Barack Obama

[transjen]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Yeah, probably not a good time to start all those big spending programs. Oops.

You mean like what W did with the GOP congress and senate from 01 thru 06? It seems as long as it's a program from the GOP to help the rich you are all smiles but any program to help the working poor you are against. Besides you are forgetting who created this mess GEORGE W BUSH and his REAGEN trickle down ecomics which only helps those who don't need help and leaves a hugh debit to be paid by everyone else

Jerseygirl Jen

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

You mean like what W did with the GOP congress and senate from 01 thru 06?

There was no financial crisis then. And what big spending programs did Bush start in addition to the wars? Wars that BO has decided to continue BTW.

Originally Posted by transjen

It seems as long as it's a program from the GOP to help the rich you are all smiles but any program to help the working poor you are against.

I'm for programs that help both.

Originally Posted by transjen

Besides you are forgetting who created this mess GEORGE W BUSH and his REAGEN trickle down ecomics which only helps those who don't need help and leaves a hugh debit to be paid by everyone else

I don't see how you have any right to make those claims since you've made them several times over the last several months and have never provided any details on that. So cut the crap. No one's buying it.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

There was no financial crisis then. And what big spending programs did Bush start in addition to the wars? Wars that BO has decided to continue BTW.

I'm for programs that help both.

I don't see how you have any right to make those claims since you've made them several times over the last several months and have never provided any details on that. So cut the crap. No one's buying it.

Sorry that i'm not as intrenched in a party as you are to have a excuss list and links to make W appaer to be one of the greatest presidents of all time behind Regan, Unlike you i see whats going on i get my news from the newspaper the Courier Post the main paper in South Jersey ABC local news out of South Phillie and CNN mostly Wolfe B and LOU DOBBS i don't pay attention to Rush or FOXX NEWS or search the computers bloggers so sorry i don't have these so called spin links that you love and demand. All this links you provided is mostly the same crap the goose stepping Bushies were trying to hand out in 04 and i'm sure those links have been updated since.


Now about W big spending programs rember his great drug plan for seniors? Yeah a program writen for and by the drug and insurence companies which offers little help and is only going to bankrupt medicare.
Now about Obama sticking with the wars, Obama is drawing a close to the Iraq war and he is stepping up in the Afgan war a war that was right but a war W didn't want and didn't care about as he was to busy with Iraq he let Afgan slip in to a big mess and he never did catch Bin- Laddin because i think he never wanted him captured
Jerseygirl Jen

[Mel Asher]

From where I'm sitting, I think it's far too early for Barack to be judged or analysed through partisan eyes. He has one hell of a job in fron of him with Social Reforms, and the Senate are not likely to make that an easy ride. As far as international politics goes, the image of America ( for whatever reason ) has suffered severely in the last two decades world-wide, and this will not be changed overnight, especially in the face of sustained propaganda from America's enemies ( and, sadly, her ' allies ' too ).

What do other Brits think ? This thread is a really interesting one ! Keep posting ! !

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Mel Asher

From where I'm sitting, I think it's far too early for Barack to be judged or analysed through partisan eyes.

I don't think it's too early. We're not just judging him. We're judging his policies. Policies that have been tried before and have failed.

[randolph]

From Washington Monthly
SWEET SURRENDER.... In this clever Kos item, Stroszek, responding to "cogent and potent criticisms" from the right, is prepared to offer Republican critics of health care reform a gracious compromise.

Over the past week, we have seen your passionate protests and heard your concerns about Democratic proposals for health care reform. We have considered your insightful and well reasoned arguments, and on behalf of progressives everywhere, I am here to say: OK! We give up! We are willing to compromise on the proposals that concern you. You've won! Yay!

Yes, in light of the provisions that conservative activists have demanded be removed from any and all legislation, Stroszek is willing to say, without equivocation, that under Democratic reform proposals, "We will not euthanize your grandmother." Democrats will also agree, among other things, not to let Rahm Emanuel's brother kill Sarah Palin's baby, not to nationalize hospitals, not to "provide illegal immigrants with unlimited free health care," not to eliminate private insurance, and not to establish "a super-secret-awesome health care program for ACORN employees."

With these concessions having been made, I trust that we can now move forward on health care reform with a broad, bipartisan consensus. Blue Dogs and Republicans, you can now rest easy knowing that the concerns of the town hall protesters have been met. While the progressive dream of a nation in which old people are slaughtered to pay for the abortions of ACORN-employed illegal immigrants will again have to be deferred, we are willing to settle for a bill without these measures in the name of bipartisanship. Congratulations, Republicans. You've won this round.

The right sure knows how to drive a hard bargain, but I can live with these painful concessions, giving up these long-held liberal goals.

Compromise is all about give and take, and Democrats, no matter how much they want to euthanize grandmothers or reward ACORN employees, should be prepared to accept these concessions. Republicans, who seem to take these concerns very seriously, should be thrilled.

Can we pass reform now?

[aa2239]

Originally Posted by Mel Asher

What do other Brits think ? This thread is a really interesting one ! Keep posting ! !

Personally, I think that the American right wing barracking of Obama (excuse the pun) so early into his Presidency, and in light of the enormous challenges he faces (thanks in part to his inept Republican predecessor), borders on the shameful.

The right wing and general public's response to Obama's proposed healthcare reforms has been an outright disgrace, even dragging the name of America's closest ally through the mire, just to try and further discredit Obama... I find it astonishing that dumb and not-so-dumb Americans alike are jumping on the bandwagon to criticise a healthcare system that they have absolutely no experience of, and know very little about... as far as I'm concerned, the NHS is one of the crowning achievements of Western society. It may not be perfect, but at least it is based on the principle of EQUALITY (not Socialism), something that the Amercian right wing seems desperate to avoid in their country. For that reason alone, I say thank God I'm not American. I find myself thinking: "can't Americans see the overwhelming need for this sort of reform in their country, to improve the lot of the tens of millions of poor and disadvantaged when it comes to healthcare?"

I'm not saying that Obama is and will always be right, but given the unique set of circumstances he currently faces, he can't be judged for another year or two at least, and I think the majority of Americans should be applauding his intentions, especially after the Bush years. And this whole business about Americans slagging off the NHS really has annoyed me, especially given the fact that us Brits actually have a slightly higher life expectancy across the board compared to our US counterparts. There, that's my two cents lol.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

Sorry that i'm not as intrenched in a party as you are to have a excuss list and links to make W appaer to be one of the greatest presidents of all time behind Regan

If that's what you think I'm doing, you're not paying attention.

Originally Posted by transjen

Now about W big spending programs rember his great drug plan for seniors? Yeah a program writen for and by the drug and insurence companies which offers little help and is only going to bankrupt medicare.

HEY!! Congratulations!!! You are on the verge of actually backing up one of your statements. And you may actually have one here. I haven't heard of it. Can you give more details?

Originally Posted by transjen

Now about Obama sticking with the wars, Obama is drawing a close to the Iraq war

No, that was Bush that was drawing a close to the Iraq war after the surge worked. He and the Iraqi government already set a time table for withdrawal from Iraq. BO wanted to withdraw troops over 16 months, but it's more like Bush's plan now.

Originally Posted by transjen

and he is stepping up in the Afgan war a war that was right but a war W didn't want and didn't care about as he was to busy with Iraq he let Afgan slip in to a big mess and he never did catch Bin- Laddin because i think he never wanted him captured

The fighting was over in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda went elsewhere to cause trouble. They have since come back. Both Bush & BO wanted to return to Afghanistan to do another clean up.

As for the hunt for bin laden. Yes we must get him. But should we focus all our efforts on only finding him? It's easy for one person to hide and never be found. Do you think the conflict will be over if Bin Laden is gone? Of course not. Bush went after Al Qaeda. Given the choice, I'd choose Bin Laden without Al Qaeda rather than Al Qaeda without Bin Laden.

[ila]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

......The fighting was over in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda went elsewhere to cause trouble. They have since come back. Both Bush & BO wanted to return to Afghanistan to do another clean up.....

The fighting in Afghanistan was never over. Al Qaida was driven and so was the Taliban. The Taliban have been waging an insurgency ever since 2002. It has been stronger at some times than at other times, but it has never died out.

[tslust]

Originally Posted by ila

The fighting in Afghanistan was never over. Al Qaida was driven and so was the Taliban. The Taliban have been waging an insurgency ever since 2002. It has been stronger at some times than at other times, but it has never died out.

That's true, it's interesting to note that Afganistan has never actually been conquered by an outside force.

[ila]

Originally Posted by tslust

....it's interesting to note that Afganistan has never actually been conquered by an outside force.

It has been. Alexander the Great conquered the area and about 16 centuries after him the Mongols did also. Of course the country of Afghanistan didn't exist then. The various areas were under tribal control.