Middle East

[ila]

The arrogance of the US president is absolutely galling to me. How dare he tell Mubarak to step down. How would Obama like it if a politician from another country phoned him and told him to step down?

(And yes, I know Mubarak has already stepped down.)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ila

The arrogance of the US president is absolutely galling to me. How dare he tell Mubarak to step down. How would Obama like it if a politician from another country phoned him and told him to step down?

(And yes, I know Mubarak has already stepped down.)

Are you being sarcastic or...

[ila]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Are you being sarcastic or...

No, I am not being sarcastic. Egypt's internal affairs are for Egyptians to solve and not for politicians from other countries telling the leader of Egypt what he should or should not do, especially since advice was not solicited.

Obama should sort out his own country and problems before spouting off about what other countries and leaders should do. It's sheer bloody arrogance to for one to stick his nose into the affairs of another country.

[smc]

Originally Posted by ila

The arrogance of the US president is absolutely galling to me. How dare he tell Mubarak to step down. How would Obama like it if a politician from another country phoned him and told him to step down?

(And yes, I know Mubarak has already stepped down.)

Originally Posted by ila

No, I am not being sarcastic. Egypt's internal affairs are for Egyptians to solve and not for politicians from other countries telling the leader of Egypt what he should or should not do, especially since advice was not solicited.

Obama should sort out his own country and problems before spouting off about what other countries and leaders should do. It's sheer bloody arrogance to for one to stick his nose into the affairs of another country.

I agree with you, ila, that the United States should keep its nose out of the affairs of other countries. However, Egypt has been a "client state" of the United States for three decades. The Egyptian government and military are bought and paid for by the United States. In a sense, isn't Obama simply requesting the resignation of an employee of the United States, for cause? I mean that with seriousness.

Now, when the United States blockades a country and demands its leader go, as with Cuba, or intervenes via the CIA to overthrow an elected president, as in Chile, or ... any number of other actions ... I think that's even worse.

I'm not defending Obama, but simply pointing to the reality of the boss-employee relationship.

[ila]

Originally Posted by smc

I agree with you, ila, that the United States should keep its nose out of the affairs of other countries. However, Egypt has been a "client state" of the United States for three decades. The Egyptian government and military are bought and paid for by the United States. In a sense, isn't Obama simply requesting the resignation of an employee of the United States, for cause? I mean that with seriousness.
Now, when the United States blockades a country and demands its leader go, as with Cuba, or intervenes via the CIA to overthrow an elected president, as in Chile, or ... any number of other actions ... I think that's even worse.

I'm not defending Obama, but simply pointing to the reality of the boss-employee relationship.

The US did not buy the government and military of Egypt. The US paid bribe money to Egypt to maintain friendly relations with Israel. Egypt was at one time a regional leader and as such the US policy was to find an Arab country that would be friendly towards the US. It was also a chance to lure away a country that was on friendly terms and in fact under the influence of the Soviet Union. To describe the US-Egypt relationship as an employer-employee relationship is wrong.

[smc]

Originally Posted by ila

The US did not buy the government and military of Egypt. The US paid bribe money to Egypt to maintain friendly relations with Israel. Egypt was at one time a regional leader and as such the US policy was to find an Arab country that would be friendly towards the US. It was also a chance to lure away a country that was on friendly terms and in fact under the influence of the Soviet Union. To describe the US-Egypt relationship as an employer-employee relationship is wrong.

You are correct, ila, but so am I. It is not as simple as I expressed it, nor as simple as did you. The truth lies in a combination of the two. At first, "luring" was the strategy. But once the bait was set, I think it became something very different. By the way, every leader of the Egyptian military was trained at a U.S. service academy. The United States provides all the military hardware for Egypt.

The more important point in my post was about what constitutes interference in the internal affairs of another country. For the United States, the methods are myriad.

[randolph]

Prior to WWII we were strongly isolationist as a country. the attack in Pearl Harbor changed that. As the war concluded it became obvious that the Soviet Union was becoming a threat to Western countries. Some of our generals proposed war to destroy that threat.
As an alternative, John Foster Dulles, Eisenhower's Sec. of State established the "containment" plan to surround the Soviet Union with military bases in countries friendly to us. This was the beginning of the cold war. We now have military bases in over fifty countries. We quickly realized this policy was an excellent way to make those countries dependent on military equipment and training. It also facilitated control over their economies that favored American companies. So we have economic tentacles around the world. The Soviet empire was contained but more importantly, the US empire controlled the world economically.
I am sure SMC can point out historically, that we treat out client states rather harshly if they don't toe the line and favor our corporate interests. The banana trade is a classic example. Destruction of any government that doesn't conform to our economic policies has been routine policy.
The revolution in Egypt is bound to have major effect on our policies. It demonstrates the hypocrisy of our words. And the fragility of our client states. It's about time we really support Democracy not just empty rhetoric.