A Glossary of Terms

[k.sucks.you]

I don't mean to offend anyone. I see these terms bandied about and simply want clear definitions, if they exist.

For example, what's the difference between a "shemale" and a "femboy"? I'll guess that they're both M2F, only the how one self-identifies. One being female, the other male.

Some of those terms are certainly derogatory, but maybe can be used casually among friends.

-K

[smc]

Originally Posted by k.sucks.you

I don't mean to offend anyone. I see these terms bandied about and simply want clear definitions, if they exist.

For example, what's the difference between a "shemale" and a "femboy"? I'll guess that they're both M2F, only the how one self-identifies. One being female, the other male.

Some of those terms are certainly derogatory, but maybe can be used casually among friends.

-K

Two things I can say with absolute certainty.

1. There are no "clear definitions" of such terms, if by clear you mean universally accepted. Simply look at the "femboys" thread and check out the discussion about what that term means, and you will realize the near impossibility of developing clear definitions.

2. Related to the first, because these are terms of identity and self-identity, there is no way to avoid offense in some, or many, cases.

[Mel Asher]

Originally Posted by smc

Two things I can say with absolute certainty.

1. There are no "clear definitions" of such terms, if by clear you mean universally accepted. Simply look at the "femboys" thread and check out the discussion about what that term means, and you will realize the near impossibility of developing clear definitions.

2. Related to the first, because these are terms of identity and self-identity, there is no way to avoid offense in some, or many, cases.

I fully agree, especially smc's second point. It is easy to give offence without meaning to, although you cannot make allowances for individuals who are unduly oversensitive.

What I cannot understand, though is why the questioner has made no attempt at all to do his own research - in Wikipedia, for example, and expects to get clear definitions from other forum members who may well have strong views on such terminology.

Not a good subject for a new thread I feel, when so many views have already been expressed by many members, all of which can be accessed with a little searching.

Sorry but go !

[ila]

^ Thankyou, Mel. Those are all very good points.

[k.sucks.you]

Originally Posted by Mel Asher

What I cannot understand, though is why the questioner has made no attempt at all to do his own research - in Wikipedia, for example, and expects to get clear definitions from other forum members who may well have strong views on such terminology.

How do you know I haven't searched? How do you know I haven't asked people? How do you know I haven't Wikipedia or other references?

In fact, the "femboy" thread, and an ongoing 4chan debate, got me started thinking about this. In fact there are many conflicting definitions for these and other terms. Did you expect me to post MY definitions? Wouldn't that skew the posts that followed?

I was seeking clarity from those people here who might know better. Nevermind. I think that "smc" is right, there simply are no clear definitions that everyone might agree upon or even understand. (Thanks "smc".)

I still believe it was entirely appropriate to ask here, although it seems it isn't going to help me or anyone else.

-K

[smc]

Originally Posted by k.sucks.you

How do you know I haven't searched? How do you know I haven't asked people? How do you know I haven't Wikipedia or other references?

In fact, the "femboy" thread, and an ongoing 4chan debate, got me started thinking about this. In fact there are many conflicting definitions for these and other terms. Did you expect me to post MY definitions? Wouldn't that skew the posts that followed?

I was seeking clarity from those people here who might know better. Nevermind. I think that "smc" is right, there simply are no clear definitions that everyone might agree upon or even understand. (Thanks "smc".)

I still believe it was entirely appropriate to ask here, although it seems it isn't going to help me or anyone else.

-K

A few points of clarification/agreement, and a question:

1. I agree that there was no indication that you hadn't already done some searching. I don't think Mel Asher's point was meant to come across as it did. It strikes me as having been posed more as a rhetorical question.

2. Posting your own definitions, if it was done in a manner that supported discussion in the interest of consensus, wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Most people react in a more useful way to specific things you give them to think about rather than when you ask far more open-ended questions. Nevertheless, I do not think consensus will be reached. I'd love to be proven wrong.

3. The reason I don't think consensus will be reached is that there really are not "people here who might know better." Why? Because we are talking about terms of self-identity, and hence one person's "better" is another person's offensive term. To the degree any of us may know a little bit better, I think it is limited to when we insist on respect and defer to the self-identity of others. (Hence all the posts and even an entire thread about "ungendering.")

4. Why do you put my username in quotation marks? Just wondering.

[k.sucks.you]

Originally Posted by smc

3. The reason I don't think consensus will be reached is that there really are not "people here who might know better." Why? Because we are talking about terms of self-identity, and hence one person's "better" is another person's offensive term. To the degree any of us may know a little bit better, I think it is limited to when we insist on respect and defer to the self-identity of others. (Hence all the posts and even an entire thread about "ungendering.")

4. Why do you put my username in quotation marks? Just wondering.

Three: seems the truth...

Four: I suppose I should have made it bold or a link to your profile or something. Just making it stand out. No offense.

-K

[smc]

Originally Posted by k.sucks.you

Three: seems the truth...

Four: I suppose I should have made it bold or a link to your profile or something. Just making it stand out. No offense.

-K

None taken. I assumed it was for emphasis. It is a commonly used method for emphasizing, but actually does something else. (Sorry, that's the writing professor in me coming out.)