Liberal free for all coming to an end

[randolph]

Originally Posted by smc

This is only half the answer. The agreements are also designed to introduce "tripartism" into labor relations in the United States, a concept based on the false notion that government, employers, and workers share the same interests. The real effect is to use the agreements as another means of tearing down the protections that working people have fought for and won over decades as what the European Union calls "harmonization" is established among the countries involved in the agreement. These agreements seek to abrogate existing labor contracts and even the Conventions of the International Labor Organization.

Yes, along with the WTO, we are determined to impose our will on the rest of the world and destroy independent self sufficiency in other countries. Its not all that different from slavery. Make everyone subject to the whim of corporate enterprises that can move their factories to the source of the cheapest labor.

[ila]

Originally Posted by GRH

Quite frankly, America would be a LOT better off if we'd start breaking all of these bullshit "free trade" agreements/treaties.

I agree that these agreements are bullshit. The bullshit is on the part of the US which negotiated them thinking that they could take advantage of other countries. That is why the US keeps taking other countries to court, but when times get tough the whining starts and never stops.

Originally Posted by randolph

The answer is easy. These so called "free trade" agreements are designed to take advantage of other countries. I suspect we get other countries to agree to them with bribes (military hardware). These agreements are disastrous for the small farmers and business in these countries. Mexico is a good example, NAFTA destroyed corn farming in Mexico, consequently desperate farmers are migrating here.

You are right, randolph. These agreements were designed to take advantage of other countries, but it didn't work out that way in the long run.

Do you really think that in the case of the FTA and NAFTA that Canada was bribed with military hardware? Canada, the country where the standard of living is higher and the purchasing power of our currency is greater than the US had to be bribed. Get serious.

Originally Posted by smc

This is only half the answer. The agreements are also designed to introduce "tripartism" into labor relations in the United States, a concept based on the false notion that government, employers, and workers share the same interests. The real effect is to use the agreements as another means of tearing down the protections that working people have fought for and won over decades as what the European Union calls "harmonization" is established among the countries involved in the agreement. These agreements seek to abrogate existing labor contracts and even the Conventions of the International Labor Organization.

The US tried to take advantage of other countries thinking that the rest of the world is such a bunch of dumb rubes. The US sought to abrogate labour contracts and not any other country in NAFTA or the FTA.

Originally Posted by randolph

Yes, along with the WTO, we are determined to impose our will on the rest of the world and destroy independent self sufficiency in other countries. Its not all that different from slavery. Make everyone subject to the whim of corporate enterprises that can move their factories to the source of the cheapest labor.

The US keeps running off to WTO, crying its eyes out, whenever another country wins a frivolous lawsuit brought by the US. It's time to grow up and actually play like adults.

[transjen]

The only thing the US exports from these free trade agreements is US jobs
Notice how all our jobs are going to India and China and the US middle class will soon be an endangered species while China's and India's middle class is growing
Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Originally Posted by transjen

The only thing the US exports from these free trade agreements is US jobs
Notice how all our jobs are going to India and China and the US middle class will soon be an endangered species while China's and India's middle class is growing
Jerseygirl Jen

You are correct, Jen, but it would be wrong to blame Indian and Chinese workers (mostly peasants who are finally ascending out of abject poverty) for unemployment in the United States. It is U.S. capital that is responsible.

For instance, it's fine that China is the main manufacturer of solar panels. The problem in the United States is that absent a national policy and the will to convert to this renewable energy source, the United States doesn't create the tens of thousands of jobs INSTALLING those panels. Our unemployment is a demand issue, not a supply issue.

[smc]

Originally Posted by ila

The US tried to take advantage of other countries thinking that the rest of the world is such a bunch of dumb rubes. The US sought to abrogate labour contracts and not any other country in NAFTA or the FTA.

Make no mistake: these agreements are designed as much to harm U.S. workers as much as anyone else.

Kudos for the correct use of the word "abrogate" -- something I don't see every day, or month, or year for that matter.

[smc]

Originally Posted by randolph

Yes, along with the WTO, we are determined to impose our will on the rest of the world and destroy independent self sufficiency in other countries. Its not all that different from slavery. Make everyone subject to the whim of corporate enterprises that can move their factories to the source of the cheapest labor.

Wow, did I really miss making my point that badly?!

I was talking about U.S. workers.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by smc

Wow, did I really miss making my point that badly?!

I was talking about U.S. workers.

Yes

I agreed with your point regarding American labor, I just took off on another aspect of the issue.
After WWII the unions were strong and the working class was able to join the middle class, buy a house, a car and have a family. Big business resented the power of unions and the Taft Hartley bill was passed and then came more "right to work" bills further weakening the unions. Since the 1970s the working class part of the middle class has just been treading water and going deeper into debt. The unions strongly supported the Democratic party and congressmen thereby providing a counter balance to the Repubs. This is gone now and both parties are beholden to corporate America.
I find it mystifying that corporate America is determined to destroy the middle class. These are the people that buy there stuff. A viable middle class is the heart of America. I don't understand it.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

ying that corporate America is determined to destroy the middle class. These are the people that buy there stuff. A viable middle class is the heart of America. I don't understand it.

Why would corporate America (your evil empire) be determined to destroy the middle class? That's the vast majority of their customers.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Why would corporate America (your evil empire) be determined to destroy the middle class? That's the vast majority of their customers.

Corporate America makes its money primarily in the capital markets (paper/fictitious money, but it works for them at least for now), not by selling goods to consumers.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Why would corporate America (your evil empire) be determined to destroy the middle class? That's the vast majority of their customers.

I don't think there is a conspiracy to destroy the middle class, it's that we don't have the protection in Congress that we used to have. Consequently, the upper classes have the power to bleed us of wealth we used to have.
Also, the middle class was sold on the idea that buying a house was an excellent way to invest for the future. Extremely easy credit was used to lure people into buying overpriced properties with the assurance that prices would continue to go up. What a con job! Most homeowners with these big mortgages are now underwater and will stay that way for years to come. What a horrible feelling that you paid $500,000 for a house that is now worth $250,000 and you owe $400,000. Are people in that situation going out and spending lots of money? Without consumer demand, the companies are not going to hire more workers.
The greedy banks and financial houses in cahoots with the federal government (Greenspan) have thoroughly fucked up our middle class economy, while the rich are sitting pretty.

[TracyCoxx]

Obama's plan to reduce the deficit includes $1.5 trillion in new taxes. He had his chance to lead before. The democrats and republicans left deficit reduction strategies up to the deficit super committee, which from what I've heard were not going to depend on new taxes. Did he forget about that?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Obama's plan to reduce the deficit includes $1.5 trillion in new taxes. He had his chance to lead before. The democrats and republicans left deficit reduction strategies up to the deficit super committee, which from what I've heard were not going to depend on new taxes. Did he forget about that?

There is no way on earth this massive deficit is going to get paid off without severe cuts to government spending and a reestablishment of an equable tax system that treats everybody fairly. We can start with the capital gains tax, make it progressive based on income. Yes, that would mean I would have to pay more taxes.