but they are probably more afraid of me then i am of them
i worry more when they walk in groups too like 4 am in the morning going to work.

[aw9725]

My concealed carry instructor told us, "Deadly force must be used only as a last resort." and "This is the most important class you'll ever take. After today, you'll have the power of life and death in your hands and the responsibility not to use it."

Hopefully this point was obvious in my original post. But it is still worth repeating. The whole idea of having a gun is as a last resort to save your life.

Also, I'm glad to see that you carry responsibly and have had instruction.

Be safe out there! :cool:

[aw9725]

So where are those super heroes when you need them?


Well, that would be me. But you can't find a telephone booth to change in these days! ;)

Seriously, one of my other main points was that if you have any moral or ethical issues with carrying or using a handgun--Don't do it! Learn some basic self defense "moves." Know your surroundings. Travel in groups. Keep your cell phone handy. etc.

We could discuss whether or not the world would be better off without guns but the fact is they are out there and are one option for self defense. Especially if one is small or outnumbered. Your attacker may likely have a gun. I believe that we all have the right to self defense. As I said "No one should have to live in fear. Period." :cool:

[aw9725]

Someone asked me for recommendations. Here are two:

The first is a "Smith & Wesson" Model 19 .357 Magnum. But you don't want to load it with "magnums" until you are a more experienced shooter. Try a ".38 Special" hollowpoint instead. Notice the grips.

The second is a "Beretta" Model 92 9mm. Again you can use hollowpoints for self-defense. I used to own one and taught my "ex" to shoot with it. FYI - she was about 5'5" and 125-130.

I couldn't help but include the last picture. Clint definitely has the "biggest"! LOL! Can you spot the "subliminal message"? It's even pointing straight UP!

[DSL]

I got a 357 magnum just like the model 19 you posted and i would recommend
the model 19 too. i use 357 shotshells for defense. also another good gun
is a 380 auto its like the 9m/m too but smaller and lighter and hardly any kick its also like a ladies auto too.
if this gun is for a lady then i would recommend the glock 380 auto.

Someone asked me for recommendations. Here are two:

The first is a "Smith & Wesson" Model 19 .357 Magnum. But you don't want to load it with "magnums" until you are a more experienced shooter. Try a ".38 Special" hollowpoint instead. Notice the grips.

The second is a "Beretta" Model 92 9mm. Again you can use hollowpoints for self-defense. I used to own one and taught my "ex" to shoot with it. FYI - she was about 5'5" and 125-130.

I couldn't help but include the last picture. Clint definitely has the "biggest"! LOL! Can you spot the "subliminal message"? It's even pointing straight UP!

[suebone]

My sis and I each have a beretta 9mm. We went to the range the other day .I out shot her.What a sight we were.:lol:
But I carry my pepper spray more often than the gun,don't need some crazy taking it.:no: sue b
(short & sweet)

[aw9725]

Really good post man! And you're totally right about this.

Thanks Icekiller! Glad you liked it. Yes. I think carrying a gun can be an effective means of self defense. Just remember to "stay legal," get training from a qualified instructor, handle your gun responsibly, and never forget that it should always be your "last resort." :cool:

[The Conquistador]

Knives also make for good defense weapons if you are unable to carry a firearm for what ever reason. The Democratic Peoples Republic of Kalifornia prohibits me from carrying a firearm on my person, so I carry cold steel. It is a blade I made from 5160 and 4140.

[aw9725]

I got a 357 magnum just like the model 19 you posted and i would recommend
the model 19 too. i use 357 shotshells for defense. also another good gun
is a 380 auto its like the 9m/m too but smaller and lighter and hardly any kick its also like a ladies auto too.
if this gun is for a lady then i would recommend the glock 380 auto.

DSL,

I went to S&W's site today and found that they quit making the "Model 19." There is a new Model "386" that has a seven shot cylinder. I've never fired one but it looks pretty good. See pic...

Bad news MSRP = $1,074!

Also like your suggestion of the .380. Good choice. You can get a Walther PPK in this caliber. "Bond, James Bond..."

[KittyKaiti]

I strongly believe in the right to self defense. Luckily I've never been in a physical fight but I have been in situations where it could have led to one. I carry a knife for emergencies. While in the house, I carry a holstered Sig Sauer P230, in case of home invasion. My neighbor was robbed a month ago, which is when I started carrying it on me in the house. I've also had an incident with a local gang who did a drive-by on my house, denting my car some as well as my roommate's car. The drive-by was not targeting us but a man was killed as a result, this also happened about a month ago but this is a whole 'nother story. I live up the street from a gang and drug zone. The three of us (me and my roommates) are trying to find a place to move to but we get denied all the time so far, we're all transsexuals. Anyway, I carry that gun on me in the house. I do not own a carrying permit, so the gun doesn't leave the house. My car is also a weapon. I've placed ram bars on it. Scares and deters criminals and annoys the police. Works very well at deterring crime. Pic is my car.

[aw9725]

Great idea! I like it. The cops don't like it 'cause it looks like one of them but there's nothing they can do about it. I had a friend that had a white Crown Vic and he put bars on it just like yours. Heck, I'd slow down if I saw you! ;)

[aw9725]

The Democratic Peoples Republic of Kalifornia prohibits me from carrying a firearm on my person, so I carry cold steel.

You think Governor "AH-nold" would have fixed that! :(

It is a blade I made from 5160 and 4140.

Sounds cool. Can you post a pic of it? :respect:

[The Conquistador]

You think Governor "AH-nold" would have fixed that! :(



Sounds cool. Can you post a pic of it? :respect:

Unfortunately, NO for both questions. California is way too "liberal" to let any legislation regarding lawful carry of firearms. The Governator has his hands tied with hippies and annoying soccer moms taking away individual rights "for the sake of the children".

Also all the pics were on my camera and it got lost. :(



Here's a pic you might enjoy.

[aw9725]

Thanks. Here's another...

[Rachel]

I own firearms because I want to. It is my right as an American citizen. Do I have a need for one? That should never be asked. Not the point, I have them because I want them. And if you think a .22 is no good , care to stand in front of me while I put a few in your face? I hunt for food and fun. Never had a problem killing deer or birds. I teach my sons to hunt too. I'm a bone collector love antlers. I'll stop for a road kill and take it's head. You should have seen the faces of all the big tough black guys I used to work with ( who always made fun of me) when I'd pull some rotten deer head out the side box on the truck and would cut it's antlers off. I told them I have no problem cutting the head off a rotten stinking deer carcass. I'll have even less problem cutting off your head your nice and fresh.

[aw9725]

I own firearms because I want to. It is my right as an American citizen. Do I have a need for one? That should never be asked. Not the point, I have them because I want them. And if you think a .22 is no good , care to stand in front of me while I put a few in your face? I hunt for food and fun. Never had a problem killing deer or birds. I teach my sons to hunt too. I'm a bone collector love antlers. I'll stop for a road kill and take it's head. You should have seen the faces of all the big tough black guys I used to work with ( who always made fun of me) when I'd pull some rotten deer head out the side box on the truck and would cut it's antlers off. I told them I have no problem cutting the head off a rotten stinking deer carcass. I'll have even less problem cutting off your head your nice and fresh.

What didn't you like about my post? I have a background in martial arts and was raised around firearms. I'm all for people standing up for their rights. No one should ever have to live in fear of anyone. I wrote it thinking it would help somebody--especially someone who never considered owning a gun or using one before--too many people become victims needlessly. I hope you realize I'm on YOUR side! :(

[tslust]

I have to agree with Rachel; while my .22 might not have "stopping power", it can kill someone just as dead as anything else. The disadvantage of using a larger caliber is (according to the law in my state); if you shoot your attacker and the bullet drills through your attacker and strikes and/or kills someone else, then you're responsible for the other person.

[aw9725]

If you are OK with using a .22 that's fine. My own handgun training discussed "stopping power" and whether or not an attacker might still be able to come after you. The minimum recommended was a .380. Some of the modern .22 loads with hollow points can pack a pretty good punch too so if you are OK using that then that's what you should go with.

It looks like we are beginning to lose track of the intent of my original posting which was to encourage people to not be afraid to stand up and defend themselves. Also if they do decide to get a gun--to learn how to use it--safely. I have taught many people how to shoot and several people on this forum have told me they really liked my post.

[Rachel]

Your posts were ok but you missed several important points I feel. One thing I do feel stongly on is Should you buy a gun? The answer should have been YES if for no other reason then that you CAN. Your liberal friends would have us all as subjects to the Crown in a disarmed populace. Another thing you didnt emphasize is a survival attitude. It's them or me! Fuck consequence! And I'll tell you this... Anyone ever did to me or my family like what happened to the member beaten up by cops there would be some people sporting some extra holes in them. Whomever they were.

[aw9725]

My own feelings on the matter are much like yours actually--almost identical. Perhaps I should have been more forceful in my original post? Did you see what I own? That I have a license to carry. That I do carry. I also have a 12 ga Remington 870 if anyone should break into my home as well as an AR-15. My liberal friends and I disagree about this issue (as well as many others). I am most definitely NOT your typical academic. ;) I was trying to "contrast" my own views with theirs--and obviously didn't do a very good job--at least in your eyes...

[KittyKaiti]

I live in New York so unfortunately, I can't own an AR-15. I want to move to Florida, where it is warmer and because gun laws are pretty awesome.

On a sad note, regarding the need for self defense and weapons, my roommate just informed me that two of her friends were murdered yesterday, both of them transsexuals, by gun shot. They apparently were witnesses to a murder. Witness protection apparently failed or the police simply didn't care.

[The Conquistador]

I live in New York so unfortunately, I can't own an AR-15. I want to move to Florida, where it is warmer and because gun laws are pretty awesome.

On a sad note, regarding the need for self defense and weapons, my roommate just informed me that two of her friends were murdered yesterday, both of them transsexuals, by gun shot. They apparently were witnesses to a murder. Witness protection apparently failed or the police simply didn't care.

I'm sorry to hear that.:( It seems that New York, Maryland and California have the most draconian laws regarding firearms. :censored:

[DSL]

Well i was listening to my police scanner yesterday afternoon
and i herd over the radio some guy got stabbed!, down the street from
where i live. it was so serious they rushed him to the hosiptal,
and 4 police cruisers there. which is one of the reasons why i pack
a handgun around here!... to top it off the local police dept. is just a half mile
away too.a guy at work had his bike stollen from him right out of his
apartment a brand new mongoose if that were my bike i
i told him i would have giving him my knight stick right up side of his head,
poor guy went out and got a new bike and he is unarmed.they will be more on the stabbing tonight on our local ch. 12 news.

[KittyKaiti]

I live about 1/4 miles away from a drug and gang zone called "Yates Village" which is an apartment complex neighborhood. Everyday and I literally mean EVERYDAY, police, fire and EMS speed by my house to go there. Everyday there is a stabbing, on occasion a shooting. Fortunately they seem to keep the violence and BS within their own little complex section but there have been incidents of crime at my house. I live in a small apartment building. My neighbor's apartment was robbed. The only thing missing was a big flat screen TV. Not long after, a shooting occurred right in front of my apartment and WE (my roommates and me) are involved in the incident. I posted a Myspace blog about what was going on. It's a gang issue. A man was killed in a drive-by on my front steps.

Not to de-rail the thread but for anyone interested in the gang issue, which is somewhat on subject, here is the blog I wrote about the gang incident at my apartment, copy and pasted:

"I am caught in the middle of a gang war in my city, Schenectady, New York. A guy me and my roommates used to be friends with stole $600 and a gun from me and $178 from my roommate. He fled before we knew he robbed from us. He was staying the night and while we slept, he took the items and left. We called police a couple days later, when we first noticed the stuff missing and filed a report. A warrant for his arrest was served for Grand Larceny in the Third Degree, a Class D felony in New York State. Weeks later the dumbass has the nerve to call my roommate and admits to stealing the money but denies stealing the gun. He claimed that he stole my money so he could bail his mother out of jail or some shit. He was supposedly in South Carolina or Georgia. A week ago we find out the truth. In the middle of the night, the brother of the guy who robbed us comes banging on the door of our apartment, covered in blood. My roommates refuse to open the door and call police. A minute later five gunshots are fired from a passing car. Apparently he dies of his wounds later on. The drive-by shooting resulted in dings, dents and scratches on my car and on my roommate's car from bullet impacts. We didn't know anything about what was going on, who came to the door and why this happened until a few days later when two gang members came to the house while me and one of my roommates was out. My second roommate was home alone and like a fucking idiot, answered the door and talked with the two men. They said that the guy who was shot was the brother of the man who stole from me. Apparently the guy who robbed me never left Schenectady. He stole the money and gun for a gang initiation. His dumbass joined a gang (Bloods, Crips, etc I don't know or care) and his brother stole $1,000 from him. That is why he was shot and chased to our apartment and then killed from the drive-by. These gang members that came to house are looking for revenge for the drive-by and want to know where the guy who robbed me is. They knew that he used to be friends with us and frequently hung out at our apartment. That is why they came, looking to kill him. My roommate explained that he no longer is friends with us because he robbed me. Even after the explanation, the idiots threaten to kill us if we had anything to do with the shooting. I get back from shopping with my roommate and she explains about who came to the apartment, etc. She doesn't want to call the police. She fears they will come back. Apparently they were coming back anyway because they want to talk to me. I said if they come back, people are gonna die. Not long after, guess who calls my roommate again.... the guy who robbed us, wanting to know if anyone came to the house asking about him. I'm now armed at all times while in the apartment and installed a security camera outside the apartment. If anyone tries coming back to this apartment, a fire fight is going to break out and I will put that shit on YouTube, unedited. I am now hunting for the guy who robbed me and the moment I find him, will chase him down and arrest him under citizens arrest laws. I couldn't actually care less about justice. I want my $600 back. So here I am now, in the middle of a gang war. Both sides have made threats or are threatening in nature toward me and my roommates. Police are useless because of their response time (about 45 minutes). Police are aware of the drive-by incident and are aware of the robbery incident. There is nothing else they can do. So at this point, I sit at home with a gun in a holster, on my waist, waiting for someone to try and fuck with me. Oh and what makes this worse is that gang members are typically not fond of transsexuals.

August 30 Update: The guy I am now hunting to get my money back has joined a variation of the Bloods. Apparently their color is yellow. They are from New York City. I didn't know what gang he joined but now I know. Bloods variant. I hate the Bloods. I've had previous problems with them when I used to live in Newburgh, New York. That issue didn't last too long and wasn't as severe as the current crisis. Today my roommate was driving home from the store and spotted the guy I was looking for. He saw her as well and fled into his house. I know where he lives now. I'm deciding on what I should do. If I was to call police, they can check out the house but without a warrant to search, they can't enter. He does have a felony warrant for his arrest though. Both of my roommates now fear an imminent attack because of the random run-in of my roommate and the guy. This is it. D-Day is closing in.

Additional Note: I previously stated that the guy I am hunting shot his brother because the brother stole $1,000 from the gang. This is not true. Apparently the guy I am hunting was required to both steal cash (he stole from me) and had to shoot his own brother, to get initiation into the gang. The murder and robbery was a gang initiation."


That's my blog. I am no longer hunting for the guy but the situation still exists. I carry a knife in my purse while out of the house. My car is a weapon as well as the high powered pellet rifle in the trunk of the car which can and will kill if shot in the right place. While in the house, I have a gun holstered on my waist. I also plan on buying pepper spray for my purse.

On a happier note, here is a banana fucking a banana >>>>> :coupling:

[The Conquistador]

On a happier note, here is a banana fucking a banana >>>>> :coupling:

you are the master!

[4inch]

Hott!!! I love an armed gurl... ;) Sexy!!! Don't know why anyone would ever want to hurt you though....

[Rachel]

Well Little Miss Pixie you struck a nerve with me. Unladylike? Hmm I thought we were talking life or death decisions here? And I thought you were talking about me head hunting road kills lol! And by the way Subjects of the Crown is a Revolutionary war era saying. And then you insulted all us Northerners by calling us Yankees. Be glad you live where you do. Here in New Germany( New Jersey) it's practically impossible to get a CCW permit unless you are very connected. I still carry occasionally though. I'd rather be judged by 12 then carried by six.

[Rachel]

20 years old and you think you know everything huh little girl? Maybe you should have a thread like Jenae's?

[Rachel]

Nah , all you kids are know- it- alls LOL. I should know I have 2 teenagers. And I supervise two 22 year olds at work. You still fighting the Civil War? WTF was with the Yankee remark? Apparently you have never met any of us Jersey Girls. I'm sorry we arent the polite Southern belles like you. I grew up in North Jersey in the city. Ran the streets before you were even a twinkle in your daddies eye kid. Been in more fights then you could imagine. And still have a pretty face at 44 years old. Wanna know one of my secrets honey? Brass knuckles. They never expect a punch in the face they see an open hand.

[dre_jones]

Having lived in many dangerous areas in the US and abroad I have to say the best weapon is a sharp mind. First stay out of a potentially dangerous situations.

Second in close quarters the best weapon is one that can be deployed quickly and with the element of surprise. For most woman I think that mace or pepper spray is the best option. It is small, you can discreetly and non-threateningly hold it in your hand, and no real aim is required. It fits nicely even in a small purse or boot.

Remember almost all attackers just need to be slowed down or even surprised for you to make a successful escape.

For in home defense a gun is good but act responsibly and keep it locked at all times especially if you have kids or are visited by children. Again most of the time you will never need to discharge your weapon just showing it will do the trick.

BTW I am partial to 9mms

[KittyKaiti]

Here's some funny pics.

[joller86]

Here's some funny pics.

Can you please go back to posting videos and pictures of you being fucked? :coupling:

[KittyKaiti]

You've been here since January and the first thing you write is that?

>.>

<.<

-_-

[DSL]

well if your talking to me also just letting you know, i just moved here
2 months ago lol thought it would have been a quieter place but i didn't think so. well its not that bad around here now just that one stabbing
down the street but what was scary about it tho it happend 10 minutes
after i was walking up the hill to go home, and the guy who was stabbed was the same age as me 49.

If you're referring to me, we are trying to move but we are repeatedly denied housing everytime we go to look at an apartment or house. That or the rent is just too expensive. Anything cheap happens to be in equally or more dangerous places than we currently live in.


I must be missing something.

Why don't you move?

[aw9725]

Originally I am from Michigan as many of you know but I currently live in Indianapolis. If you live in the mid-west you have probably seen this guy on TV. He's actually pretty cool and drives a Corvette. :cool: This is where I have bought most of my "hardware" and usually practice. You can take anything up to a .44 Magnum in there. ;) Yes, that's a .50 cal in the picture. They have those too if you want!

I teach mostly at the IUPUI (Indiana University/Purdue University at Indianapolis) campus downtown and also at Bloomington. Indiana has some of the least stringent gun laws in the USA. I could go out and buy a pistol today and bring it home. I have a "lifetime" permit to carry as well. The only major "restrictions" involve "riverboat casinos" and "commercial aircraft." I am quite sure (not 100%) that you can own "fully automatic" weapons as well here.

Down in southern Indiana there a lot of places to shoot. Also great places to ride... Look me up if you are ever this way.

[KittyKaiti]

Yes, that's a .50 cal in the picture. They have those too if you want!


I want a Barrett M82. I heard they aren't that expensive. I saw one for about $9,000. What would be awesome to own is the Tavor TAR21. I love it. :inlove:

[Rachel]

I feel I must say this to all on the Forum. I did get all bitchy with our new member Pixie and we had some harsh words posted towards each other. I did chat with her in private and I apologized and we kissed and made up. And yes Pixie, fear for your sanity as you get older! lol I'm a cranky, old ,fat bitch sometimes.

[The Conquistador]

I'm a cranky, old ,fat bitch sometimes.


Some would say those are more endearing qualities. ;)

[The Conquistador]

Out of all the weapons I have fired, these are my favorites(in no particular order):

Mk.19
M1 Carbine
M2HB
M240B
M1911A1
M1 Garand
M44 Mosin-Nagant
S&W .500

[aw9725]

Got to thinking about owning a machine gun in Indiana and couldn't find anything definitive. It looks like it is up to the Feds. My understanding is if you pay the tax--and register with the ATF as a dealer you can have a "Class III" weapon. Does anyone know more about this? As for our own "state" gun laws. They are lenient compared to the rest of the United States:

"To buy a gun in Indiana, you must be over 21 years old and possess a valid state ID or driver's license with a current address. Then, you'll go through a federal background check.

If the check comes back void of felonies and misdemeanor crime convictions and shows the applicant to be mentally stable with no involuntary commitment into the mental health system and no chronic abuse of drugs or alcohol, that person can buy a potentially deadly weapon.

Indiana has no limitations on the sale or possession of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons, no requirement for handgun purchasers to give fingerprints, no license or permit required to buy handguns, and no one-handgun-per-month limit on sales.

Hoosiers aren't required to report any lost or stolen guns to law enforcement, their guns needn't be registered with law enforcement and there's no waiting period on gun sales. The permit is for people who want to carry or use their guns outside their homes, but it's not necessary to possess a permit to purchase a gun. What's more, gun purchasers are not required to go through any training or testing, and gun dealers aren't forced to offer them.

California, by comparison, goes the other way in almost all categories with the toughest gun laws in the nation, earning 79 of 100 points to score first overall on the Brady scorecard."

I looked at my own license and it does mention the "riverboat restriction." That falls under the Indiana Gaming Commission. Riverboat gambling is huge in Indiana (Ohio River and Lake Michigan). It also says my "lifetime license" can be revoked if I do not remain a "proper person." LOL!

"Angry Postman"... I had to go check out some of that stuff on the Internet. Were (are) you in the military? :respect:

The following is from "Mythbusters"--is that firepower or what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdxVrTsdND4&feature=PlayList&p=266792F39AA8D8B2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=31

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3TWIeGtA0A&feature=PlayList&p=266792F39AA8D8B2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC8jnSaCqxY&feature=PlayList&p=266792F39AA8D8B2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24

[DSL]

Well the guns i have fired were.

colt 45 auto.
ruger mini 14 stainless full auto. awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYHyEMU_Dcg&feature=related

S&W 44 magnum,
S&W 357 magnum
03-A3 springfield 30 cal.
12 gauge remington mag. pump
SKS semi auto.
30-30 marlin lever action
12 gauge double barrel

[The Conquistador]

"Angry Postman"... I had to go check out some of that stuff on the Internet. Were (are) you in the military? :respect:


Si senor. I am still serving.

[4inch]

The other side of me.... 44mag. Ruger Super RedHawk (Why have to shoot twice to finish the job!) with a Crimson Trace Lazar sight grip (Shooting in the dark can be fun!) in a holster hung by your bed w/speed loader on alarm clock is very good home security!!! Also great to hunt deer with. (1.5 to 4x Burris Scope on it too reach out and touch someone you don't love) :inlove:

[johndowe]

Hi there.

I am tempted to quote the movie "Shoot'em up" with Clive Owens...



JohnDowe.

[Tread]

I'm not from the US, so what do you expect happens at your home? Are there so many psychos that want to kill you? Are house invasions really normal? Did you expect bomb belt terrorists or wild animals? Or what is it?
If someone wants to steal something out of your house, they usually do that when nobody is at home. Unless you build a spring gun they have only something more to steal.

In mind it would be nice if "friendly" people that knock your door Saturday 8:00 AM and want to speak about god, and then BOOM but I hate cleaning.

[KittyKaiti]

I'm not from the US, so what do you expect happens at your home? Are there so many psychos that want to kill you? Are house invasions really normal? Did you expect bomb belt terrorists or wild animals? Or what is it?
If someone wants to steal something out of your house, they usually do that when nobody is at home. Unless you build a spring gun they have only something more to steal.

In mind it would be nice if "friendly" people that knock your door Saturday 8:00 AM and want to speak about god, and then BOOM but I hate cleaning.

I was expecting such a comment eventually. You're European I take it? There are several reasons why someone would want to own a gun, home defense being one of them. Only an idiot would say something like "What are the chances of a home invasion actually happening? I don't really need to be prepared." Unless you live in a gated community with security patrols, your home is at risk at any moment. Now if you're like me and live in the ghetto and are a transsexual, you are at extraordinary risk of assault, rape, murder, home invasion, etc. I highly recommend arming yourself if you fall into this category of "high risk persons", such as myself.

But guns are not only for keeping out criminals but also for keeping out the government. You see, in America, our country was founded on the vital right to owning firearms to secure the nation from threats at home. We used our right to own weapons in 1776 to overthrow a tyrannical government. This right is necessary to keep the government in check. In the event of Martial Law or the establishment of a Police State or Totalitarian Dictatorship, the citizens can fight back and overthrow the corrupt government. In Europe and pretty much everywhere in the world, you have been stripped of your only defense against totalitarianism. Look at Australia and the United Kingdom. These countries are decaying into Police States and the people have no defense. Of course we're seeing this corruption rising in the U.S. too. Civilian gun ownership is vital to the national security of the nation.

Bullshit Laws In The US: This is why we need guns.

*ACTA :censored:
*Patriot Act :frown:
*Massachusetts Senate Bill 2028 :censored:
*Kentucky House Bill HB 775 :censored:
*GIVE Act :(

Note that the GIVE Act's original threat to civil rights was removed before it was passed. The original text outraged many people including Congress and the Senate.

[The Conquistador]

I'm not from the US, so what do you expect happens at your home?

I expect that the sanctity of my home is respected by my fellow citizens. It is not a shelter or a bank; is is the dwelling of another person.

Are there so many psychos that want to kill you?

Depends on where you live but generally no. Psychos; NO, however there are criminals that will not hesitate to attack the resident if cornered and they are alot more common.

Are house invasions really normal?

Also, dependent on your location. However, it isn't a stretch to say that home burglaries are the most common form of crime.

Did you expect bomb belt terrorists or wild animals? Or what is it?

No. Wild animals are usually in rural areas and Bomb-belt terrorists can be found in The Sandbox(Middle East), Europe and any place with a significant Hebrew/Jewish population.

If someone wants to steal something out of your house, they usually do that when nobody is at home. Unless you build a spring gun they have only something more to steal.

This is purely based on personal observation but everytime I've had my place broken into, it was at nighttime. Night tends to favor a criminal in that they are alot harder to identify and can make an easier getaway/it's alot harder to track them in the dark as opposed to broad daylight.

Not always true with the "they now have your weapons" arguement. Most folks will have their guns locked up in a safe which can weigh anywhere from +400 Lbs or have a weapon on their person. Unless your average street thug has friends with him or has the body of Paleolithic man, he will not be going anywhere with a giant safe. Only idiots leave weapons where criminals or untrained children can touch them with their grubby little paws.

In mind it would be nice if "friendly" people that knock your door Saturday 8:00 AM and want to speak about god, and then BOOM but I hate cleaning.

Whatever floats your boat dude. I personally do not wish anyone grievous bodily harm unless they make it clear that they intend to do so towards me; breaking and entering being one. Afterall, if someone is going to break into another persons house and do god-knows-what, then what assurance do I have that stealing is all they intend to do? A shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot conveys a homeowners intentions and assures a criminal that said homeowner will not put up with his shit. :yes: ;)

[The Conquistador]

In Europe and pretty much everywhere in the world, you have been stripped of your only defense against totalitarianism. Look at Australia and the United Kingdom. These countries are decaying into Police States and the people have no defense.

Nonsense! Their benevolent overlords are only "thinking of the children".

[The Conquistador]

On a different note, here are video clips of bullets striking different mediums and all captured with a 1,000,000 FPS camera! :turnon::coupling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg




BTW Tread, is your avatar of a Beanie Baby? Just curious because I have the Penguin and Koala ones. I'm a dork!

[aw9725]

I’m not from the US, so what do you expect happens at your home? Are there so many psychos that want to kill you?

Hi Tread,

KittyKaiti and AngryPostman answered your questions better than I could have. In the United States we have ten amendments to our Constitution known as the “Bill of Rights” that guarantees certain freedoms. It is fundamental to our system of governance--indeed our very “way of life.” The first right is the “freedom of speech” that is so well known. The second is the right “to keep and bear arms.” Our country was founded on the principles of individual rights and the right to be free from tyranny. What is commonly known as the “revolutionary war” was actually a war for independence. One of the ways of insuring our independence and freedom was to support an armed populace. We take this right quite seriously.

When I joined this forum, the last thing on my mind was guns! However, I started this thread in response to the beating of one of our members. Yes, there are sometimes people out there that want to hurt others--even kill. I grew up in one of our most dangerous cities--Detroit. Check it out on the Internet if you like. We lived in a “good” neighborhood by comparison but there were still burglaries, robberies, assaults, rapes, and murders. Yes, there is a police department but the reality is they arrive “after the fact” and typically don’t provide a deterrent for hardened criminals. In the end, you really must be prepared to defend yourself.

Alternatives to guns include Karate or Judo, chemical sprays, “tasers,” or knives. Not all of these are legal in all 50 states and if you are small or outnumbered, aren’t going to do much good anyway. Many of our members are also the target of “hate crimes.” Often these involve some kind of physical assault usually by more than one attacker. There are well documented cases of gay, lesbian, or transgendered individuals who have been beaten or even killed by their assailants.

My original post recommended learning to shoot and carry a gun for self defense. You can read my “profile” for more about me if you like. Currently I live in Indianapolis which is relatively “safer” than Detroit. However there was an incident a few years ago in one of our downtown parking garages where I am absolutely certain that the fact I was “carrying” saved my wife and myself.

Hope this helps you to understand a little more about the reasons for owning a gun. BTW what country are you from? Also I like your avatar! :)

Andrew

[Tread]

KittyKaiti and AngryPostman answered your questions better than I could have. ...
...Hope this helps you to understand a little more about the reasons for owning a gun.

My question was about home defence and not about owning, or carrying a gun.

Hate crime, murder, rape, violence and so on usually happen on the street and not at home.
I can't belief that someone invades and garrison your home, why should someone do this?

Depends on where you live but generally no. Psychos; NO, however there are criminals that will not hesitate to attack the resident if cornered and they are alot more common.

I don't understand, there are common cornered criminals that attack uninvolved homes? Why?

This is purely based on personal observation but everytime I've had my place broken into, it was at nighttime. Night tends to favor a criminal in that they are alot harder to identify and can make an easier getaway/it's alot harder to track them in the dark as opposed to broad daylight.

Yes that's my personal observation. In nearly all cases I know that a Thief's notice that someone is present in the building that they break in, they try to escape. Is that not the case in the US? (I don't know)
A Thief tries to avoid confrontation. It is easier to get away if nobody is there to identify, than at night and wake up the house owner. The best would be at night and nobody is at home.




BTW Tread, is your avatar of a Beanie Baby? Just curious because I have the Penguin and Koala ones. I'm a dork!

I signed pictures I have made with a, under UV-Light, glowing Scorpion. I don't wonder that other find it scary or disgusting in first, but didn't changed it. For my Avatar I wanted a nice friendly pic combined with the glowing Scorpion. I quick drew little changes, mouth colour, to a stuffed Scorpion I found on the net.
I thought it was a plush animal for $19.95. But you are right, also I didn't find it on their site. And it's only $4.87 with shipping at Amazon, I want to have it.

[The Conquistador]

Hate crime, murder, rape, violence and so on usually happen on the street and not at home.
I can't belief that someone invades and garrison your home, why should someone do this?

My sister had her house broken into by 2 would-be bank robbers who were armed. Not 5 mintues after she left, they broke in. Now suppose she hadn't left when she did, her and her baby would be at the mercy of 2 felons who were hopped up on meth and swinging pistols around. The cops had them barricaded inside the house and it took about 20 rounds of CS to flush them out. They broke and entered but do you really want to trust criminals who have a history of violence that they are not going to harm you in any way?

I don't understand, there are common cornered criminals that attack uninvolved homes? Why?

Not sure what you mean by this but what I was trying to say that the odds of running into someone of the likes of Charles Manson or John Wayne Gacy are relatively slim, whereas the odds of running into a felon who will not hesitate to escalate to violence when cornered are significantly higher.

If said perp has one more strike against him and will be going away for a long time if he's caught, he's not going to put up his hands and smile sheepishly and say something like, "Oops! Ya caught me red-handed!" The perp is not trying to go back to jail and will do what is necessary to stay away from bars, even if that means hurting or killing someone.

The most common mistakes people make is that:

1) The criminal only wants valuables.

2) The criminal will never hit my house because I live in a good neighborhood or something along those lines.

Crime can happen anywhere. Period. How often it happens is dependent on where you live.





Yes that's my personal observation. In nearly all cases I know that a Thief's notice that someone is present in the building that they break in, they try to escape. Is that not the case in the US? (I don't know)
A Thief tries to avoid confrontation. It is easier to get away if nobody is there to identify, than at night and wake up the house owner. The best would be at night and nobody is at home.

While they try to avoid confrontation, most criminals have a history of violence and are repeat offenders. People like that will not hesitate to hurt someone if it means accomplishing their objective.

Robbing a house is a crapshoot. Regardless if it is day or night, someone will either be there or not be there. Unless you recon the place prior to the bust, a simple smash and grab is never as simple as that.

Simple fact is that you did not invite them into your abode and they are unwanted. Being unprepared in your own home is an unnecessary risk for a false sense of security.

I signed pictures I have made with a, under UV-Light, glowing Scorpion. I don't wonder that other find it scary or disgusting in first, but didn't changed it. For my Avatar I wanted a nice friendly pic combined with the glowing Scorpion. I quick drew little changes, mouth colour, to a stuffed Scorpion I found on the net.
I thought it was a plush animal for $19.95. But you are right, also I didn't find it on their site. And it's only $4.87 with shipping at Amazon, I want to have it.

Cool!

[Tread]

I'm sorry to hear your criminals are so stupid that they try to escape in a random house instead of try to get away. But would it help if you were at home with a gun you have to get out of the safe when armed criminals suddenly break in? If they are surprising, it would be too late even the gun is at a particular open place in your house. Is the risk lower to get harmed if you have a ready gun at home and caught off guard?

How do those criminals get so easy in the house? A broken window can be pretty dangerous if someone wants to hurry through, and a looked door shouldn't be easy to open without proper tools or by a non professional.


I don't want to discus if it is better to confront armed criminals with guns or to cooperate. I don't see the reason to extra argue with home defence, and the need of bigger guns for it.

[The Conquistador]

I'm sorry to hear your criminals are so stupid that they try to escape in a random house instead of try to get away. But would it help if you were at home with a gun you have to get out of the safe when armed criminals suddenly break in? If they are surprising, it would be too late even the gun is at a particular open place in your house. Is the risk lower to get harmed if you have a ready gun at home and caught off guard?

They are not stupid. What I was trying to say was that the criminal will always try to escape, even if it means that they will have to go through you.

Most of the time, a spare gun is within ready reach of the occupant. Unless they break in through your bedroom window or you live in a studio, you will have a couple seconds to a couple minutes of time to arm yourself. I for example have my Mosin right under my bed with 4 in the mag and 1 in the chamber. Should I hear the sound of breaking wood or glass, I can have it locked and loaded and in the low-ready position in under 2 seconds. At a walking pace, it takes about 6 seconds to make it from the front door to my bedroom and half that for running/jogging pace. That extra second allows me to orient my sights.

How do those criminals get so easy in the house? A broken window can be pretty dangerous if someone wants to hurry through, and a looked door shouldn't be easy to open without proper tools or by a non professional.

Broken windows can be dangerous but odds are that the criminal is a repeat offender and has done it before. You wouldn't believe how easy it is to bust through a doorlock. Hell, most doorknobs use the same key. Go to a hardware store and check out the selection of locks and compare the makes and models and the accompanying keys. The keys are varied but they are pretty much the same. The different models of locks even have the same serial number which means that the key from a brass doorhandle will work on a brushed stainless steel doorhandle is the serials match up or are close enough. Not as infallible as most people think.


I don't want to discus if it is better to confront armed criminals with guns or to cooperate. I don't see the reason to extra argue with home defence, and the need of bigger guns for it.

I know. I was just trying to explain some differences. :respect:

[SandraB]

Hi there.

I am tempted to quote the movie "Shoot'em up" with Clive Owens...


JohnDowe.

Hi all.

Did you mean the one about "a pussy with gun" thing?


Sandra.

[Tread]

They are not stupid. What I was trying to say was that the criminal will always try to escape, even if it means that they will have to go through you.

In my opinion they are stupid, there is no way out of a surrounded house, and they are going longer in jail by doing this and even longer (maybe death penalty) if they kill people.

You wouldn't believe how easy it is to bust through a doorlock. Hell, most doorknobs use the same key. Go to a hardware store and check out the selection of locks and compare the makes and models and the accompanying keys. The keys are varied but they are pretty much the same. The different models of locks even have the same serial number which means that the key from a brass doorhandle will work on a brushed stainless steel doorhandle is the serials match up or are close enough. Not as infallible as most people think.

Usually the lock is the most stabile part of the door, then the door itself and the door angles are the weakest. I don't know how it is with your door knob combined with look. It seems to get easier to the mechanics cause a big part is in front of the door.
There is a big variety of cylinder locks, Pin Tumbler Locks are not the only ones. If the hardware store sells such mass product keys, I wouldn't use it for my main door. But it needs a lot of luck to find a fitting lock that opens with your key if you are on the run after a bank robbery.



If this sort of crime is common, yourself or people you know are victims of this, I can comprehend your home defence point of view.

[The Conquistador]

In my opinion they are stupid, there is no way out of a surrounded house, and they are going longer in jail by doing this and even longer (maybe death penalty) if they kill people.

If this is in reference to the robbers who broke into my sisters house, then yes, they are stupid. I won't argue that. But they are the exception, not the rule.

Usually the lock is the most stabile part of the door, then the door itself and the door angles are the weakest. I don't know how it is with your door knob combined with look. It seems to get easier to the mechanics cause a big part is in front of the door.
There is a big variety of cylinder locks, Pin Tumbler Locks are not the only ones. If the hardware store sells such mass product keys, I wouldn't use it for my main door. But it needs a lot of luck to find a fitting lock that opens with your key if you are on the run after a bank robbery.

If this sort of crime is common, yourself or people you know are victims of this, I can comprehend your home defence point of view.

Actually the hinges are stronger as opposed to the lock. You have more points of contact on the hinges compared to the deadbolt. Deadbolts and Doorjambs can be busted open by a wellplaced flathead screwdriver and a swift kick(I know because I got locked out of my home once;) )

Again, what happened to my sis was the exception, not the norm. A smarter criminal would get keys no problem and make for a cleaner job; your run of the mill street thug is rather impulsive and stupid. Home burglaries are common; the occurence of break-ins just depends on where you live at.




*Sorry for dragging this on. Talking to you is rather enjoyable*

[Tread]

No need to excuse.

Again, what happened to my sis was the exception, not the norm. A smarter criminal would get keys no problem and make for a cleaner job; your run of the mill street thug is rather impulsive and stupid. Home burglaries are common; the occurence of break-ins just depends on where you live at.

If it is the exception I don't see the need for extra a home defence weapon.
A good equipped would use an electronic lock pick. Opens every Pin Tumbler Lock in one or two seconds. The easiest way would be a crowbar.
Home burglaries are not killer, and I think they don't want to become one. Smart ones would observe before break in so they can get most profit out of it with low risk to get caught.

Actually the hinges are stronger as opposed to the lock. You have more points of contact on the hinges compared to the deadbolt. Deadbolts and Doorjambs can be busted open by a wellplaced flathead screwdriver and a swift kick(I know because I got locked out of my home once;) )

Take a wafer tumbler lock and a screwdriver doesn't work.
Maybe we are talking about different doors and locks.
1. pic: Is that how your locks look like? (was a good pic of it never mind what language)
2. pic: These I know the best. A big snapper and a separate lock bolt, but more bolts turned at the same time are not rare. The lock is fully in the door. It seems like that the doorframe is also much thicker.

[The Conquistador]

If it is the exception I don't see the need for extra a home defence weapon.

The whole bank-robber-breaking-into-my sisters-house is not the norm. However someone breaking into a house looking for valuables is far more likely to occur. Locks are not impenetrable. With the right tools even the toughest of locks can be broken. All locks do is buy time for someone to ready themselves against attack. If you use locks and various devices to safeguard your valuables, why would you not have an added assurance for your most valuable possession; your life? Saying that you will never need to protect yourself from bodily harm because locks will always deterr someone is like not having a Plan B. It's like the old infantry saying goes,"If your assault is going as planned, you are walking into an ambush."

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

Take a wafer tumbler lock and a screwdriver doesn't work.
Maybe we are talking about different doors and locks.
1. pic: Is that how your locks look like? (was a good pic of it never mind what language)
2. pic: These I know the best. A big snapper and a separate lock bolt, but more bolts turned at the same time are not rare. The lock is fully in the door. It seems like that the doorframe is also much thicker.

I haven't encountered many doorknobs like the second one. I take it those are more prevalent in dwellings where you live rather than here in the US. I've only seen them on school doors and Gov. buildings and I've seen them get opened by a credit card or something of similar thickness.

[Rachel]

When seconds count the police are only minutes away!

[KittyKaiti]

The fact is, Tread, that no matter what the risk is, whether low or high, it is not smart to be unprepared for any form of attack. I don't care what the statistics are or what happens more or less frequently. The fact is that at any time, an armed robbery or other home invasion can occur and I would rather have a weapon, preferably a firearm, ready to kill a mother:censored:er, should someone come breaking down my door.

[Tread]

If you use locks and various devices to safeguard your valuables, why would you not have an added assurance for your most valuable possession; your life? Saying that you will never need to protect yourself from bodily harm because locks will always deterr someone is like not having a Plan B. It's like the old infantry saying goes,"If your assault is going as planned, you are walking into an ambush."

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

I don't think Thief's want to fight with the house owner or getting identified, and I don't think they kill everyone they met while breaking in. Also I don't think it is a, if I don't shoot him he will harm me, situation. But I don't know how it is in a county where nearly every criminal is armed with guns.
An ambush at military, war or on the street is different and can happens, but at your home? And if someone creates an ambush at your home you're dead before you notice anything.

I haven't encountered many doorknobs like the second one. I take it those are more prevalent in dwellings where you live rather than here in the US. I've only seen them on school doors and Gov. buildings and I've seen them get opened by a credit card or something of similar thickness.

The door overlap the wall, so there is not a directly gap to the snapper. A credit card is not long and not flexible enough to open the snapper. Have most US doors a direct gap to the snapper/bolt?
The lock and key service have cards that can do this, but this only works with the snapper and not with the bolt that locks the door. It happens often that people accordantly shut a door, without handle or knob on the outside, and forgot the key. I guess you experienced it by locking you out, as the most do with doors that only can be open with a key form outside.



The fact is, Tread, that no matter what the risk is, whether low or high, it is not smart to be unprepared for any form of attack. I don't care what the statistics are or what happens more or less frequently. The fact is that at any time, an armed robbery or other home invasion can occur and I would rather have a weapon, preferably a firearm, ready to kill a mother:censored:er, should someone come breaking down my door.

You could also prepare against fire (much higher risk) with an automatic fire-extinguishing system, protect your house and you against meteorites or prepare for naturally viruses, dirty bombs, biological, or chemical weapons with face masks or ABC-Masks.

It would save much more life if more people would learn first aid than having a gun for home defense.

Why should a Thief kill you and should other people invade your home?

[KittyKaiti]

Well, I own two fire extinguishers, have a gas mask and was trained for first aid and CPR, so.... your point?

Wait.... did you just say what I think you said?

"It would save much more life if more people would learn first aid than having a gun for home defense"

Are you saying that it would be better for me or a roommate to get shot, stabbed, etc and for me to know how to save her life rather than for me to own a firearm and kill the intruder before he can do anything? -_- >.> <.< :frown:


"Why should a Thief kill you and should other people invade your home?"

I dunno, ask them the next time you meet one. They do it because they're stupid, poor, an asshole or who knows.

[SweetCharmer]

Like Tread i'm from outside of the US and live in jolly old england and i think growing up without guns around hasn't had much of a negative result on my life.

I in no way though agree with Tread though on the whole just learn First aid and everything will be better thing. i agree with everyone else on being prepared and ready as well as knowing first aid

I've come to label nearly everything in my sight as a weapon and how to use it like one such as a pencil, keys, spray cans (well those are obvious) and other everyday normal objects.
I guess it really all started when i was younger. after school me and my friend were leaving but i forgot something in a class room. when i got back from getting it i found my friend being held up by someone with a penknife. some of the teachers tried grabbing him but he got away. ever since that day i felt so pathetic that i didn't do anything from being scared so i took up several martial arts and even practiced some sword arts (for meditation not for combat) to help and now ever since doing that i see everything as a weapon for self-defense not to say that i don't have any weapons in my house i do but they're all blades BUT i know how to use all of them confidently. i even at times wear weighted gloves when i go out so that i'll have some help if i ever do run into trouble. my whole life i've never once thought how much safer my life would be with a gun even though the gun rate is increasing aswell as the murder rate due to guns. i trust myself 100x more than i'd trust a gun if it were me i'd rather carry nothing because unlike most with guns (now this is a guess correct me if i'm wrong) i've been trained through martial arts to disarm and take a knife or gun off of someone without using a lot of effort. i mean at the end of the day this thread is here to help people learn self defense and that means EVERYONE. most people can't afford or are in a country that has banned guns so for all of them we need to address hand to hand combat more than just talk about what guns to buy and even for the members that do have guns it doesn't hurt to learn a few moves to saves your life.
In the end guns run out of ammo. knifes or hands/feet don't. not trying step on any toes but i just feel a LOT safer putting my life in my own hands rather than a guns.

[Tread]

Wait.... did you just say what I think you said?

It would save much more life if more people would learn first aid than having a gun for home defense.

Are you saying that it would be better for me or a roommate to get shot, stabbed, etc and for me to know how to save her life rather than for me to own a firearm and kill the intruder before he can do anything? -_- >.> <.< :frown:

I wanted to say that a lot of people die every day by accidents, heart attack, apoplectic stroke, allergic shock and so on, because folks around don't do anything helpful. And I doubt that there are many cases where a home defence weapon saved life.

I dunno, ask them the next time you meet one. They do it because they're stupid, poor, an asshole or who knows.

Only met once people who killed other in a drug gang fight, but didn't have something to do with them or talked much with them, but they had a clear financial motive.

Well, I own two fire extinguishers, have a gas mask and was trained for first aid and CPR, so.... your point?

Exemplary! Didn't expect this.
I thought CPR is part of first aid, nevermind. Many learn it only once in life forget it fast and don't know what to do in a serious situation, but your training is probably not many years ago, so you're able to execute it.
By a fire, most people suffocate from smoke while sleeping, but I guess you have smoke detectors as well.

I find it unnecessary to prepare against unlikely risks, like meteors, terrorism, home invasions or bloodthirsty Thief's (unless you life at a place where this is not the exception). And the most forget that driving by car, working in the garden, doing sport or getting infected from by other human has a multiple higher risk.

If you want to prepare for everything, it's OK. In my opinion overdone, but no offense here. I myself overdo it with personal information's on the internet, being paranoid in giving info or pic's away.

I only want to understand why so many justify an extra big calibre weapon with home defence. For me it implies a little guilt for owning it. They have it cause they say they need it (and I don't see the need), and not cause they want to have it.


@SweetCharmer
Makes sense and I prefer this too, but in the US too many people have already guns, and disarming works only if you are close enough.

[The Conquistador]

I only want to understand why so many justify an extra big calibre weapon with home defence. For me it implies a little guilt for owning it. They have it cause they say they need it (and I don’t see the need), and not cause they want to have it.



Why should I feel guilt for having something(whether I want or need it)? That is like asking "You have 2 perfectly good feet. Why do you need a car?"

Mr. Tread I would like to ask you a couple questions:

1) Do you place such little value on your life that you would rather not own an efficient weapon with excellent standoff?

2) If someone broke into your house, can you tell if they were a rapist, serial killer, robber etc.?

3) Are you sure enough of a criminals intentions that you would trust that he would want to only steal your belongings and nothing more?

4) What would you do if a psychotic person broke into your house and started threatening you or your family?

5) Do you live in Europe?

[The Conquistador]

And I doubt that there are many cases where a home defence weapon saved life.

You could not be more wrong about that. There is a plethora of recorded cases where weapons have saved people from rape, murder, physical abuse within the family home. I will post some later.

[The Conquistador]

But I don't know how it is in a county where nearly every criminal is armed with guns.
An ambush at military, war or on the street is different and can happens, but at your home? And if someone creates an ambush at your home you're dead before you notice anything.


Not every criminal is armed with a gun. Alot more crimes are committed with knives and bludgeoning weapons nowadays.


You misinterpreted what I was trying to convey with the whole "ambush" thing. I was trying to bring the point across that you should always have a back up plan. Locks, while useful, won't stop a determined criminal. All they do is buy you time to ready yourself. There is only so much you can do defensively before you have to go on the offense. Should I go on the offense, I would like to have a weapon that I can easily reach out and touch someone with rather than having to get up close to use a weapon.

Saying that locks are good enough seems rather shortsighted. Afterall, if locks did such a good job, we would not have to worry about home invasions. ;) Having a weapon at home is like having an insurance policy; It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

[aw9725]

Only in Indiana... Some genius thought it would be a good idea to have a "2 for 1." One bar has a "Country & Western" theme and the other is a Hip Hop Club that also books heavy metal bands. Needless to say it makes the 11 o'clock news all the time. Some of the Pacers and Colts hang out there as well. Most incidents happen in the parking lot--the bar is in a very bad part of Indy. I went there once with my "ex" and I was "carrying." ;)

[KittyKaiti]

By a fire, most people suffocate from smoke while sleeping, but I guess you have smoke detectors as well.



Yes, we have fire detectors but I also have something else on my side. I guess its a rare or possibly some sort of a lucky disorder or malfunction of my brain but my subconscious/unconsciousness takes control of my body when I'm sleeping. I can be completely unconscious or simply asleep and people tell me I get up and walk around, respond to questions, do things, etc (sleep walking). I wake up and my roommates will tell me I got up and did something or said something and I'll say, "no I didn't". My subconscious must be responding to questions or incidents for me while I'm "out". It's weird. Anyway, what I'm getting at is one day I was in an accident and completely knocked unconscious but then I got up and got myself to safety. My friends watched this happen and told me what I did when I finally "came to". There is no way I could have been conscious from such an impact to the head. My point is that I have some sort of natural security system where if I'm in danger and unconscious or asleep, my body takes control and does stuff for me. I believe that if we had a fire and there was smoke or if I was attacked while sleeping, that my subconscious will defend me or get me to safety. I'm not willing to test that theory but strongly believe it might be true. I guess that would be the best self defense weapon anyone could have.

[aw9725]

My point is that I have some sort of natural security system where if I'm in danger and unconscious or asleep, my body takes control and does stuff for me. I believe that if we had a fire and there was smoke or if I was attacked while sleeping, that my subconscious will defend me or get me to safety. I'm not willing to test that theory but strongly believe it might be true. I guess that would be the best self defense weapon anyone could have.

Animals have a "higher" sense of danger. I'm sure it can exist to different degrees in humans as well. One night a while back (April 2008 I think) my two cats were going crazy running around and meowing and the dog was panting and pacing all over the house. At about 3AM I woke up to a low rumble and then the whole house started rattling and shaking--it was an earthquake. I had never been in one so at first I thought it might have been a tornado or a plane crash or something. Anyway, the cats and the dog could tell something was wrong several hours before it happened. I think people can have that ability too.

We also had a german shepard that could predict storms. You could tell if something was going to be really bad--like a tornado, by watching her. Same kind of "pacing" and whining. She also was a good watchdog!

That's great to have that ability. I think I have something like it too--but not as much.

[Tread]

Not every criminal is armed with a gun. Alot more crimes are committed with knives and bludgeoning weapons nowadays.

Got it.

You misinterpreted what I was trying to convey with the whole "ambush" thing. I was trying to bring the point across that you should always have a back up plan. Locks, while useful, won't stop a determined criminal. All they do is buy you time to ready yourself. There is only so much you can do defensively before you have to go on the offense. Should I go on the offense, I would like to have a weapon that I can easily reach out and touch someone with rather than having to get up close to use a weapon.

Yes I did.

Saying that locks are good enough seems rather shortsighted. Afterall, if locks did such a good job, we would not have to worry about home invasions. ;) Having a weapon at home is like having an insurance policy; It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

I don’t worry about home invasions, but it has nothing to do with the locks. I even don’t worry if the door is wide open when I’m at home. I really rarely heard of violent robbery and real harm to someone in combination even less.

You could not be more wrong about that. There is a plethora of recorded cases where weapons have saved people from rape, murder, physical abuse within the family home. I will post some later.

I would like to hear some, and I if a threat or action with an improved weapon, pepper spray or the weapon they carry for self defence had done the same success. I don’t see the “need” for weapons that blow elephants away or rifles for home defence.

Why should I feel guilt for having something(whether I want or need it)? That is like asking "You have 2 perfectly good feet. Why do you need a car?"

I don’t know why you should, I even don’t know if you own one.
For me it sounds like an excuse to have a big home defence weapon, cause I don’t see the need. Maybe you can change that with the examples you want to post.
I have a car because I would walk 14 hours or 4 hours a day to get to work, depending where (changes sometimes). I need 1 hour to get one way to the city. And I don’t have to carry things I buy.

1) Do you place such little value on your life that you would rather not own an efficient weapon with excellent standoff?

I don’t place a little value on my life, but I don’t own or ever touched a real gun, only paintball, airgun and things like this. You don’t have to own a gun if you put a vale on life. Some would even think complete the opposite.

2) If someone broke into your house, can you tell if they were a rapist, serial killer, robber etc.?

I can’t, but I guess in nearly 90% it is a robber, in 5% its family, house mates or friends, and in 5% it’s a stalker.

3) Are you sure enough of a criminals intentions that you would trust that he would want to only steal your belongings and nothing more?

For robbers 99%, except they want to rob me for ransom or my organs, but not here and not at my home.

4) What would you do if a psychotic person broke into your house and started threatening you or your family?

I can’t say, I never was in a similar situation. Depends on the way of psychotic, the awareness, kind of threatening, my possibilities and what’s the best or/and fastest way to get out of it with the smallest harm to my family and me.
But projectile weapons could also hit my family, even a well trained SWAT-team or whatever can’t do this without risk, for my family, at close gun combat.

5) Do you live in Europe?

My irrational paranoia.:no:
From statements I have given in this forum and other info here it is supposable that I have something to do with Europe.

[aw9725]

A burglar broke into a house one night. He shined his flashlight around, looking for valuables, and when he picked up a CD player to place in his pack, a strange, disembodied voice echoed from the dark saying, "Jesus is watching you."

He nearly jumped out of his skin, clicked his flashlight out, and froze. When he heard nothing more after a bit, he shook his head, then clicked the light on and began searching for more valuables. Just as he pulled the stereo out so he could disconnect the wires, clear as a bell he heard again, "Jesus is watching you."

Freaked out, he shone his light around frantically, looking for the source of the voice. Finally, in the corner of the room, his flashlight beam came to rest on a parrot. "Did you say that?", he asked the parrot.

"Yep," the parrot confessed, then squawked, "I'm just trying to warn you."

The burglar relaxed. "Warn me, huh? Who in the world are you?"

"Moses," replied the bird.

"Moses?" the burglar laughed. "What kind of people would name a bird Moses?"

"The kind of people that would name their Rottweiler Jesus."

[The Conquistador]

I don’t see the “need” for weapons that blow elephants away or rifles for home defence.

Most people use medium to low power cartridges for sporting and self defense(Generally .30 cal/7.62 ranges are usually medium power and anything below that is low power.) Unless you own a rifle chambered for .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, 4 bore or 2 bore or a punt gun, your rifle, shotgun or hand gun is not going to stop an elephant. Rifles like the AR-15 can be tailored to the operators needs and fire cartridges that have a good compromise between stopping power and recoil. That is why they are seeing an increased use in home defense.

I don’t know why you should, I even don’t know if you own one.
For me it sounds like an excuse to have a big home defence weapon, cause I don’t see the need. Maybe you can change that with the examples you want to post.
I have a car because I would walk 14 hours or 4 hours a day to get to work, depending where (changes sometimes). I need 1 hour to get one way to the city. And I don’t have to carry things I buy.

I own an M44 Mosin-Nagant and I primarily use it for target shooting and other recreational purposes, however it is also used as my home defense weapon. I don't have it just as an excuse for anything; I have it because it has a variety of uses; home defense being one of them.

You have a car because it is more efficient in terms of time, distance and practical uses, correct? I own a rifle because it is more efficient compared to OC spray and tasers because of the standoff distance which doesn't require me to get in within arms distance of an assailant to use it.

I don’t own or ever touched a real gun, only paintball, airgun and things like this.

I behoove you to at least go to a range and shoot for a day. That way you can develop an accurate opinion of firearms. :) :yes:

I can’t, but I guess in nearly 90% it is a robber, in 5% its family, house mates or friends, and in 5% it’s a stalker.

For robbers 99%, except they want to rob me for ransom or my organs, but not here and not at my home.

Unless you know why someone is in your house, it is always better be on the cautious side. Especially if said person has forcefully uninvited themselves into your house.

But projectile weapons could also hit my family, even a well trained SWAT-team or whatever can’t do this without risk, for my family, at close gun combat.

There is something that a wise man named Col. Jeff Cooper wrote called:

The 4 Rules of Firearms Safety

1) The gun is always loaded. (Even if you have just unloaded it, you still treat it as if it was loaded)

2) Never point the gun at something you are not willing to destroy.

3) Keep your finger off of the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

4) Be sure of your target and what is beyond or around it.

Mr. Tread. Alot of these risks can be mitigated with common sense rules like this. Training is key when handling firearms. Should you become proficient in handling a firearm, you will not have to worry about accidently hitting your family as things like this will make you more aware of what you are doing and how you are doing it.

SWAT teams are usually called in for a barricaded hostage situation, not home invasions.

[DSL]

Has anyone fired this thing yet? whats your thoughts how was the kick?
massive or just a little kick. me i wouldn't want to fire that thing in the
first place for one thing i think its outlawed in the state of Massachusetts
the handgun is the

Smith & Wesson Model 500 .50-Cal. Magnum Is The King Of Handguns
worlds most powerfull handgun.
the bullet would probably go right threw the gun range sand and tire backstop.

[The Conquistador]

Has anyone fired this thing yet? whats your thoughts how was the kick?
massive or just a little kick. me i wouldn't want to fire that thing in the
first place for one thing i think its outlawed in the state of Massachusetts
the handgun is the

Smith & Wesson Model 500 .50-Cal. Magnum Is The King Of Handguns
worlds most powerfull handgun.
the bullet would probably go right threw the gun range sand and tire backstop.

Yes I have. It has MASSIVE recoil and I was firing downloaded rounds. Even with the slightly less power, after 3 shots my wrist started hurting. It definetly fits the description of hand cannon! The only thing that I can think of that might have comparable recoil is this:

[NCC-1701]

What worries me when i read this topic, is that how often crimes of an extreme nature seem to happen in america. This is just my thoughts, but surely if guns were illegal, sure you wouldent have one, but neither would the criminals. So crime would decrease. But thats just my 2 cents. Is there any Tgirl from the UK or elsewhere who needs to defend themselves on here? it would be interesting to find out how. as guns and knifes are illegal to carry in this country.

[DSL]

Well that must have been nasty i will stick with my 357 mag a light to moderate recoil action revolver my weapon does have a kick but doesn't
come close to matching that. i use at the range 38 spc. semi wadcutters.
for target shooting light and plinking loads and also full mettal jacket rounds too for home defense i use 357 shotshells and 911 which ever comes first
my home phone does have a one touch direct 911 dial number but it takes
at least 5 minutes or less before they arrive its those 5 minutes i am worried about.
somebody trying to kick the door in or stuff like that it can happen
it hasn't happend yet but you never know when i do have dead bolt security
locks in my apartment where i live and a auto flood light but someone can forget to lock the entry door.

Yes I have. It has MASSIVE recoil and I was firing downloaded rounds. Even with the slightly less power, after 3 shots my wrist started hurting. It definetly fits the description of hand cannon! The only thing that I can think of that might have comparable recoil is this:

[jimnaseum]

Unlike most people here, I actually used to get robbed quite often when I was whoring in the big city. Most of the time I had my pants down, but a few times bad negroes robbed me up close and personal. One time in particular three young gangstas made their move on me in the stairwell of a large apartment building, in a real bad neighborhood. I was drunk enough to almost throw one of them over the bannister, but the liberal side of me gave up my wallet with the three dollars. The next time three negroes got me cornered in an alley, I negotiated the return of my wallet and credit cards. They got my cash. There were countless times violence could have been a solution, but I figure when you go downtown, sometimes you win, some times you lose.
I have a Colt.38 Detective special, small, and a revolver never jams. I also have a nice expandable Police Baton. I'd like to get a shotgun to complete my home protection package. Peace Out.

[aw9725]

Smith & Wesson Model 500 .50-Cal. Magnum Is The King Of Handguns
worlds most powerfull handgun.
the bullet would probably go right threw the gun range sand and tire backstop.

The biggest thing I've ever shot is a friend's .44 Magnum with handloaded 300gr rounds. That kicked pretty hard but was fun to shoot! Even in daylight you could see flame come out of the muzzle. The "normal" .44 Remington Magnum load uses a 240 gr bullet. I also shot it with a light "special" load (185 gr I think) and recoil wasn't bad.

I still prefer a 9mm, .40, .38 Special or .380 for defense. Maybe a .357 or .45 if you are experienced and can handle the recoil. My "ex" could handle my Beretta with no problem and she was only like 5'5" 130. Also the bigger the gun--the harder it is to conceal. You know Clint dosen't have to carry that thing around with him all day--he just returns it to the prop department when the scene is over! LOL! :cool:

For my home, a 12 ga works well. I have a standard Remington 870 that I got at K-Mart. I have added a pistol grip and a shorter barrel. My AR-15 would most likely go through the walls and kill the neighbors :( but it looks awesome!

I think a lot of ranges would ban the .50. I know Don's used to only allow up to a .44 factory load. No handloads. Sounds like it would be a "blast" to shoot!

If ever any of you are in Indiana or Michigan look me up.

[KittyKaiti]

What worries me when i read this topic, is that how often crimes of an extreme nature seem to happen in america. This is just my thoughts, but surely if guns were illegal, sure you wouldent have one, but neither would the criminals. So crime would decrease. But thats just my 2 cents. Is there any Tgirl from the UK or elsewhere who needs to defend themselves on here? it would be interesting to find out how. as guns and knifes are illegal to carry in this country.

The U.S. Supreme Court has overturned many gun bans because of the fact that banning guns does not lower crime. Banning guns remove guns from law abiding citizens. Criminals still find a way to get them. Banning guns would create the same scenario we had when we outlawed alcohol. It will generate crime, crime more vicious and hazardous than we have already.

[Rachel]

One point that seems to be overlooked so far is that a lot of home break ins are committed by druggies

[Rachel]

In this country Mr. Tread someone somewhere used their piece to PREVENT a crime today. And yesterday it happened and will tommorow. These occurances are not reported. Happened to me twice a few years ago. Did I report it? Of course not. More then likely I would have been interrogated and treated like the criminal. This happened 15 years ago when I was younger stronger and more manly lol. In the first instance my wife and I went to a dept store to buy baby clothes for our new son. The store (Sears) had multiple entrances and we were on the far side of the building more around the back. My now ex wife was putting our son into his car seat while I was standing in front of the car smoking a cigarette. While there were cars on either side of mine when we parked, there was now a large van on one side and a pickup truck on the other. Being alert and scanning the scene I see 2 underpriveledged youths come around the corner of the building and immediately point to our running car and pick up their pace confering amongst themselves as they changed direction towards us. My wife still had her fat ass sticking out the door cutting me off from her and my son. I look around... Nobody here but us sheep or so it seemed to the two would be car jackers. As they got closer they were now out of site behind the van. I used this opportunity to draw my Ruger .357 Had it pointing right over the top of the opened car door . Told wife to hurry up. I then see the two pass the back of the van and immediately turn into the space between our car. They stopped short and excitedly when I thumbed that hammer back and they realized we were no easy victims and beat a hasty retreat. Now had I not been armed that day Mr. Tread what do you suppose might have happened to my family?

[Rachel]

The second time I was alone at a large food store in the late evening picking up a few things on my way home from work. Since it was payday I cashed my paycheck at the store(with minmum $30 purchase). Taking my one bag I notice a middle aged man standing by the front windows of the store about 20 feet from me. As I start walking out I know he's following me. My car is parked about 150 feet away maybe the tenth car down the aisle. As I'm almost to my car I'm unzipping my jacket I can hear his pace increasing. I swing my jacket back and pop the retaining strap on my holstered .22 auto. He's now about ten short feet away. He sees this and immediately turns at a 90 degree angle and makes tracks. Now at that time in my life I was into lifting weights and martial arts. Hmm a 6'2" 220 pound man is no easy mark yet this criminal was willing to risk his own neck for that 600 dollars he knew I had. Desparate men do desparate things Tread, they arent all stupid. Had I not been armed with more then my fists and feet maybe I would have been stabbed or clubbed. Or shot who knows? In both these instances my pistols prevented crimes without firing a shot.

[The Conquistador]

This is just my thoughts, but surely if guns were illegal, sure you wouldent have one, but neither would the criminals.

Unfortunately, this isn't true. If guns were illegal, only the criminals would have them as they do not follow laws. Only the law abiding citizens would be defensless because of their adherence to the laws that have been set forth.

[The Conquistador]

I think a lot of ranges would ban the .50.

Most ranges that I know of have banned the .50 BMG specifically. However, they still allow wildcat .50 cals. Some guy had 20mm cases necked down to .50!

[The Conquistador]

http://nonannystate.blogspot.com/2009_1 ... 9925460286


The Governator has just signed a law requiring that you now get fingerprinted before you can buy ammo.

Fuck you Arnold and fuck you DPRK(Democratic Peoples Republic of Kalifornia) legislators!


I think it's about high time I GTFO of this god-forsaken state.


:censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: :censored::censored:

[tslust]

http://nonannystate.blogspot.com/2009_1 ... 9925460286


The Governator has just signed a law requiring that you now get fingerprinted before you can buy ammo.

Fuck you Arnold and fuck you DPRK(Democratic Peoples Republic of Kalifornia) legislators!


I think it's about high time I GTFO of this god-forsaken state.


:censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: :censored::censored:

OMFG I couldn't believe that. That's a bull:censored: law if I've ever seen one.

[DSL]

Well here is a sad story but a true one as well, a coule yearsa ago
there were this couple man and women both married happily.
well any way they were upstairs in bed fast asleep one night
between the hours of 12 to 1 am suddenly the husband hears a noise
downstairs and somwe rumbling about which awakend him he get up
goes right for his service revolver a 38 spec. S&W snubnose he tells the
wife to stay calm and don't move.
finally he is standing at the top of the stairs and at the bottom of the stairs
was this black silhouette it was to dark to see who it was but by
blind instinct he pulls his weapon and fires!! down the stairs, killing who was
at the bottom. he went down to take a closer look it turned out to be his
16 year old daughter coming home late that night with her boy friend
her boy friend had just left dropping her off. he shot her right threw the chest killing her instantly
she was DOA at the scene.

which reminds me of the movie american gun if any of you saw it
that just the way it happend. but this was true they didn't charge him
with anything it was a terrible accident and she was in the wrong place at
the wrong time!.

which leave me with this all ways think twice before firing your weapon
you never know who might be at the bottom of those stairs
the farther had to be rushed to the hosiptal for shock
he turned in his revolver and promised never to pick up a gun again.

this was going back a few years but i had forgotten some of it
but i herd it happend again from another couple she was due to be married
with him and this women came home from work and she was shot accidently
by her due to be wed boy friend.

[The Conquistador]

by
blind instinct he pulls his weapon and fires!! down the stairs, killing who was
at the bottom. he went down to take a closer look it turned out to be his
16 year old daughter


These are unfortunate incidents but could have been prevented through simple training. It doesn't cost much to go through a home defense class and you are taught proper engagement of a target and numerous other things. Even in the military, you are taught to issue a warning before you engage someone. It only takes a second to shout out,"Halt!" ,"Who goes there?" or "Identify yourself or I will fire upon you!"

Escalation Of Force training will help you to handle a situation without guns blazing. If you are going to be armed, take a class on how to properly use your weapon of choice; simple actions like learning how to properly handle a weapon and proper escalation and de-escalation of force and rules of engagement can save lives without ending them.

People need to understand that weapons handling is not like in the movies where you pick up a gun/knife/baton and suddenly you are an expert with nerves of steel. There are very real emotions that come into play such as fear and very real consequences that arise as a result of your actions. With proper training, you can overcome the stresses that might cause you to otherwise do something rash like firing without properly identifying your target.

If you choose not to properly train or go through the motions of proper weapons use, you have no business handling a weapon.

[randolph]

These are unfortunate incidents but could have been prevented through simple training. It doesn't cost much to go through a home defense class and you are taught proper engagement of a target and numerous other things. Even in the military, you are taught to issue a warning before you engage someone. It only takes a second to shout out,"Halt!" ,"Who goes there?" or "Identify yourself or I will fire upon you!"

Escalation Of Force training will help you to handle a situation without guns blazing. If you are going to be armed, take a class on how to properly use your weapon of choice; simple actions like learning how to properly handle a weapon and proper escalation and de-escalation of force and rules of engagement can save lives without ending them.

People need to understand that weapons handling is not like in the movies where you pick up a gun/knife/baton and suddenly you are an expert with nerves of steel. There are very real emotions that come into play such as fear and very real consequences that arise as a result of your actions. With proper training, you can overcome the stresses that might cause you to otherwise do something rash like firing without properly identifying your target.

If you choose not to properly train or go through the motions of proper weapons use, you have no business handling a weapon.

This is all well and good, but it's not happening. No training is required to own a gun. I found it ludicrous when California required training to buy mace but not a gun.:frown:

[Tread]

I also have a 12 ga Remington 870 if anyone should break into my home as well as an AR-15.

For my home, a 12 ga works well. I have a standard Remington 870 that I got at K-Mart. I have added a pistol grip and a shorter barrel. My AR-15 would most likely go through the walls and kill the neighbors :( but it looks awesome!

I first thought you use the AR-15 for home defence as well. Nice to hear you don't.

Rifles like the AR-15 can be tailored to the operators needs and fire cartridges that have a good compromise between stopping power and recoil. That is why they are seeing an increased use in home defense.

I totally forgot the US walls that are made of paper (exaggeration like to blow away an elephant). Why use weapons that go through humans and walls for home defence. That's a risk for uninvolved people.

I own an M44 Mosin-Nagant and I primarily use it for target shooting and other recreational purposes, however it is also used as my home defense weapon. I don't have it just as an excuse for anything; I have it because it has a variety of uses; home defense being one of them.

If you use it primarily for sport, I don't see it as excuse. To buy a rifle, that is usually made for longer distances than handguns, for the reason of home defence sounds for me like an excuse, or a big calibre guns.

You have a car because it is more efficient in terms of time, distance and practical uses, correct? I own a rifle because it is more efficient compared to OC spray and tasers because of the standoff distance which doesn't require me to get in within arms distance of an assailant to use it.

The difference is: I need something to travel time efficient, and no need for a big home defence weapon, in my opinion.

I behoove you to at least go to a range and shoot for a day. That way you can develop an accurate opinion of firearms. :) :yes:

I can't just go to a range and shoot different weapons.
Don't know what an accurate opinion of firearms should help. I'm sure I would have fun shooting some guns, I would also have fun to shoot with or drive a tank through heavy terrain, little trees or cars, I would have, and had, fun blowing things up or shooting with a bazooka. In my opinion there should be as less possibilities, that this can happen in public or home.

There are too many people who can not handle things accountably.(nearly) everyone has the right to handle loaded weapons at home, even they shoot through walls? You don't let everyone drive a car, unless they killed some with it. You have to prove your knowledge, responsibility and skills before you're allowed to dive freely.

But, my question's was about home defence and not firearms in general.

Unless you know why someone is in your house, it is always better be on the cautious side. Especially if said person has forcefully uninvited themselves into your house.


There is something that a wise man named Col. Jeff Cooper wrote called:

The 4 Rules of Firearms Safety
...1;2;3;4;...

Mr. Tread. Alot of these risks can be mitigated with common sense rules like this. Training is key when handling firearms. Should you become proficient in handling a firearm, you will not have to worry about accidently hitting your family as things like this will make you more aware of what you are doing and how you are doing it.

Right! It could also be a person you don't want to hurt.
It seems like you and some other have the responsibility in use with guns, but that's not a precondition to use it and I'm sure many don't follow that rules or train enough.

You can never 100% sure at a moving target or about ricochet bullets from bones or objects, especially a family member is close to the psychotic person. Training and HP/SP ammunition can lower the risk, but it is still there.

SWAT teams are usually called in for a barricaded hostage situation, not home invasions.

The psychotic threatening/hostage situation wasn't that far away from SWAT, for a shooting example, or.

[Tread]

In this country Mr. Tread someone somewhere used their piece to PREVENT a crime today. And yesterday it happened and will tommorow. These occurances are not reported.

And even more to do a crime.

Happened to me twice a few years ago.
...
Now had I not been armed that day Mr. Tread what do you suppose might have happened to my family?

The second time ...
In both these instances my pistols prevented crimes without firing a shot.

I didn't want to discuss weapons for self defence or in general, but you ask me directly to it.

I can't say what would have happened. There are not many facts to build a clear picture about the situations. Not one of the three persons that walked in your direction has threatened you or your family. A violent potential or weapons wasn't visible either, expect by you.
You judge them to be criminal by their looks, age and walking in your direction. You should always be aware in suspicious settings, but it's not sure they were criminals. In the second case, if he watched you the whole time, and waited for you, he is supposable after your money.

If you want to say swinging around a gun on street keeps people away, if criminal or not, you are right.

[Tread]

Unlike most people here, I actually used to get robbed quite often when I was whoring in the big city.
...
I'd like to get a shotgun to complete my home protection package.

You don't have to answer, but I like to know:
Are you ever violent or by threatening robed while being at home?
Why do you want an additional shotgun to complete home protection?

[The Conquistador]

This is all well and good, but it's not happening. No training is required to own a gun. I found it ludicrous when California required training to buy mace but not a gun.:frown:

The PRK is chock full of many stupid rules. To try and grasp the stupidity would drive you mad. Actually you do need proof of training to buy a handgun in Commiefornia. If you see someone who you know has not had firearms training and is being stupid with a weapon i.e. pointing it at someone or pointing it at themselves to demonstrate that "a loaded gun won't fire on SAFE" you are well within your rights to slap the ever loving shit out of them and chastise them for being a dumbshit.

[The Conquistador]

And even more to do a crime.

A common fallacy that people have regarding firearms.

[The Conquistador]

I totally forgot the US walls that are made of paper (exaggeration like to blow away an elephant). Why use weapons that go through humans and walls for home defence. That's a risk for uninvolved people.

The .223/5.56 will not punch through a human, even with ball ammuntion. It was designed to tumble on contact with a target. There is even frangible ammunition marketed for home defense use as it shatters once it penetrates an object. it will go through 1 layer of sheetrock but not the other.

To buy a rifle, that is usually made for longer distances than handguns, for the reason of home defence sounds for me like an excuse, or a big calibre guns.

You may view it as an excuse but alot of people view it as using the most efficient tool for the job. One mans paranoia is another mans prudent planning.

The difference is: I need something to travel time efficient, and no need for a big home defence weapon, in my opinion.

But regardless of the tool and what it is used for, you still use it because it is more efficient, correct?

You can never 100% sure at a moving target or about ricochet bullets from bones or objects, especially a family member is close to the psychotic person. Training and HP/SP ammunition can lower the risk, but it is still there.

It takes considerable skill to fire a pistol and accurately hit a target even 25meters away. As much as you might not think so, a rifle is more accurate than a pistol. If one of my family members was in the vicinity of the criminal, I would trust a rifle over a pistol. There are risks involved in everything you do, regardless of whether or not you are shooting, driving to the store, playing a game of soccer or football etc. Proper training is key.

[Tread]

A common fallacy that people have regarding firearms.

From Wikipedia Gun Violence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Self-protection)

Between 1987 and 1990, David McDowall found that guns were used in defense during a crime incident 64,615 times annually.
...
During this same time period, 1987 and 1990, there were 46,319 gun homicides, and the National Crime Victimization Survey estimates that 2,628,532 nonfatal crimes involving guns occurred.
...
Kleck's survey with Marc Gertz in fact used the largest sample size of any survey that ever asked respondents about defensive gun use - 4,977 cases, far more than is typical in national surveys.[69] A study of gun use in the 1990s, by David Hemenway at the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, found that criminal use of guns is far more common than self-defense use of guns.
...

[The Conquistador]

From Wikipedia Gun Violence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Self-protection)

It would sound more believable if it was from something other than wikipedia.

[Tread]

The .223/5.56 will not punch through a human, even with ball ammuntion. It was designed to tumble on contact with a target. There is even frangible ammunition marketed for home defense use as it shatters once it penetrates an object. it will go through 1 layer of sheetrock but not the other.

OK, read it up, was confused by statements in this thread.

You may view it as an excuse but alot of people view it as using the most efficient tool for the job. One mans paranoia is another mans prudent planning.

The most efficient to kill unwanted guests? Not everything is: If I don't kill him, he will kill me. A weapon with high lethal effects is not necessary, in my opinion.

But regardless of the tool and what it is used for, you still use it because it is more efficient, correct?

More time efficient than walking, yes.
You can argue a big gun is more efficient than a small one (determent and man stopping).
A machine gun would be even more, or a XM214 Microgun, a tank, but is there a need? (the elephant again)

It takes considerable skill to fire a pistol and accurately hit a target even 25meters away. As much as you might not think so, a rifle is more accurate than a pistol. If one of my family members was in the vicinity of the criminal, I would trust a rifle over a pistol. There are risks involved in everything you do, regardless of whether or not you are shooting, driving to the store, playing a game of soccer or football etc. Proper training is key.

Do you have rooms that are 25m long? If it comes really high 10m.
Would you go get your gun, aim and shoot, while your family is threaten by a psychotic person?

It would sound more believable if it was from something other than wikipedia.

You can follow the references from Wikipedia, if that helps. What are your needs for a believable reference?

[The Conquistador]

The most efficient to kill unwanted guests? Not everything is: If I don’t kill him, he will kill me. A weapon with high lethal effects is not necessary, in my opinion.

What you just said is contrary to the purpose of why people have home defense weapons. To stop an attacker as quickly as possible. And to stop someone as quickly as possible, a weapon needs to have high lethal effects otherwise an attacker will be wounded and still be able to be a threat.

More time efficient than walking, yes.
You can argue a big gun is more efficient than a small one (determent and man stopping).
A machine gun would be even more, or a XM214 Microgun, a tank, but is there a need? (the elephant again)

There is obviously a practicality issue with that. A machine gun is to clumsy to use indoors where as an M4 is alot more maneuverable and has alot more accuracy and distance than a pistol. So practicality outweighs need in those examples.

Do you have rooms that are 25m long? If it comes really high 10m.
Would you go get your gun, aim and shoot, while your family is threaten by a psychotic person?

My Mosin is always at the ready, zeroed in and loaded. When I am not around it is locked up. But when I am, it is ready at a seconds notice.

You can follow the references from Wikipedia, if that helps. What are your needs for a believable reference?

What it fails to mention is:

1) Crimes thwarted by the victim being armed. It does not display the ratio of crimes averted by the victim being armed vs crimes actually commited with weapons. Alot of attacks that were stopped without shots fired don't get added into the statistics as they don't fall into the "violent crimes" category. All those statistics do is record how many violent crimes actually went through unhindered.

2) Justifiable Homicide. Again, Homicide, whether justifiable or not still falls into the "homicide" category. Until there is a distinction between the two when the statistics are collected and processed, the numbers are still largely skewed.

[Rachel]

[QUOTE=Tread;11172 Not one of the three persons that walked in your direction has threatened you or your family. A violent potential or weapons wasn’t visible either, expect by you.
You judge them to be criminal by their looks, age and walking in your direction. You should always be aware in suspicious settings, but it’s not sure they were criminals. In the second case, if he watched you the whole time, and waited for you, he is supposable after your money.



Hmm I thought I described the situation quite well enough for a rational person to put themselves in my shoes at that time and place. And I suppose all 3 gentlemen were just approaching me for friendship and good conversation? You are very naive Tread.

[The Conquistador]

Hmm I thought I described the situation quite well enough for a rational person to put themselves in my shoes at that time and place. And I suppose all 3 gentlemen were just approaching me for friendship and good conversation? You are very naive Tread.


It's not his faul Rachel. Maybe this pic will help you understand.:innocent:

[SweetCharmer]

ok now this is just my observation but i think this Thread has slightly lost the plot.

this thread obviously started out in helping people get information on getting DIFFERENT ways on self defense but all i can is that its boiled down into an argument between those inside and outside of America. look Tread. Stop trying to push your views onto people when guns have obviously worked in america for the last 200 years or so. different cultures have different rules, thats the beauty of this world. in the end you're gonna get crime anywhere. plus i don't hear you going on about other places with gun crime like thailand, etc.

At the same time Rachel and AngryPost, i know from reading the posts that guns have saved you or your loved ones time and time again yet it wouldn't hurt to acknowledge the usefulness of hand to hand. there was a story here in the UK of a cop that was almost stabbed in the neck if it weren't for his training and fast reflexes yet at the same time here people are so eager to have a gun that they've taken to modifying BB guns to fire live ammo. gun crime is everywhere. different countries deal with it in different ways and for each country it seems to be working for a while.

Bottom line. if someone asks for advice on this thread instead for stating the importance of a gun alone. put down some ideas for hand to hand as a added help. it never pays to be well prepared.

Love & Peace

[The Conquistador]

At the same time Rachel and AngryPost, i know from reading the posts that guns have saved you or your loved ones time and time again yet it wouldn't hurt to acknowledge the usefulness of hand to hand. there was a story here in the UK of a cop that was almost stabbed in the neck if it weren't for his training and fast reflexes yet at the same time here people are so eager to have a gun that they've taken to modifying BB guns to fire live ammo. gun crime is everywhere. different countries deal with it in different ways and for each country it seems to be working for a while.

Mr. Tread was asking why some use rifles and shotguns as opposed to a pistol; I was merely explaining why, albeit we did get a wee sidetracked. The importance of unarmed combat(UAC) is definetly not overlooked. When in public, I carry a blade on me but sometimes it is not practical or lawful to do so and I know various holds and strikes for when I am unarmed. There is a wooden riot baton that I keep close to my bed that I also train with. Knowing other ways of injuring or killing people is definetly a useful skill.

Ms. Rachel also stated in another thread that she is trained in Muay Thai.

[Rachel]

I told Pixie to carry brass knuckles like I do.

[Tread]

ok now this is just my observation but i think this Thread has slightly lost the plot.

this thread obviously started out in helping people get information on getting DIFFERENT ways on self defense but all i can is that its boiled down into an argument between those inside and outside of America. look Tread. Stop trying to push your views onto people when guns have obviously worked in america for the last 200 years or so.

Indeed it lost slightly the plot. I've problems to not voice my opinion, if getting asked. But I'm not trying to push my views on other. I want to understand, why so many get a big weapon extra for home defence. I grasped KittyKaiti's and AngryPostman's personal opinion, but in general I don't get it and would like to hear more.
Even it was enjoyable, for the threads sake I'll stop asking why they expect some kind of Jason Voorhees in their home. (Damn, did it again)


Martial Arts:
In my opinion American Kenpō Karate, German Ju-Jutsu and a bit easier (Civilian) Krav Maga are the best choices for self defence. But the most martial arts have good working defence techniques.
If you don't want to learn the full program a usual self defence course teaches essential moves, behaviour, responsibility and confidence in a short time.

Personally I would prefer Spetsnaz Combat-Sambo or Jeet Kune Do, but it's nearly impossible to get a proper training in these.

[The Conquistador]

Martial Arts:
In my opinion American Kenpō Karate, German Ju-Jutsu and a bit easier (Civilian) Krav Maga are the best choices for self defence. But the most martial arts have good working defence techniques.
If you don't want to learn the full program a usual self defence course teaches essential moves, behaviour, responsibility and confidence in a short time.

Personally I would prefer Spetsnaz Combat-Sambo or Jeet Kune Do, but it's nearly impossible to get a proper training in these.

If I had the time to thoroughly learn martial arts, I would want to learn any of these 4: Muay Thai, Wrestling(Greco-Roman or Collegiate), Krav Maga or Judo.

Combat Sambo is pretty badass but I don't know anyone down here that teaches it. :(

[randolph]

If I had the time to thoroughly learn martial arts, I would want to learn any of these 4: Muay Thai, Wrestling(Greco-Roman or Collegiate), Krav Maga or Judo.

Combat Sambo is pretty badass but I don't know anyone down here that teaches it. :(

I like the Harrison Ford system in Raiders.
When a badass comes at you, blow him away.

[Rachel]

Hey Tread what do you guys do over there if someone breaks into your home with the intent to rob and maybe hurt you? Fight like a Frenchman? I surrender!

[SweetCharmer]

Hey Tread what do you guys do over there if someone breaks into your home with the intent to rob and maybe hurt you? Fight like a Frenchman? I surrender!

now i don't know if thats an ill intent jab or not but if it were me being robbed most likely the robber would have a knife or bat or something as guns aren't legal and hard to come by. if he were coming at me i'd be able to get the knife of of him and use it against him as i've been trained to. this might not seem the most likely but tai chi helps. for a couple of years i use to learn it and learn that even the slightest movement can have big results. instead of stopping the attacker. guide him away from you by moving his body with his own momentum. this would result him in stabbing the wall with the knife and i'd beat the crap out of his because i've found out one good thing about robbers and all round thugs.

anything goes :D

[DSL]

I can get 3 shot groups with my 357 magnum at 30 feet away
nearly dead center, with my 03-A3 springfield a 3 shot group
at 500 yards!, without a scope mount the peephole is allways kept clear
you aim thru and she will fire thru.

[Tread]

Hey Tread what do you guys do over there if someone breaks into your home with the intent to rob and maybe hurt you? Fight like a Frenchman? I surrender!

Usually only call the police, cause they do it when nobody is at home, or they run away if they get spotted.
If the risk is too high, surrender is not the worst act (if you have a gun or not). Some would probably lock their self in a room and call the police. Other would chase them away, or fight them (with or without weapons). There are as much behaviours as in the US, only that guns are less common.
I don't know what I would do, the case isn't clear enough, and I never was in such a situation. I would probably call the police try to get something to identify the person (photo, car licence number, robber belongings, protect objects with fingerprints) before the person run away. If the person wants to hurt me, I would defend me in a reasonable way (this doesn't sound like a you or I death situation). If I can I would arrest the person until police is there (depending how fast, strong and what happens).


It is/was really difficult for me to not post more to your statements, but this would start a discussion that was/is not my intension.

[The Conquistador]

I can get 3 shot groups with my 357 magnum at 30 feet away
nearly dead center, with my 03-A3 springfield a 3 shot group
at 500 yards!, without a scope mount the peephole is allways kept clear
you aim thru and she will fire thru.

Oooooh! Oooooh! Oooooh! Is it a Springfield Armory or Rock Island Armory 1903? Gibbs Rifle Company is making 1903A4s that look pretty damn close to the real thing, the only noticeable differences that I could see were the markings on the rifle.

[randolph]

Oooooh! Oooooh! Oooooh! Is it a Springfield Armory or Rock Island Armory 1903? Gibbs Rifle Company is making 1903A4s that look pretty damn close to the real thing, the only noticeable differences that I could see were the markings on the rifle.

My dad had a 30 40 Kraig(sic), does that mean anything?
He used it for deer hunting.

[Rachel]

I'm sorry I took a good jab at you there. Hope you arent French lol Being that this thread started as self defense lets get to the heart of the matter. First and foremost is your mindset. The will to survive. By whatever means neccesary. Surrender isnt an option in my book. I'd rather go down swinging then die on my knees. If you have a choice of a weapon to defend your self with what would you choose? I'd take a bat over a stick. I'll take a firearm over the bat. I'll take a large gun over a smaller one.

[The Conquistador]

Actually Mr. Randolph, it's "Krag", a Norwegian designed rifle. ;) It was the first American military firearm to use smokeless powder instead of a compressed black powder loading and was carried by Teddy Roosevelt when he hit San Juan Hill.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Story_C/Classic+Test+Model+1896+Krag-Jorgensen+Carbine?packedargs=pagenum%3D1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag-J%C3%B8rgensen

It is quite similar to the .303 British round in dimension and power (but not interchangeable)

http://gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Chart_C/AMMUNITION+BALLISTICS+FOR+.30-40+Krag

http://gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Chart_C/AMMUNITION+BALLISTICS+FOR+.303+British

and has an unusual loading system (unusual in that it loads by means of a trapdoor and not a stripper clip like comparable Mauser or Mannlicher rifles of the time). Some purists will talk shit about the round and attributes of the rifle but until someone quantifies "dead", it is still useful for killing things like milk jugs, watermelons, large game and Spaniards. A good sturdy rifle overall.

[randolph]

I'm sorry I took a good jab at you there. Hope you arent French lol Being that this thread started as self defense lets get to the heart of the matter. First and foremost is your mindset. The will to survive. By whatever means neccesary. Surrender isnt an option in my book. I'd rather go down swinging then die on my knees. If you have a choice of a weapon to defend your self with what would you choose? I'd take a bat over a stick. I'll take a firearm over the bat. I'll take a large gun over a smaller one.

I have a little story about security. We have a house security system. It can be turned on of with hand held remotes. One of the buttons on the remote sends a silent alarm to the Sheriff. One day I came home shortly after my wife went to the market. I walked into the house with no alarm, went upstairs to my office and checked my computer. As I was sitting there I heard a noise downstairs. As I walked out of my room, two police officers pointed their guns at me and shouted "freeze". Needless to say I froze. I was shocked and asked what was going on. They said there was an emergency alarm here. My wife had intended to set the house alarm instead she pushed the emergency silent alarm button. I had a rifle in my room, I wonder what would have happened if I had come out of the room carrying it. Needless to say ,we disabled the silent alarm.:eek:

[Tread]

I'm sorry I took a good jab at you there. Hope you arent French lol Being that this thread started as self defense lets get to the heart of the matter. First and foremost is your mindset. The will to survive. By whatever means neccesary. Surrender isnt an option in my book. I'd rather go down swinging then die on my knees. If you have a choice of a weapon to defend your self with what would you choose? I'd take a bat over a stick. I'll take a firearm over the bat. I'll take a large gun over a smaller one.

I don't noticed a good jab, it's more that you have a wide open cover for counterattacks in your most statements. Like: your will to survive against never surrender, even it means you die for one dollar then giving it unharmed away to a predominant robber.
I stop responding to you in this thread, because I think if I start it would easily escalade. If you really want to force out my opinion to your gun views, you have to create a better fitting thread and only eventually I would post there one or two things.

[Rachel]

Awww another Christmas present I wont be getting

[The Conquistador]

Tread, Rachel. Why don't you settle this over a match of naked wrestling?

[aw9725]

Thought this was worth sharing. Much respect :respect: to them!

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2009/10/16/ctw.mckenzie.kenya.karate.granny.cnn

[DSL]

Talk about a kick now that is about the biggest gun that
i have fired with a big kick, and when using xx highpower loads.
my sister lives about a mile and a half from that firing range
and she can hear me shooting it.i used a 180 grain full metal jacket xx bullet
that had a big kick i am surprised the range officer let me fire that thing
i have to ask permission when firing large cal. guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcAgEgbIBcg

.p.s. that guy in the video looks all most like me too
Oooooh! Oooooh! Oooooh! Is it a Springfield Armory or Rock Island Armory 1903? Gibbs Rifle Company is making 1903A4s that look pretty damn close to the real thing, the only noticeable differences that I could see were the markings on the rifle.

[The Conquistador]

Thought this was worth sharing. Much respect :respect: to them!

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2009/10/16/ctw.mckenzie.kenya.karate.granny.cnn

I remember reading an article about Col. Rex Applegate, the author of Kill Or Get Killed, and He was talking about how he was walking down the street when two thugs tried to mug him. All he had was his cane and he whupped the shit out of them with a well placed strike to the head and groin.

Something is better than nothing.:yes:

http://closecombattraining.com/blog/?p=213 *A brief bio of Col. Applegate*

[aw9725]

Here's a few of my other "toys." I also have quite an extensive library of martial arts related books. That "knife-type-thing" next to the sword is a Smith and Wesson "First Response" tool. It can be flipped open with one hand like a switchblade if you practice... I carry one in my vehicle always. It can cut through seatbelts, has a pry bar, and a spring loaded carbide tip that can shatter a windshield. I have two, and mail-ordered them from U.S. Cavalry many years ago. Get one if you don't already own one!

Akido is something I would love to study one day. I only have the one book and have practiced just a few techniques from it.

I don't know where my copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob went--but it is recommended reading for anyone interested in self-defense.

[aw9725]

I remember reading an article about Col. Rex Applegate, the author of Kill Or Get Killed, and He was talking about how he was walking down the street when two thugs tried to mug him. All he had was his cane and he whupped the shit out of them with a well placed strike to the head and groin.

Something is better than nothing.:yes:

http://closecombattraining.com/blog/?p=213 *A brief bio of Col. Applegate*

He is legendary! He even created his own fighting knife:

http://www.gerber-tools.com/Gerber-Applegate-Fairbairn-Combat-5780.htm

One bad-ass dude! I'm glad he was on our side! :respect:

[The Conquistador]

Here's a few of my other "toys."

That thing to the bottom-right if your nightstick; is that a kubaton?

Also, I like the knuckle-knife combo.:yes::yes::yes:

[aw9725]

Yes it is. I bought a bunch of them a while back and used to give them as Christmas presents! :cool:

Most of that stuff I bought while living here in Indiana (almost no restrictions apply) or in Michigan (Detroit "Wayne County" has tight restrictions--what's the logic? Someone can go to Oakland county and get knives and other stuff quite easily). Don't know if they can be sent to "Kalifornia"?

My understanding is that there are holds and techniques for them. My use of one would be mostly be to apply to pressure points or strike the eyes, throat, or temples. Have you ever had training with one?

The knife is a Frostwood "Undertaker" bowie. I bought two of them just in case they were ever restricted and something happened to the first one. It has a 9" blade. When we were discussing home defense weapons--I thought about it--it is nearby if I couldn't get to my 12 ga. The SIG is kept in a safe so wouldn't be much good unless I had time.

Also, that little "dagger" between the Kobotan and the sword is called a "CIA letter opener." It is made of fiberglass and nylon and can be sharpened. You can put one in a necktie or tape it to your ankle. ;)

That Don's guns I posted pictures of is a great place to get stuff like this. At least in Indiana. I am pretty sure I got the Kubotans there.

[randolph]

I made this dagger in high school metal shop many years ago. Imagine doing this today?
:cool:

[The Conquistador]

Don't know if they can be sent to "Kalifornia"?

Not in the DPRK (Democratic Peoples Republic of Kalifornia)

Have you ever had training with one?

Nope :no::( But I would like to.

Also, that little "dagger" between the Kobotan and the sword is called a "CIA letter opener." It is made of fiberglass and nylon and can be sharpened. You can put one in a necktie or tape it to your ankle. ;)

My friend has one of those except his looks like a a small version of the cruciform bayonet usually found on Mosins, SKSs and early AK's. Those things are badass. As usual, they are not found in the DPRK. :censored::censored::censored:

[The Conquistador]

I made this dagger in high school metal shop many years ago. Imagine doing this today?
:cool:

Right on Mr. Randolph! Have you ever gone to Jantz's website? It's http://www.jantzsupply.com/ and they have all sorts of supplies to make your own knives like knife hobby sets, handle materials, different types of barstock like stainless steel, tool steel, "Damascus" pattern welded steel, Mokume-Game pattern welded metals etc.

I think you'd like it. :yes::yes::yes:

[aw9725]

I made this dagger in high school metal shop many years ago. Imagine doing this today?
:cool:


That is very cool. Nice work. No they wouldn't let anyone get away with it today. When I was in HS metal shop as a Freshman (84-85) we made "throwing stars" out of sheet metal--if you got caught it was detention. Anyway--I think I still have mine somewhere. ;)

[aw9725]

Here are a few more items from my collection. The big one is a Mortal Kombat "Raptor" knife made for the movie. Cool looking but not really practical (poorly balanced--awkward grip). The ones on the left are a set of 3 Gil Hibben throwing knives made famous by Steven Segal in "Under Siege." The "hatchet" is a "throwing axe." Yes it sticks... ;) The odd shaped one next to the Raptor is for "skinning." The "T shaped" one--put it in your fist and--well you get the idea... On the left is a cheap switchblade and the little guy on the right is a Gerber pocket knife bought at the local Dick's sporting goods.

[aw9725]

The blade alone on this F:censored:er is 11 inches! It is very similar to the one used in Rambo III. I bought it as a novelty collectors piece. Not practical. Very "blade" heavy--more like a sword. One could use two hands and "slash" with it. Also not sure of its legality in other states.

[SweetCharmer]

If you have a choice of a weapon to defend your self with what would you choose?

well for me it would have to be any of my 7 blades i have in my room ranging from 6inches to F:censored:KING big but if i had a choice out of guns too i'd have to pick the colt .45 something about it i like dunno why

[DSL]

Well i have a very large 13 inch bowie knife in my apartment like the one in
the pic but that one is only 9 inches the one i have is 13 inch blade with
engraved markings on the blade and gold trim on the handle
i paid $350 for it in a knife show here a few years back.
i also have a 10 inch rambo knife also camo handle.

[Rachel]

Tread, Rachel. Why don't you settle this over a match of naked wrestling?

It wouldnt even be a fair contest. Who you got your money on?

[randolph]

Actually Mr. Randolph, it's "Krag", a Norwegian designed rifle. ;) It was the first American military firearm to use smokeless powder instead of a compressed black powder loading and was carried by Teddy Roosevelt when he hit San Juan Hill.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Story_C/Classic+Test+Model+1896+Krag-Jorgensen+Carbine?packedargs=pagenum%3D1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag-J%C3%B8rgensen

It is quite similar to the .303 British round in dimension and power (but not interchangeable)

http://gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Chart_C/AMMUNITION+BALLISTICS+FOR+.30-40+Krag

http://gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Chart_C/AMMUNITION+BALLISTICS+FOR+.303+British

and has an unusual loading system (unusual in that it loads by means of a trapdoor and not a stripper clip like comparable Mauser or Mannlicher rifles of the time). Some purists will talk shit about the round and attributes of the rifle but until someone quantifies "dead", it is still useful for killing things like milk jugs, watermelons, large game and Spaniards. A good sturdy rifle overall.

I also have my grandfathers H&R American double Action 5 shot 38 cal with a six inch hex barrel. Pre 1898 version. (photo of 4 inch model)
I don't think I would want to try it with modern ammo.:eek:

[aw9725]

the one i have is 13 inch blade with
engraved markings on the blade and gold trim on the handle
i paid $350 for it in a knife show here a few years back

Now THAT'S a knife! (I've sometimes heard those called "Texas Toothpicks") :cool:

[The Conquistador]

I also have my grandfathers H&R American double Action 5 shot 38 cal with a six inch hex barrel. Pre 1898 version. (photo of 4 inch model)
I don't think I would want to try it with modern ammo.:eek:

Yes. Do NOT try to run modern ammo through it! This pistol was chambered for Black Powder ammo and will create dangerous pressures when fired with smokeless powder. Unless you reload, don't go to the store and buy a box of .38 ammo for it.

If you ever take up reloading, you can build your own "flavors" of ammo. I have a loading press at home and I load 30-06 and .223. It's a fun hobby. :yes:

[The Conquistador]

It wouldnt even be a fair contest. Who you got your money on?

I would just be there to watch, not bet. hehehehe

[Rachel]

hmmm look at my angry face avatar

[The Conquistador]

hmmm look at my angry face avatar

Why so serious?

[Rachel]

Why so serious?

LOL A friend took this pic of me said I reminded him of Lorena Bobbit

[The Conquistador]

LOL A friend took this pic of me said I reminded him of Lorena Bobbit

Well don't chop my dick off!;)

[DSL]

Here is a video of my model 19 357 magnum revolver
but the one i have is chrome i got it in 1979 and looks brand new
to this day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF8lOE4Whtk

same groups i get damn!...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg3ZWiWq8fs

i have other weapons but not in my apartment
they are locked up in a vault.

another one of my handguns are
Colt 1911 45 MKIV Series 70 chrome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywpezg_wb3Q

[Rachel]

Nah I'd never do that honey. My B/F at the time said I had a crazy look in my eyes. Not in my heart.

[DSL]

ouch now there is a kick!
desert eagle 50 cal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X0XJ6j7JLM&feature=related

[The Conquistador]

That was funny!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

I'll bet she got a big ol' goose egg!


S&W .500 has more power though with better accuracy.

[DSL]

if you guys like sexy girls then you will love this
sexy girls with guns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9RYBcWljiA

a blonds revenge for all those dumb blode jokes posted
on the internet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7vD2ejf4OA&feature=related

Girl with Benelli 12 gauge auto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wp2FYPZeNU&feature=related

[aw9725]

I know that reality is dangerous, and I know guns have some advantages, and I didn’t want to question carrying or owning
So my first question was: What do you expect happens at your home?
Maybe I don’t know your criminals, but it seems like a rare exception that armed criminals want to hurt you at home.

You seem to collect weapons (I can understand), but why you declare one as home defence gun, and why not your handgun you use already as self defence gun.


Unfortunately depending on where you live it can be very bad. I am relatively well off and live in an affluent neighborhood. Even so, burglaries and robberies are fairly common. One of the contributing factors is the drug problem. Many of these robbers are armed and could well shoot you during the robbery. There have been many cases in the United States of people who were shot or beaten or tied up by burglars invading their home. Most the cases play out the same: the couple surrenders only to be tied up and killed. We recently had a notorious unsolved serial murder case (the "BTK" killer) come to a conclusion a few years ago. I remember this case as a child. I am always amazed at how easily the killers manage to subdue their victims. Almost never were the victims armed.

A little about me. I'm a University Professor and very well educated. I am also a fairly large man and very strong--I posted a picture of me working out elsewhere on this forum. I have always played sports and excelled at football ("American Style"). I was born in Detroit, Michigan, one of the most dangerous cities in the US and started taking Karate lessons at age 6. I have a third-degree black belt. My parents were nearly killed by armed robbers when I was very young. My grandmother's house was broken into several times. Our home in Detroit was vandalized repeatedly. And my aunt and uncle were beaten and hospitalized by muggers. One of my Dad's best friends was stabbed in a Men's room during a robbery attempt. When I was 5 I was beaten up by a gang of older kids.

In my own home, I have a 12 ga shotgun nearby in case someone were to break in and try do me or my family harm. My handgun is kept locked in a safe so it would take some time to work the combination. Have I ever had to use it? No. Fortunately. There were a couple of times when I was married when my wife and I were awakened by the dog barking and I went to investigate. I took my handgun and a flashlight with me. There had been several drug related burglaries in our neighborhood and we were afraid we might be next on the list.

One simply does not know what they might be facing when things go bad. Is it one intruder or attacker? Or several? Are they bigger than me? Stronger? Are they on drugs? Are they armed? I would like to be prepared for whatever... I think a shotgun is a very effective weapon under home defense conditions--especially at close range. Could I disarm someone myself? Probably. But only at close range. I have had training in this. Could someone "overpower" me? Not likely but you never know how big or strong or high on drugs they are. Would I surrender like others have and take my chances? Most definitely NO!

Honestly, I don't go around thinking about this topic that much. I have many other things in my life and I don't live in fear. If you met me you would find that I was very laid-back and easy going. My students love me. I have a very successful career in education and am well respected. I started this thread and wrote the original post because I was outraged at the beating of one of our members. I wanted to encourage those who never had even thought about "self-defense" to consider their options. "Hate crimes" in particular piss me off--I really have zero tolerance for bullies. When I was in college I had a gay friend that had been harassed by some of the other guys in the dorm. I paid them a visit one night--my friend never had trouble again... ;)

As for the real danger from crime... There are many statistics available. Much depends on where you live and where you go. Clearly there is a very real possibility of becoming a "statistic." Others here have shared with you their stories. Nothing in life is completely safe. Statistically, I probably am in a lot more danger riding my motorcycle than I am going downtown. Consider something like this: in the mid-west United States we have a high risk of dangerous storms and tornadoes. The Weather Service issues warnings, there are sirens and shelters, and most people who live here know what to do. But you don’t live in fear of them--you are aware and prepared. Regarding crime--I would much rather be prepared than to be a victim. :cool:

[The Conquistador]

if you guys like sexy girls then you will love this
sexy girls with guns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9RYBcWljiA


I like the brunette firing the AK-74 with the Bakelite mags. :yes::turnon:

[The Conquistador]

I think we should make a website that features trannies with guns. I think Miss Pixie and her shotgun would make an excellent model.

[DSL]

funny you should say that i tried to do a google search
yesterday afternoon but had no luck hope sombody has better luck

[KittyKaiti]

I think we should make a website that features trannies with guns. I think Miss Pixie and her shotgun would make an excellent model.

I'd model for that site too! But I don't know how safe it would be to play around with guns in a porn shoot...

[The Conquistador]

I'd model for that site too! But I don't know how safe it would be to play around with guns in a porn shoot...

If you can remember Col. Jeff Coopers 4 Rules of Gun Safety, you should be allright. :yes:

[jimnaseum]

You don't have to answer, but I like to know:
Are you ever violent or by threatening robed while being at home?
Why do you want an additional shotgun to complete home protection?

Hey Tread,
The first place I bought was a townhouse in a bad neighborhood, I got robbed twice, the second time the thief actally got my revolver.
I'm real non-violent, I've been in jail a couple week-ends for petty offenses, I didn't like it.
G Gordon Liddy had a radio show, he said when he was an F B I agent and his team had to go out on an assignment that was most likely going to be "up close and personal" that the agents wisked right by the machine guns for the Shotgun rack. That made sense to me.

[The Conquistador]

Granny stops robber with a gun. :)

http://www2.nbc4i.com/cmh/news/crime/article/70_Year-Old_Granny_Shoots_Would_Be_Robber/25296/#

[randolph]

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies --in the final sense --a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. . . . It is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1954

What would he think of us today?:frown:

[Tread]

Thanks to all who answered me to get a better understanding. I hope I'm not too annoying.

... I think a shotgun is a very effective weapon under home defense conditions--especially at close range. ...

That's a detailed answer. :respect:
I informed myself more about the crime in the different states compared to other countries. I was a bit surprised that I live in a county with so low homicides. And murders are done on the street, bars, or money transports. In other cases the murderer was a trusted person to the victims, friend, family, benefactor (tramping, meal, lodging), a client (prostitution), or something like this.
Maybe I don't know enough about the violent home attackers in the US, serial killers or about the addicts with money problems to see the home defence need.

I also looked up the advantages and disadvantages of shotguns, and still don't see why to buy an extra one.
A shotgun (pump-action) and the shells are usually cheaper than handguns but it's heavier and not so handy in buildings. They usually have less shells/bullets and a lower rate of fire (pump-action) than semi-automatic handguns. They are easier to use and have a better stopping power with one hit. If you have to shoot more than once the handgun is better. The spread of shot against the accurately of the handgun is not a big advantage at a room close rage. The penetration is lesser (limbs, walls).
So what is the reason not to use the gun you already have and use for self defence? If you let a shotgun out of the safe, you could also let your handgun at that place.




Hey Tread,
The first place I bought was a townhouse in a bad neighborhood, I got robbed twice, the second time the thief actally got my revolver.
I'm real non-violent, I've been in jail a couple week-ends for petty offenses, I didn't like it.
G Gordon Liddy had a radio show, he said when he was an F B I agent and his team had to go out on an assignment that was most likely going to be "up close and personal" that the agents wisked right by the machine guns for the Shotgun rack. That made sense to me.

I meant, was there one who robbed you violent or threatening at/in your home, while you were home.

Why it makes sense to you or/and the agents?

[The Conquistador]

Thanks to all who answered me to get a better understanding. I hope I’m not too annoying.

Nope. You're not being annoying :)

A shotgun (pump-action) and the shells are usually cheaper than handguns but it’s heavier and not so handy in buildings.

Compared to a pistol, yes. But a pistol still takes considerable training to hit a target accurately even at close range.

They usually have less shells/bullets and a lower rate of fire (pump-action) than semi-automatic handguns.

True, but you forget that 1 shell of 000 buckshot contains 10 pellets roughly 9mm in diameter. That means 1 shell of 12 gauge 000 buck has the same capacity as 1 magazine of 9mm Parabellum. You will have more hits on target vs. rounds fired with a shotgun than a pistol.

They are easier to use and have a better stopping power with one hit. If you have to shoot more than once the handgun is better. The spread of shot against the accurately of the handgun is not a big advantage at a room close rage. The penetration is lesser (limbs, walls).

If that were true, more troops would use a pistol for clearing rooms instead of a shotgun. In CQB, the shotgun is king. Pistols are generally used in areas where it is not practical to to have a larger weapon (i.e. concealed carry purposes, inside a vehicle etc) or is used as a way to fight your way to a more powerful weapon.

Handguns take considerable amount training to hit something accurately compared to a shotgun or rifle. Pistols have less stopping power unless you are comparing the ammo to birdshot which does not penetrate deep and has a large spread. The spread of the shot can be changed by the amount of choke the shotgun has; the tighter the choke, the tighter your spread will be. At longer distances even with the spread, more pellets of buck will hit a target vs. pistol rounds. If I remember correctly (which I don't) the spread after 20 ft. begins to open up 1 inch every 6ft-10ft depending on the load and choke.

If you are firing slugs from a shotgun, they will reach out and touch someone accurately at 100+ meters(Accuracy tapers off at around 125-150 meters.) which is alot greater than the pistols 25-50 meter range.

The penetration of the ammo depends on the loading. #4, #1, 0, 00, and 000 buckshot penetrates deeper than birdshot (hence why birdshot is used for hunting birds and buckshot is used for hunting deer.)

So what is the reason not to use the gun you already have and use for self defence? If you let a shotgun out of the safe, you could also let your handgun at that place.

Again, it all depends on operator preference. Someone may not like the size of a shotgun and choose a pistol, another person may not hit accurately with a pistol but can hit better with a shotgun or a carbine. It all depends on what you are comfortable with. If you are comfortable with a pistol, get a pistol. If you are comfortable with a shotgun, get a shotgun and so on and so forth.

:):respect:

[Rachel]

[QUOTE=TheAngryPostman








If you are firing slugs from a shotgun, they will reach out and touch someone accurately at 100+ meters(Accuracy tapers off at around 125-150 meters.) which is alot greater than the pistols 25-50 meter range.



Dont stick your head up at 200 yards with the newest sabot slug loads. 3 inch groups are possible with full rifled barreled slug guns like my Winchester 1300 12 Ga. shown here. 1800FPS loads generating over 3000 pounds feet of muzzle energy rival most high powered rifles. And you are starting out with a .50 to .74 caliber 437 grain bullet.

[The Conquistador]

Dont stick your head up at 200 yards with the newest sabot slug loads. 3 inch groups are possible with full rifled barreled slug guns like my Winchester 1300 12 Ga. shown here. 1800FPS loads generating over 3000 pounds feet of muzzle energy rival most high powered rifles. And you are starting out with a .50 to .74 caliber 437 grain bullet.

Ooooooooh! What ammo do you shoot? Is the barrel rifled or are the slugs rifled?:drool:

Have you ever shot the Auto 5?

[Rachel]

However for sheer intimidation factor Nothing beats TWO .74 caliber barrels!

[The Conquistador]

However for sheer intimidation factor Nothing beats TWO .74 caliber barrels!

Ooooooooooh! :drool:

[Rachel]

I've tried several diferent brands of slugs through the gun. (Full rifled barrel). Hornady SSTs seem to group the tightest. I've gotten clover leafed 3 shot 1 inch groups at 100 yards. If my younger son is going to use it, I resight with Remington reduced recoil slugs (1300FPS). Depends on where they want to sit. If using one of my buckshot throwers I load with Winchester copper plated 00. I prefer the 3 inch shells for the extra 3 pellets and better grouping( all pellets on a paper plate at 50 yards ). I've shot my friends Browning auto 5 I dont really care for autos I have 2 870s the Win 1300 pump and the Spanish 12 Ga side by side. I hate over and unders.

[The Conquistador]

That's awesome! Isn't the SST loads the frangible stuff?

Does your side-by-side ever make you want to strap a chainsaw to your hand and fight demon hordes?

[Rachel]

SSTs are a saboted .50 cal slug The double barrel is very light and balanced. Double trigger can fire either barrel first so you can have a choice of a first shot load. 2 quick shots. If I'm hunting South Jersey it's much brushier I bring the short double. If the terrain is more open I opt for the slug gun.

[The Conquistador]

SSTs are a saboted .50 cal slug The double barrel is very light and balanced. Double trigger can fire either barrel first so you can have a choice of a first shot load. 2 quick shots. If I'm hunting South Jersey it's much brushier I bring the short double. If the terrain is more open I opt for the slug gun.

Cool! :p:respect:

[WudLuv2try]

A thing about 'Self Defence'

Guns... knives...

Are you REALLY going to blow his brains out?

Stab him in the guts?

AVOIDING is the best.

Don't get in fights in the first place.

There is no shame in running away.

[Rachel]

Run run run away live to run another day? Run where? Away from home? Running may be an option if you are a track star. If not...

[The Conquistador]

A thing about 'Self Defence'

Guns... knives...

Are you REALLY going to blow his brains out?

Stab him in the guts?

AVOIDING is the best.

Don't get in fights in the first place.

There is no shame in running away.

You fail to notice such things as home invasions where they have brought the fight to you. I pretty much guarantee you that anyone who has a CCW or home defense weapon is not going out picking fights.

[rpm]

I am licensed to carry a concealed firearm and have a few different guns to carry depending on what I will be doing or how I'm dressed. I normally carry a 9mm but also have a snub nosed .38 and a smaller .380 auto.

For the home, I am fully prepared. I have a 12 gauge shotgun, an AR-15 and an AK-47. If someone ever breaches the security of my home at night with the intent to cause harm, that will be the last mistake they ever make.

For those in this thread talking about backing away or getting out of a situation, sure, that is the best way to do it if at all possible but you will not always be able to do so. I have a 9 year old daughter to protect and I will do so at any cost...and yes, I am fully prepared (mentally and physically) to shoot someone if I have to in order to protect myself or my little girl. It's not something I want to do but I know it's possible that there may not be a choice.

[WudLuv2try]

Often I find myself 'LOOKING FOR TROUBLE'.

Instead of looking for safe way out, I look for trouble.

But I shouldn't do that. Instead, I should tell myself,

It's OK to just back off. Let it go.

[Mel Asher]

Often I find myself 'LOOKING FOR TROUBLE'.

Instead of looking for safe way out, I look for trouble.

But I shouldn't do that. Instead, I should tell myself,

It's OK to just back off. Let it go.

The real enemy is FEAR. This causes us to over-react, to go weak at the knees, become paralysed with indecision, to crap ourselves etc. when faced with what we perceive as a threatening situation. The legal position on using force as a response varies considerably from country to country, and it is not always possible to argue successfully that one's own violent response was either appropriate or reasonable. With such a possibility it is essential to control the Fight or Flight reaction to be able to respond cooly and objectively. As has already been pointed out, Walking Away from aggression is best if it can be achieved without provoking further aggression and you're not already placed in a no-place-to-turn position.

Self Control is extremely difficult in situations of extreme danger. To reach this level of Zen a number of Martial Arts do offer a way. It seems a contradition in terms for a Martial Art to claim to be primarily defensive, but this is indeed the case with one or two. Classical Aikido is a case in point where an Advanced Practitioner would consider it a retrograde step to use more force than was necessary to achieve neutalisation of an adversary. Almost every class I have ever attended ( and I have lost count of how many ) every Instructor has always pointed out that Walking Away is the hardest thing that anyone can do, even for the most advanced practitioner.
And in situations that you cannot avoid ? The system of training allows you to remain calm and respond / think swiftly and to make the right choice, even if it has to be a violent one ( for ' violent ' read also ' passive ' ) A couple of Karate schools promote similar ideas.

And how long does it take ? Basic competency 2 to 3 years. Near total self-confidence a lot longer.

Add to this a course or two on Accepting and Managing Directed Anger, and you will feel real good about yourself, and equally aware that you don't know it all !

Meantime, other precautions are common sense. Minimum money and no credit cards in wallet, avoidance of dark places etc. The list goes on.

I also rely on an extensive a vile collection of insults, aggression and smarm. And it is surprising how effective a touch of ' Black Humour ' can be.

I agree. Fear stalks our streets in places unsavoury, so by all means be prepared.

:cool:

[Rachel]

He bravely ran away He bravely ran away. When danger reared it's ugly head he turned his tail and bravely fled Brave, brave Sir Robin

[Mel Asher]

He bravely ran away He bravely ran away. When danger reared it's ugly head he turned his tail and bravely fled Brave, brave Sir Robin

Brits now seem noted for their cynicism, so indeed the popularity of that intrepid band of burlesque Brits Monty Python. But how does a cynic respond to very-real threat ? Not very commendably or bravely, I would imagine. But bravery comes in various guises, which was perhaps the theme behind my earlier post. It takes a peculiar sort of bravery to walk away from a threat ( if indeed any opening is available ), when the instinct is to kick, punch, stab or shoot one's way out of trouble.

That said, this thread seems to be mainly about Gun enthusiasts promoting the benefits and / or enjoyment of using guns. The reality is that complete reliance upon only one such a set of skills, instaed of having a menu of skills upon which to draw, might offer security only from an extreme emergency situation, not from the problems which might develop from precipitous action.
I feel that concentrating exclusively on firearms solutions is rather too far removed from the thread originator's first post.

Meantime I will withdraw and hide trembling in my dojo, leaving my rusting rifle at home !

Enjoy the club.

[randolph]

Is it better to be a live coward or dead hero? :yes::no::frown:

[Mel Asher]

Is it better to be a live coward or dead hero? :yes::no::frown:

Are those the only permissible combinations ? Dead Coward seems quite likely too - how likely, depends on how resourceful. Live Hero would by definition be pretty resourceful. It would mean he beat the odds and got accolades for it too. It all depends on how you choose to stack the deck !

:respect:

[The Conquistador]

This is my backup weapon should my rifle poop out on me; 3 feet of hard wood in the form of a riot baton. AKA: Hippie shampoo (works best when applied to head)

[WudLuv2try]

Are those the only permissible combinations ? Dead Coward seems quite likely too - how likely, depends on how resourceful. Live Hero would by definition be pretty resourceful. It would mean he beat the odds and got accolades for it too. It all depends on how you choose to stack the deck !

:respect:

Amen.

I think you know what you're talking about. :)

[Be_my_nude]

This seems to be a very macho thread, but I suppose it's to be expected with all you testosterone-loaded guys doing a centre-stage. I think it's all about a state of mind. Like sexual assault, the weakest and seeming-weakest are most likely to be the first to be attacked. This doesn't mean that I should walk around with a bowie knife strapped to my hip. It means that if my body-language is confident and self-assured, a would-be assailant is more likely to move on and pick on someone else. This does not mean I do not carry a surprise with me in case of being cornered. I certainly will if I go into parts of a city which I do not know very well. But I usually check carefully so as not to drift into danger unprepared. So far I've only run into trouble once, and I think he was more scared than I was !

[DSL]

i doubt i could fit one of these in my apartment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88xdRq2QczM

[The Conquistador]

i doubt i could fit one of these in my apartment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88xdRq2QczM

I remember hearing about how a British and a french sub that had both gone quiet had collided with each other. :lol:

[The Conquistador]

I feel pretty chipper after this weekend. I had range qualification and I scored a 33 out of 40 targets hit. I know I could have done alot better but I am pretty content with my score overall. :)

[Tread]

They are easier to use and have a better stopping power with one hit. If you have to shoot more than once the handgun is better. The spread of shot against the accurately of the handgun is not a big advantage at a room close rage. The penetration is lesser (limbs, walls).
If that were true, more troops would use a pistol for clearing rooms instead of a shotgun. In CQB, the shotgun is king. Pistols are generally used in areas where it is not practical to to have a larger weapon (i.e. concealed carry purposes, inside a vehicle etc) or is used as a way to fight your way to a more powerful weapon.
I don't think the shotgun is king in CQB. It depends on the situation. I think submachine guns are more flexible and more often used by special units in CQB. But that has not much to do with home defence.


They usually have less shells/bullets and a lower rate of fire (pump-action) than semi-automatic handguns.
True, but you forget that 1 shell of 000 buckshot contains 10 pellets roughly 9mm in diameter. That means 1 shell of 12 gauge 000 buck has the same capacity as 1 magazine of 9mm Parabellum. You will have more hits on target vs. rounds fired with a shotgun than a pistol.

They are easier to use and have a better stopping power with one hit. If you have to shoot more than once the handgun is better. The spread of shot against the accurately of the handgun is not a big advantage at a room close rage. The penetration is lesser (limbs, walls).
... ...
Handguns take considerable amount training to hit something accurately compared to a shotgun or rifle. Pistols have less stopping power unless you are comparing the ammo to birdshot which does not penetrate deep and has a large spread. The spread of the shot can be changed by the amount of choke the shotgun has; the tighter the choke, the tighter your spread will be. At longer distances even with the spread, more pellets of buck will hit a target vs. pistol rounds. If I remember correctly (which I don't) the spread after 20 ft. begins to open up 1 inch every 6ft-10ft depending on the load and choke.

If you are firing slugs from a shotgun, they will reach out and touch someone accurately at 100+ meters(Accuracy tapers off at around 125-150 meters.) which is alot greater than the pistols 25-50 meter range.

So what is the reason not to use the gun you already have and use for self defence? If you let a shotgun out of the safe, you could also let your handgun at that place.
Again, it all depends on operator preference. Someone may not like the size of a shotgun and choose a pistol, another person may not hit accurately with a pistol but can hit better with a shotgun or a carbine. It all depends on what you are comfortable with. If you are comfortable with a pistol, get a pistol. If you are comfortable with a shotgun, get a shotgun and so on and so forth.
If you miss one time, 10 pellets miss, or 10 pellets can't focus on more than one target. There is still a capacity advantage. 1 buckshot has not the same energy than a magazine 9mm.
It can't be much more difficult to hit a human sized target with a pistol than a shotgun at max. Room distances.
In a defence situation you don't know how much attack, for a quick reaction at a close combat I see more advantages for a pistol than a shotgun, plus it can be carried for self defence if it is allowed (I still think a gun is not a good solution).

My question still is why some have a gun, and buy a shotgun or rifle extra for home defence (not collecting or sport).

[The Conquistador]

My question still is why some have a gun, and buy a shotgun or rifle extra for home defence (not collecting or sport).


More power. Which would you rather have to defend yourself? A 1/4" wooden dowel or a Louisville Slugger?

[The Conquistador]

It can't be much more difficult to hit a human sized target with a pistol than a shotgun at max. Room distances.


It all depends on the operator.

[The Conquistador]

I think it's all about a state of mind.

This is correct. Situational awareness can help you avoid alot of problems before you even get into them. As the Russian proverb goes,"The bear who spots the trap cannot be caught".

The mind is the most dangerous weapon; everything else is just a tool, an extension of your body.

[aw9725]

AngryPostman is right about "situational awareness." If we are caught off-guard we may have lost the fight before it even begins. The following five principles come from the Defend University (http://www.defendu.com/defend_university.htm) website. While taken specifically from their "rape prevention" course--I think it is sound advice for anyone.

1. Stay aware of people in your surroundings. Not surprisingly, criminals exhibit predatory behavior in preparing to attack. They will try to pick a casual location to look for their prey. They will look at their intended victim far more and for longer periods of time than social norms. They will move when the prey moves. They will stop and look around for witnesses. They will often make several passes by the prey in a sort of 'dry run', seeing if the victim will react or to get a sense of how the attack might work. Pay attention! Who is looking at you? Has the same person or car passed by you twice? Does someone appear to be moving with you?

2. Stay with people, go to people. Do not ever let yourself be taken somewhere. Cops call it the "secondary crime scene" and most of the time it will be where your worst nightmare resides. If you are approached in a public place do not get in a vehicle with him. Do not walk around the building to the alley -- STAY where others can see you. His worst fear is the fear of getting caught, so you should drop to the ground if you need to in order to prevent him from carrying you away. On the other hand, if you are in your house or another location that is private, you need to GO to people. His worst fear is the fear of getting caught -- run out the door to a neighbor’s. Crawl out a window onto the roof. Drive your car up to a diner or convenience store. Go where there are lights and others.

3. Keep a barrier between you and the bad guy. Use a barrier to block him or use distance to gain time. Keep your doors locked. Stay in your car. Force him to get through a barrier before he can get to you. Use a barrier of pepper spray. The more difficult you make it, the more time it takes him and that means he might be discovered.

4. Attract attention. The first thing he will say to you is "don't scream or I'll kill you". He's telling you exactly what will ruin his plan. Go ahead, ruin his plan -- create a disturbance, scream, throw things, blow the horn. If you think you should yell "fire" go right ahead. You can't count on others coming to your aid, but you want to appeal to his fear of getting caught and make him think that someone could hear you and be coming.

5. Use your strongest weapons against his weakest targets. His weakest targets are those that are most valuable, yet ironically, cannot be entirely strengthened. His eyes, throat, groin and knees are your primary targets. Your secondary targets are his face and his abdomen. Strong weapons that you can employ are your kicks using the bottom of your feet, your elbows, hammerfists and palm heel strikes.

[sesame]

AngryPostman is right about "situational awareness." If we are caught off-guard we may have lost the fight before it even begins. The following five principles come from the Defend University (http://www.defendu.com/defend_university.htm) website. While taken specifically from their "rape prevention" course--I think it is sound advice for anyone.

1. Stay aware of people in your surroundings. Not surprisingly, criminals exhibit predatory behavior in preparing to attack. They will try to pick a casual location to look for their prey. They will look at their intended victim far more and for longer periods of time than social norms. They will move when the prey moves. They will stop and look around for witnesses. They will often make several passes by the prey in a sort of 'dry run', seeing if the victim will react or to get a sense of how the attack might work. Pay attention! Who is looking at you? Has the same person or car passed by you twice? Does someone appear to be moving with you?
....

Thats a very useful piece of advice. Thanks aw9:respect:

[Tread]

More power. Which would you rather have to defend yourself? A 1/4" wooden dowel or a Louisville Slugger?

If weapons were in quick reach I would use the bat, because of the better blocking properties and the longer reach. If I know that I'll have to defend, I maybe have enough time to avoid the situation, or it is too late to arm myself.
In serious situations I never needed more than joint levers or playing cool/strong after the first hit against me and they stopped. I have a big violence inhibition threshold; I don't want to harm someone more than necessary (no one ever managed it to really freak me out).

More powerful weapons are more difficult to control in intensity. A kill happens faster with a baseball bat than with fists, or it happens faster with a shotgun than a pistol if you really have to use it.

[Rachel]

[QUOTE= A kill happens faster with a baseball bat than with fists, or it happens faster with a shotgun than a pistol if you really have to use it.[/QUOTE]

Isnt that the whole idea? When you have to resort to the use of deadly force you shoot to kill not to wound.

[The Conquistador]

This seemed like it would fit in this thread.

[aw9725]

Good one! I especially like the "bottle opener." Very clever... :respect:

[The Conquistador]

When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club, pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm


Gotta love that sturdy Russian construction...;)

[The Conquistador]

Good one! I especially like the "bottle opener." Very clever... :respect:

How else would the Russians open bottles of vodka in a combat zone?


I can't believe that the PPSh drum mags are sturdy enough to hold someone up! :eek:

[jimnaseum]

[QUOTE=Tread;113642]
I meant, was there one who robbed you violent or threatening at/in your home, while you were home.
QUOTE]

When I lived in a bad neighborhood, I was jogging around the hood and some crack dealers threw a rock at me, so I scooped up a small rock and returned fire. The next thing I know, some hopped up jig is attacking me with a "for sale" sign from my next door neighbor's townhouse. While I was considering my options, two more Brothers were running toward us, I thought "Well, now I'm either dead or saved" Luckily, they grabbed their homeboy and pulled him back to their corner. I had a couple other showdowns with young black males, in every case, they knew where I lived.It cost me $100,000. to get out of that place.

When I used to go shooting I used a .22 because the ammo was so cheap. My buddy's sexy 9MM was so expensive to shoot, an afternoon of snorting coke would have been cheaper! I actually bought an pellet airgun from Walmart w/ scope for under $25, but it was pretty accurate for a toy.

[The Conquistador]

That chick would be hotter if she had a dong. However, a woman with a gun is still sexy!:yes::yes:

[The Conquistador]

Some asshole splatters a dog by dropping it off a bridge:

http://www.liveleak.com/item?a=view&token=f04_1258418085


This video made me want to puke.

[The Conquistador]

My buddy and I went to the range to test fire his new Springfield 1911.:eek:

The first picture is of the police qualification target at 25 feet.

The second is me posing with his Springfield. :)

[Rachel]

Next week I'll be defending the tree stand against any marauding bucks

[The Conquistador]

Next week I'll be defending the tree stand against any marauding bucks

Don't forget to post some pics! :)

[DSL]

Well i just picked up my new revolver today its the new Taurus .45/410 Revolver it is chambered both for the .45 cal long colt and the 410
shotgun shell! my gun is like the one in the pic. but mine is 3" Matte Stainless 2 1/2" Chamber Crimson Trace Grip 5 shots. i fired it at the range today
and it was awesome hardly any kick, i fired it point blank about 5 feet away into a watermelon 2 shots they was nothing left!. at the price of $425
i will be using this gun as my every day carrying gun i like this gun because of the shotgun shells can be fired out of it.

[jimnaseum]

i will be using this gun as my every day carrying gun.

Try not to pull a "Plaxico Burress" with that cannon!

My buddy had an old Army .45 that had been bored out to fit a 12 gauge shotgun shell, it had been machined to lever open and eject the spent casing. It came from Nam and had both US and Chinese serial numbers on it.
I almost purchased it for $100, but really, what's it good for except a few years in jail? I wish I had taken some pictures of it, though.

[DSL]

thanks for the warning i will use the 410 i haven't tried the .45 shells yet
i will pick a box this weekend and let you know the 410 was nice tho
what a mess!...

[The Conquistador]

Try not to pull a "Plaxico Burress" with that cannon!

My buddy had an old Army .45 that had been bored out to fit a 12 gauge shotgun shell, it had been machined to lever open and eject the spent casing. It came from Nam and had both US and Chinese serial numbers on it.
I almost purchased it for $100, but really, what's it good for except a few years in jail? I wish I had taken some pictures of it, though.

That's why you never tell anyone that you have that kind of shit. Loose lips sink ships. ;)

[The Conquistador]

Hey DSL! What kind of shot do you have for your Judge? (not that there is much choice) Lemme know how the .45 Colts perform; I'm thinking of getting a Judge, a Tokarev or a 1911 in January.

[DSL]

Well it was the 410 shells i used to fire into the watermelon
thst split it all over the place with 2 shots so i will be useing
the 410 XX shells then after firing i turned and said to my friend
one shot is what its worth!.


Hey DSL! What kind of shot do you have for your Judge? (not that there is much choice) Lemme know how the .45 Colts perform; I'm thinking of getting a Judge, a Tokarev or a 1911 in January.

[The Conquistador]

Well it was the 410 shells i used to fire into the watermelon
thst split it all over the place with 2 shots so i will be useing
the 410 XX shells then after firing i turned and said to my friend
one shot is what its worth!.

I meant the size of the shot. #2, #4, 000, birdshot?, things like that. Sorry about the misunderstanding.;):cool:

[DSL]

oh sorry well i use 00 buckshot ammo i picked up a couple of boxes of 45's
i will try those tomorrow.

I meant the size of the shot. #2, #4, 000, birdshot?, things like that. Sorry about the misunderstanding.;):cool:

[DSL]

Here is the taurus 410/45 video in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ORlYmHtx78

[alphanumeric]

This is correct. Situational awareness can help you avoid alot of problems before you even get into them. As the Russian proverb goes,"The bear who spots the trap cannot be caught".

The mind is the most dangerous weapon; everything else is just a tool, an extension of your body.

Agreed if there was ever a horrible example of not practicing situational awareness it was those unfortunate officers in Washington state.

[Rachel]

Don't forget to post some pics! :)

Well if I get one I'll be sure to post some pics Wish me luck!

[The Conquistador]

Good luck!


On a different note, do you bowhunt?

[Rachel]

Yes I bowhunt though I havent in a long time. Tried to get my equipment back in shape but it was too late in the season this year. Had to get a new bowquiver the arrow holders had dried up and crumbled away. I used to shoot in target and bowhunter leagues. This was the first year that crossbows were legal in new jersey. I actually got to shoot one at a sportshop. I want one! lol On another note Had my younger son out today for the opener of 6 day firearm buck season. This was his 4 th trip out and finally we some some deer. saw 5 Unfortunately I inadvertantly spooked away a 6 pointer on him :( Felt really bad. Told him ahhhh well you'll never forget this day and will be cursing me still 30 years from now lol. Like losing a big fish it was the first of many deer you will see but not get son. He took it like a trooper though.

[DSL]

I had a bow and arrow set but i sold the whole set for $50 had a 80 lb pull to it. why i sold it because i moved into a smaller apartment i use to do
bow target pratice also.
cross bows are illegal in the state of Ma. not sure why tho
i think bow and arrows are just as deadly as cross bows.

[rhythmic delivery]

i feel sorry for anyone who feels the need to carry a concealed weapon or even to have one at home. you must all be living in fear. what happened that made you think shit i need a gun with me at all times, you must live in a real shit hole area.

[jimnaseum]

i feel sorry for anyone who feels the need to carry a concealed weapon or even to have one at home. you must all be living in fear. what happened that made you think shit i need a gun with me at all times, you must live in a real shit hole area.

Every time I go to Court, I notice a Police Officer with gun on hip standing next to the Judge.

[rhythmic delivery]

Every time I go to Court, I notice a Police Officer with gun on hip standing next to the Judge.

what does that have to do with anything, are you saying thats why you feel the need to be armed 24/7? if so wow, i hate to think what you would do if you ever saw anything scary happening.

[jimnaseum]

Well, for one thing, I doubt the 2 million people in US jails would go there if you just said pretty please. Hopefully the psychos with guns are in jail now. My relatives in the country all have guns. Cars are much more deadly than guns, but I still drive one.

[DSL]

No i don't live in a shit-hole actually its a pretty quiet area and building too
i have moved here since july 15th and been quiet since other then a couple
of house breaks down the street from me and a stabbing but thats about it.
but my building does have security cams dead bolts outside entry door and
my apartment door 3 locks.

[The Conquistador]

I had a bow and arrow set but i sold the whole set for $50 had a 80 lb pull to it. why i sold it because i moved into a smaller apartment i use to do
bow target pratice also.
cross bows are illegal in the state of Ma. not sure why tho
i think bow and arrows are just as deadly as cross bows.

Oh hell yeah! Bows with at least 55 lbs. of pull and the right arrowheads can do a shitload of damamge! I remember reading somewhere that Welsh longbows had like 70+ lbs. of pull to them; some of them having 100+ lbs. of pull to them!

Remains of longbowmen found lots of deformities in them because the amount of pull overstressed their bodies, most notably, their shoulders, wrists and elbows.

[DSL]

The pull on that thing was like trying to pull a mac truck! but it was nice,
at 55 yards away i was getting dead center strikes, it was a bow i had ordered from bass pro shop a few years ago and it was ashamed to see it go!...

Oh hell yeah! Bows with at least 55 lbs. of pull and the right arrowheads can do a shitload of damamge! I remember reading somewhere that Welsh longbows had like 70+ lbs. of pull to them; some of them having 100+ lbs. of pull to them!

Remains of longbowmen found lots of deformities in them because the amount of pull overstressed their bodies, most notably, their shoulders, wrists and elbows.

[The Conquistador]

I took archery as a kid. Even though I sucked, it was still fun. :)

[mix3r]

I fight professionally so if theres anything you guys need to know about un-armed combat feel free to send me a private message. I'll post more tomorrow for you guys cause I'm still limited to that whole 5 post thing for now but hey, If anyone has any questions feel free to ask and I'll try my hardest to help

[kilich321]

thats what we need everyone with guns.... what the hell.. selfdefense? forget about all that high kicking 1 punch knock out rubbish, unless you practice it nearly daily, your just gonna get yourself in trouble (and a black belt means you can only kick arse in your club- some clubs hand out black belts just if you can afford the price). if you really need some lessons then try krav maga, but you still need to practice, power doesnt just happen no matter how many weights you lift. need speed and technique, plus knowing where to strike. best bet is to take your heels off throw it at them run and dial the police on your mobile then run to a place with the most people.. if you can get pepper spray, THEN RUN.. be aware of your surrondings, dont venture into situations (when alone) where you maybe vunerable.. is not a perfect world, be aware of where your walking. dont think cure think prevention..
blah blah blah..
finger nails in the eyes (hard, not a little poke), real hard kick to the bollocks (following through), punch to the throat (again hard, if you have no training dont pressume you can hit like tyson, because you cant..)
the eyes and throat , as you know are sensetive dont be striking to the just cause they called you ugly, life threatening situation- then leave no doubt, strike hard, with conviction, THEN RUN.
sorry but cars are more dangerouse then guns.. only because they are more available. last i heard it wasnt cars being used in wars (unless they were getting blown up, it was guns). bank robbers dont use cars to hold up banks, the SAS dont rescue hostages using a nissan (unless its a jean claude vann dame film!!)..

[aw9725]

Saw some of this go down as I was on the way home Friday. I shop at this Wal-Mart occasionally. At night... I like it 'cause it isn't ever crowded. LOL!

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/22379097/detail.html

[The Conquistador]

Saw some of this go down as I was on the way home Friday. I shop at this Wal-Mart occasionally. At night... I like it 'cause it isn't ever crowded. LOL!

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/22379097/detail.html

You saw that happen?

[aw9725]

I believe it had just happened. I had to pull over for like six or seven IMPD cars, an ambulance and fire truck. They all turned into the Wal-Mart parking lot and by the time I got there everything was blocked off.

There was also a local news van and a wrecker picking up what must have been the victim's car. They had "taped off" the area around the car and there must have been 12-15 police in the area.

Anyway, going shopping was out--so I headed home. I knew something major happened but thought it was a drug bust or something. When I got home I checked the local news web page and learned about the shooting.

[The Conquistador]

I bet you're glad that you have your kubaton huh?

[nino198610]

Hi there.

The problem with guns and those who carry them is, that first and foremost, shooting a target is very easy, shooting another human beeing is very hard, even shooting an animal is hard the first time when hunting.

If you are carying a gun, if you pull it out you have to be ready to use it, because most of the slime you will have to pull it out on know that a "normal" person will find it VERY hard to shoot someone.

Which brings me to the second thing, if you pull your gun and you back down you place yourself at even greater risk of getting hurt, and even beeing taken down and shot with your OWN gun.

And third it takes 2 of 3 things to shoot someone (for the first time anyway):

- Alot of stupidity, and disregard for human life.

- Alot of fear for your life and hatred of your opponent.

- And the ability to override your sence of wrong when you are about to squeeze the trigger.

It takes a realy disgusting person to kill someone for the only reason of wanting others to fear him, and such a person would deserve to be killed himself to prothect others from him, but doing so would place you in the same path as he was.

And killing someone is only the begining, you HAVE to live with it for the rest of your life, that and the fact that if he was part of a gang, the others will likely come after you, and then you have to kill them or they kill you, you have to remember that while they ARE cowards, they have been embolden by being part of the gang and the "safety in numbers" it generates, so they WILL come after you.

And the cops aren't much help either, they will treat you as a suspect, and even if they know that you acted in self defence, they cannot do anything to help because of A) They are afraid of the gangs, and B) They are out gunned by the gangs And C) The law is too soft and criminals are not rehabilitated, and the death penalty is alnost never envoqued, and when it is they get stay of execution, after stay of execution, which there should only be 1 or 2 permited afterwards, they would be dis-regarded.

So where are those super heroes when you need them?

JohnDowe.
quoto al 100%

[aw9725]

I bet you're glad that you have your kubaton huh?

Never leave home without it! :lol: Seriously, I typically carry my .40 with me when I shop there late at night. I am more afraid of coming out of the store only to find my car stolen! :(

[ila]

Never leave home without it! :lol: Seriously, I typically carry my .40 with me when I shop there late at night. I am more afraid of coming out of the store only to find my car stolen! :(

I must live in paradise compared to your city, aw. I always leave my car unlocked when I go into any of the stores or shopping malls around here. I've never had anything stolen from it nor have I ever had my car stolen or damaged. I even leave my car unlocked when it's parked in my driveway. I don't drive an old clunker either.

[aw9725]

ila and all my friends on this forum,

Sometimes I think it’s just the United States that is more violent. I have always lived in fairly affluent neighborhoods outside of big cities (Detroit, New York, and Indianapolis) but there has always been present the threat of robbery, burglary, or murder.

That particular Wal-Mart is only about five miles from where I live. Currently I live in a very nice “Townhome” complex whose residents are mostly upscale professional types and boasts a couple of Indianapolis “Colts” among its members. To the West are the suburbs of Brownsburg and Avon where I lived when I was in high-school and all the time I was married. Avon, in particular, has a “meth” problem--we experienced a rash of burglaries in our own neighborhood ($500K and up homes) while I was married. Our house was a 6000 sq ft “McMansion.” Not exactly the slums.

To the East on 86th street is the “Keystone Crossing” Fashion Mall. Very upscale. The biggest danger there is you might be run over by a Hummer or hit by a speeding Porsche! If you head North, you will run into Hamilton county which features $1M+ homes. Don’t know who all lives in them. Mostly CEO’s, Colts and Pacers, doctors, attorneys, etc. Larry Bird has a 12,000 sq ft home up there somewhere. Don’t hear about a lot of crime up that way! :lol:

South of me is the “Lafayette Square” area. Once a beautiful mall and place to hangout. The gym where I worked as a trainer in high-school and college was there and is no more. That entire area has since declined and the mall has mostly shutdown. It is a sad ghost town. I drive by it every day on I-65 and am glad I don’t have to stop at a light or have a flat! One of my nursing “colleagues” husband had his new truck “carjacked” at gunpoint while he was at the McDonalds there last year. Another had his car broken into. The last time I shopped there was about five years ago with my “ex.” We made jokes about getting mugged!

My campus is located “in the city” and we have had our share of “incidents.” A man was murdered on the golf course across from our campus, a Butler University policeman was shot and killed a couple of years ago--all Indianapolis schools were placed under “lockdown” and we were alerted since we are close to them. A public park just down the street used to be one of the city’s major sites for drug deals. A few students have had cars damaged or been assaulted. There was also for a time, a department store that was converted into a “Country & Western” bar complete with mechanical bull. The surrounding community is predominately African-American. FAIL! The city finally got smart and took its liquor license away after several people had been injured in fights or killed. We now have our own University police that carry guns and routinely patrol the neighborhood. I think the area is safer now than it was. I don’t worry too much myself but I don’t usually stop ‘till I get home. I do sometimes play golf on that course. But I am such a terrible golfer that I am usually the most dangerous thing on the course! ;)

Downtown, our biggest attraction is the “Circle Center” mall. Very nice but the parking garages are patrolled only by unarmed “mall cops” and have been the scene of several robberies and assaults. My “ex” and I had an “incident” there that I wrote about in an earlier post. I was there just last December with my new ladyfriend and didn’t have any problems however. Long before my family moved down here, there was a series of “bombings” in Speedway (near the 500 track) and also a gruesome (and still unsolved) murder of several young people. They were called the “Burger Chef” murders (“Google” it!). It’s still there but it is a “Payday Loan” place now or something. Even the area around the famous “Motor Speedway” is bad!

I wish I had an answer. There seems to be a definite correlation between economic decline and rate of crime. For myself, I know I don’t really feel in danger most of the time but I wouldn’t dream of leaving my car unlocked. And when I go downtown, if I am not “carrying,” I am at least very “aware” of my surroundings and avoid dark areas, elevators, etc. If I’m with a date, I’m even more careful! Just after the semester let out, several of my colleagues and I met for drinks. Somehow, we ended up on this topic of “crime” and “self defense.” We all discussed what we would do and how one might “avoid” bad situations in the first place. I shared how I approach this problem. They all burst out laughing at the idea of anyone picking a fight with me or trying to rob me. I guess I don’t look like an “easy” target! :lol: They also know about my background in martial arts and how much I lift. But still, I don’t take anything for granted--you never know what you might run into, how strong your opponent is or how many there might be, or if they are on “PCP” or something, or if they are armed. And if you do seriously hurt or kill someone, you are going to have to show it was unavoidable and in self-defense. I don’t care what anyone “says”--you most likely WILL be treated as a suspect. And that gun better be legal!!! The book I mentioned in an earlier post: “In the Gravest Extreme.” Read it.

Months ago, I started this thread in hope that others here would be encouraged to take a stand against violence by learning how to defend themselves. The transgender community seems to be a prime target for acts of violence. Singled out simply because of who they are. And often smaller or weaker than their attacker. Plus, the violence seems to be at an “excessive” level--the attackers don’t just want to hurt their transsexual victim--they want to kill. The more I learn about such incidents, the more I realize that these “hate” crimes have a more sinister motivation than most types of crime. So, I was advocating learning “self defense” from many perspectives--including “self awareness”--and yes, carrying a firearm--if it is legal to do so in your area, and you are trained in its use. I was glad to see that there were others on here who felt similarly and also worked out, practiced martial-arts, carried knives, pepper spray, and even guns. However not everybody is mentally prepared to take aggressive action or to go so far as to hurt or kill an attacker. My intent was to get people who maybe felt helpless and scared to start thinking that it’s OK to defend yourself--you don't need to live in fear. There are many martial arts you can learn, many weapons to carry. And I don't want this to become another "debate" about calibers or "styles." It can all be effective!

This is turning out to be a long post so I should wind it down. I’m not sure about the “socioeconomic” reasons for violent crime or the decline of our cities (I have read a lot about it and have my own theories). Nor will I ever understand fully the mind of the “hater” that attacks someone just because they are “different” (race, gender, nationality, gay, strait, bi, trans, whatever…) or the mind of a killer like “BTK” or Ted Bundy, or Jeffery Dahmer, etc. Finally, I’m not going to debate “gun ownership” with anyone (I respect your views) or get into a “pissing contest” with anyone (after all, I've learned everyone here packs a .50 "Desert Eagle" and knows Krav Maga), or talk about “fear or respect” anymore. If you are really interested in learning a martial art, or getting in better shape, or learning to shoot, I would be glad to give you some advice. I know a lot about it. And I’m really a nice guy! Trust me. Just one who figured out a long time ago when he was a skinny little kid in Detroit the best way to be safe was to be strong--and well prepared.

Peace,

Andy :respect: :cool:

[aw9725]

Indianapolis is indeed a dangerous city. :( Since my last post (only 3 days ago!) we have had at least two more homicides. Also our university police issued a warning that there have been several vehicle thefts on our campus this past week.

One thing that keeps our crime stats "looking better than they really are" is the inclusion of the wealthy suburbs such as Carmel and Fishers just to the North.

Here is an interesting blog on Indianapolis crime:

http://indianapolistimesblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/ballard-misleds-spins-on-crime-stats.html

[indyzzzz]

I guess that MMA class I was thinking about taking is a no-go huh ?:p

[The Conquistador]

I just bought an M7 bayonet for an M16/M4/AR-15 style rifle. Pics to come!

[The Conquistador]

Just picked up my Glock 17 today! Pics to come!

[The Conquistador]

My Glock and my bayonet! :) Yay!

[tslust]

My Glock and my bayonet! :) Yay!

great pics:inlove:

[smc]

Far be it from me to comment on the employment of firearms or sharp objects for self-defense by any member of this site, but personally I have succeeded rather well over the years using this:

[The Conquistador]

Far be it from me to comment on the employment of firearms or sharp objects for self-defense by any member of this site, but personally I have succeeded rather well over the years using this:

There is always that one time where your dome is not enough. I am just prepared for that time when I may need to use both. :)

[The Conquistador]

great pics:inlove:

Thanks alot! :hug: