Ungendering and a Lack of Respect

[Interesting]

so, how have i exactly offended some members on here? so i may clarify my statements.

Thanks.

[tslust]

Originally Posted by Interesting

At least i wrote down semi-coherent thoughts in my quoted post, why can't you?

Umm actually I think I expressed my thoughts rather well.

[smc]

Originally Posted by Interesting

so, how have i exactly offended some members on here? so i may clarify my statements.

Thanks.

You came on here and admittedly did not read the entire thread, but then presumed to lecture the Forum on gender issues. The point of our militant stand against ungendering is that the individual gets to make a self-determination of gender. You are welcome to an opinion, but not to tell others what they are.

Then you insulted by inference with your comment about coherence or the lack thereof in posts.

And in another thread, you were provocative in a way that caught the moderators' attention. I think others can simply look up those posts and draw their own conclusions.

Now, rather than acknowledge what you have done, you call upon others to post additionally so you can clarify. I suggest you take read everything again and see what you can come up with on your own.

[smc]

Originally Posted by smc

... And in another thread, you were provocative in a way that caught the moderators' attention. I think others can simply look up those posts and draw their own conclusions. ...

The other thread is "only shemales?" ... where I think, Interesting, you might want to revisit your smug, provocative posts in the interest of a harmonious future as a member of this site.

[Melissa Pink]

Originally Posted by smc

Melissa, I think you might have just stumbled upon a business opportunity ... perhaps not a get-rich-quick scheme, but certainly something that might bring in a few bucks. I am sure I am not the only person here who eschews buying pay-per-view boxing and wrestling matches on cable television but might consider tuning in to watch a real bully/hater get his ass kicked by you!

SMC,
Thanks for the comment. Bully versus Transcougar on cable? You might have something there! I might have to bring my streeting fighting techniques from the alley's and parking lots outside night clubs to cable t.v. Is Jerry Springer still on t.v.? I might have to call his producer. If so I'll have to wear my tank top that says "Fight me an you fight the whole trailer park!" while wearing my tighest and most provacative Daisy Dukes!

Melissa Pink
Transcougar and Cum Slut

[darklord666]

Whether a by God's hands or the surgeons...women of the world are deserving of respect. I alway respect a persons right to 'self identify'.

[CCC]

Reading this thread makes me think that most posters and mods are politicians in thier other life. Could someone--anyone that really knows--come up with a definition for each of the approved and dissapproved terms that TS-trans whatever call themselves. I find that noone seems to agree on most of these definitions so how in hell is someone supposed to wade through this mire ?

I mean people can't even agree that "pre-op" is always a person that still has a dick. After all they are not "pre-op" unless they intend to cut it off. Well then what do you call it?

[JodieTs]

Seems reasonable a point on a trans porn forum.
Though you will be unlikely to get everyone to agree on set terms
nor on what those terms mean.
Maybe everyone chilling out a bit helps.
It's really no big deal, unless offence was intended.

Non-op
Pre-op
Post-op are self explanatory for here and refer to the genitalia state and possible intent in the first two instances.
{If anyone really needs to know}
But on a trans porn site, not unreasonable.
Though even here on TLB, most of the time, it's irrelevant unless giving a specific context to a post.

[JodieTs]

Everywhere else, asking strangers about their genitalia
is rather wrong and marginalises us.
In real-life, the term- woman, will do just fine.



or if you are the trans-flavoured person going round telling folk about your own genitals
well you are just a freekoid weirdo!

[smc]

Originally Posted by CCC

Reading this thread makes me think that most posters and mods are politicians in thier other life. Could someone--anyone that really knows--come up with a definition for each of the approved and dissapproved terms that TS-trans whatever call themselves. I find that noone seems to agree on most of these definitions so how in hell is someone supposed to wade through this mire ?

I mean people can't even agree that "pre-op" is always a person that still has a dick. After all they are not "pre-op" unless they intend to cut it off. Well then what do you call it?

I am not a politician in another life. My posts on this issue are consistent. The issue of respect is to honor the SELF-IDENTIFICATION of the person. Period. How could that possibly be confusing?

[stephanie4life]

I so hate it that m girlfriend and bio female friends treat me like some novelty, the. "Aww you're so pretty" thing really kinda gets on my nerves. I'm doing this because this is who I am. I'm not somebody that's trying to entertain you or be somekind of barbie doll for you to play with. Ugh, can we get some respect please??! Stephanie

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by stephanie4life

I so hate it that m girlfriend and bio female friends treat me like some novelty, the. "Aww you're so pretty" thing really kinda gets on my nerves. I'm doing this because this is who I am. I'm not somebody that's trying to entertain you or be somekind of barbie doll for you to play with. Ugh, can we get some respect please??!

We'll be the judge of that.
Citation required in the form of a face pic, please.
'Nudy pics' also welcome....

[randolph]

Originally Posted by JodieTs

We'll be the judge of that.
Citation required in the form of a face pic, please.
'Nudy pics' also welcome....

Agreed -- less whining please.

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by stephanie4life

I so hate it that m girlfriend and bio female friends treat me like some novelty, the. "Aww you're so pretty" thing really kinda gets on my nerves. I'm doing this because this is who I am. I'm not somebody that's trying to entertain you or be somekind of barbie doll for you to play with. Ugh, can we get some respect please??! Stephanie

You still have friends! This is not hate or disrespect.
Disrespect is when you are asked by the manager to shop in another store. Disrespect is when you learn you were charged extra for a car repair because you are you. Disrespect is when you learn every pie at the bake sale was sold,,,,except yours. Disrespect is when you are first to be seated in the company cafeterior and you eat alone.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by franalexes

You still have friends! This is not hate or disrespect.
Disrespect is when you are asked by the manager to shop in another store. Disrespect is when you learn you were charged extra for a car repair because you are you. Disrespect is when you learn every pie at the bake sale was sold,,,,except yours. Disrespect is when you are first to be seated in the company cafeterior and you eat alone.

This seems more like being shunned or rejected which is even more painful than disrespect. So sad and so cruel

[stephanie4life]

Well... thanx for the warm welcome. I see whats up with the people on this site. Not for me thanx I believe ill move on

[JodieTs]

Don't go!
It really is a nice and friendly place
and you don't need to put any nudy pics up
I was only teasing!

[MayDay]

Originally Posted by stephanie4life

Well... thanx for the warm welcome. I see whats up with the people on this site. Not for me thanx I believe ill move on

I'm glad you decided to stick around!

[Melissa Pink]

Originally Posted by stephanie4life

Well... thanx for the warm welcome. I see whats up with the people on this site. Not for me thanx I believe ill move on

I hope that you'll remain an active member of this forum! We Southern t-girls need to stick together!

T.G.R.I.T.S. (Transgendered Girls Raised In The South)

[Slavetoebony]

This debate goes on and on. I believe it can be hard to define a person's gender or sexuality if we don't know how this person defines him/herself. I don't think anybody wants to offend. But let's be honest, how on earth are we able to define a person if all we have to judge a person by are a couple of re-cycled pics from a professional adult site and a few diverse comments added by other viewers?

[loziver]

I think the trans genders have anatomic problem ,my be from hormones problem.
I remember that when I was child i Felt like girl .when I become man ,I like to get fuck by trans women.I think i have problem .I had never get fucked before.
Thank you

[tslust]

Ya, I've been away for a little while, so I missed this.

Originally Posted by loziver

I think the trans genders have anatomic problem ,my be from hormones problem.
I remember that when I was child i Felt like girl .when I become man ,I like to get fuck by trans women.I think i have problem .I had never get fucked before.
Thank you

Ummm, I think your problem has more to do with grammer.

[the_bo]

I read through this whole thread and found the video of Calpernia Addams, that Jodie posted to be both funny and informative!
To be honest I have never heard of Calpernia Addams before but I have to say she has a very sexy face!

[aussiepride]

Originally Posted by Melissa Pink

SMC,
Thanks for the comment. Bully versus Transcougar on cable? You might have something there! I might have to bring my streeting fighting techniques from the alley's and parking lots outside night clubs to cable t.v. Is Jerry Springer still on t.v.? I might have to call his producer. If so I'll have to wear my tank top that says "Fight me an you fight the whole trailer park!" while wearing my tighest and most provacative Daisy Dukes!

Melissa Pink
Transcougar and Cum Slut

There is a show like this on cable tv at the moment. It's a us show, but pits a bully against a professional cage fighter (ulimate fighter). They have like 3 rounds and if the bully wins or lasts like 3 rounds they win $10k.

Maybe petition the producers to let a ts do the ass kicking eh. There is that thai boxing champ that is a ts as well.

Originally Posted by selasor

TransLadyboy. LadyBOY? If anybody is sincere about ungendering, they may want to start with the name of the website.

Its just the line in the sand that this site has made regarding labels.
There are plenty of other sites out there that don't restrict labeling, maybe have a look at them. Some of the sites that chat about especially thai and philo ts are so degrading makes even me cringe. All comes down to personal choice.

[littletwink]

Originally Posted by ila

Recently there have been some comments on here which ungender the transwomen of the world. This is not something new on here, but there have never been as many comments at one time as there has been in the last week.

By ungendering I mean making statements that ciswomen are "real women" and by inference that transwomen aren't real. As transwomen are real women then one is taking away transwomen's gender by inferring that they are not real women. Still other statements have referred to ciswomen as women and females whereas in the same post transwomen have been referred as tgirls. This is just another way to ungender transwomen by inferring that transwomen are neither women nor female. The men on here claim to love/admire/want transwomen and yet statements that ungender transwomen show a great lack of respect.

I am sure that some members have made these statements without realizing how hurtful it can be. There are still others that have made such statements knowing full well what the impact is.

I would like to remind the men here to show more respect to all transwomen. Please do not refer to ciswomen as the only real women. Remember that transwomen are real women and they are female.

To put this in perspective I would ask the men to think of how they would feel if they were referred to as she or her or any other feminine term. If you are offended or feel uncomfortable or even pissed off then you are on the path to realizing how a transwoman feels when she is ungendered.

To get a better perspective on this subject I encourage you to click on the link below. It will take you to the thread Real Girls which was started by Bionca.

http://forum.transladyboy.com/showthread.php?t=3444

When someone defines him or herself as one gender or the other, then I agree they have a right to consider themselves whatever they feel they are. I don't necessarily think that creates an obligation for anyone else to recognize a person's belief.

What makes no sense to me is this notion some put forward that a person must choose male or female and can be only one or the other. Speaking only for myself, I know that I am a male, but I also know that on some days I am very much a female, even though my physiology might not say so. Even if I derive some benefit in my mind from the labels, I do not NEED them to define who I am.

[smc]

Originally Posted by littletwink

When someone defines him or herself as one gender or the other, then I agree they have a right to consider themselves whatever they feel they are. I don't necessarily think that creates an obligation for anyone else to recognize a person's belief. ...

I could not disagree more with the statement above that I have quoted and put in bold. The right to self-determination of gender is absolutely meaningless unless we are obligated to acknowledge that the determination is iron-clad. Were I to use the word "belief" to describe to any of my trans friends their self-determination of their own gender, I would expect to be kicked in the balls -- deservedly -- as their last act before dropping me as a friend.

[ila]

Originally Posted by smc

I could not disagree more with the statement above that I have quoted and put in bold. The right to self-determination of gender is absolutely meaningless unless we are obligated to acknowledge that the determination is iron-clad. Were I to use the word "belief" to describe to any of my trans friends their self-determination of their own gender, I would expect to be kicked in the balls -- deservedly -- as their last act before dropping me as a friend.

My thoughts exactly. I couldn't have said it better.

[littletwink]

Originally Posted by smc

I could not disagree more with the statement above that I have quoted and put in bold. The right to self-determination of gender is absolutely meaningless unless we are obligated to acknowledge that the determination is iron-clad. Were I to use the word "belief" to describe to any of my trans friends their self-determination of their own gender, I would expect to be kicked in the balls -- deservedly -- as their last act before dropping me as a friend.

An individual's right to self-determination is not in any way infringed upon by another individual choosing to see things differently.

They can say "I will not respond to comments seeking to strip me of MY self-determined gender", but they cannot prohibit a person from thinking whatever it is they want to.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you're saying that there are only 2 distinct genders and I could not disagree more with the assertion that everyone fits into 1 of only 2 possible boxes.

[smc]

Originally Posted by littletwink

An individual's right to self-determination is not in any way infringed upon by another individual choosing to see things differently.

What you state with such certainty in the quote above belies a complete lack of understanding of what it means to have "rights." A person's right to something is meaningless without actuation of that right. Further, a right is an absolute; otherwise, it is also meaningless.

If you make it okay for someone to "see things differently" in that context, you are taking away the right.

Imagine if all the anti-discrimination laws that grew out of the civil rights movement in the United States were not enforced simply because the person who denied a black man entry into his restaurant said to that man, "Sure, the law says I can't deny any person the the right to eat here, but I don't consider blacks to be people, so I don't have to serve you. Sorry, but I just see things differently."

You may laugh at my analogy, but it is precisely the basis upon which blacks in the United States were denied rights for a very, very long time.

Originally Posted by littletwink

They can say "I will not respond to comments seeking to strip me of MY self-determined gender", but they cannot prohibit a person from thinking whatever it is they want to.

Now, let's extend your logic further with the analogy. As I understand it, the black man denied entry to the restaurant should simply not respond? After all, the restaurant owner, by your account, has an equal right to disbelieve that blacks are people.

Originally Posted by littletwink

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you're saying that there are only 2 distinct genders and I could not disagree more with the assertion that everyone fits into 1 of only 2 possible boxes.

I said absolutely nothing about how many distinct genders there are in my response. Your last statement is completely irrelevant to my point.

[littletwink]

Originally Posted by smc

What you state with such certainty in the quote above belies a complete lack of understanding of what it means to have "rights." A person's right to something is meaningless without actuation of that right. Further, a right is an absolute; otherwise, it is also meaningless.

If you make it okay for someone to "see things differently" in that context, you are taking away the right.

Imagine if all the anti-discrimination laws that grew out of the civil rights movement in the United States were not enforced simply because the person who denied a black man entry into his restaurant said to that man, "Sure, the law says I can't deny any person the the right to eat here, but I don't consider blacks to be people, so I don't have to serve you. Sorry, but I just see things differently."

You may laugh at my analogy, but it is precisely the basis upon which blacks in the United States were denied rights for a very, very long time.

Now, let's extend your logic further with the analogy. As I understand it, the black man denied entry to the restaurant should simply not respond? After all, the restaurant owner, by your account, has an equal right to disbelieve that blacks are people.

I'm not comfortable with the idea of a person or group telling individuals what they must think or believe. Behavior and actions are separate from thoughts and beliefs, though. Are behaviors and actions usually predicated upon beliefs? Certainly, but while behaviors and actions can be mandated and enforced legally, thoughts and beliefs cannot.

In the case of your shopkeeper, while he may be required to accept black customers, he still has the right to view those customers as non-persons.

You wish to mandate certain language when it comes to discussing the TG community, but language alone is not a guarantee or even a requisite for understanding and understanding is not a guarantee of societal acceptance. As a member of that community myself - albeit part-time, by some definitions - I am not bothered by another person's refusal of my self-identification.

You are saying that the denial of one's gender identity by another is wrong and is offensive and in many cases, that is probably a fair interpretation. However, not every TG individual is offended and I personally do not wish to be placed in that box, nor do I think I should be chastised for my reluctance to conform.

Again, I'm ok with not being recognized as a man or woman (as the case may be!) and several of my TG friends are very much the same. Just because we may be in the minority does not mean we shouldn't be allowed to think or feel this way.

By the same token, I will not demand that a non-TG person acknowledge my gender as a function of acknowledging my personhood. I am not my gender. My depth as a person goes much deeper than that and I feel that getting hung up on my transgenderism would actually cheapen my value as a person.

Other TG persons will feel completely differently - their gender identity and acknowledgment of same is absolutely vital to their everyday existence - and I fully respect their right to feel that way.

[smc]

Originally Posted by littletwink

I'm not comfortable with the idea of a person or group telling individuals what they must think or believe. Behavior and actions are separate from thoughts and beliefs, though. Are behaviors and actions usually predicated upon beliefs? Certainly, but while behaviors and actions can be mandated and enforced legally, thoughts and beliefs cannot.

In the case of your shopkeeper, while he may be required to accept black customers, he still has the right to view those customers as non-persons.

You wish to mandate certain language when it comes to discussing the TG community, but language alone is not a guarantee or even a requisite for understanding and understanding is not a guarantee of societal acceptance. As a member of that community myself - albeit part-time, by some definitions - I am not bothered by another person's refusal of my self-identification.

You are saying that the denial of one's gender identity by another is wrong and is offensive and in many cases, that is probably a fair interpretation. However, not every TG individual is offended and I personally do not wish to be placed in that box, nor do I think I should be chastised for my reluctance to conform.

Again, I'm ok with not being recognized as a man or woman (as the case may be!) and several of my TG friends are very much the same. Just because we may be in the minority does not mean we shouldn't be allowed to think or feel this way.

By the same token, I will not demand that a non-TG person acknowledge my gender as a function of acknowledging my personhood. I am not my gender. My depth as a person goes much deeper than that and I feel that getting hung up on my transgenderism would actually cheapen my value as a person.

Other TG persons will feel completely differently - their gender identity and acknowledgment of same is absolutely vital to their everyday existence - and I fully respect their right to feel that way.

What is most notable about your latest response is how you have sought to shift the terrain. Earlier, you wrote:

Originally Posted by littletwink

An individual's right to self-determination is not in any way infringed upon by another individual choosing to see things differently.

When you take up my shopkeeper example, you write that the shopkeeper has a right to view black customers as non-persons, but may still be required to accept black customers.

What good is the shopkeeper's "right" to his belief if it cannot be actuated? Does it transcend the right of the black person to enter his shop? When a dispute erupts, which right should be defended by law? The right of conscience or the right of access?

Rights of conscience are tricky things. They are used by people to deny the obvious truth (blacks are, indeed, persons) and justify the denial of reasonable rights to others for all sorts of reasons.

You write regarding language, and of course you are correct that "language alone is not a guarantee ... for understanding." But you are wrong that language is not a requisite for understanding.

Most important, you write that you are "not bothered by another person's refusal of my self-identification." I suspect that you have not had your rights infringed in the manner of the black person in my example. I would not pretend to know anything about you specifically, but in my experience, those who have never truly felt the lash of outright discrimination are the one's who can most readily cede the pseudo-"right of conscience" to those who wield the lash.

[littletwink]

Originally Posted by smc

What is most notable about your latest response is how you have sought to shift the terrain. Earlier, you wrote:

When you take up my shopkeeper example, you write that the shopkeeper has a right to view black customers as non-persons, but may still be required to accept black customers.

What good is the shopkeeper's "right" to his belief if it cannot be actuated? Does it transcend the right of the black person to enter his shop? When a dispute erupts, which right should be defended by law? The right of conscience or the right of access?

Rights of conscience are tricky things. They are used by people to deny the obvious truth (blacks are, indeed, persons) and justify the denial of reasonable rights to others for all sorts of reasons.

You write regarding language, and of course you are correct that "language alone is not a guarantee ... for understanding." But you are wrong that language is not a requisite for understanding.

Most important, you write that you are "not bothered by another person's refusal of my self-identification." I suspect that you have not had your rights infringed in the manner of the black person in my example. I would not pretend to know anything about you specifically, but in my experience, those who have never truly felt the lash of outright discrimination are the one's who can most readily cede the pseudo-"right of conscience" to those who wield the lash.

I cannot possibly know what it was like to live in those times. No, I have never been told "we don't serve your kind here", and thankfully, I've never been the victim of a violent crime. Sure, I got beaten up a few times when I was younger and won a few fights, too, but I wouldn't consider those incidents criminal, even if I was sometimes teased for being 'different'.

I've been called names (who hasn't?) and teased behind my back, but no, I have never been called "queer" by someone who had something I wanted like a job or service. I'm not saying I want to experience that treatment either, but being called certain names doesn't bother me like it does many others, because to my knowledge, I've only ever been called those names by idiots. If others chose to discriminate against me on less trivial matters, I was never aware of it.

With regards to my prior statement, I appreciate your further explanation, but I don't think any modification is in order. What I identify myself as is in no way predicated upon how another will choose to identify me. Granted, I have the good fortune of being quite secure in both my manhood and my womanhood separately, plus I am also very happy with my androgyny, but I am the only one who determines how I will identify myself.

If others choose not to accept my identification, it's their right to make that choice. I don't want to make the argument too circular in restating too many points, but I don't WANT the power to force my personal thoughts and beliefs upon another person, nor would I ever grant anyone the power to do it to me. I may be a sub, but not even I am that submissive.

[smc]

Originally Posted by littletwink

I cannot possibly know what it was like to live in those times. No, I have never been told "we don't serve your kind here", and thankfully, I've never been the victim of a violent crime. Sure, I got beaten up a few times when I was younger and won a few fights, too, but I wouldn't consider those incidents criminal, even if I was sometimes teased for being 'different'.

I've been called names (who hasn't?) and teased behind my back, but no, I have never been called "queer" by someone who had something I wanted like a job or service. I'm not saying I want to experience that treatment either, but being called certain names doesn't bother me like it does many others, because to my knowledge, I've only ever been called those names by idiots. If others chose to discriminate against me on less trivial matters, I was never aware of it.

With regards to my prior statement, I appreciate your further explanation, but I don't think any modification is in order. What I identify myself as is in no way predicated upon how another will choose to identify me. Granted, I have the good fortune of being quite secure in both my manhood and my womanhood separately, plus I am also very happy with my androgyny, but I am the only one who determines how I will identify myself.

If others choose not to accept my identification, it's their right to make that choice. I don't want to make the argument too circular in restating too many points, but I don't WANT the power to force my personal thoughts and beliefs upon another person, nor would I ever grant anyone the power to do it to me. I may be a sub, but not even I am that submissive.

Without also making the argument "too circular in restating too many points," I would suggest that you (and, indeed, society as a whole) would be well served to consider the difference between the notion of a "right" in the abstract and the meaning of a "right" in the concrete.

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by littletwink

I'm not comfortable with the idea of a person or group telling individuals what they must think or believe. Behavior and actions are separate from thoughts and beliefs, though. Are behaviors and actions usually predicated upon beliefs? Certainly, but while behaviors and actions can be mandated and enforced legally, thoughts and beliefs cannot.
You wish to mandate certain language when it comes to discussing the TG community, but language alone is not a guarantee or even a requisite for understanding and understanding is not a guarantee of societal acceptance. As a member of that community myself - albeit part-time, by some definitions - I am not bothered by another person's refusal of my self-identification.

Originally Posted by littletwink

When someone defines him or herself as one gender or the other, then I agree they have a right to consider themselves whatever they feel they are. I don't necessarily think that creates an obligation for anyone else to recognize a person's belief.

I agree with you on the highlighted section.
It's ludicrous to expect society to control an individuals thoughts on something; like in this case the way a person feels inside about another person and their gender representation.
I think that we now split in our thoughts.

• I feel it is always appropriate for everyone in society to interact with a trans-variance person, in such a way that reflects their adopted gender. If a person appears to have male background but their attire says female, treat them as female.
• Likewise for F2M's where they may have some female 'Tells' but are clearly representing themselves as male, then treat them, as male.
• For a person who is not easy to categorise such as gender-fuck, then a polite discrete question asking them how they wish to be addressed, seems reasonable.

That would seem to be both polite,cover all bases and not require anyone to compromise their internal views.
Stay bigoted, but don't be rude and show it.

Of course anyone with strong anti-trans views will never come on TLB to read this so I'm probably preaching to the converted.

[jmshemalelover]

We do need to watch what we say and HOW we say it. Tgirls are real women and the correct term for vagina born women is genetic female. I learned that from a post operative friend of mine years ago and that the terms cut or chop is insulting as well. Gender reasignment surgery does not remove the gentelia, but in fact just reconstructs it. Nothing is removed except the testicles and the head of the penis while the rest is reconfigured into a vagina.

I know that a lot of people out there run into this misconception and before I even got involved in the community here or even at work from those who do not know better, say things like that. Then many people even say that transwomen are gay men. Then some trans girls even consider them that as well by actions. For example the same sex marrage issue is not only their political or moral belief, but some talk about it like they themselves believe that transwomen are men and to disallow it would prevent them from eventually marrying themselves. If you are a true female then you should be interested in the same sex marrage for political or personal beliefs just like many hetrosexuals do or even some religious people do and there are even some homosexuals who do not believe in it. Not because it disallows you to have a family.

Also, many should not knock a girl because she has the surgery. I hear so many say bad things about Danielle Fox going all the way like she is trash now. Then some say in general that they have no use for post ops. That is insulting! I can understand you wanting a girl to keep her penis and it is attractive as well, but we need to respect the individual. If they themselves want to go through with the surgery, than we should support them just as those who want to keep their penises. I have heard some post op females make remarks against other women who do not have the surgery as well. I have heard comments like freaks, or not really thinking like a female come out of some.

Respect is the key word! I may not like what my fellow man does, but that does not mean I am going to bully him or call him names cause he believes something I think is politically or morally wrong. He or she will get respect out of me totally.

I started out here, as one who was fascinated by the anatomy of the transgendered, but I was still always respectful toward ALL women! I am sorry that it happened. After meeting and dating some girls, I have learned that you women are nice people and feel for your hard life that you have to live. I now do like especially making new friends cause of what I have learned. I am single, to let you know, and I actually stopped looking around for my special one and have no interest in dating right now. I just like mingling with my fellow human beings and helping others. To settle down with anyone requires full commitment and if you can not give it, do not waste another individual's time. That is why so many broken hearts out there taking place and a lot of uncertain interests in many men when seeking a relationship.

Now this is only my opinion. Not saying that it is total fact, but what I feel about this.

[Supermatic]

I really don't know what to say exactly since I'm still new to this and the last thing I want to do is cause problems,but I will say this and that is society is very screwed up to the point where it continues to look down on others reguardless of race,sexuallity,sexual pref.,religion and other factors and until society can pull it's head out of there ass's and starts to accept others for who they are(Personality) then idfk really because that's just me.So an idividual has an extra part,but that's no reason to look down on the person or even put that person down.

[DgMAtrainer78]

Do most transexuals find it offensive to be refereed to as transexual? I love transexuals for being who they are. I don't see them entirely as women but as transexuals which is far better in my opinion.

[smc]

Originally Posted by DgMAtrainer78

Do most transexuals find it offensive to be refereed to as transexual? I love transexuals for being who they are. I don't see them entirely as women but as transexuals which is far better in my opinion.

Fortunately, it is not you but these women themselves who get to determine their own gender identity.

[ChrisTinaBruce]

You are trying to put everything and everyone in a box. Let go of YOUR insecurities and accept and judge people on their behavior and actions not appearance.

Chris Tina Bruce

Originally Posted by Interesting

i did not read the entire thread, but speaking to the thread's title, there's simply two genders.

Male
Female

all that falls in between are 'abnormalities' in sense that somewhere along the genetic coding and biochemical make up, an abnormality occurred that caused said gender to act out of line to the 'majority' or 'norm'.

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by DgMAtrainer78

Do most transexuals find it offensive to be refereed to as transexual? I love transexuals for being who they are. I don't see them entirely as women but as transexuals which is far better in my opinion.

It varies from person to person. and the circumstances.
Almost all want to be referred to as women as that's what we are
and it's easier for you to do so. If she wants you to call her a transsexual,
she'll tell you. (though this would be highly unlikely to occur, though the very occasional Ts women will identify as Ts rather than female)

Um, transsexual has two "s" in it.

[Tsweet]

Originally Posted by JodieTs

It varies from person to person. and the circumstances.
Almost all want to be referred to as women as that's what we are
and it's easier for you to do so. If she wants you to call her a transsexual,
she'll tell you. (though this would be highly unlikely to occur, though the very occasional Ts women will identify as Ts rather than female)

Um, transsexual has two "s" in it.

Yes I only refer to my beautiful (ts) girlfriend as a woman (as that's what she IS!) ... but occasionally she will refer to herself as a transsexual woman as she is proud of the journey she has gone through to become the gorgeous woman she is!

(Speaking of gorgeous women Jodie! Love your new avatar GREAT picture of yourself!)

[shawnx]

I did a post a few days ago and actually made a mistake of using the term real woman, it was a simple mistake and have noted not to use it anymore, at the same time, if someone does use it like i did, just simply remind them to try not to use it and not target them as a bad person like one person did with me. its a simple mistake that a lot of guys make. some tgirls dont like the term shemale. I also find it interesting that someone might find the term real woman disrespectful but yet i noticed a post with a person saying how he likes pulling a tgirls hair while fucking them in the ass , seems to me that would be more disrespectful. thanks for hearing me out.

[smc]

Originally Posted by shawnx

I did a post a few days ago and actually made a mistake of using the term real woman, it was a simple mistake and have noted not to use it anymore, at the same time, if someone does use it like i did, just simply remind them to try not to use it and not target them as a bad person like one person did with me. its a simple mistake that a lot of guys make. some tgirls dont like the term shemale. I also find it interesting that someone might find the term real woman disrespectful but yet i noticed a post with a person saying how he likes pulling a tgirls hair while fucking them in the ass , seems to me that would be more disrespectful. thanks for hearing me out.

There is a HUGE difference between the use of the term "shemale" (which is an invention of the porn industry) and the use of the term "real woman" to distinguish GGs from transwomen. In my experience with my transwomen friends, there is a HUGE difference between their reaction to the term "shemale" and their reaction to any statement that implies or states explicitly that they are less of a woman than any other woman.

Language matters. When someone ungenders, he ought to acknowledge the mistake, show his understanding of the error, and pledge to try not to do it again. What he ought not do is attack others or make excuses, because that diminishes the acknowledgment of the error and thus the importance of the acknowledgment.

[corneliusguy]

I plead ignorance, until today. Would it be ok to say Girl or G-Girl VS T-Girl/lady/woman?

[a9127]

Originally Posted by corneliusguy

I plead ignorance, until today. Would it be ok to say Girl or G-Girl VS T-Girl/lady/woman?

If for some reason there needs to be a differentiation, I use the terms “ciswoman” or “transwoman.” Otherwise I simply refer to anyone female as “woman.”

[LBL over]

I am married to a ladyboy who I love with a passion. Superior in every way that maters to any female born in a fully formed female body. She has had SRS and she corrects anybody who calls her a woman and says with pride "I'm a ladyboy" and I love that. After being with her I could never go back with a mere female born in the right body. Have we "ungendered" her? I and her think ladyboys are far more than any mere born in a female body woman can be, the journey they take to get where others are merely born makes them so much more imho?

[cgeissler]

For a time I dated a lovely ladyboy from Pattaya. She was one of the sexiest women I have ever seen. She had everything and something extra. She LOVED to be called in feminine pronouns. I LOVED to call her my girlfriend, particularly when she did particularly un-ladylike things (like pee standing up - true story!).

My most common thing to do has been to remember the end goal. If she's MTF transgender, call her a she! Blimey! It's not rocket science! If he's FTM, call him a HE! Is it so hard?

Much love to all of you who are brave enough to be true to yourselves!

[lauren180396]

Is it disrespectful to say 'trans-woman' on here? Or is it deemed offensive?
Also, what is the best term to use? I hope somebody answers my question, it would help alot. Many thanks

[ila]

Originally Posted by lauren180396

Is it disrespectful to say 'trans-woman' on here? Or is it deemed offensive?
Also, what is the best term to use? I hope somebody answers my question, it would help alot. Many thanks

No, it is not disrespectful to say transwoman. It is one of the most respectful terms I've heard although I would think that most transwomen would prefer the term woman without any qualifier.

[CCC]

Ila Could you please list out all the acceptable and the not acceptable names.

People walk around in here on egg shells.
Example: shemales yes or no the title about is "chat About Shemales"

Thanks