"Real Girls"

[Bionca]

I'm really not fond of non-trans women being called "real" girls, or for that matter trans women being referred to in the feminine with quotes around the pronouns - Like:

I really had a good time with a hot "girl" from the local tranny bar. "She" was pretty and looked like a real girl until "she" got naked.

Aside from the obvious trivializing of my identity and the stuff I had to go through and endure; it's dangerous. Seriously dangerous - Angie Zapata's murderer told the cops "I had to hit it" - Angie wasn't a woman..she wasn't even a person. To a lesser degree, I have been with at least 5 guys who at some post let me know that they were done with me because they liked "real girls". One of them minutes after he talked me (begged is probably a better term) into giving it up for him. I was in bed when he got that stupid awkward look on his face and said "wow you were really hot - but I like the real thing".

I could point out the purely physical stuff and say that they are "feminine" or "womanly" - but really, I was as much a woman before I ever laid eyes on hormones or a skirt or some eyeliner so that whole "femininity" thing doesn't really prove anything - I'd be a chick if I stopped shaving my legs and wore a suit - it's who I am not what I'm wearing.

I think the part that stinks for me (and probably most Trans* folks) is me transitioning was me being 100% authentic - ultimately honest with myself and the world. When that honesty is called dishonest it hurts.

[jimnaseum]

Jeez, Bionca, real + $5.00 = $5.00

When it comes to sex, all men are pigs, every "real" woman knows that. If you go to the trans bar I guarantee you can get fucked every night. You need to find a guy you really like. If it's real it's real. Even Librarians have sex.

You have a really good head on your shoulders but you're like a broken record with this Mr. Wrong mantra. Maybe you think you deserve more than the regular person sexually because of all the crap you've been through. Make peace with your parents and find the guy thats looking for a girl like you
-Jim Landers

[transjen]

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

[FoxySarah]

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

I am so glad I live in a country tolerant enough that the Law Enforcement actually upholds the law equally for everyone.

[fatbloke]

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

I'm so sorry to hear that Jen,it is a really sad inditement on todays socierty.It's the 21st century and attitudes are still the same as they have been for 1000's of years,regarding race,gender whatever,the human race is still a bunch of small minded,self serving bunch of c****.
I wish there was something positive that i could say,but folks is folks,they are not going to change.
Next time rip the bastards nuts off and dispose of the body,you would be better off.
Take care,ony

[BigToy4Asia]

Wow, Bionca - thanks for speaking out. Your words really had an impact on me. I believe I truly understand what you mean and how you feel. You make so much sense - I really hope you have challenged all of us on here.

Thank you.

[BigToy4Asia]

TransJen, how insecure was that creep??!! How utterly pathetic he should think he was better than you by beating the crap out of you.
Makes me feel sick to the stomach!
A pathetic, losing creep who is too weak to face up to his feelings.

As for the police, my God... We have along way to go in this world..

[cyba]

When it comes to sex, all men are pigs, every "real" woman knows that.

Inane sh*t Jim. Where on earth did you get that idea?
Ah, from the women you know.
I won't use the 'generalisation' word.
Damn. Whaddya know. I have.

[randolph]

If I was hitting on a woman in a bar, I would want to know if she was transsexual right away, not after we got into bed. If she was transexual, I would not lose interest, in fact it would excite me, I like mystery.
I would love to have an experience with a beautiful transsexual woman. Yes, I would love to love her like a woman and suck her female cock. Biologically, Its basically a very well developed clitty.

[racquel]

Originally Posted by FoxySarah

I am so glad I live in a country tolerant enough that the Law Enforcement actually upholds the law equally for everyone.

Yeah, Canada's such a utopia!

Last time I was in Windsor, Canada, it made Detroit look like a tolerant place.

Seriously, cops are all assholes. The only cop I've ever met who's actually a nice guy is my probation officer, but he's a retired cop ... I think he's just trying to make up for having been an asshole in the 90's.

A cop refusing the file a police report for you? That's nothing. Last time I got arrested he did file a report, and it was totally full of lies.

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

Jeez, Bionca, real + $5.00 = $5.00

When it comes to sex, all men are pigs, every "real" woman knows that. If you go to the trans bar I guarantee you can get fucked every night. You need to find a guy you really like. If it's real it's real. Even Librarians have sex.

You have a really good head on your shoulders but you're like a broken record with this Mr. Wrong mantra. Maybe you think you deserve more than the regular person sexually because of all the crap you've been through. Make peace with your parents and find the guy thats looking for a girl like you
-Jim Landers

It's a forum Jim. A place to rant and rave. The broken record crack sounds hurtful. As do the next 2 lines.

[jimnaseum]

Hurtful? This is High School 101.
EVERY GIRL IS GOING TO BE JUDGED
In High School, there was one #1 girl. Prom Queen, Homecoming Princess.
Great breeding, genes. The perfect wife and mother. She would go on to marry the quarterback or Mayor's son and never let him down.
And then there's #6, #25, #268. This is how guys think from prehistoric times. Being a woman is no picnic.
As far as cops go, they peel people off windshields in horrible traffic accidents, that's why they don't like speeders and drunks. They also go to very painful domestic violence incidents with children screwed for life because of idiot parents. All cops are big on FAMILY.
No disrespect for Bionca. I probably misunderstood her post anyway.

[PalmPilot]

Hello Bionca,

All to often myself and my fellow men open our big fat mouths and shove our feet into them simply because we are being selfish, ignorant jerks. Is it any excuse, no, and there is no excuse for it and never will be. You are a very courageous woman and a very beautiful one at that. I can't say when but one day you will find the right man for you. I can only hope that I will one day find a beautiful, courageous woman like yourself.

Sincerely
Michael

p.s. I mean it sincerely when I say you are a very beautiful woman.

[FoxySarah]

Originally Posted by racquel

Yeah, Canada's such a utopia!

Last time I was in Windsor, Canada, it made Detroit look like a tolerant place.

Seriously, cops are all assholes. The only cop I've ever met who's actually a nice guy is my probation officer, but he's a retired cop ... I think he's just trying to make up for having been an asshole in the 90's.

A cop refusing the file a police report for you? That's nothing. Last time I got arrested he did file a report, and it was totally full of lies.

Oh yes, of course, how could I forget. Every cop is an asshole. No exceptions. Silly me.

As for Windsor, I would say that's because they have thier own police force. In Canada, there are city cops, which only have jurisdiction in their own city limits, and there are the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) Which have jurisdiction anywhere that's Canadian soil. In my experiance, city police tend to have more assholes on their payroll, and the RCMP tend to be more tolerant. Either way though, I've never had any real difficulties with the police. Canada really is quite tolerant. We're one of the few countries that allow same-sex marriage, and the Canadian Forces medical plan will pay for SRS for soldiers that wish to transition. Seriously, you can't get much more tolerant than that!

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

Hurtful? This is High School 101.
EVERY GIRL IS GOING TO BE JUDGED
In High School, there was one #1 girl. Prom Queen, Homecoming Princess.
Great breeding, genes. The perfect wife and mother. She would go on to marry the quarterback or Mayor's son and never let him down.
And then there's #6, #25, #268. This is how guys think from prehistoric times. Being a woman is no picnic.
As far as cops go, they peel people off windshields in horrible traffic accidents, that's why they don't like speeders and drunks. They also go to very painful domestic violence incidents with children screwed for life because of idiot parents. All cops are big on FAMILY.
No disrespect for Bionca. I probably misunderstood her post anyway.

<-----This is what Bianca needs

[racquel]

Originally Posted by FoxySarah

the Canadian Forces medical plan will pay for SRS for soldiers that wish to transition. Seriously, you can't get much more tolerant than that!

Whoa! Maybe I should move to Canada.

Seriously, in the US cops really are totally corrupt. I have a friend who went to the police academy, and another friend who works for the highway patrol, and to hear them talk it's actually worse than you'd ever think.

Last time I got pulled over for speeding, the cop called me ma'am then noticed it said "Sex: M" on my license ... and let's just say things went downhill fast.

In the US we even have laws that you can't sue the police. If a cop runs into you, your insurance has to pay for it. I've talked to several lawyers who said they hear the most fucked up stuff all the time, and normally it would be easy to win a lawsuit for discrimination, sexual harrassment, or even assault, but if it was the police doing it they'll flat out tell you that there's no way you can win in court unless you were seriously injured by the police and went straight to the ER and filed a report.

[twistedone]

I would have filed a report anyways, against the cop. Then raised holy hell with the press and anyone else I could to embarrass the cop and the police force. There is absolutely NO justification for anyone to beat the crap out of anyone. PERIOD!!

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

This is exactly what I was trying to bring up. The idea that we are either not "real"/valid women or our intention is one of deception fuels so much emotional and physical distress and even abuse for us. Unfortunaely, so much of the sex industry that makes money off of Trans* bodies uses this same language and imagery. I don't expect porn to be anything more than a means to make money... on the other hand, are amputee fetish sites billed as "hot gimp action"? or is the tag line "He thought she had a leg until the pants came off. - Crip Deception at it's finest."

It isn't so much that guys dump me for chicks that cane give them babies, it's that these guys feel they are justified to deny my identity and/or feel like my honesty is actually deception (always after I've given up the goods).

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by Bionca

This is exactly what I was trying to bring up. The idea that we are either not "real"/valid women or our intention is one of deception fuels so much emotional and physical distress and even abuse for us.
It's that these guys feel they are justified to deny my identity and/or feel like my honesty is actually deception (always after I've given up the goods).

BIONCA:

Jen is a peach, but she has unintentionally left out from her first telling that she was making-out w/ the guy, and accepted going to his place. Drinking may have been involved. When they continued in private, he finally went into her panties, and things changed when he found a sausage and not a donut.

I agree that she should have been able to file a complaint, BTW.

Care to add a sentence or two w/ this wrinkle involved?


Piece,


TAL

[new believer]

Originally Posted by Bionca

This is exactly what I was trying to bring up. The idea that we are either not "real"/valid women or our intention is one of deception fuels so much emotional and physical distress and even abuse for us. Unfortunaely, so much of the sex industry that makes money off of Trans* bodies uses this same language and imagery. I don't expect porn to be anything more than a means to make money... on the other hand, are amputee fetish sites billed as "hot gimp action"? or is the tag line "He thought she had a leg until the pants came off. - Crip Deception at it's finest."

It isn't so much that guys dump me for chicks that cane give them babies, it's that these guys feel they are justified to deny my identity and/or feel like my honesty is actually deception (always after I've given up the goods).

1st, why do you hate being braver than the guys you date? It will be your bravery that will change the world.
Sorry about your being beaten up, been there. Only I was beaten up by five guys who did not like the attention I got from their girlfriends. I was new to the area,had long hair and enjoyed being 'cool'. No I wasn't gay nor was I a fem-boy. Just different. That that out of the way, and forgive my ignorance, But what 'title(s)' do shemales give to 1)natural born women, 2)the 'straight' community/world, & 3)....sorry, lost my train of thought. I do that at times because I think faster than I type. Anyway, people are either assholes or not. Don't ever let the world beat you down. The strength shemales display shows through everyday by merely keeping on. The conviction shown through the operations, doing the everyday chores in public, helping others with their problems while still living with your own, shows lessons the rest of the world should learn. Those,my dear lady, are only a few of the reasons why I am a new admirer to your 'world'. NB

[ila]

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Jen is a peach, but she has unintentionally left out from her first telling that she was making-out w/ the guy, and accepted going to his place. Drinking may have been involved. When they continued in private, he finally went into her panties, and things changed when he found a sausage and not a donut.

I agree that she should have been able to file a complaint, BTW.

Care to add a sentence or two w/ this wrinkle involved?

The guy may have been disappointed or even downright pissed off, however that is no reason to smack around anyone. Assault is still assault and as far as I know it is illegal to assault anyone in the U.S.

The police are there to take action against criminal acts and in Jen's case the cop should have taken action. If the cop took no action then he should have been charged under the applicable law for not doing his duty. All persons are equal under the law so it should not matter who the parties are that are involved. Police are not judges so they have no right to decide who will be afforded protection under the law.

[tslust]

Originally Posted by transjen

Happend to me awhile ago, A guy i met beat the crap outta me when he found out i wasn't a "real girl" When i tried to report it i got a rude awaking from the "real cop" when he found out i was transgendered he said it was my fault for teasing the poor guy and he had every right to smack me around and he hoped i learned my lesson and refused to file a report, Jennifer

The same thing happened to me several years back. He probably would've beaten me to death if his neighbor hadn't come out to see what all the noise was.

Originally Posted by racquel

Seriously, cops are all assholes.

I couldn't agree more.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

BIONCA:

Jen is a peach, but she has unintentionally left out from her first telling that she was making-out w/ the guy, and accepted going to his place. Drinking may have been involved. When they continued in private, he finally went into her panties, and things changed when he found a sausage and not a donut.

I agree that she should have been able to file a complaint, BTW.

Care to add a sentence or two w/ this wrinkle involved?


Piece,


TAL

Oh, so just because he was dissapointed that gives him every right to beat her. Seriously, if a guy is dissapointed with his date (whether TG or GG) after he takes her home; he should simply escort her to the door, not beat her senseless.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by tslust

Oh, so just because he was dissapointed that gives him every right to beat her. Seriously, if a guy is dissapointed with his date (whether TG or GG) after he takes her home; he should simply escort her to the door, not beat her senseless.

I did not say he had the right to beat up anybody.

I made no comment on it at all.

I left that open for Bianca to comment.

I don't believe anyone has the right to beat up anyone else for most reasons. To clarify, there are exceptions, like if your life is threatened and you have no other choice.

Please, both of you, ask B4 jumping to conclusions.


Piece,


TAL

[ila]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

I did not say he had the right to beat up anybody.

I made no comment on it at all.

I left that open for Bianca to comment.

I don't believe anyone has the right to beat up anyone else for most reasons. To clarify, there are exceptions, like if your life is threatened and you have no other choice.

Please, both of you, ask B4 jumping to conclusions.


Piece,


TAL

I didn't say that you said anyone had the right to beat up anyone else. I quoted your post as you had asked for comments and had I not quoted it there could have been confusion as to what I was referring to in my post.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by ila

I didn't say that you said anyone had the right to beat up anyone else. I quoted your post as you had asked for comments and had I not quoted it there could have been confusion as to what I was referring to in my post.

ILA:

Sorry.


TAL

[new believer]

Originally Posted by ila

I didn't say that you said anyone had the right to beat up anyone else. I quoted your post as you had asked for comments and had I not quoted it there could have been confusion as to what I was referring to in my post.

Maybe the surest way to find out if a guy really wants to get it on and not want to beat the tar out of anyone, is when he shows an interest in a shemale (ask him in a very public place,and in a joking term) what would he do if a guy wanted to swap spit with him. His expression or answer might just tell you what you need to know. A few of your friends nearby might help.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

BIONCA:

Jen is a peach, but she has unintentionally left out from her first telling that she was making-out w/ the guy, and accepted going to his place. Drinking may have been involved. When they continued in private, he finally went into her panties, and things changed when he found a sausage and not a donut.

I agree that she should have been able to file a complaint, BTW.

Care to add a sentence or two w/ this wrinkle involved?


Piece,


TAL

Here we go i met the guy at a pool hall that my friends and i stoped at to play pool, The guy took a liking to me and we started chatting he smeaned very nice and wanted to shoot a game with me and i agreed, My friend who drove me there had to leave so i said ok, The guy then offered to drive me home if i wanted to stay longer and i aggreed to finish the game, We left the pool hall got in his car and he asked where i lived and asked if i minded if he stops by his place first because he had something to attend to, So we stoped at his place and he invited me in we sat down and talked some more then he kissed me and started feeling me up I started backing off then and he got on top of me and that's when his hand reached into my panties and all hell broke loose he started smacking me and calling me a GD FAIT , I kneed him in his sack then made a run for it and ran to a 7-ELEVEN where i called the cops, When he got there i told him what happend and he then asked why the guy called me a fait when i told him everything changed he nolonger cared what happend to me. Now a few people said i should have went to the police chief and the papers, I decided against for two reasons if i filed a complaimt agianst the cop i would have then been a big target for every cop in the area and going to the papers whould have told the world i'm transgendered at the time i was 22 years old and was only living full time for 4 months so i just learned a big leason and moved on with my life Jennifer

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

BIONCA:

Jen is a peach, but she has unintentionally left out from her first telling that she was making-out w/ the guy, and accepted going to his place. Drinking may have been involved. When they continued in private, he finally went into her panties, and things changed when he found a sausage and not a donut.

I agree that she should have been able to file a complaint, BTW.

Care to add a sentence or two w/ this wrinkle involved?


Piece,


TAL

Pretending that I hadn't read Jen's reply above - no I wouldn't have added anything. The reason for the assult was the same - she was perceived by her attacker as not being a "real" woman at best, an intentional deceiver at worst. The reaction of the cop implying that he assumed she was being deceptive, thus bringing the violence on herself. This line of reasoning is caled the "gay/trans panic" defence and is quite popular because it works to get men (who have often had continued relations with trans*women) off the hook or reduced sentences for violence/murder of trans*women and gay men (see Angie Zapata and Matthew Shepherd).

I know you aren't tryng to say that violence is justified, but so often people - even other trans*folks will assume that a gal wasn't being honest about her status, denounce the violence, then say she kinda had it comming anyway. I wonder what the public's reaction would be if women started beating the snot out of men who lied about their cock size...

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by transjen

Here we go i met the guy at a pool hall that my friends and i stoped at to play pool, The guy took a liking to me and we started chatting he smeaned very nice and wanted to shoot a game with me and i agreed, My friend who drove me there had to leave so i said ok, The guy then offered to drive me home if i wanted to stay longer and i aggreed to finish the game, We left the pool hall got in his car and he asked where i lived and asked if i minded if he stops by his place first because he had something to attend to, So we stoped at his place and he invited me in we sat down and talked some more then he kissed me and started feeling me up I started backing off then and he got on top of me and that's when his hand reached into my panties and all hell broke loose he started smacking me and calling me a GD FAIT , I kneed him in his sack then made a run for it and ran to a 7-ELEVEN where i called the cops, When he got there i told him what happend and he then asked why the guy called me a fait when i told him everything changed he nolonger cared what happend to me. Now a few people said i should have went to the police chief and the papers, I decided against for two reasons if i filed a complaimt agianst the cop i would have then been a big target for every cop in the area and going to the papers whould have told the world i'm transgendered at the time i was 22 years old and was only living full time for 4 months so i just learned a big leason and moved on with my life Jennifer

JEN:

I thought you meant this other story from a week ago. Sorry, I was referring to the other story.

My first time as Jennifer was not fun, I meet a guy at a party and he didn't know i wasn't all female and he put the moves on me and stupid me i went back to his apartment where we necked for awhile and he started feeling me up but when he slid his hand up my skirt he found out i was still a male and he wasn't very happy i think you can see where this is going and he smacked me around before he up my ass, Needless to say i didn't enjoy it at all Jennifer


Piece,


TAL

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by new believer

1st, why do you hate being braver than the guys you date? It will be your bravery that will change the world.
Sorry about your being beaten up, been there. Only I was beaten up by five guys who did not like the attention I got from their girlfriends. I was new to the area,had long hair and enjoyed being 'cool'. No I wasn't gay nor was I a fem-boy. Just different. That that out of the way, and forgive my ignorance, But what 'title(s)' do shemales give to 1)natural born women, 2)the 'straight' community/world, & 3)....sorry, lost my train of thought. I do that at times because I think faster than I type. Anyway, people are either assholes or not. Don't ever let the world beat you down. The strength shemales display shows through everyday by merely keeping on. The conviction shown through the operations, doing the everyday chores in public, helping others with their problems while still living with your own, shows lessons the rest of the world should learn. Those,my dear lady, are only a few of the reasons why I am a new admirer to your 'world'. NB

I hate being braver than the guys date because *I* get to catch crap while they are hidden from view. I'm daling with being trans all day every day, the guys seem to bail at the first hint that their friends may suspect (for example). You do bring up a few good questions...

1) if a distinction needs to be made cis (non-trans) is good, "GG" for Genetic Girl works, I personally like "Natal Women".
2) "the strait world" works. Alsom lots of trans women go "stealth" and just live in the "strait world" as women, so "home" would also work.

I don't like seeming like I'm constantly down on you guys. When you take the time time to try to "get it", you become special and wonderful. So many of the guys who post here have/are at least trying to "get it" and I don't think I express anough how much I appreciate that. I wouldn't still be posting here if it wasn't the case.

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

Make peace with your parents and find the guy thats looking for a girl like you
-Jim Landers

Well, the parents are a no-go. Once I grew some boobs they made it very clear they didn't want a daughter and haven't returned any attempts to communicate. I'm living SECRETLY with my brother because he's afraid that they will freak out on him too and (for whatever reason) wants to have active grandparents for his kid. Last I heard they didn't even have any pictures of me on the wall in the house *shrug*

Also, I only look for guys looking for gals like me. I have no desire to have that type of conversation with someone - one of the reasons I still only go dancing at gay clubs, won't date guys from work, give guys who ask a fake phone number ... I have no reason to trust that some random dude who hits on me isn't going to freak out (even if he says he doesn't care).

[jimnaseum]

I'm not a woman in a man's body, but a couple years ago I did find out I have a malfunctioning pitutitary gland, which kind of puts me in the soup.
As kids, we had a pact not to let our parents know anything that would lead to doctors or drama.
I still don't understand why guys looking for girls like you would be dismissive or whatever with you, even after they've shot their load. What's not to like?
I really do appreciate your patience and understanding, I'm sure you have all the problems that life comes with as well as a few more. Some of my favorite weekends have gotten me beaten up, confused, broke, and very very tired.
Hope this Kwissmuss finds everyone a little closer to God, wherever that is......

[DL_NL]

I've often noticed that guys here- and on other internet forums as well- don't seem to care about how they treat t-girls. They're no more than objects of desire to them, why bother treating them as humans with feelings? That really annoys me.

As for Transjen: do you live in the US? If so, geez... there's a lot of work left to get your country out of the sexual Dark Ages. And judging by some people's responses I doubt if it'll ever happen.

[fatbloke]

There is one thing i have noticed while being on this site,most of the guys who post here are just here for the fact that thy like to get off over shemales,for want of a better word,there seems to be no respect,just complete lust.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Well, the parents are a no-go. Once I grew some boobs they made it very clear they didn't want a daughter and haven't returned any attempts to communicate. I'm living SECRETLY with my brother because he's afraid that they will freak out on him too and (for whatever reason) wants to have active grandparents for his kid. Last I heard they didn't even have any pictures of me on the wall in the house *shrug*

Also, I only look for guys looking for gals like me. I have no desire to have that type of conversation with someone - one of the reasons I still only go dancing at gay clubs, won't date guys from work, give guys who ask a fake phone number ... I have no reason to trust that some random dude who hits on me isn't going to freak out (even if he says he doesn't care).

Dear Bionca,
I really appreciate your comments and the comments by Fran and other Tgirls. I must admit I joined this forum to look at shemale images and feel horney. I imagined that transexuals were somehow more sexually endowed than genetic women. I had no idea that transitioning was so difficult and even dangerous, in addition to the loss of family support. I am sure you have heard the old story that when God created man he didn't provide enough blood to run the brain and penis at the same time.
I hope you will soon find the love you deserve.
Take care.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

Language can be insensitive, but I think people should be allowed to draw a distinction without taking heat. It's just a matter of using the terms in the right contexts with respect. I do like the way you try and raise people's consciousnesses, though. Yes, the phrase carries a nasty connotation for you, but people DO need some way to delineate between someone who was born female and can theoretically give them children and someone who can't. Aside from that, all labels are inherently pernicious and wrong.

I don't have any easy advice for a person in your position. Your situation -- to put it mildly -- is utterly beyond my own limited spheres of experience. On the other hand, it sounds like you pick up some really classy people (sarcasm) and I wonder if there's any way for you to be more selective? Your quoting of Angie Zapata's murderer is an example of the kind of callous mentality I'm talking of: "I had to hit it". Who the hell says something as profoundly repugnant as that, let alone after killing someone? (I'm talking about the person responsible, not you for quoting it, by the way). If the people around you are even a tenth as bad as this, then, if I were you, I think I'd choose to remain celibate (which I currently am). I really hope this doesn't cause you personal offence, but you don't mince your words, and neither will I: Why do you talk about sleeping with this man or that man if they're all such bastards? Is sex a compulsion for you? Or do you keep wishing for the best and finding the worst? Given that I am celibate and would rather a deep, lasting relationship, I personally find it a bit galling to hear you wanting the same yet talk of sleeping with all these people who apparently dump you the moment the deed is done.

Other than that, I will repeat the opening sentence of my last paragraph: I don't have any easy advice for a person in your position. Do you have some for me? I find it difficult to connect with people in a meaningful way, which I personally find as agonising as the way you describe your own situation -- even though you clearly do face ten times the oppression and adversity that I (and many others of us) do. Bionca, I wish you all the best and I hope to hear more from you. Lastly, I again wish to say I hope I haven't offended you.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by DL_NL

As for Transjen: do you live in the US? If so, geez... there's a lot of work left to get your country out of the sexual Dark Ages. And judging by some people's responses I doubt if it'll ever happen.

Yes i do, But i do want to point this out it doesn't matter where you live this stuff happens to T-girls all over the world not just in the US, Please note i'm not putting down any country or state i'm just stating a fact, Yes in some place we are treated and accepted a lot better then in other places but no matter where you go you find a certen kinda of mentality that wants us locked away out of site out of mind because we don't fit in there way the world is supposed to be according to them, Neil Young said it very well" i don't feel like satan but i am to them" Jennifer

[transjen]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Well, the parents are a no-go. Once I grew some boobs they made it very clear they didn't want a daughter and haven't returned any attempts to communicate. I'm living SECRETLY with my brother because he's afraid that they will freak out on him too and (for whatever reason) wants to have active grandparents for his kid. Last I heard they didn't even have any pictures of me on the wall in the house *shrug*
.

Same here my dad and brother wants nothing to do with me and as far as they are consered i don't exist, My mom is having a very hard time dealing with it but at least she is willing to talk to me, My sister blames herself long story there but short verson she caught me trying on her cloths and she just let me wear them in secert i think she liked the idea of having a little sister but she is blaming herself because i'm Jennifer now, Keep try to reach out hopeful one day they will come to terms with it, When your family turns there back on you that is the hardest slap ever but i'm affraid it happens all too offen, Try this i had my therapist talk to my mom and that broke the ice a little and started us talking agian Jennifer

[new believer]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Well, the parents are a no-go. Once I grew some boobs they made it very clear they didn't want a daughter and haven't returned any attempts to communicate. I'm living SECRETLY with my brother because he's afraid that they will freak out on him too and (for whatever reason) wants to have active grandparents for his kid. Last I heard they didn't even have any pictures of me on the wall in the house *shrug*

Also, I only look for guys looking for gals like me. I have no desire to have that type of conversation with someone - one of the reasons I still only go dancing at gay clubs, won't date guys from work, give guys who ask a fake phone number ... I have no reason to trust that some random dude who hits on me isn't going to freak out (even if he says he doesn't care).

Okay, I see your points. But really think about it. If you feel you always have to be braver, blah blah blah, then your in for a rough ride. You accepted this life earlier because you felt it to be right. People will accept you because they feel it to be right. All those who just 'accept' you only as objects of desire, well that's what they feel. Sooner or later that feeling can possibly bloom into something greater. But don't jump ahead of me on this. DO be careful of 'dates' even GG's have to be. Do make a point of developing a 'knowing' relationship before a physical one. And the guys who bail, let them. their not worth it anyway. I feel I must defend some married guys as well as to refreshen your memory, as with even a dating couple, a girl(GG or TRANS) or guy will want to keep a certain amount of secrecy because they may want to see if the relationship is first worth the effort or 'lost' of their current mate. Not everyone meets, falls in love and stays together from the first. it's called growing up and moving on (and most times to the better). You seem to be having a rough time out there. From your posts, you seem like a really beautiful person. Please don't let the bad get to you. Your destined to make someone out there a very happy person. Enjoy yourself as you would as a teenager but with adult knowledge. If I could relive my life with what I know now, Boy would I be someone else. NB

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by TheSkronkDonkey

Language can be insensitive, but I think people should be allowed to draw a distinction without taking heat. It's just a matter of using the terms in the right contexts with respect. I do like the way you try and raise people's consciousnesses, though. Yes, the phrase carries a nasty connotation for you, but people DO need some way to delineate between someone who was born female and can theoretically give them children and someone who can't. Aside from that, all labels are inherently pernicious and wrong.

I don't have any easy advice for a person in your position. Your situation -- to put it mildly -- is utterly beyond my own limited spheres of experience. On the other hand, it sounds like you pick up some really classy people (sarcasm) and I wonder if there's any way for you to be more selective? Your quoting of Angie Zapata's murderer is an example of the kind of callous mentality I'm talking of: "I had to hit it". Who the hell says something as profoundly repugnant as that, let alone after killing someone? (I'm talking about the person responsible, not you for quoting it, by the way). If the people around you are even a tenth as bad as this, then, if I were you, I think I'd choose to remain celibate (which I currently am). I really hope this doesn't cause you personal offence, but you don't mince your words, and neither will I: Why do you talk about sleeping with this man or that man if they're all such bastards? Is sex a compulsion for you? Or do you keep wishing for the best and finding the worst? Given that I am celibate and would rather a deep, lasting relationship, I personally find it a bit galling to hear you wanting the same yet talk of sleeping with all these people who apparently dump you the moment the deed is done.

Other than that, I will repeat the opening sentence of my last paragraph: I don't have any easy advice for a person in your position. Do you have some for me? I find it difficult to connect with people in a meaningful way, which I personally find as agonising as the way you describe your own situation -- even though you clearly do face ten times the oppression and adversity that I (and many others of us) do. Bionca, I wish you all the best and I hope to hear more from you. Lastly, I again wish to say I hope I haven't offended you.

Well, the guys mentioned in my first post were sprinkled through the past 7 years. The thing is... I AM selective when it comes to giving up the goodies. As often as not the "real girl" crap comes out because I didn't want to do anythong other than the agreed upon date. I also want to give people chances, so there was a point when I'd just go out with whomever asked provided they knew my status. Some of those were fine affairs, some became funny stories, some were downright insulting - not different than anyone's dates. It's the level of disrespect, not showing up for dates, and assumptions about gals like me that my natal femail friends simply can't relate to, but all my trans* friends know only too well. I think part of my personal issue is I went from very trusting and willing to give everyone a "shot" to being really jaded and untrusting in a rather short amount of time.

The past two years I have barely had any sex because I'm just tired of the BS, tired of being afraid, tired of being insulted, tired of that damn awkward silence as he pulls on his pants and he can't look me in the eye, tired of compliments being followed by "but...". Right now, I have a steady very casual FWB thing. It's fine since I don't expect anything else and I haven't been led to expect anything more either. Given what I hear from other T-gals this is about as good as it's likely to get - my past 7 year (open) relationship was some sort of fluke. Is that true - I don't know... I hope not *shrug*

Advice for you... You say you find it hard to connect with people. Why? What happens? Is it shyness on your part. do you find it difficult to "read" people's reactions? Or is it external, like you are in a situation where it is hard to meet people you have stuff in common? Do you find that you seem to connect with people but they seem to soon lose interest?

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I'm really not fond of non-trans women being called "real" girls, or for that matter trans women being referred to in the feminine with quotes around the pronouns - Like:

I really had a good time with a hot "girl" from the local tranny bar. "She" was pretty and looked like a real girl until "she" got naked.

I agree - I also believe that neglecting the fact that a transsexual is actually a transsexual woman as opposed to being a cisgendered woman is the same as disrespecting both her reality and femininity.

Again I get my opinion from a few of my very bright transsexual friends here who basicly consider themselves TRANS women and not cisgendered women.

The whole issue is to accept and understand M2F transsexuality as more than just an attempt to change gender. She may not be able to change her cromosones, but that does not make her less feminine or less of a woman - by my standards anyway.

H

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by randolph

Dear Bionca,
I really appreciate your comments and the comments by Fran and other Tgirls. I must admit I joined this forum to look at shemale images and feel horney. I imagined that transexuals were somehow more sexually endowed than genetic women. I had no idea that transitioning was so difficult and even dangerous, in addition to the loss of family support. I am sure you have heard the old story that when God created man he didn't provide enough blood to run the brain and penis at the same time.
I hope you will soon find the love you deserve.
Take care.

This post has been tumbling around in my head for a little while. The tone sounds almost like an apology (as do a number of posts here). There is no need to apologize for being sexually aroused by a trans*woman - shoot, I'm rather fond of it when a guy is aroused by this transwoman. There is also no need to apologize for men in general - since the topic on this thread absolutely passes to non-trans women. Some of the MOST vicious things directed to me and my friends (as well as more famous trans*) have been from natal women. Women are probably more critical of gendered presentation than men are (ask any natal woman who was tall, chunky, a tom-boy who was meaner boys or girls).

So, sure T-gals get disrespected front and back from a little slice of everyone. The battles over using public restrooms for example ... oh man. It's not just a guy thing and it's not just a sex thing. Liking trans* bodies and arousal is probably a good thing. Understanding that we are more and less than guys with tits is critical.

[desirouspussy]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Some of the MOST vicious things directed to me and my friends (as well as more famous trans*) have been from natal women. Women are probably more critical of gendered presentation than men are (ask any natal woman who was tall, chunky, a tom-boy who was meaner boys or girls).

I have come to believe that (natal) women are generally more tolerant towards homo-sexuality than men. Your comment therefore comes as a complete surprise to me, Bionca.

Personally, I have nothing but admiration for the courage and perseverance that you and many other transsexual women are showing. In fact, even though you're not into women, I would love to have you as my friend.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Well, the guys mentioned in my first post were sprinkled through the past 7 years. The thing is... I AM selective when it comes to giving up the goodies. As often as not the "real girl" crap comes out because I didn't want to do anythong other than the agreed upon date. I also want to give people chances, so there was a point when I'd just go out with whomever asked provided they knew my status. Some of those were fine affairs, some became funny stories, some were downright insulting - not different than anyone's dates. It's the level of disrespect, not showing up for dates, and assumptions about gals like me that my natal femail friends simply can't relate to, but all my trans* friends know only too well. I think part of my personal issue is I went from very trusting and willing to give everyone a "shot" to being really jaded and untrusting in a rather short amount of time.

The past two years I have barely had any sex because I'm just tired of the BS, tired of being afraid, tired of being insulted, tired of that damn awkward silence as he pulls on his pants and he can't look me in the eye, tired of compliments being followed by "but...". Right now, I have a steady very casual FWB thing. It's fine since I don't expect anything else and I haven't been led to expect anything more either. Given what I hear from other T-gals this is about as good as it's likely to get - my past 7 year (open) relationship was some sort of fluke. Is that true - I don't know... I hope not *shrug*

Thanks for not beating me to death, Bionca. My tone was a little testy, I think, in spite of my pledge to the contrary. I appreciate your reply.

Originally Posted by Bionca

Advice for you... You say you find it hard to connect with people. Why? What happens? Is it shyness on your part. do you find it difficult to "read" people's reactions? Or is it external, like you are in a situation where it is hard to meet people you have stuff in common? Do you find that you seem to connect with people but they seem to soon lose interest?

I think the underlying cause is FEAR -- especially of the last scenario (i.e. that people will lose interest in time). And here's something else . . .

I tend to take things really personally and get hacked off the minute I hear ignorant judgementalism from someone, whether it's on sex and gender, music, books or whatever.

Of course, we should probably all hate ignorant judgementalism, but given that we're all guilty of it at times, I think my reaction is too extreme. In reality, it's probably a convenient excuse my mind has become adept at generating as a reason to keep people at a distance or push them away entirely.

I think I lack a great deal of confidence in myself and am never secure enough in my beliefs and life choices to be entirely comfortable around others. I think I continually struggle with determining how much of myself I should reveal to another person -- and that, in turn, hampers me in all things.

Apologies for the bleak and somewhat whiney response.

[ladyboy1234]

any sexy ladyboys care to give the email add?..hehe..thx

[orion]

This is a fascinating thread and one which I'm sure will run & run ..

I agree Bionca, that labels are a pain ... I,for example, dislike the term "Admirer" .. to me that conjures up a vision of a sad little man in a dirty raincoat, lurking furtively on the edges of the Transgendered scene ... It most certainly doesn't describe me .. I prefer to describe myself (if I have to wear a label at all) as a "Suitor" .. as that best describes who and what I am ...

I suppose we could call those born genetically Female either "RG's" .. "GG's" or "NG's" (Natal Girls) ... but again, we're back to putting people into boxes ..

No matter how hard the Politically Correct lobby tries to counter it .. the world has been "pigeon-holing" people since time began .. and it won't change ..

Some terms of reference are, without doubt more offensive than others .. personally, I don't much like the word "Tranny" .. yet I hear it often being used amongst many of the Transgendered women I know .. so what do you do ? .. I've even heard the expression "Trannier than Thou" being bandied around in conversation & used as a put-down for a Transgendered woman who believes herself a cut above others ..

I'm sad to learn of the difficulties experienced by some writers concerning their dealings with Police .. here in UK we have the Gender Recognition Act .. and no Police Officer would risk his/her job by overstepping the mark .. in fact, I personally know two serving UK Police officers .. both of whom are MtF Transsexuals ..

My former partner (with whom I was in a two year relationship) and who, at that time was still Pre-op, was stopped late one night in Central London by Police .. because on her way home from the Hospital where she worked she'd pulled over to answer her mobile phone, right outside a sensitive Government building .. the Police checked her vehicle documents, which were still in her "Birth" name .. verified that she was who she said she was & was in lawful possession of the vehicle .. and throughout the encounter addressed her as "Miss Robin" ...

To say that "All Cops are assholes" is painting with a very broad brush indeed .. and is as untrue as saying .. "All TG people are the same" .. or "All Blacks are drug dealers" ... Think about it logically ..

Bye for now,

Orion ..

[Amy]

Originally Posted by fatbloke

It's the 21st century and attitudes are still the same as they have been for 1000's of years,regarding race,gender whatever,the human race is still a bunch of small minded,self serving bunch of c****.

Th sad thing is, this is a fairly recent development within the last couple of thousand years in most of the west, prior to that we often had a recognised and respected place in many cultures. In some further east that christianity had less of an effect on, we still do.

[orion]

Hi Amy ..

That's very true .. in fact I was thinking only last night about the special place held by Transgendered people in Native American culture (remember the film "A Man called Horse") ??

Certainly within the Sioux Nation & I believe to an extent within the Cheyenne people .. the Transgendered were accorded special status ..

The subsequent "Western" persecution of the Transgendereed & Gay communities can be laid firmly at the door of the Church ... though in reality they have little to gripe about ..

One of their most revered Saints (Joan of Arc) was probably Transgendered .. or if not, then certainly was "XYY" chromosome afflicted ...

Surely, in 2009 the world is a big enough place for us all to co-exist .. if not exactly in "peace" then at least in tolerance ?????

Bye for now,

Orion ..

[lebguy]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I'm really not fond of non-trans women being called "real" girls, or for that matter trans women being referred to in the feminine with quotes around the pronouns - Like:

I really had a good time with a hot "girl" from the local tranny bar. "She" was pretty and looked like a real girl until "she" got naked.

Aside from the obvious trivializing of my identity and the stuff I had to go through and endure; it's dangerous. Seriously dangerous - Angie Zapata's murderer told the cops "I had to hit it" - Angie wasn't a woman..she wasn't even a person. To a lesser degree, I have been with at least 5 guys who at some post let me know that they were done with me because they liked "real girls". One of them minutes after he talked me (begged is probably a better term) into giving it up for him. I was in bed when he got that stupid awkward look on his face and said "wow you were really hot - but I like the real thing".

I could point out the purely physical stuff and say that they are "feminine" or "womanly" - but really, I was as much a woman before I ever laid eyes on hormones or a skirt or some eyeliner so that whole "femininity" thing doesn't really prove anything - I'd be a chick if I stopped shaving my legs and wore a suit - it's who I am not what I'm wearing.

I think the part that stinks for me (and probably most Trans* folks) is me transitioning was me being 100% authentic - ultimately honest with myself and the world. When that honesty is called dishonest it hurts.

First, I wanna say Happy New Year everyone and I hope 2009 will be full of safety, happiness, love and security for everyone. I know I haven't been on for some time, I really have bad times and preferring to be away of people.

I think I mentioned it many times before, but for me there is no difference between "girls" and "tgirls" in my opinion, that's why I use the term girls for both and there's no difference between them. As Bionca mentioned, it's not how you look, but it's how you feel. girls born in the wrong body if I can say that, have all the right to do whatever it takes so they can feel they are in the right body. I think it's no one business what every single person want to do with their personal lives.

As for relationships, I think it's the same way with everyone, jerks are jerks whether they are guys or girls, good people are also there, but it's kinda hard to find them and I think that we don't really look for good people till after we hit the wall several times.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I'm really not fond of non-trans women being called "real" girls, or for that matter trans women being referred to in the feminine with quotes around the pronouns

Originally Posted by Bionca

Also, I only look for guys looking for gals like me.

Ok, so it does seem that you distinguish between gals like you, and gals who are not like you. Shall we refer to "real" girls from now on as gals unlike Bionca? Or do you have any other suggestions for terminology we should use when talking about "real" girls with people who don't know Bionca?