Republicans

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Tread

Waterboarding is international described as torture.
The US has prosecuted water torture as war crime many times in history, what should Waterboarding exclude from this?

In the case Hamdan v. Rumsfeld (2006), the Supreme Court of the United States decides that prisoners of terror can?t be treated as Unlawful Combatant.
So they fall under the Laws of War or Public International Law, and forbid torture.

It is not right to punish someone who infracted the law (terrorism) with lawless methods. That is an antinomy itself.

Simulating drowing is not torture; actually carrying through with trying to drown a person would be.

Originally Posted by Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Main Entry: 1tor?ture
Pronunciation: \ˈtȯr-chər\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Old French, from Late Latin tortura, from Latin tortus, past participle of torquēre to twist; probably akin to Old High German drāhsil turner, Greek atraktos spindle
Date: 1540
1 a : anguish of body or mind : agony b : something that causes agony or pain
2 : the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3 : distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument : straining

This is how the "noble Arabs" operate: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...2torture1.html

Comparing waterboarding to what they do is like comparing a pea shooter to a 155mm howitzer. Is this method uncomfortable? Yes. Does simulated drowning physically or mentally debilitate someone compared to beatings or other barbaristic actions? No.

I think people fail to recognize that the people who get waterboarded are not your average, run-of-the-mill citizen who has been mistakenly detained. They are die-hard fanatics who would kill innocent people in a heartbeat and with a smile on their face.

When you have commandos abduct you in the middle of the night, chances are high that you did something to deserve it.

[The Conquistador]

Some more Middle East torture methods...

[Tread]

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

Simulating drowing is not torture; actually carrying through with trying to drown a person would be.

Simulating you?re dieing is (mental) torture.

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

This is how the "noble Arabs" operate: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...2torture1.html

Comparing waterboarding to what they do is like comparing a pea shooter to a 155mm howitzer. Is this method uncomfortable? Yes. Does simulated drowning physically or mentally debilitate someone compared to beatings or other barbaristic actions? No.

You can?t compare this that way.
One torture destroys you physical and possibly to death, the other destroys you mental, and you could also die directly by extreme mental torture.

As far as I know physical injuries heal faster and better or are better to live with than mental injuries.
Often physical tortures causes mental injuries too, but that don?t make them worse in general.

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

I think people fail to recognize that the people who get waterboarded are not your average, run-of-the-mill citizen who has been mistakenly detained. They are die-hard fanatics who would kill innocent people in a heartbeat and with a smile on their face.

No matter how evil they are, or what you or I think they deserve, no government can ignore its own standards for prisoners. And the US law does not allow torture under any conditions.

I don?t say they are innocent, but they never had a conviction, and the most of them are not the suicide-bomber who killed people.
It was never proven in with degrade they are involved. i.e. is someone who cooked the meal in a terror camp as guilty as the organizer of a terror act?

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Tread

Simulating you?re dieing is (mental) torture.

You can?t compare this that way.
One torture destroys you physical and possibly to death, the other destroys you mental, and you could also die directly by extreme mental torture.

As far as I know physical injuries heal faster and better or are better to live with than mental injuries.
Often physical tortures causes mental injuries too, but that don?t make them worse in general.

No matter how evil they are, or what you or I think they deserve, no government can ignore its own standards for prisoners. And the US law does not allow torture under any conditions.

I don?t say they are innocent, but they never had a conviction, and the most of them are not the suicide-bomber who killed people.
It was never proven in with degrade they are involved. i.e. is someone who cooked the meal in a terror camp as guilty as the organizer of a terror act?

There is now way to simulate death; you either are or you aren't. Simulating drowning is not the same as dying.

Reread the definition of torture again; specifically the second line in the definition.

The US doesn't allow torture. But there is nothing about uncomfortable interrogation techniques. Waterboarding does not leave any lasting physical or mental damage to a subject like Chinese Water Torture or beatings do.

The people who work alongside known terrorist organizations are guilty by association. The people who are waterboarded are usually found planting IED's and EFP's along a roadside and will most likely have had interaction with a high value target.

[Talvenada]

TREAD:

Conse 'Pubs start with the desired outcome, craft their argument to fit, and then they look for anything to savage in any opinion that questions their flawless conclusion.

TAL

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

TREAD:

Conse 'Pubs start with the desired outcome, craft their argument to fit, and then they look for anything to savage in any opinion that questions their flawless conclusion.

TAL

Crafting huh? I highlighted the second part of the definition of torture as it was the applicable part of that definition. The first part of the definition is more figurative; i.e. "He was tortured by those memories which until recently, had been long forgotten."

Context my brutha!

[Talvenada]

ANGRY:

That Conse 'Pub radio talker on WLS in Chicago and a friend of Sean Hannity tried waterboarding on the air, while he was filmed. He felt it would be like splashing water on his face, and 60 seconds would be EASY to attain. He lasted SEVEN SECONDS, and told a dismissive Hannity it was TORTURE.

The water goes down your nose and throat, causes a near blackout condition, and begins a mental breakdown. That's after SEVEN SECONDS.

But even a Conse 'Pub saying it makes him a traitor at worst, and makeshim a RINO at best. I know whose side is he on!! Or you want proof to savage!!!

TAL

Mancow Muller waterboarding update: Hey Sean Hannity, it's 'absolutely torture'
By Craig Newman on May 27, 2009 12:24 PM |

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

ANGRY:

That Conse 'Pub radio talker on WLS in Chicago and a friend of Sean Hannity tried waterboarding on the air, while he was filmed. He felt it would be like splashing water on his face, and 60 seconds would be EASY to attain. He lasted SEVEN SECONDS, and told a dismissive Hannity it was TORTURE.

The water goes down your nose and throat, causes a near blackout condition, and begins a mental breakdown. That's after SEVEN SECONDS.

But even a Conse 'Pub saying it makes him a traitor at worst, and makeshim a RINO at best. I know whose side is he on!! Or you want proof to savage!!!

TAL

Mancow Muller waterboarding update: Hey Sean Hannity, it's 'absolutely torture'
By Craig Newman on May 27, 2009 12:24 PM |

Everyone has a pain/discomfort threshold. Most people's definition of "torture" would be anything that hurts their feelings or causes them any kind of discomfort.

Do you honestly think that all those Gitmo detainees that complain of "torture" are somehow champions of humanity and liberty? No. They are just trying to abuse the system so that they can get back to their job of blowing up people or gunning them down.

A "mental breakdown"? Haha! More like "low discomfort threshold". Was there any lasting damage resulting from that?

[The Conquistador]

What does torture look like?

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/05/25...ure-look-like/

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

Everyone has a pain/discomfort threshold. Most people's definition of "torture" would be anything that hurts their feelings or causes them any kind of discomfort.

Do you honestly think that all those Gitmo detainees that complain of "torture" are somehow champions of humanity and liberty? No. They are just trying to abuse the system so that they can get back to their job of blowing up people or gunning them down.

A "mental breakdown"? Haha! More like "low discomfort threshold". Was there any lasting damage resulting from that?

TREAD:

FACT 1: Waterboarding is not torture.

PROOF 1: Poking your eye out with a knife is torture, and since waterboarding isn't that extreme that proves it is not torture.

ANGRY:

A Conse 'Pub--like YOU--talker wanted to prove that waterboarding is not torture, but after doing it on film and on air he said it was torture.

He said that despite his conversation with Hannity, and despite his Conse 'Pub audience he said it was TORTURE!!

He also said regarding his fellow Conse 'Pubs: What about the truth no longer meaning anything?

Why don't you slime him??? Call him what he is!!!


TAL

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

TREAD:

FACT 1: Waterboarding is not torture.

PROOF 1: Poking your eye out with a knife is torture, and since waterboarding isn't that extreme that proves it is not torture.

ANGRY:

A Conse 'Pub--like YOU--talker wanted to prove that waterboarding is not torture, but after doing it on film and on air he said it was torture.

He said that despite his conversation with Hannity, and despite his Conse 'Pub audience he said it was TORTURE!!

He also said regarding his fellow Conse 'Pubs: What about the truth no longer meaning anything?

Why don't you slime him??? Call him what he is!!!


TAL

I'm a libertarian TAL. Don't call me a "Conse 'Pub".

Christopher Hitchens is just another talking head like Glenn Beck or Rachel Maddow and saying that he speaks on my behalf is just absurd.

Your arguements as to what defines "torture" and what falls into that category has not risen above "It's torture because it makes the person uncomfortable". There are thousands of things that make someone uncomfortable and yet they aren't defined as torture. Why not?

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

I'm a libertarian TAL. Don't call me a "Conse 'Pub".

Christopher Hitchens is just another talking head like Glenn Beck or Rachel Maddow and saying that he speaks on my behalf is just absurd.

Your arguements as to what defines "torture" and what falls into that category has not risen above "It's torture because it makes the person uncomfortable". There are thousands of things that make someone uncomfortable and yet they aren't defined as torture. Why not?

ANGRY:

So, you're a Lib. LOL and then some.

Mancow Muller on WLS in Chicago and a friend of Sean Hannity, felt it would be like splashing water on his face, and 60 seconds would be easy.

The water goes down your nose and throat, causes a near blackout condition, and begins a mental breakdown. That's after SEVEN SECONDS.

So, your opinion is that he is a wussy, and the above description is only him and only a little uncomfortable?



TAL

[cuminmyass]

impeached for what? What has he done that was impeachable?

People throw that word around and don't really know anything about it. They use it as an umbrella term when they just really mean to say, "throw him out of office".

[The Conquistador]

Uggghhh! I too was gone for a couple days; never eat burritos from a questionable looking taco truck, no matter how tempting the price may be...

[shadows]

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

Uggghhh! I too was gone for a couple days; never eat burritos from a questionable looking taco truck, no matter how tempting the price may be...

Unfortunately, you tend to get what you pay for, especially with road-side food carts. I hope you weren't too sick, Postman, and I am glad that you are feeling better.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by cuminmyass

impeached for what? What has he done that was impeachable?

People throw that word around and don't really know anything about it. They use it as an umbrella term when they just really mean to say, "throw him out of office".

You have to ask? Even democrats want him gone!