Barack Obama

[transjen]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Senate Passes Health Insurance Overhaul

The Senate passed a health insurance overhaul on Thursday morning, 60-39, as both Democrats and Republicans held unified in their positions on the massive bill that mandates coverage for about 9 percent of the U.S. population now without insurance.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...h-care-reform/

Fuck you Senate. Fuck you very much.
You have violated your oath of office and passed a bill that is unconstitutional. What's more, you haven't represented your constituents. In EVERY poll over the past several months, US citizens DO NOT WANT HEALTH CARE REFORM! I don't need to wait for November 2010 for all you dipshits to be cleared out of congress because all the democrats in the senate should be thrown in jail.


He did say 'stuff bi-partisan'. They voted 60-39 along party lines. Only thing is he went against what the people were screaming for.

Geez relax girl the GOP is already planning to do away with it before it ever takes effect the Senator from Texas is planning to go to the unsupreme court claiming health care for everyone is unconstoutional and if that doesn't work they plan in the next two election to retake the house, senate and white house and by a partasain vote take healthcare away from the poor and give it back to the rich so relax and don't blow a gasket the GOP will restore everything back to big business and the rich

Jerseygirl Jen

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

Geez relax girl the GOP is already planning to do away with it before it ever takes effect

I doubt they have the votes to enforce the people's will.

Originally Posted by transjen

the Senator from Texas is planning to go to the unsupreme court claiming health care for everyone is unconstoutional and if that doesn't work they plan in the next two election to retake the house, senate and white house and by a partasain vote take healthcare away from the poor and give it back to the rich

Hopefully they'll take health care away from the illegal aliens too that will wind up with it.

Health care for everyone - of the quality that most Americans are used to, is just not possible. The government is broke and the quality of health care is going to go down if you provide blanket health care for everyone. You don't solve the problem for 15% of the population by crippling a system that 85% of the population is fine with. You don't provide health care for illegal aliens (we all know this is next, and they're practically getting it anyway). If the government is broke, which it is btw, you don't launch yet another $multi-trillion program. Is it just me or are these things not obvious?

Originally Posted by randolph

Well if government is so inefficient why did the health industry spend six hundred million dollars to get the public option dropped? Sounds like the public option was a threat to their obscene profits screwing sick people.

Because the public option is a threat to the quality of health care in America, and they don't want government to move in and install a paralyzing bureaucracy.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Hopefully they'll take health care away from the illegal aliens too that will wind up with it.

It's a Christmas miracle we actualy aggree on something


Jerseygirl Jen

[randolph]

Originally Posted by transjen

It's a Christmas miracle we actualy aggree on something


Jerseygirl Jen

Hey, hey Jen is that you in your avatar?

[transjen]

Originally Posted by randolph

Hey, hey Jen is that you in your avatar?

I wish, No it's the actress who played Buffy the vampire slayer


Jerseygirl Jen

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

It's a Christmas miracle we actualy aggree on something


Jerseygirl Jen

Cool

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Oh, please! You think the health care industry cares about quality? All they care about is profits.

Well that's the funny thing about capitalism. There's a relationship between quality and profits. If it's government run, they'll get paid either way. No incentive for profits. I keep bringing this up. Do you not agree with that?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Well that's the funny thing about capitalism. There's a relationship between quality and profits. If it's government run, they'll get paid either way. No incentive for profits. I keep bringing this up. Do you not agree with that?

You seem the think that "profits" are the sin qua non of human motivation. I belong to an HMO called Kaiser Permanente. It was set up during WWII to serve the workers at Kaiser steel mills. Since then it has expanded to become a major HMO in the far West. I have belonged to it for many years. The clinic service is excellent and the hospitals are first class and they will pay for emergency health costs outside of their territory. Also, they saved my life after a burst appendix. There is no quibbling over health services, if you need something done, you get it done.
Now is this HMO one of you beloved profiteering corporations?
NO! It is a NONPROFIT organization run by doctors!
It is very efficient and has a state of the art computer record and health maintenance system. There are no lines, no waiting when you have an appointment, they are ready.
I know of no for profit HMO that comes close to Kaiser and a friend who works for a private HMO confirms that view.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Well that's the funny thing about capitalism. There's a relationship between quality and profits. If it's government run, they'll get paid either way. No incentive for profits. I keep bringing this up. Do you not agree with that?

Originally Posted by randolph

You seem the think that "profits" are the sin qua non of human motivation.

Sorry... above I meant to say "If it's government run, they'll get paid either way. No incentive for quality."

Originally Posted by randolph

Now is this HMO one of you beloved profiteering corporations?
NO! It is a NONPROFIT organization run by doctors!
It is very efficient and has a state of the art computer record and health maintenance system. There are no lines, no waiting when you have an appointment, they are ready.
I know of no for profit HMO that comes close to Kaiser and a friend who works for a private HMO confirms that view.

Awesome. Dedicated health practitioners can certainly provide great quality health care. I do not believe that profit is the only motivation. What I have said all along is that the government has never been, and never will be efficient. In some cases it may be state of the art, but certainly not in national health care.

Does this look efficient to you?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Well that's the funny thing about capitalism. There's a relationship between quality and profits. If it's government run, they'll get paid either way. No incentive for profits. I keep bringing this up. Do you not agree with that?

Yes, I will have to agree with you there. I was president of my own agricultural company for many years. I went to Washington several times to deal with Agricultural regulations. The "Washington" bureaucracy is appalling, consisting of mostly "administrators" supervising people that do nothing.
OK, I just shot down my own view of gov. run health care, well not really, Medicare is a fairly well run system. The value of a gov. run alternative to private insurance is that it provides a damper on excess profits that private companies strive for. Our goal is to hold down escalating costs of health care, right?

[jimnaseum]

Yeah, let's put these guys in charge.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

OK, I just shot down my own view of gov. run health care, well not really, Medicare is a fairly well run system. The value of a gov. run alternative to private insurance is that it provides a damper on excess profits that private companies strive for. Our goal is to hold down escalating costs of health care, right?

Ok, you tell me how pharmaceutical companies should be run. Are you a benevolent non-profit organization run by brilliant and giving chemists and microbiologists? Will your organization be able to map cancer genes? Run studies that will be safe for users and get an ok by the FDA?

Or will you grant that pharmaceutical companies have large expenses in research and trials, not to mention drug ingredients, processing, etc. If you do concede this, and you're the president of this pharmaceutical company, what do you do when the government mandates that the costs of your drugs go down? Does that magically erase your research and drug trial expenses? Probably not. So you have a choice. Do you continue developing drugs in the US, or do you go to some other country where they accept the realities of your business?

BTW, I bet of medical practitioners from clinics to insurance companies to pharmaceutical companies could lower a lot of their costs if Tort Reform were passed. Is that part of the health care bill? No! Why not? Aren't they interested in making health care affordable for everyone? Hmmm, maybe not. I think these lawmakers that you're depending on to provide you and everyone else in this country the health care we all need are on the take. Are those the people you want deciding what kind of health care you receive? No thanks!

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I doubt they have the votes to enforce the people's will.

Hopefully they'll take health care away from the illegal aliens too that will wind up with it.

Health care for everyone - of the quality that most Americans are used to, is just not possible. The government is broke and the quality of health care is going to go down if you provide blanket health care for everyone. You don't solve the problem for 15% of the population by crippling a system that 85% of the population is fine with. You don't provide health care for illegal aliens (we all know this is next, and they're practically getting it anyway). If the government is broke, which it is btw, you don't launch yet another $multi-trillion program. Is it just me or are these things not obvious?

Because the public option is a threat to the quality of health care in America, and they don't want government to move in and install a paralyzing bureaucracy.

Oh, please! You think the health care industry cares about quality? All they care about is profits. They are corporations and they are beholden to their stockholders for dividends and stock value growth. If they don't come through, their shareholders will sell their stock. As long as we have this kind of system running our health care we will see escalating costs until none of us can afford it.