Barack Obama

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

It's a Christmas miracle we actualy aggree on something


Jerseygirl Jen

Cool

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Oh, please! You think the health care industry cares about quality? All they care about is profits.

Well that's the funny thing about capitalism. There's a relationship between quality and profits. If it's government run, they'll get paid either way. No incentive for profits. I keep bringing this up. Do you not agree with that?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Well that's the funny thing about capitalism. There's a relationship between quality and profits. If it's government run, they'll get paid either way. No incentive for profits. I keep bringing this up. Do you not agree with that?

You seem the think that "profits" are the sin qua non of human motivation. I belong to an HMO called Kaiser Permanente. It was set up during WWII to serve the workers at Kaiser steel mills. Since then it has expanded to become a major HMO in the far West. I have belonged to it for many years. The clinic service is excellent and the hospitals are first class and they will pay for emergency health costs outside of their territory. Also, they saved my life after a burst appendix. There is no quibbling over health services, if you need something done, you get it done.
Now is this HMO one of you beloved profiteering corporations?
NO! It is a NONPROFIT organization run by doctors!
It is very efficient and has a state of the art computer record and health maintenance system. There are no lines, no waiting when you have an appointment, they are ready.
I know of no for profit HMO that comes close to Kaiser and a friend who works for a private HMO confirms that view.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Well that's the funny thing about capitalism. There's a relationship between quality and profits. If it's government run, they'll get paid either way. No incentive for profits. I keep bringing this up. Do you not agree with that?

Originally Posted by randolph

You seem the think that "profits" are the sin qua non of human motivation.

Sorry... above I meant to say "If it's government run, they'll get paid either way. No incentive for quality."

Originally Posted by randolph

Now is this HMO one of you beloved profiteering corporations?
NO! It is a NONPROFIT organization run by doctors!
It is very efficient and has a state of the art computer record and health maintenance system. There are no lines, no waiting when you have an appointment, they are ready.
I know of no for profit HMO that comes close to Kaiser and a friend who works for a private HMO confirms that view.

Awesome. Dedicated health practitioners can certainly provide great quality health care. I do not believe that profit is the only motivation. What I have said all along is that the government has never been, and never will be efficient. In some cases it may be state of the art, but certainly not in national health care.

Does this look efficient to you?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Well that's the funny thing about capitalism. There's a relationship between quality and profits. If it's government run, they'll get paid either way. No incentive for profits. I keep bringing this up. Do you not agree with that?

Yes, I will have to agree with you there. I was president of my own agricultural company for many years. I went to Washington several times to deal with Agricultural regulations. The "Washington" bureaucracy is appalling, consisting of mostly "administrators" supervising people that do nothing.
OK, I just shot down my own view of gov. run health care, well not really, Medicare is a fairly well run system. The value of a gov. run alternative to private insurance is that it provides a damper on excess profits that private companies strive for. Our goal is to hold down escalating costs of health care, right?

[jimnaseum]

Yeah, let's put these guys in charge.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

Yeah, let's put these guys in charge.

I don't get the Hannity/Eddie comparison. They both have black hair? Is that it? And I think Coulter looks more like a hippie that grew up into one of your liberal congresswomen.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I don't get the Hannity/Eddie comparison. They both have black hair? Is that it? And I think Coulter looks more like a hippie that grew up into one of your liberal congresswomen.

I still say Hannity looks like a grown up Eddie Monster and for Coulter growing up into a hippie liberal that would be her worst and scarest nightmare but funny to everyone else
Jerseygirl Jen

[transjen]

Question- how much money does the goverment shell out on serect service to protect the Carters, Bushs, Clinton's, Bush's?
Ok Hillary being the sitting sec of state so i can see the need for secert service protection but if she wasn't why are we spending all this money? I mean really they are former presidents and not in danger like they were when they were in office, When has anyone ever took a shot at a former president? I just feel these are resources and money that could be better spent elsewhere if they feel they need secert service protection still then let them pick up the tab. Just something to think about
Jerseygirl Jen

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

OK, I just shot down my own view of gov. run health care, well not really, Medicare is a fairly well run system. The value of a gov. run alternative to private insurance is that it provides a damper on excess profits that private companies strive for. Our goal is to hold down escalating costs of health care, right?

Ok, you tell me how pharmaceutical companies should be run. Are you a benevolent non-profit organization run by brilliant and giving chemists and microbiologists? Will your organization be able to map cancer genes? Run studies that will be safe for users and get an ok by the FDA?

Or will you grant that pharmaceutical companies have large expenses in research and trials, not to mention drug ingredients, processing, etc. If you do concede this, and you're the president of this pharmaceutical company, what do you do when the government mandates that the costs of your drugs go down? Does that magically erase your research and drug trial expenses? Probably not. So you have a choice. Do you continue developing drugs in the US, or do you go to some other country where they accept the realities of your business?

BTW, I bet of medical practitioners from clinics to insurance companies to pharmaceutical companies could lower a lot of their costs if Tort Reform were passed. Is that part of the health care bill? No! Why not? Aren't they interested in making health care affordable for everyone? Hmmm, maybe not. I think these lawmakers that you're depending on to provide you and everyone else in this country the health care we all need are on the take. Are those the people you want deciding what kind of health care you receive? No thanks!