Barack Obama

[TracyCoxx]

You could have slightly reworded this to talk about the democrats and the Bush administration.

It looks like the Democrats are willing to take down the country with their failed party.

Congressional Democrats, instead of acting "chastened" after electoral and governmental failure, remain committed to conspiracy theories and arguments that have "bordered on the deranged."

Given all of this, the Democrat Party has "declared war" on the president.

Their clear and open intent is to do all they can, however they can, to sabotage the administration (and the economy and war to boot). They want failure. Even now. Even in times as steeply dangerous as this. There are legitimate debates to be had; and then there is the cynicism and surrealism of total political war. We now should have even less doubt about what kind of people they are.

Tough stuff, to be sure. The question, I suppose, is what the White House -- and a president who's repeatedly committed to trying to find common ground with the failed minority party -- is going to do about it. If the Democratic Party is driven by a combination of partisan schemes and a desire to see Bush fail, how will the administration respond?

The president "should have no illusions about the good faith of his opponents."

Bush should now understand that the Democrats are not reliable partners -- and never have been. Most are stuck in the contentious past, rutted in Kennedyism, intent on taking a Carterist course on the economy.

This could have been written in 2004 and would have been very accurate. It's amazing how the democrats have such amnesia over how they have treated Bush over his presidency. And now they expect to govern as if nothing has happened. The democrats have blamed EVERYTHING on Bush - from Clinton's CIA intelligence screwups to the Carter & Clinton financial mess to steering Hurricane Katrina to the poor areas of New Orleans with some classified weather machine. So drop the act. The BS has been so prevalent that you have to have really been paying attention while things happened, or do some serious research to cut through it.

Now you guys want to pass this spendulus package with all the obvious pork it contains. When we're deep into a recession, how can you POSSIBLY justify overspending by $2.5 TRILLION???! Seriously... tell me what a good idea that is.

[randolph]

Today my wife and I had lunch at a local restaurant. My wife went to the restroom and overheard two lesbians badmouthing Obama. As we left the restaurant, they drove off in a new Mercedes sports car. I guess I have more to learn about capitalism.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

You could have slightly reworded this to talk about the democrats and the Bush administration.



This could have been written in 2004 and would have been very accurate. It's amazing how the democrats have such amnesia over how they have treated Bush over his presidency. And now they expect to govern as if nothing has happened. The democrats have blamed EVERYTHING on Bush - from Clinton's CIA intelligence screwups to the Carter & Clinton financial mess to steering Hurricane Katrina to the poor areas of New Orleans with some classified weather machine. So drop the act. The BS has been so prevalent that you have to have really been paying attention while things happened, or do some serious research to cut through it.

Now you guys want to pass this spendulus package with all the obvious pork it contains. When we're deep into a recession, how can you POSSIBLY justify overspending by $2.5 TRILLION???! Seriously... tell me what a good idea that is.

You sit there, with cock out and everything and you and your kind have had eight horrible years to screw up the entire world... which you did! Luckily you're GONE! One can only hope that the reactionary front will for ever be gone.

You and that regime that you voted for has created SO much havoc in this little world, and you still are fucking cocky enough to plead your case? Shame on you, shame on you.

Geo Bush and Dick Cheney were the most incompetent (and most likely corrupt) socalled leadership this world has ever witnessed... and you still salute them? How can you? It's simply beyond me.

But you're beyond reach - a true believer, I guess.

Good riddance.

H

[randolph]

Geo Bush and Dick Cheney were the most incompetent (and most likely corrupt) socalled leadership this world has ever witnessed... and you still salute them? How can you? It's simply beyond me.

Hey Hank, Thanks for the support. It's sadly apparent that Reflublicans will never change. They will be on the street living out of their cars along with the rest of us and they will still blame somebody else. They are incapable of taking any responsibility for their actions. Fuck em!

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Geo Bush and Dick Cheney were the most incompetent (and most likely corrupt) socalled leadership this world has ever witnessed... and you still salute them? How can you? It's simply beyond me.

Hey Hank, Thanks for the support. It's sadly apparent that Reflublicans will never change. They will be on the street living out of their cars along with the rest of us and they will still blame somebody else. They are incapable of taking any responsibility for their actions. Fuck em!

So you can't say it's a good idea. I don't blame you. Well Republicans can't either so that's why they're not voting for it.

[randolph]

Tracy
Now you guys want to pass this spendulus package with all the obvious pork it contains. When we're deep into a recession, how can you POSSIBLY justify overspending by $2.5 TRILLION???! Seriously... tell me what a good idea that is.

Well it's not a good idea when we are already deep in debt. So what should we do, give the remaining rich a tax break? Or, here is a novel idea, lets start a war! Wars have got us out of depressions in the past. Oops, I forgot, we are already in a war that has cost trillions thanks to the Bush/Cheny con job. So maybe it will work to help people keep their jobs, borrow money and get the economy flowing again by pouring money into the system. For the sake of all of us including the skeptics, it better WORK!

[randolph]

For any one interested in politics, democracy and capitalism, I am reading and recommend the "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein, a bestseller. She helps clarify what Milton Friedman and Reaganomics is all about.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Well it's not a good idea when we are already deep in debt. So what should we do, give the remaining rich a tax break?

No one is saying give the rich a tax break. They're already paying 35% to taxes. What percentage are you paying?

Originally Posted by randolph

Or, here is a novel idea, lets start a war! Wars have got us out of depressions in the past. Oops, I forgot, we are already in a war that has cost trillions thanks to the Bush/Cheny con job.

Whatever was spent on the Iraq war over the last 5+ years was matched this WEEK ALONE on the spendulous package. I thought the republicans were overspending, but DAYYYUM!

Originally Posted by randolph

So maybe it will work to help people keep their jobs, borrow money and get the economy flowing again by pouring money into the system. For the sake of all of us including the skeptics, it better WORK!

I'm sure there are at least a few things in there to actually create jobs and stimulate the economy. But a very large percentage does not stimulate the economy. Let's not forget something. Every penny of this spendulus package comes from foreign money that we will have to pay back. How will we pay it back?

In order of really obvious to debatable is:
First, all the pork that has nothing to do with stimulating the economy (and there is a LOT), should be cut out of the stimulus package. This is one of those No Shit things and should be obvious to anyone outside of Washington, regardless of your party.

Second, cut out everything that provides for illegal aliens. Providing services to illegal aliens encourages more of them to come into the country and consume resources tax free. This does not stimulate the economy - it does the opposite.

Third, all the billions in thanks-for-getting-Obama-elected money for groups like ACORN, Hollywood, etc should be cut out. That has no business in a stimulus package, and there's no reason my kids and their kids should incur debt for that.

Fourth (here's where it starts getting trickier for democrats), there's a whole class of services the bill wants to provide that parents are perfectly able to provide. Give the people tax breaks, or make it easier for corporations to hire more people and people will be able to provide these things for their selves and their own children. It's more efficient and it gives people pride to be able to support themselves and their families.

Fifth (even more tricky for democrats), the government should not be in the business of buying homes for people. That is insane.

Sixth (democrats wet dream), no national health care for the general population. This is way too costly.

Cutting all these things should be seriously considered when you consider for a moment that we don't have the money to do this. If you don't agree, tell me why these things are important enough to add another $800 billion to our national debt. Again, how will we pay it back? The US govt is going to have to start spending less than it receives in taxes. Will we be able to do this? The spendulus package will create jobs at government expense. To spend less than the govt receives, those jobs will eventually have to be axed. Unless we're going to tack on another several hundred billion dollars to our budget every year for the foreseeable future. Extra points if you can tell me what the effect of a rapidly growing debt does to the economy.

Before you go on a rant again about the republicans, I will whole heartedly agree that they have spent too much as well. I will not agree that they caused the financial mess over the last 8 years though when Bush has been warning congress throughout his two terms about it, and the roots of the financial problems started 30 years ago. But yes, they have spent too much.

So Obama says

Originally Posted by Obama

First of all, when I hear that from folks who presided over a doubling of the national debt, then, you know, I just want them to not engage in some revisionist history. I inherited the deficit that we have right now and the economic crisis that we have right now.

Now Obama is revising history himself, but aside from that, he spent half of his speech saying how the policies of the last 8 years wrecked the economy, then says they doubled the debt. So his solution is to increase the debt another 25% in his first 2 months of office?

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

You sit there, with cock out and everything and you and your kind have had eight horrible years to screw up the entire world... which you did! Luckily you're GONE! One can only hope that the reactionary front will for ever be gone. You and that regime that you voted for has created SO much havoc in this little world, and you still are fucking cocky enough to plead your case? Shame on you, shame on you.

Geo Bush and Dick Cheney were the most incompetent (and most likely corrupt) socalled leadership this world has ever witnessed... and you still salute them? How can you? It's simply beyond me.

But you're beyond reach - a true believer, I guess. Good riddance.

Originally Posted by randolph

Hey Hank, Thanks for the support. It's sadly apparent that Reflublicans will never change. They will be on the street living out of their cars along with the rest of us and they will still blame somebody else. They are incapable of taking any responsibility for their actions. Fuck em!

And yet ironically for both Hank and Randolph, new polls out this weekend show that for opposing Obama's spending plan, Republicans have actually GAINED significant Congressional approval ratings and -- wait for it -- now trail the Democrats by only one mere point. In fact, other polls show that with the Obama plan now out there, if the midterm elections were held right now...this very day...the Republicans would likely gain back seats in Congress, thus thwarting the Obama dynasty even more. Which just goes to show you have fast political fortunes are won and lost.

And with that in mind, it's no wonder that the far Left is getting vocally disgruntled and angry at Obama themselves, since they too realize the clock is ticking down on them...that Middle America and the more moderate, middle of the road Clinton democrats don't like what they're seeing...and thus they realize if they don't ram through their ultra Left programs now, come midterms it really will be over.

So for Hank -- when you're out bitching about the "last 8 years", DO try to remember that it was the Democrats and NOT the Republicans who completely controlled Congress for the last 2 of those years, which (gee, what a shock) is ALSO when the economy started to go into the toilet...

And for Randolph -- when you're out on the street pushing your car, likewise try to remember those two lesbians you mentioned before, who are now ALSO bitching about Obama because that paints a FAR more telling picture.

Overall, Obama is starting to show the classic signs of a politician who needs to get his act together. And since he's only been in office a short bit, he needs to do it fast or else he will become Jimmy Carter Part 2. Right now people are still willing to give him -- as the new guy on the job -- the benefit of the doubt for a little bit longer him...but only for a LITTLE BIT longer. That's why Obama's PERSONAL approval rating is still up around 65-70% right now, and yet support among the American people for his stimulus plan is only at 30-odd percent. In short, people like the GUY, but they don't like his PLAN, nor are they buying the typical bullshit that the Left is trying to ram down everyone's throats right now (which actually brings us back to a basic political notion that, on the whole, America is still "center right". In short, people don't mind SOME change, but they don't want DRASTIC change.)

The bottom line is this: in every single poll out there, the OVERWHELMING majority of Americans are worried more than ever before. The BAD news for Obama right now is that polls show the vast majority of Americans STILL feel his stimulus plan is all wrong, no matter how many speeches he gives... they STILL doubt it will work at all, and they STILL feel it's filled with more pork than actual job creation... and worst of all (and what truly scares the utter shit out of them) people also overwhelmingly feel that Obama and the Democrats are planning to come knocking on their door YET AGAIN to collect and spend even MORE money.

So, you guys can rant about "the last 8 years" and do your usual tirades about Bush all you want. But he's gone, Obama is in charge, and the American people are NOT the type to ever look back -- the truth is they're looking Obama square in the eyes and saying "This crisis hit the fan BEFORE election day. You TOLD us that IF we elected you, YOU would have all the answers. So shut up about Bush and PROVE you really did deserve this job. Otherwise you're history in 4 years." And as I noted before, it's certainy bad news for Obama and the Democrats that approval ratings for their economic choices are tanking... that they're decisions have caused Wall Street to slide even further into a dark hole... and most amazingly of all, for all the bitching that people like Hank might do as an overseas citizen, it must amaze him to know that here in America Republican approval ratings are actually back UP now and only 1 point behind Obama and the Dems.

[randolph]

The bottom line is this: in every single poll out there, the OVERWHELMING majority of Americans are worried more than ever before. Creativemind

Well duh! we are descending into a depression! Can Obama's program save us, I sure hope so. The consequences of failure are dire indeed. As Naomi Kline points out in her new book, the capitalists will further erode our democracy and we will end up with plutocracy with no say in government, no civil rights and no freedom of speech. I am afraid the Reflublicans in their delight in wishing Obama's failure are inviting what they fear most, the loss of our democracy.

[randolph]

by David Glenn Cox
Excerpt from "Let the Sky Fall"

Let us wipe the stars from our eyes. These Republicans are not going to cooperate, not now, not ever. They will use every tool at their disposal to subvert, obstruct, divert, and defame because, in the words of their hero, they want to see Obama fail. If you or a few million other Americans suffer, well, they just don't care. Why should they? They never cared before; they're the party of self, self-righteous and self-aggrandizing. They accept their wealth as a God-given prerogative to rule over the unwashed multitudes. Even now they preach if we don't do anything the economy will fix itself in a year or two. We just have to take our medicine, but what they mean is you have to take their medicine and that's just too bad for you.

They have proven by their behavior that they are not a party of democratic principles but a party of semi-compassionate fascism. They will cede no ground because of an election, or a wave of public sentiment. They will do whatever they deem necessary to bring down this administration, even let the sky fall.

So, let the sky fall, let the sun crash and commence with the days of iron rain. Let the blood of the guilty and the tears of the innocent mix and intermingle in the sewers of greed. They seek the truth through gold, eternal life through eternal wealth, and the gospel of freedom through the cleansing of the iron rain. They see men as tools and tools as men; Heaven and Hell being all in one place, at their discretion alone. The war has begun, the blood will flow into the crop circles of the damned, and in the puddles of the iron rain.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

The bottom line is this: in every single poll out there, the OVERWHELMING majority of Americans are worried more than ever before. Creativemind

Well duh! we are descending into a depression!

Source?

What makes you think we're descending into a depression? The liberal news media? Obama's rhetoric? Despite their criticisms of the Republicans using scare tactics to stir up support for the war, the democrats (and their press secretaries... I mean the media) are using scare tactics to convince people that this is the end of times, and therefore drastic measures need to be taken, like putting us much further into debt.

We're at 7.5% unemployment now, which sucks, but it's nowhere near the 25% during the great depression. What numbers are you looking at?

Originally Posted by randolph

Can Obama's program save us, I sure hope so. The consequences of failure are dire indeed.

Better go buy 1000 cans of pork & beans, get a shotgun, and hide in a bomb shelter with all your cash.

Originally Posted by randolph

Even now they preach if we don't do anything the economy will fix itself in a year or two.

Who says it'll fix itself in a year or two? Probably more like 5-10 years. But at least after that we won't have a larger debt or expensive social programs to deal with. I think it's better if we cut spending. Isn't that what you'd do if you were over spending and had lots of debt? The govt should also free up cash flow for businesses. Those businesses ARE the economy. Not the government.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Source?

The govt should also free up cash flow for businesses. Those businesses ARE the economy. Not the government.

Agreed, I thought that's what Obama is trying to do, provide cash to get businesses going again.

Oh, by the way, I LIKE your new avatar!