Immigration law

[Rachel]

Darn Tracy beat me to all the good comebacks! lol But lets call a Spade a Spade shall we SMC? They arent "undocumented workers" or any of the other politically correct niceties. They are Illegal Aliens. They are criminals.They didnt immigrate here. They entered the Country illegally. And they are a drain to our society not contributors. From all the free charity healthcare they get to local cities building shelters in muster zones. They dont pay taxes yet their children attend our schools.

[smc]

Originally Posted by Rachel

Darn Tracy beat me to all the good comebacks! lol But lets call a Spade a Spade shall we SMC? They arent "undocumented workers" or any of the other politically correct niceties. They are Illegal Aliens. They are criminals.They didnt immigrate here. They entered the Country illegally. And they are a drain to our society not contributors. From all the free charity healthcare they get to local cities building shelters in muster zones. They dont pay taxes yet their children attend our schools.

I am more afraid of living in an America where people who think as you write above -- reactionary, vitriolic, nativist, short-sighted, etc. -- are in charge than of living in a country overrun by the people you so easily belittle.

By the way, I use "undocumented worker" not as a PC nicety, but because I refuse to take the simplistic road of simply criminalizing behavior that has, at its root, the human yearning for a better life free of poverty and degradation.

It's so easy for we Americans to sit on our high horses, but I wonder what any of us would do were the tables turned. How about you, Rachel. I understand you have a gun. If your family was dirt poor, had no prospects for getting food, lived in rural Mexico and was subjected to all difficulties brought upon by gangs, murderers, and so on, might you pack them up and try to move somewhere safer and with more opportunity? Might you pick up that gun and use it (even "illegally)?

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by smc

I am more afraid of living in an America where people who think as you write above -- reactionary, vitriolic, nativist, short-sighted, etc. -- are in charge than of living in a country overrun by the people you so easily belittle.

By the way, I use "undocumented worker" not as a PC nicety, but because I refuse to take the simplistic road of simply criminalizing behavior that has, at its root, the human yearning for a better life free of poverty and degradation.

It's so easy for we Americans to sit on our high horses, but I wonder what any of us would do were the tables turned. How about you, Rachel. I understand you have a gun. If your family was dirt poor, had no prospects for getting food, lived in rural Mexico and was subjected to all difficulties brought upon by gangs, murderers, and so on, might you pack them up and try to move somewhere safer and with more opportunity? Might you pick up that gun and use it (even "illegally)?

Simplistic? I'm being real. Do we call car thieves autoless drivers? Let em do it the legal way as my grandparents did. And just WTF do my guns have to do with this conversation?

[smc]

Originally Posted by Rachel

Simplistic? I'm being real. Do we call car thieves autoless drivers? Let em do it the legal way as my grandparents did. And just WTF do my guns have to do with this conversation?

Rachel, I believe you are better than the answer "do we call car thieves autoless drivers?" I explained what I meant by "simplistic" in the full sentence, only a piece of which you respond to. It's about "criminalizing behavior" and the root of that behavior. At least reply to what I actually wrote. It's so easy to pull out a few words and pretend the rest are not there.

As for the "gun," I wrote quite specifically, using it as an analogy to the question of doing something "illegally." I refuse to believe you didn't see it, so I must assume that your question about what your "guns have to do with this conversation" is a rhetorical device. Unfortunately, it's the same as before: pull out a few words and pretend the rest are not there.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Rachel

Simplistic? I'm being real. Do we call car thieves autoless drivers? Let em do it the legal way as my grandparents did. And just WTF do my guns have to do with this conversation?

Hey, don't be hard on autoless drivers. They have vexing social problems to deal with.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by Rachel

Darn Tracy beat me to all the good comebacks! lol But lets call a Spade a Spade shall we SMC? They aren't "undocumented workers" or any of the other politically correct niceties. They are Illegal Aliens. They are criminals.They didn't immigrate here. They entered the Country illegally. And they are a drain to our society not contributors. From all the free charity health care they get to local cities building shelters in muster zones. They don't pay taxes yet their children attend our schools.

Tracy, you are absolutely right, they are illegal aliens. You are wrong about the taxes. They come up here to work to support their families. They obtain fake documentation and are hired as if they were legal. Income taxes and SS taxes are deducted from their paychecks. They do jobs that spoiled Americans are unwilling to do. They clean motel rooms, wash dishes, pick fruit, hoe weeds and raise our crops. These are essential services and alien workers do it cheaply and without complaining. The main problem is they bring their families up here. The wife and children put a strain on public services, health care, schools and housing.
My agricultural company could not have survived without these hardworking guys from Mexico and Guatemala willing to work nine hours a day six days a week for a modest wage.
We cannot stop them from coming up here. What needs to be done is once they have a job, give them a work permit that allows them to legally travel back and forth to Mexico so they can leave their families there where it is much cheaper for them to live.

Unfortunately, our political system is so fucked up, the situation will never be resolved.

[GRH]

Originally Posted by randolph

Tracy, you are absolutely right, they are illegal aliens. You are wrong about the taxes. They come up here to work to support their families. They obtain fake documentation and are hired as if they were legal. Income taxes and SS taxes are deducted from their paychecks. They do jobs that spoiled Americans are unwilling to do. They clean motel rooms, wash dishes, pick fruit, hoe weeds and raise our crops.

I'm unemployed right now and I would GLADLY perform any of these duties without complaint, to support MY LEGAL family. My only stipulation would be to make the federal/state minimum wage...Which in MY experience, most immigrant workers demanded more than that (typically $10/hour). And I'd pay the taxes and SS too, without attributing it to a false set of papers. Why should some damn illegal get work that I'm willling to do first?

These are essential services and alien workers do it cheaply and without complaining. The main problem is they bring their families up here. The wife and children put a strain on public services, health care, schools and housing.

And my spouse and family pay our taxes, we have health insurance, etc., etc. We are not the drain on the system that the illegal family is. So once again, why should an illegal get my job?

My agricultural company could not have survived without these hardworking guys from Mexico and Guatemala willing to work nine hours a day six days a week for a modest wage.

Personally, I'd LOVE to make it utterly impossible for you to survive with them. If it were my call, we'd regularly screen companies for illegal workers (and we'd make it easier for employers to screen their workforce). If you were caught with just one illegal on your payroll, you'd be fined $10,000 and a subsequent fine of $10,000 for every other illegal caught on your audited payroll. Too many strikes, and just like a person, your corporate personhood would be sent away for life for breaking the law too many times. In short, your corporation would be dissolved and liquidated and sold to the highest bidder.

We cannot stop them from coming up here. What needs to be done is once they have a job, give them a work permit that allows them to legally travel back and forth to Mexico so they can leave their families there where it is much cheaper for them to live.

Wrong, we should make work IMPOSSIBLE for them to obtain, so they crawl their way back across the border and make due with what opportunities they can get from where they came from.

Unfortunately, our political system is so fucked up, the situation will never be resolved.

THIS, I completely agree with. I don't look for your solutions, mine, or ANYONE who has sensible solutions to ever have them actually implemented.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by GRH

I'm unemployed right now and I would GLADLY perform any of these duties without complaint, to support MY LEGAL family. My only stipulation would be to make the federal/state minimum wage...Which in MY experience, most immigrant workers demanded more than that (typically $10/hour). And I'd pay the taxes and SS too, without attributing it to a false set of papers. Why should some damn illegal get work that I'm willling to do first?




And my spouse and family pay our taxes, we have health insurance, etc., etc. We are not the drain on the system that the illegal family is. So once again, why should an illegal get my job?



Personally, I'd LOVE to make it utterly impossible for you to survive with them. If it were my call, we'd regularly screen companies for illegal workers (and we'd make it easier for employers to screen their workforce). If you were caught with just one illegal on your payroll, you'd be fined $10,000 and a subsequent fine of $10,000 for every other illegal caught on your audited payroll. Too many strikes, and just like a person, your corporate personhood would be sent away for life for breaking the law too many times. In short, your corporation would be dissolved and liquidated and sold to the highest bidder.



Wrong, we should make work IMPOSSIBLE for them to obtain, so they crawl their way back across the border and make due with what opportunities they can get from where they came from.



THIS, I completely agree with. I don't look for your solutions, mine, or ANYONE who has sensible solutions to ever have them actually implemented.

Believe me, I would have been delighted to hire someone like you. I tried the employment department, job retrainmnent agencies and even private employment agencies. Some would come to work for a week or two and then leave. I am very sorry for your predicament, so many are in it.

In California, unemployment could be mostly eliminated by a simple law, do what Oregon does, require a gas station attendant to fill the tank. This could tide many over until they found a better job.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by GRH

Personally, I'd LOVE to make it utterly impossible for you to survive with them. If it were my call, we'd regularly screen companies for illegal workers (and we'd make it easier for employers to screen their workforce). If you were caught with just one illegal on your payroll, you'd be fined $10,000 and a subsequent fine of $10,000 for every other illegal caught on your audited payroll. Too many strikes, and just like a person, your corporate personhood would be sent away for life for breaking the law too many times. In short, your corporation would be dissolved and liquidated and sold to the highest bidder.

Originally Posted by Rachel

I called for the idea of the .50 cal fence one every half mile will cover the border. We are supposed to be at war arent we?

When I become president I have positions for both of you. (Double entendre intentional)

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

When I become president I have positions for both of you. (Double entendre intentional)

You probably need to be governor of Arizona first. Lots of support there.
Mexican babies born here? Just through them across the border. Who cares, they would make good coyote bait.

[Rachel]

20 years ago there was a fish market/restaurant in town. the best ever. Was a family owned place that was there when my dad was a kid. All of a sudden he's closed up. Boarded up. He had 10 illegals working for him and they shut him down. My how times have changed. Now the problem is ignored and towns are bending over backward to appease this group of criminals. Wasting taxpayers money building shelters in muster zones. Hmm they built it 4 miles away in the industrial park where no one goes at a cost of 144 thousand. What a waste of the citizens money.

[TracyCoxx]

Obama's 2012 campaign strategy is starting to take shape and being the dirty politician he is I think we all expected this: If you can't count on your own citizens to re-elect you, just make new citizens!

Originally Posted by NumbersUSA

Senators Challenge Pres. Obama on Rumors of Executive Order Amnesty

Several Senators have learned of a possible plan by the Obama Administration that would provide a mass Amnesty for the nation's 11-18 million illegal aliens. Led by Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), eight Senators addressed a letter to the President asking for answers to questions about a plan that would allow DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano to provide an amnesty if they can't secure enough votes for a bill in the Senate.

The letter that was sent to Pres. Obama earlier today asks the President for clarification on the use of deferred action or parole for illegal aliens. The executive actions are typically used in special cases and are evaluated on a case-by-case basis, but if 60 votes can't be secured in the Senate to pass a mass Amnesty, the Administration may use the discretionary actions as an alternative.

Click here for text of the letter signed by Sens. Grassley, Hatch (R-Utah), Vitter (R-La.), Bunning (R-Ky.), Chambliss (R-Ga.), Isakson (R-Ga.), Inhofe (R-Okla.), and Cochran (R-Miss.).