Baseball

[smc]

I've been giving a lot more thought today to Mark McGwire's interview with Bob Costas. It may still be reasonable to believe that McGwire began taking steroids because of injuries, his refusal to acknowledge even the possibility that the drugs may have contributed positively to his performance numbers renders his apology meaningless. So now we have an admission of guilt, but not the apology that would come with a full confession of the facts.

I am not alone in this assessment. I found this evening that most of the commentators were saying virtually the same thing.

Here's some of what McGwire said when asked by Costas whether the drugs enhanced his performance. Insisting they did not, he said: ""I just believed in my ability, and my hand to eye coordination, and the strength of my mind. I developed them on their own"

Asked whether he would have had the same level of home run productivity if he "had never touched anything more than a protein shake," McGwire said yes, insisting he could have surpassed Babe Ruth's productivity without the drugs.

Keith Olbermann made a very good point: while some speculate whether he might have hit, say, 40 without the steroids rather than 70 in a season, the truth is that if he took the drugs for the reason he claims -- for his health, so that he could be healthy enough to play baseball -- the drugs actually enabled him to hit any number over zero.

Clearly, McGwire had no choice but to "come clean" (his words) because of his recent hiring by the St. Louis Cardinals as hitting coach.

Today comes the revelation that McGwire's "crisis manager" consultant for yesterday's events is Ari Fleischer, George W. Bush's first press secretary of his presidency. As Keith Olbermann put it tonight (I am paraphrasing), now we know that Fleischer's worse "hit and miss" wasn't "Mission Accomplished."

[dauls]

Nice posts smc & shadows.

I've only seen excerpts of McGwire's interview, but I didn't fall for his crocodile tears. What does he want? A fcking Oscar. Maybe he taught Paltrow how to weep to order when she collected her 'Best Actress' award.

The "I only took small amounts to help recover from injuries and to cope with the strain of a 162 game schedule", sounds like bullsht to me.

If anyone in baseball would have 'needed' steroids to help get through a 162 game season then that would've been the hero who managed to string together a run of 2,632 games, he played through a fck of a lot of injuries.
But somehow he knew taking steroids was wrong, even though the Commissioner and MLB failed to implement doping tests in baseball long after other sports had done the decent thing.

Taking steroids in baseball may not have been banned in McGwire's time, but he knew it was wrong. Look at the size of him when he hit that record breaking homer, how did he manage to run the bases carrying that upper body around?

Would he have still hit 583 homers without the steroids?
We'll never know... will we?
So he can't say "Yes, I would have." Unless he can find a time machine, travel back to before his first 'juicing' and then play his career again... clean.
Where's the Doctor when you need him? Oops! That's what probably got McGwire into trouble in the first place.

I bet Bonds is currently enjoying all the attention being on someone else.

-----------------

When it comes to steroids, I'm surprised no athletes have been nobbled by opponents. There must be some dodgy coaches/athletes out there who've wanted/tried to spike the competition's food/drink with the hope that they'll get caught by the testers.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by dauls

Nice posts smc & shadows.

I've only seen excerpts of McGwire's interview, but I didn't fall for his crocodile tears. What does he want? A fcking Oscar. Maybe he taught Paltrow how to weep to order when she collected her 'Best Actress' award.

The "I only took small amounts to help recover from injuries and to cope with the strain of a 162 game schedule", sounds like bullsht to me.

If anyone in baseball would have 'needed' steroids to help get through a 162 game season then that would've been the hero who managed to string together a run of 2,632 games, he played through a fck of a lot of injuries.
But somehow he knew taking steroids was wrong, even though the Commissioner and MLB failed to implement doping tests in baseball long after other sports had done the decent thing.

Taking steroids in baseball may not have been banned in McGwire's time, but he knew it was wrong. Look at the size of him when he hit that record breaking homer, how did he manage to run the bases carrying that upper body around?

Would he have still hit 583 homers without the steroids?
We'll never know... will we?
So he can't say "Yes, I would have." Unless he can find a time machine, travel back to before his first 'juicing' and then play his career again... clean.
Where's the Doctor when you need him? Oops! That's what probably got McGwire into trouble in the first place.

I bet Bonds is currently enjoying all the attention being on someone else.

-----------------

When it comes to steroids, I'm surprised no athletes have been nobbled by opponents. There must be some dodgy coaches/athletes out there who've wanted/tried to spike the competition's food/drink with the hope that they'll get caught by the testers.

Thanks dauls.

Regarding Bonds, he will be happy all right...at least until his trial starts.

Just in case you were wondering, you can swear if you want to.

[ila]

I think the commissioner at the time, team owners, coaches, etc. have got to take some of the blame for the rampant steroid use among the players. Had those in charge not turned a blind eye/encouraged the use/failed to implement drug testing then there would not have been a problem and the players would have had unblemished records. Maybe these players were capable of their feats without drug use, but we'll never know and baseball is the poorer for it.

The fans have lost out and the players have lost out. The only winners, it seems to me, were the team owners. I'm not shocked at this, but I am disappointed.

[transjen]

This whole mess started in the mid 80s and i think ESPN has a lot to do with it, Players were all asking how can i make the top of sports center? Answer smack the ball to the moon not only will that give me prime sports center coverage but my contract amount will increase and it draws more fans to pay and watch putting dollar signs in the owners eyes so they acted like I KNOW NOTHING i don't see my two bash brothers in the stale give each out a needle in the butt,
Money greed caused the whole roid mess and i believe ESPN was a factorer
Jerseygirl Jen

[ila]

Originally Posted by transjen

This whole mess started in the mid 80s and i think ESPN has a lot to do with it, Players were all asking how can i make the top of sports center? Answer smack the ball to the moon not only will that give me prime sports center coverage but my contract amount will increase and it draws more fans to pay and watch putting dollar signs in the owners eyes so they acted like I KNOW NOTHING i don't see my two bash brothers in the stale give each out a needle in the butt,
Money greed caused the whole roid mess and i believe ESPN was a factorer
Jerseygirl Jen

I've never thought of the ESPN connection, but I think it has merit. You're probably onto something here, Jen.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by ila

I've never thought of the ESPN connection, but I think it has merit. You're probably onto something here, Jen.

A lot of the people that post at espn.com have stated that a lot of their articles are now "sensationalized" rather than being just about the sport. There have also been rumblings of bias, such as the various NCAA football stories that deal with the one ESPN employee's son who said that his coach "mistreated" him while he had a concussion. They call it "the shed" incident, but I cannot recall any more particulars.

[shadows]

Originally Posted by ila

I think the commissioner at the time, team owners, coaches, etc. have got to take some of the blame for the rampant steroid use among the players. Had those in charge not turned a blind eye/encouraged the use/failed to implement drug testing then there would not have been a problem and the players would have had unblemished records. Maybe these players were capable of their feats without drug use, but we'll never know and baseball is the poorer for it.

The fans have lost out and the players have lost out. The only winners, it seems to me, were the team owners. I'm not shocked at this, but I am disappointed.

It boggles the mind how quickly everyone has given A-Roid a pass(and that means Bud Selig as well as other MLB execs), yet they still will not allow Pete Rose into the Hall! Come on! I can see if Pete ever bet for the Reds to lose, but he always bet for them to win. I think Pete's "crime" is far less severe than the various juice-heads that will probably end up in the Hall(A-Roid? There is one undeserving assclown if I ever saw one. I can't stand that punk!

[transjen]

A-Rod gets the free pass because he's a fan favorite and he packs em in, He didn't do anything that Bonds didn't do and yet Bonds is seen as a bad guy the difference is Bonds was and is an A-HOLE and not loved by fans
And rember good old Bud was and proably still a team owner for most and even if he really no longer owns the Brewers i believe his daughter is so he won't come down on George or take away one of his top gate players as A-ROD draws fans so a blind eye is turned
If Pete was still able to pack the house you could bet your life savings he would be back in baseball but i dout i live long enought to see Pete get in the hall of fame i will bet that Jose Cansenco will get in before Pete does
Jerseygirl Jen

[shadows]

Originally Posted by transjen

A-Rod gets the free pass because he's a fan favorite and he packs em in, He didn't do anything that Bonds didn't do and yet Bonds is seen as a bad guy the difference is Bonds was and is an A-HOLE and not loved by fans
And rember good old Bud was and proably still a team owner for most and even if he really no longer owns the Brewers i believe his daughter is so he won't come down on George or take away one of his top gate players as A-ROD draws fans so a blind eye is turned
If Pete was still able to pack the house you could bet your life savings he would be back in baseball but i dout i live long enought to see Pete get in the hall of fame i will bet that Jose Cansenco will get in before Pete does
Jerseygirl Jen

But A-Rod is not a fan-favourite, Jen. True, he is liked by the Yankee fans, but his actions both off AND on the field have not endeared him at all to most fans.

I am not sure if you remember this incident or not, but a few years ago he knocked the glove off the hand of the pitcher covering first base while he was running down the first base path. Even Jeter, his own teammate, looked at him with a look of utter disbelief. Needless to say, he got called out, and Jeter was forced to remain at first base(I cannot remember who got called out, but I know it basically killed the rally at the time).

Another time, he called out "Mine! Mine! I got it!" while running the basepaths against Toronto a couple of years ago. Even John McDonald was pissed at him(and Johnny Mac never got angry!) for that. He is not a team-player, and I would rather have a player like Derek Jeter any time. Jeter has respect for fans, for his teammates, and most importantly for the game itself.

The only reason A-Rod has popularity is due to the fact that Selig basically swept it all under the rug. I cannot determine who is worse for their respective sport...Bettman or Selig.

I also don't think that Jose Canseco will ever get in the Hall. He has ruffled far too many feathers to get in. He made them look bad in the eyes of the public and they will remember that.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by ila

I think the commissioner at the time, team owners, coaches, etc. have got to take some of the blame for the rampant steroid use among the players. Had those in charge not turned a blind eye/encouraged the use/failed to implement drug testing then there would not have been a problem and the players would have had unblemished records. Maybe these players were capable of their feats without drug use, but we'll never know and baseball is the poorer for it.

The fans have lost out and the players have lost out. The only winners, it seems to me, were the team owners. I'm not shocked at this, but I am disappointed.

JEN:

Baseball and sports are only an extension of a society that ups their resume with a keyboard stroke, take people-helping jobs only for the money, and the politicians are the worst of the worst.

TAL

[Talvenada]

SHADOW MAN:

Jose Canseco turns out to be the only honest one of the bunch.


TAL

[shadows]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

SHADOW MAN:

Jose Canseco turns out to be the only honest one of the bunch.


TAL

That sure seems to be the case. I always thought that he was being truthful, but it has now come to light just how truthful he was! He knew he was going to be ostracized from the "clique" for writing his book, but he did it anyhow. Was money a motivating factor? Probably it had something to do with it, but I am glad that he brought it to light regardless of the reasons behind it. It caused the users to attempt to scurry back under their rocks, but it was too late. The rocks had already been removed.

I will also admit that I always liked Canseco. He was a hoot to watch, especially in the outfield(remember the ball that bounced off his head and became a homerun when it went over the fence?). He was even a Blue Jay for a while there.