Liberal free for all coming to an end

[randolph]

A Federal judge has struck down Obamacare as unconstitutional, based on the stipulation that everyone must have healthcare or be fined. Since that requirement cannot be modified, the entire bill is struck down. He stated Congress does not have the authority to require people to have health insurance.
A single payer system, like Canada's would have avoided this problem.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

A Federal judge has struck down Obamacare as unconstitutional, based on the stipulation that everyone must have healthcare or be fined. Since that requirement cannot be modified, the entire bill is struck down. He stated Congress does not have the authority to require people to have health insurance.
A single payer system, like Canada's would have avoided this problem.

Any objective person knew that Obamacare violated the Constitution. Yet Obama and the House & Senate all charged ahead with passing Obamacare anyway. Why? Are they really that out of touch with the Constitution and the American people? Isn't Egypt looking for a new dictator? Let's send them all there.

[Hedonistman]

All I can say is that I've never met any doctor in the US who was not in it for the money. I'm sure there are some,,, possibly even many, but I produced health care and related teleplays for the health care industry, and this quote from a recognizied top shelf surgeon, I think says it best " my patients are the stupidiest people I've ever met'. There will never be true reform until those who are sick can decide for themselves, how best to treat (spend on) their illnesses. No 3rd party system will ever approach self determination, about anything.

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by Hedonistman

All I can say is that I've never met any doctor in the US who was not in it for the money. I'm sure there are some,,, possibly even many, but I produced health care and related teleplays for the health care industry, and this quote from a recognizied top shelf surgeon, I think says it best " my patients are the stupidiest people I've ever met'. There will never be true reform until those who are sick can decide for themselves, how best to treat (spend on) their illnesses. No 3rd party system will ever approach self determination, about anything.

american should be able to seek other forms of medical treatment, other drugs and surgery for things. I seen parents threatened if they did not make their cancer stricken kids take chemo and radiation.....one teenager was forced by a judge to take it, despite the fact he did not want to....luckily public outcry forced this stupid (and pay off, I bet) judge to change his decision. Many of these people, ie politicians or FDA people, after leaving their current line of work, go on to be either lobbyists or the heads of various big pharma. And before some of you people (I've been hounded for saying this on both hung angels and hung devils), who most likely invest in pharma stocks, that some drugs and surgery can be useful and helpful...but there are many, many that don't work and are harmful.....like viox and avandia....the latter of which, I think, killed my dad....are poisons just made to make a quick buck (they make millions, if not billions off this stuff before they pull it off the market) and many scientists were bribed or threatened not to tell of the dangers. And that fat fuck, John Engler, the former MI governor, made it illegal to sue drug companies here....even if they are at fault.

People should be given choices on how to treat themselves, not not be limited to one or two. Anyone else agree with me on this, or am I just a misfit, more so?

[smc]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

People should be given choices on how to treat themselves, not not be limited to one or two. Anyone else agree with me on this, or am I just a misfit, more so?

The pharmaceutical firms are, from a business standpoint, reprehensible profiteers who put profits ahead of everything.

To be forced to undergo certain treatments happens, but it is hardly the norm anywhere in the U.S. medical system. You really need to stop generalizing everything, Trogdor. When you see something you oppose, you can write about it without making it bigger than it really is. That only diminishes the value of your points and makes it easier for others to dismiss them.

However, separate from the pharma issue, who should pay when people show up at the emergency room with no insurance and needing care to reverse their "self-treatment" or their choices that may have been contrary to medical advice?

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by smc

The pharmaceutical firms are, from a business standpoint, reprehensible profiteers who put profits ahead of everything.

To be forced to undergo certain treatments happens, but it is hardly the norm anywhere in the U.S. medical system. You really need to stop generalizing everything, Trogdor. When you see something you oppose, you can write about it without making it bigger than it really is. That only diminishes the value of your points and makes it easier for others to dismiss them.

I am NOT generalizing.
Medical schools are run and operated by big pharma, and people, especially kids have been forced to undergo things like Chemo or vaccinations, with threats of social services after the parents and take away the kids. Also, when a cure, a legit cure, made of something that can not be patented, such as an herb or a mineral or something pretty much get silenced. Hell, the so-called war on cancer stared by Nixon in 1971 is a loosing battle, and with all these decades of making billions in cancer research shows to me there's going to be no cure, until someone finally puts pharma in its place.....


.....our paid bitches looking for real cures.....and if loosing profits because people can live longer, be healthy and not miserable....then pharma people simply need to, as John McCain said to disgruntled auto workers in 2000, to "find another job". Things like B17, apricots and apple seeds, sodium bicarbonate (baking soda to any joe sixpack....which is good, an anti acid, which is great to kill cancer) and so on can easily kill a cancer and save someone. Making one's body alkali switches off cancer production, pretty much telling the cancer cells to go fuck themselves.

FDA even had the AUDACITY to send a letter to the CEO of Diamond Walnuts and said they are in trouble because they had health benefits of walnuts on the package, including the fighting cancer, and because the packages said they can help fight cancer, the walnuts automatically became a 'drug' (Because the FDA said "Only a DRUG can treat an illness" and anything said, even a food, becomes a drug if aid to fight illness) and Diamond was found guilty of selling drugs without a license. Land of the free my white ass. Look it up for yourself if you don't believe me.
Shit, mammograms cause cancer......heat imaging is safe....no radiation damage and more accurate. Cat scans are horrible. The guy who made the prostate PSA test i saying it's not safe or effective. Hell, those trucks that haul fluoride, the same in dental care and drinking water have skull and cross bones...makes no sense to me to use a confirmed poison poison into drinking water and whatnot. It's like someone wants to make sure everyone stays sick.

FDA = Big Pharma's police force. I call them the health care mafia.

And if you want proof, I say go do a little independent research (mainstream medias are often sponsored by drug companies, so make it independent)

[smc]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

I am NOT generalizing.
Medical schools are run and operated by big pharma, and people, especially kids have been forced to undergo things like Chemo or vaccinations, with threats of social services after the parents and take away the kids. Also, when a cure, a legit cure, made of something that can not be patented, such as an herb or a mineral or something pretty much get silenced. Hell, the so-called war on cancer stared by Nixon in 1971 is a loosing battle, and with all these decades of making billions in cancer research shows to me there's going to be no cure, until someone finally puts pharma in its place.....


.....our paid bitches looking for real cures.....and if loosing profits because people can live longer, be healthy and not miserable....then pharma people simply need to, as John McCain said to disgruntled auto workers in 2000, to "find another job". Things like B17, apricots and apple seeds, sodium bicarbonate (baking soda to any joe sixpack....which is good, an anti acid, which is great to kill cancer) and so on can easily kill a cancer and save someone. Making one's body alkali switches off cancer production, pretty much telling the cancer cells to go fuck themselves.

FDA even had the AUDACITY to send a letter to the CEO of Diamond Walnuts and said they are in trouble because they had health benefits of walnuts on the package, including the fighting cancer, and because the packages said they can help fight cancer, the walnuts automatically became a 'drug' (Because the FDA said "Only a DRUG can treat an illness" and anything said, even a food, becomes a drug if aid to fight illness) and Diamond was found guilty of selling drugs without a license. Land of the free my white ass. Look it up for yourself if you don't believe me.
Shit, mammograms cause cancer......heat imaging is safe....no radiation damage and more accurate. Cat scans are horrible. The guy who made the prostate PSA test i saying it's not safe or effective. Hell, those trucks that haul fluoride, the same in dental care and drinking water have skull and cross bones...makes no sense to me to use a confirmed poison poison into drinking water and whatnot. It's like someone wants to make sure everyone stays sick.

FDA = Big Pharma's police force. I call them the health care mafia.

And if you want proof, I say go do a little independent research (mainstream medias are often sponsored by drug companies, so make it independent)

I will let other moderators address your last point. I've put in bold what I will address here.

You write that you don't generalize, and then you proceed to make a ridiculous generalization. There is no doubt that the evil hand of the pharmaceutical companies runs rampant in many medical schools. But by generalizing, you impugn every doctor and medical student at these schools. At medical schools such as those where I live, there is a continuing ethical battle the hand of pharma and the work of the school. It plays out in public with commissions and rules and rewriting of rules and lawsuits and so on. It plays out behind the scenes in students' lives -- I know some of them -- who get lucrative summer positions (summer positions with hospitals and pharma firms are a key perk of medical school) and others risking their financial stability to refuse to work for pharma.

To write a generalization like "medical schools are run and operated by big pharma" is not a generalization makes it difficult to take seriously everything else you write. Which is too bad.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Any objective person knew that Obamacare violated the Constitution. Yet Obama and the House & Senate all charged ahead with passing Obamacare anyway. Why? Are they really that out of touch with the Constitution and the American people? Isn't Egypt looking for a new dictator? Let's send them all there.

The level of generalization is just so ridiculous as to be almost dismissable, were it not for the danger inherent in these generalizations. ANY OBJECTIVE PERSON? Give me a fuckin' break.

First off, the ruling is only about the "individual mandate" clause. Second, it's open to judicial interpretation ... the basis of how the system works. You are so hell-bent on seeing your views vindicated that you don't even stop to think about the full story.

The courts have given wide latitude to Congress to regulate markets, and that's what the individual mandate is about. The logic -- whether you agree with the law or not - is that a person without coverage who is hospitalized might run up huge medical bills that then would be absorbed by others with insurance or by taxpayers.

That one judge in a particular jurisidiction noted for a particular politican bent makes a ruling is no cause for such hyperbole. But it's what we've come to expect from you, Tracy, just like equating Congress with a dictatorship. In Egypt, 30 years of dictatorship has had the kind of consequences for people that you make a mockery of with your false equivalency.

It does, though, point once again to the underlying vitriol in your views that seems to make it impossible for you to sustain a rational discussion for more than a post or two.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by smc

The level of generalization is just so ridiculous as to be almost dismissable

I thought you'd get a kick out of that. I know I can count on you not to dismiss it though.

[TracyCoxx]

btw about the dictator comment, if I see a government that has a supermajority and uses that as a go-ahead to ram something as big as nationalized health care through when the public is telling them to stop then I call it as I see it. Yes they had a vote, but that was merely a formality.

[franalexes]

Two months ago the Democrat Attourney General of Maine said we did not have a case in the lawsuit against Obamacare.
Since our new Republican Governor joined the suit, and yesterdays decission, the news is NOT on the front page of the local paper ( blantantly Democrat) but tucked away inside on the health page. Now ain't that odd?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Any objective person knew that Obamacare violated the Constitution. Yet Obama and the House & Senate all charged ahead with passing Obamacare anyway. Why? Are they really that out of touch with the Constitution and the American people? Isn't Egypt looking for a new dictator? Let's send them all there.

Because of the stranglehold of the healthcare industry, a national healthcare plan could not support itself unless everybody was paying into it. The young people who had minimal healthcare needs would support us olderfolks who need more care.
The only way we can have a "free" national healthcare plan is for the government to run it as a single payer and get the greedy profit obsessed healthcare providers out of it. Yes, it would be expensive. Restoring the Bush tax cuts would be take care of it, however.

[Rainrider]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Any objective person knew that Obamacare violated the Constitution. Yet Obama and the House & Senate all charged ahead with passing Obamacare anyway. Why? Are they really that out of touch with the Constitution and the American people? Isn't Egypt looking for a new dictator? Let's send them all there.

Got to love it. LOL