Is there a bias against those still in the closet?

[valentinetabitha]

The last few months I've noticed something very interesting as I've tried to meet people online. All the time I see "No face pic, not interested" posted on people's profiles. Why such a bias?

Some of us don't have the luxury of outting ourselves right now. I do as much as I can with my Yahoo avatar and all, but I just can't risk taking pictures, especially of my face, at the moment. Given that so many others have been in this position as well, why is it so hard to understand?

[Carolts]

I think this has more to do with the dangers we all face rather than any bias, and its always nice to see who you're chatting to.Some times I dont add people on facebook if they havent got a photo, or if their photo is of a car, then they must be a transformer!!

[franalexes]

Tabitha;
chat or pm any time you want to.

[valentinetabitha]

Originally Posted by PurpleDressCD

Probably because there are enough horny men out there that if someone claims that they are something that isn't strictly a man (like a transvestite or transsexual) and they don't have the pictures to prove it, it's just assumed that they aren't who they say they are. The old 4Chan adage "The Internet: where men are men, and women are men, and 14yo girls are FBI agents" seems to apply in this intstance.

Although, having pictures doesn't necessarily prove they are who they say they are either. Because they could have just taken the pictures from somewhere else on the web. But, there is a decent chance that they'd be called out on it given there are enough people on this forum who look at a ton of TS/TV/CD pictures and would recognize it from somewhere.

I do see that point. I have less of an issue here, moreso on MySpace. So many profiles say "No face, no add" and then in their About section it says they are straight and married, but a CD. I message them asking how they handle it (b/c I'm in the same situation, albeit I'm bisexual) and just get ignored like I'm just another horny freak. Seems a little prickish to me.

Originally Posted by franalexes

Tabitha;
chat or pm any time you want to.

Thanks, Fran! Will do

[no1000]

I also definitely think it has to deal with backing who you say you are. If you say you are this person then you must have several pictures of yourself. Me personally I will gravitate towards a person who sends me face pictures than body pictures. The human face is a very personal feature of the body and IMO is more important than the genitalia of the person I am talking with.

[valentinetabitha]

Originally Posted by no1000

I also definitely think it has to deal with backing who you say you are. If you say you are this person then you must have several pictures of yourself. Me personally I will gravitate towards a person who sends me face pictures than body pictures. The human face is a very personal feature of the body and IMO is more important than the genitalia of the person I am talking with.

While I completely agree that a face pic is great, the irony of safety on the Internet is that by not providing a face, you are being safer. I don't have the luxury of taking that risk, not yet at least. Would I love to, certainly, but the consequences of something going wrong are massive and life altering in a way that makes it not worth it.

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by valentinetabitha

The last few months I've noticed something very interesting as I've tried to meet people online. All the time I see "No face pic, not interested" posted on people's profiles. Why such a bias?

Some of us don't have the luxury of outting ourselves right now. I do as much as I can with my Yahoo avatar and all, but I just can't risk taking pictures, especially of my face, at the moment. Given that so many others have been in this position as well, why is it so hard to understand?

Yes there is a bias.
Why?
Well its about commitment.
Every single one of us does have the luxury of outting ourselves right now.

We all face the same sacrifices & loss of "Male privilege"
see:
wiki male_privilege

Julia Serano, a transsexual woman who's awesome book, Whipping Girl Transsexual Scapegoating of Femininity goes into this.
An interview with julia

Those who walk the walk {& usually sacrificed everything to do so} don't like being put in the same genra as part-timers, or weekend warriors.


I personally see why that view prevails,
Though its a bit "up your own arse"
Let me elaborate:
On another Trans forum, one of my best friends, Evil Helen {After a year calling her that, she now uses it as her handle!} quoted the number of members of the site:
[URL="http://www.tvchix.com/forum/topic.php?tid=52951&page=1"]

Ms_Evil said:

You have been a member for 5 years yet still have not realised that this is fantasyland

91767 members of which the last 2 numbers are higher than the real Ts's on here :11

I represent myself this week {It changes a lot!} as a panty wearer doing it in secret, behind my imaginary wife's back,
...along with tasteful photos of my legs & some knickers lying on the ground...well artistic.

I went into the chat room for girls only {remember this is a tg site, mainly for cd's / tv's} And they all shouted at me ....saying "no men!"

All fucking barking.
Am I the only sane one on the net? Quack! ....

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by Carolts

I think this has more to do with the dangers we all face rather than any bias, and its always nice to see who you're chatting to.Some times I dont add people on facebook if they havent got a photo, or if their photo is of a car, then they must be a transformer!!

Yea!
Totally rock n' roll
You mean robots like this?

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by PurpleDressCD

I'm going to have to say that I take the opposite opinion of the theory of male privilege. In Western countries I'd say that females usually have the upper hand.

So, let me get this right,
you want to present as a man,
get all the privilege that this brings
society standing,
60% more pay than a M2F Transsexual gets {if they can even get a job}
Acceptance, family, friends
pension scheme.
not undergo costly & painful surgurys,
meds for life,
And so on.

My point is male privilage over status or lack of, that a Ts person has
...not comparison with a Day-1 female
which is a totally different topic
outside this post
or indeed this site.

Interesting you tube vid, though.

[valentinetabitha]

Jodie, are you saying we all have to fit inside a predefined box of transsexuality, that it is impossible for someone to be happy dressing as a male and a female?

You are exactly the type of person I have a problem with. Just because I don't suffer through all of the hardships you do doesn't mean I should be outcast. I'm sorry I'm not as brave or willing to sacrifice half of my life for the other half. Silly me.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by valentinetabitha

The last few months I've noticed something very interesting as I've tried to meet people online. All the time I see "No face pic, not interested" posted on people's profiles. Why such a bias?

Some of us don't have the luxury of outting ourselves right now. I do as much as I can with my Yahoo avatar and all, but I just can't risk taking pictures, especially of my face, at the moment. Given that so many others have been in this position as well, why is it so hard to understand?

I wonder why they care so much if a person posts a picture of themselves in the first place? It's not like they would know if someone was using a picture of someone other than themselves, right?

And you can't judge a person by their Avatar alone. They could look really hot in the Avatar, but they could be a totally vapid individual or a total sleazeball.

I get what you are saying, and I agree that there are cases of bias online. However, I think that the people that are more interested in getting to know the person outnumber the people that are only interested if "pictures are attached". Idiotic sites like "Hot or Not" are the exception.

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by PurpleDressCD

I agree that transsexuals go through a lot. I wasn't saying that they don't or that people who choose to stay the gender they were born don't have it a lot easier than those that do.

I was just saying that I wouldn't exactly call it male privilege. When females also enjoy the same privilege. I'd call it "non-transsexual privilege" if anything.

That really appeals
[the term, not the reality]
as its spot on the money.

Though a lot of the ts angst about society rejection
I project in some posts
is repeating what other ts's experience.

I actually feel empowered, by being able to be myself,
never been happier
kept my parents
My brother will never accept me as Misha,
which does my girlfriends head in >>>on the basis of:
"so when he looks at you, how can he see anything other than a beautiful woman?"
which is actually good
coz he only sees me as his sibling
and my trans has not impacted that. He is as close to me as ever
we still hang out go for Indians, chill with his family or just natter in his allotment.
In other words, all good,
Kept most of my pre trans friends...lost not through rejection but coz they couldn't handle it
& made a ton of newer friends....some of who are so close, && as special as can be.
No society rejection, positive in early transition days...
...to neutral now coz I appear to be just another Day-1 woman,
rather than an ex-bloke
...all good then

Still, a lot of trans talk about & undoubtedly experience a range of negativity
from society in general
& it seems a pity to let that pain go to waste...

I probably don't come out too well in this post,
but in my defence,
Darth Vader had a better theme tune to Luke Skywalker.
click here

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by valentinetabitha

Jodie, are you saying we all have to fit inside a predefined box of transsexuality, that it is impossible for someone to be happy dressing as a male and a female?

You are exactly the type of person I have a problem with. Just because I don't suffer through all of the hardships you do doesn't mean I should be outcast. I'm sorry I'm not as brave or willing to sacrifice half of my life for the other half. Silly me.

No thats not what I'm saying
I answered your post

If you want the same interactions with people
that ts's who walk-the-walk have,
then walk the walk.

I had exactly the same choices that you have
exactly the same.
I chose what was best for me
and live with the consequences

I suggest you do as well.

[JodieTs]

No photo = A lack of honesty/integrity
That is often peoples perceptions on forums/chat rooms.
Not mine
After all, I'm interacting with you
{lucky you}


from your myspace profile:
Blurbs
About me:
I'm a married, bisexual, occasional crossdresser
http://www.myspace.com/tabithavalentine

How does your wife feel about you having sex with other men?
She does know, yes?

[no1000]

From his posts I do not think his wife knows.

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by no1000

From his posts I do not think his wife knows.

Smiles.

But on another point.
It's good form on a trans-forum,
to use the female pronoun, if the person represents themselves as female.
In valentinetabitha's case, "her"

[smc]

Originally Posted by JodieTs

Smiles.

But on another point.
It's good form on a trans-forum,
to use the female pronoun, if the person represents themselves as female.
In valentinetabitha's case, "her"

Excellent point, Jodie: "good form" and a sign of respect, which we expect to be shown to all members on this site.

[no1000]

Will take that advice into consideration for next time. Thanks Jodie.

[valentinetabitha]

Originally Posted by JodieTs

No photo = A lack of honesty/integrity
How does your wife feel about you having sex with other men?
She does know, yes?
[/COLOR]

She knows I'm bisexual, but is unaware of the crossdressing aspect. I have to handle this in steps because she isn't exactly the most open-minded person.

In fact a big reason why I asked my initial question is I found when I went to ask people who have been in my situation, and have since come out to their wives, for advice I found myself rejected or met with ignored friend requests.

I can see why those that are fully out can see me as half-assing it, but at the same time every person's situation is different. In my case, I don't want to live my entire life as a woman, but others do. Dressing as a woman, and the desire to perform sexual acts in the, traditionally, woman's role is only one part of my life, and it isn't even the dominant part. I don't feel like I should be compartmentalized or ostracized for feeling that way.

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by valentinetabitha

She knows I'm bisexual, but is unaware of the crossdressing aspect. I have to handle this in steps because she isn't exactly the most open-minded person.

Well she would be very pissed at you at the very least
In a large part for concealing this from her
as honesty is a large part of marriage.
You are not alone on this as almost all tv's conceal this HUGE aspect about themselves.
Thats why I have no wife / ex wife or children...I refused to meet society/family/partners expectations without full disclosure about me>>>>& how the hell do you disclose something about yourself that you don't really understand?

Now wherever you stand on the tg spectrum (& that can be fluid)
You will be like most people just trying to find the best way for you,
to keep the world in balance.

We are in very different places
so I would not be able nor experienced in stuff like yours
to offer any useful coping strategies
which is what you seek.

On the bi-tv/cd/wife thing....no answer for you on open forum
as this is far too deep with too many ramifications for you
But useful for you to chat with others who were in the same place as you.
PM sent.

Originally Posted by valentinetabitha

I can see why those that are fully out can see me as half-assing it, but at the same time every person's situation is different. In my case, I don't want to live my entire life as a woman, but others do. Dressing as a woman, and the desire to perform sexual acts in the, traditionally, woman's role is only one part of my life, and it isn't even the dominant part. I don't feel like I should be compartmentalized or ostracized for feeling that way.

In fact a big reason why I asked my initial question is I found when I went to ask people who have been in my situation, and have since come out to their wives, for advice I found myself rejected or met with ignored friend requests.

Well your wife & almost / everyone you know
don't hang out on tranny boards
& if they did:
1.they wouldn't be likely to out you, as it would out themselves
2.In a dress, wig, makeup they arn't gonna recognise you in the first place, Doh!

If your wife checks your computer to see which sites you visit, she already know your interest in tv cd ts tranny porn, anyway.
If you don't want to put up a pic, thats ok.
And others reactions are for a myriad of reasons.
The fact your question in these places is not fantasy/wank stuff
should tell those people
that your question is genuine.