Thoughts on Today's Political Landscape

[GRH]

Just some random musings on the new "Jobs Bill" that Obama proposed. Tracy Coxx has insisted that we don't need more "stimulus." But what of the proposed payroll tax cuts? Was there ever a tax cut (except for green energy subsidies) that a Republican didn't like?

Personally, I feel it's reckless to steal money from Social Security given its long term trajectory. Rob Peter to pay Paul-- gladly have a hamburger today if I can pay you for it tomorrow. But Republican opposition to the payroll tax cut isn't rooted in this. If anything, Republicans would like policy that would make entitlements more likely to go bankrupt (that way they have an excuse to destroy the social safety net). No, any Republican opposition to the payroll tax cut proposal is rooted in the fact that they don't want to do ANYTHING that might help the economy (and by extension, possibly help Obama's reelection chances).

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by GRH

Just some random musings on the new "Jobs Bill" that Obama proposed. Tracy Coxx has insisted that we don't need more "stimulus." But what of the proposed payroll tax cuts? Was there ever a tax cut (except for green energy subsidies) that a Republican didn't like?

Tax cut?
Obama proposes tax hikes to pay for jobs bill
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-send-job...230355229.html

[transjen]

You know i'm getting sick and tired of listening to the GOP BS about the rich should never pay one red cent in taxes
For ten years they have been greedy pig hogging there money getting fatter and yet where are the jobs from these so called job creaturers?
The pigs have enjoying there cuts for oven ten years so by GOP logic this should be a jobs boom time and yet where are the jobs from the rich not paying taxes?
And the great trickle down BS the rich pay less taxes everyones life improves so after ten years of rich pigs not paying taxes way are so many Americans living under the poverity line?
I know Tracy will scream it's all BO's fault
But in trurh the Bush GOP policies are still in effect so we should be in the middle of a booming enconmy
And all eight GOP bozos answer is the same cut taxes do away with regulations trickle down all the way
And these are the same bozos who created this mess to start with starting with the deity R Reagan a brain dead two bit movie actor
Jerseygirl Jen

[smc]

Originally Posted by transjen

You know i'm getting sick and tired of listening to the GOP BS about the rich should never pay one red cent in taxes
For ten years they have been freedy pig hogging there money getting fatter and yet where are the jobs from these so called job creaturers?
The pigs have enjoying there cuts for oven ten years so by GOP logic this should be a jobs boom time and yet where are the jobs from the rich not paying taxes?
And the great trickle down BS the rich pay less taxes everyones life improves so after ten years of rich pigs not paying taxes way are so many Americans living under the poverity line?
I know Tracy will scream it's all BO's fault
But in trurh the Bush GOP policies are still in effect so we should be in the middle of a booming enconmy
And all eight GOP bozos answer is the same cut taxes do away with regulations trickle down all the way
And these are the same bozos who created this mess to start with starting with the deity R Reagan a brain dead two bit movie actor
Jerseygirl Jen

C'mon, Jen, they've created lots of jobs ... for lobbyists to carry some of the extra windfall cash the shameful tax cuts have given them into the offices of politicians of both parties and distribute it in unmarked envelopes.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by transjen

You know i'm getting sick and tired of listening to the GOP BS about the rich should never pay one red cent in taxes
For ten years they have been greedy pig hogging there money getting fatter and yet where are the jobs from these so called job creaturers?
The pigs have enjoying there cuts for oven ten years so by GOP logic this should be a jobs boom time and yet where are the jobs from the rich not paying taxes?
And the great trickle down BS the rich pay less taxes everyones life improves so after ten years of rich pigs not paying taxes way are so many Americans living under the poverity line?
I know Tracy will scream it's all BO's fault
But in trurh the Bush GOP policies are still in effect so we should be in the middle of a booming enconmy
And all eight GOP bozos answer is the same cut taxes do away with regulations trickle down all the way
And these are the same bozos who created this mess to start with starting with the deity R Reagan a brain dead two bit movie actor
Jerseygirl Jen

Hey Jen, you should be Obama's press manager.
You are saying the things he should be saying.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

You know i'm getting sick and tired of listening to the GOP BS about the rich should never pay one red cent in taxes

...

I know Tracy will scream it's all BO's fault

No, Tracy will say "I didn't realize the GOP were saying that. You're right. That is wrong for the rich not to pay one red cent in taxes."

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

No, Tracy will say "I didn't realize the GOP were saying that. You're right. That is wrong for the rich not to pay one red cent in taxes."

Let's take a stab at the civil discussion we've been talking about elsewhere.

What do you think is a reasonable breakdown of tax rates based on income levels? For instance, should we go back to the rates that existed during the Clinton Administration, or keep them as is with the so-called "Bush tax cuts" that Obama agreed to extend? If you are for a flat tax, I urge you not to re-open that discussion, but simply refer us to earlier postings.

Also, what about corporate tax rates? Should all corporations pay taxes? Should loopholes that create the known situation in which many of the largest corporations in the United States pay no income tax be shut?

Most important, please motivate your answer. What is the reasoning behind the answers you give.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by smc

What do you think is a reasonable breakdown of tax rates based on income levels? For instance, should we go back to the rates that existed during the Clinton Administration, or keep them as is with the so-called "Bush tax cuts" that Obama agreed to extend? If you are for a flat tax, I urge you not to re-open that discussion, but simply refer us to earlier postings.

It was discussed here.

Originally Posted by smc

Also, what about corporate tax rates? Should all corporations pay taxes? Should loopholes that create the known situation in which many of the largest corporations in the United States pay no income tax be shut?

I haven't thought a lot about corporate tax rates, so my opinion probably isn't worth much and I'm sure plenty of holes can be shot through it because it's a huge issue and like I've said I haven't thought a lot about it. Tax on corporations include income tax, employment taxes and excise taxes correct?

All these taxes are passed on to and actually paid by customers, employees, suppliers, and shareholders. Many of these people are already paying income tax or sales tax so it seems that in taxing a corporation, the government is really potentially taxing customers, employees, suppliers, and shareholders twice, which I don't think is right. Excise taxes is a very thorny issue. Some of it is probably warranted, other parts of it, I don't think so.

One opinion I am sure of is that corporations shouldn't be taxed to the point where they are not competitive against foreign businesses. Otherwise the corporations will relocate some or all of their work to other countries and drive their economy instead of ours.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

... I haven't thought a lot about corporate tax rates, so my opinion probably isn't worth much and I'm sure plenty of holes can be shot through it because it's a huge issue and like I've said I haven't thought a lot about it. Tax on corporations include income tax, employment taxes and excise taxes correct?

All these taxes are passed on to and actually paid by customers, employees, suppliers, and shareholders. Many of these people are already paying income tax or sales tax so it seems that in taxing a corporation, the government is really potentially taxing customers, employees, suppliers, and shareholders twice, which I don't think is right. Excise taxes is a very thorny issue. Some of it is probably warranted, other parts of it, I don't think so.

One opinion I am sure of is that corporations shouldn't be taxed to the point where they are not competitive against foreign businesses. Otherwise the corporations will relocate some or all of their work to other countries and drive their economy instead of ours.

This sounds like an argument either for no taxes (or very little) on corporations, or for price controls. I am sure it's not the latter. Please elaborate on this question: is it reasonable in theory to tax profits? If so, what might be done to prevent the burden of such a tax from being passed onto to consumers? Do you believe, as Ron Paul might state, that the "market" can be counted on to solve all things?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

It was discussed here.

I haven't thought a lot about corporate tax rates, so my opinion probably isn't worth much and I'm sure plenty of holes can be shot through it because it's a huge issue and like I've said I haven't thought a lot about it. Tax on corporations include income tax, employment taxes and excise taxes correct?

All these taxes are passed on to and actually paid by customers, employees, suppliers, and shareholders. Many of these people are already paying income tax or sales tax so it seems that in taxing a corporation, the government is really potentially taxing customers, employees, suppliers, and shareholders twice, which I don't think is right. Excise taxes is a very thorny issue. Some of it is probably warranted, other parts of it, I don't
think so.

One opinion I am sure of is that corporations shouldn't be taxed to the point where they are not competitive against foreign businesses. Otherwise the corporations will relocate some or all of their work to other countries and drive their economy instead of ours.

There is some logic in just taxing just individuals. Of course corporations and individuals would have to be closely monitored to prevent cheating. Also the capital gains tax would also have to be progressive instead of a mere 15%.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Tax cut?
Obama proposes tax hikes to pay for jobs bill
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-send-job...230355229.html

Read the story carefully, all.

As Obama said in his speech, there is a proposal to cut payroll taxes in half, to 3.1 percent. That is a "tax cut."

As for the tax increases, the are:

- an increase on the tax rate for the wealthy;
- an increase in taxes for the energy corporations that are raking in billions in profits;
- the elimination of some loopholes in the tax code for those making over $200,000 per year.

So, yes, it will be paid in part by a tax increase. And to those who will feel the impact of these increases (and their apologists), in our country where the number of people living in poverty grows each day along with the embarrassing gap in income between the richest and the poorest, I say boo-fucking-hoo.