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Old 11-11-2009
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[QUOTE=TheAngryPostman;116638]I did read it and still it sounds bogus. Canada's Healthcare system. Sure...

The study was done by doctors at Harvard, that would seem to provide it with considerable credibility.
I find it tragic that there are veterans that have fallen through the cracks and are not getting adequate health care.
Our so called "competitive" private health care system is the most expensive and inefficient in the world.
In Japan health care is paid for by the government. Hospitals, however are all private. A typical room is ten dollars a day and a luxury room is eighty a day. Hospitals here charge you five thousand dollars a day just to sit in the emergency room waiting for help. Until we get profit obsessed companies out of the health care system we will have nothing but endless escalation of health care costs.
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Old 11-11-2009
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Until we get profit obsessed companies out of the health care system we will have nothing but endless escalation of health care costs.

The "Costs" of Medical Care by Thomas Sowell

We are incessantly being told that the cost of medical care is "too high" — either absolutely or as a growing percentage of our incomes. But nothing that is being proposed by the government is likely to lower those costs, and much that is being proposed is almost certain to increase the costs.


There is a fundamental difference between reducing costs and simply shifting costs around, like a pea in a shell game at a carnival. Costs are not reduced simply because you pay less at a doctor's office and more in taxes — or more in insurance premiums, or more in higher prices for other goods and services that you buy, because the government has put the costs on businesses that pass those costs on to you.


Costs are not reduced simply because you don't pay them. It would undoubtedly be cheaper for me to do without the medications that keep me alive and more vigorous in my old age than people of a similar age were in generations past.


Letting old people die would undoubtedly be cheaper than keeping them alive — but that does not mean that the costs have gone down. It just means that we refuse to pay the costs. Instead, we pay the consequences. There is no free lunch.


Providing free lunches to people who go to hospital emergency rooms is one of the reasons for the current high costs of medical care for others. Politicians mandating what insurance companies must cover is another free lunch that leads to higher premiums for medical insurance — and fewer people who can afford it.


Despite all the demonizing of insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies or doctors for what they charge, the fundamental costs of goods and services are the costs of producing them.


If highly paid chief executives of insurance companies or pharmaceutical companies agreed to work free of charge, it would make very little difference in the cost of insurance or medications. If doctors' incomes were cut in half, that would not lower the cost of producing doctors through years of expensive training in medical schools and hospitals, nor the overhead costs of running doctors' offices.


What it would do is reduce the number of very able people who are willing to take on the high costs of a medical education when the return on that investment is greatly reduced and the aggravations of dealing with government bureaucrats are added to the burdens of the work.


Britain has had a government-run medical system for more than half a century and it has to import doctors, including some from Third World countries where the medical training may not be the best. In short, reducing doctors' income is not reducing the cost of medical care, it is refusing to pay those costs. Like other ways of refusing to pay costs, it has consequences.


Any one of us can reduce medical costs by refusing to pay them. In our own lives, we recognize the consequences. But when someone with a gift for rhetoric tells us that the government can reduce the costs without consequences, we are ready to believe in such political miracles.


There are some ways in which the real costs of medical care can be reduced but the people who are leading the charge for a government takeover of medical care are not the least bit interested in actually reducing those costs, as distinguished from shifting the costs around or just refusing to pay them.


The high costs of "defensive medicine" — expensive tests, medications and procedures required to protect doctors and hospitals from ruinous lawsuits, rather than to help the patients — could be reduced by not letting lawyers get away with filing frivolous lawsuits.


If a court of law determines that the claims made in such lawsuits are bogus, then those who filed those claims could be forced to reimburse those who have been sued for all their expenses, including their attorneys' fees and the lost time of people who have other things to do. But politicians who get huge campaign contributions from lawyers are not about to pass laws to do this.


Why should they, when it is so much easier just to start a political stampede with fiery rhetoric and glittering promises?


http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell110309.php3







Mr. Polar Bear. I am not saying you are wrong or anything, but the majority of Canadians I've met seem to dislike the system you guys have. Same with the majority of British I've met likewise. However, I think that your opinion is insightful and helps give a balanced view to this debate.
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Old 11-11-2009
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Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman View Post
The "Costs" of Medical Care by Thomas Sowell

Mr. Polar Bear. I am not saying you are wrong or anything, but the majority of Canadians I've met seem to dislike the system you guys have. Same with the majority of British I've met likewise. However, I think that your opinion is insightful and helps give a balanced view to this debate.
Uh, then I don't think you've met many Canadians in Canada. In the last year I was in Emergency twice in downtown Toronto. The first one I was in and out within 90 minutes (stitches on badly gashed hand) and the second time. The second time I was checked out for a very serious issue requiring an MRI and was out within 6 hours after seeing 1 doctor and 1 specialist. No hassle, no phone call to the bank to mortgage my home to pay the bill! Yes, there are issues, but we all have easy access to high quality health care.

The rabid hyperbole is VERY similar to the rants and threats of strikes by the doctors in Saskatchewan where this was first introduced in the 50s. NOw you would be hard pressed to find a doctor who would want to go back to what you have in the US. The only difference with what we have in Canada and what there is in the US is that the government here pays the bill, not the user. We still have the freedom to chose who treats us, where and how.
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The "Costs" of Medical Care by Thomas Sowell
All of these arguments sound reasonable, but the truth of the matter is that good health care in many other countries is better, covers everybody and costs the government a lot.
There is a difference however, in most countries health care is not viewed as a profit making business. Look at the attitude of the bankers in this country in this country. They think its their right to make obscene incomes at our expense. The drug companies and the medical profession seem to have the same attitude.
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Old 11-11-2009
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They think its their right to make obscene incomes at our expense.
So success should be punished rather than rewarded? If you don't like Company A, go buy from Company B. Vote with your dollar.
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Old 11-11-2009
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So success should be punished rather than rewarded? If you don't like Company A, go buy from Company B. Vote with your dollar.
Hmmm. If memory is correct, it was the ineptitude of Wall street that was rewarded while John Q Public was left holding the bag.

Free markets and have their limits. Success is often masked as guys in suits robbing the public they claim to serve -- including HMOs!
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Hmmm. If memory is correct, it was the ineptitude of Wall street that was rewarded while John Q Public was left holding the bag.

Free markets and have their limits. Success is often masked as guys in suits robbing the public they claim to serve -- including HMOs!
But that does not pale in comparison to our benevolent Lord Zero and the multi TRILLION dollar bill that we are now stuck with. It ain't too hard to figure out the lesser of the two evils in this case. Private sector>Government.
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The study was done by doctors at Harvard, that would seem to provide it with considerable credibility.
I find it tragic that there are veterans that have fallen through the cracks and are not getting adequate health care.:
I guarantee you that there are more than 1.4 million veterans enrolled in the VA system considering there are 26,549,704* vets in the US and Puerto Rico. Also, your study does not differentiate as to whether or not those that were part of those roughly 2300 vets have had their healthcare voided due to felony convictions or other dishonorable behavior. Beating your spouse, illegal substance possession or any other felony will revoke your privliges faster than you can say,"I just fucked myself in the ass" and get your ass sent to Fort Leavenworth, Kansas(federal prison).


*http://www1.va.gov/vetdata/page.cfm?pg=1
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Old 11-12-2009
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Default Stimulus?

I got this from a friend this morning. I LOVE it!

Q. What is an Economic Stimulus payment?
A. It is money that the federal government will send to taxpayers.
Q. Where will the government get this money?
A. From taxpayers.

Q. So the government is giving me back my own money?
A. Only a smidgen.

Q. What is the purpose of this payment?
A. The plan is that you will use the money to purchase a high-definition TV set, thus stimulating the economy.

Q. But isn't that stimulating the economy of China ?
A. Shut up.

Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the US economy by spending Your stimulus check wisely:

. If you spend the stimulus money at Wal-Mart, the money will go to China .
. If you spend it on gasoline, your money will go to the Arabs.
. If you purchase a computer, it will go to India .
. If you purchase fruit or vegetables, it will go to Mexico , Honduras and Guatemala .
. If you buy a car, it will go to Japan .
. If you purchase useless stuff, it will go to Taiwan.
. If you pay off your credit cards, or buy stock, it will go to management bonuses, and they will hide it offshore.

Instead, keep the money in America by:
1. Spending it at yard sales, or
2. Going to ball games, or
3. Spending it on prostitutes, or
4. Beer, or
5. Tattoos.

(These are the only American businesses still operating in the US .)
It would be best if you went to a ball game with a tattooed prostitute that you met at a yard sale and drink American beer with all day.
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Old 11-12-2009
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It would be best if you went to a ball game with a tattooed prostitute that you met at a yard sale and drink American beer with all day.
As long as she's a tranny, it's all good. I love tatted trannies!
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Old 11-12-2009
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As long as she's a tranny, it's all good. I love tatted trannies!
Yes, that is something we agree on!
A cold beer and a hot tranny!
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Old 11-12-2009
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Originally Posted by randolph View Post
I got this from a friend this morning. I LOVE it!

Q. What is an Economic Stimulus payment?
A. It is money that the federal government will send to taxpayers.
Q. Where will the government get this money?
A. From taxpayers.

Q. So the government is giving me back my own money?
A. Only a smidgen.

Q. What is the purpose of this payment?
A. The plan is that you will use the money to purchase a high-definition TV set, thus stimulating the economy.

Q. But isn't that stimulating the economy of China ?
A. Shut up.

Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the US economy by spending Your stimulus check wisely:

. If you spend the stimulus money at Wal-Mart, the money will go to China .
. If you spend it on gasoline, your money will go to the Arabs.
. If you purchase a computer, it will go to India .
. If you purchase fruit or vegetables, it will go to Mexico , Honduras and Guatemala .
. If you buy a car, it will go to Japan .
. If you purchase useless stuff, it will go to Taiwan.
. If you pay off your credit cards, or buy stock, it will go to management bonuses, and they will hide it offshore.

Instead, keep the money in America by:
1. Spending it at yard sales, or
2. Going to ball games, or
3. Spending it on prostitutes, or
4. Beer, or
5. Tattoos.

(These are the only American businesses still operating in the US .)
It would be best if you went to a ball game with a tattooed prostitute that you met at a yard sale and drink American beer with all day.
And this is why free trade is a load of horse crap it made it even easier for big bussiness to move production over seas and another load of horse crap is by cutting business tax rate they'll move back yeah right tell me another one, The high unemplotment is not due to the high debit rate it is do to over twenty years of out sourcing and NAFTA, CAFTA and all the other free trade aggreements these aggreements would have been allright if anything was still made in the USA but nothing is anymore so were are now starting to feel the effects


Jerseygirl Jen
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Old 11-18-2009
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We already knew the democrats were corrupt because of organizations like ACORN that they wholeheartedly supported, and still support despite being shown to be the corrupt organization they are.

And how they like to spend billions-trillions on projects no one wants, and how their social policies have resulted in the recent financial meltdown, and how they want to move the US census to the White House, thereby taking control of an important driver of election processes, etc etc...

We now know that some of the money from the stimulus package is going to districts to create jobs. Only these are fictional districts. It has been happening in many states and US territories as well. There are hundreds of millions of dollars going... somewhere.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jobs-...ory?id=9097853

Do you really trust the government to take over health care?
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Old 11-18-2009
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In an interview with Fox News on Sunday, George H.W. Bush congratulated his son on running a "clean operation." Bush apparently wasn't paying very close attention. Everyone remembers weapons of mass destruction, the US attorney firings. But historians will note that those are only the beginning of the Bush administration scandals...

The Bush administration will leave the annals of presidential disrepute several times thicker than it found them. There's Iraq, the hospital visit to John Ashcroft, the US attorney firings. But historians will note that those are only the beginning of the Bush administration scandals. Does the name Jeff Gannon ring a bell? Boxgate? What about the anti-prostitution AIDS tsar who purchased the services of-wait for it-the D.C. Madam? The Daily Beast has put together 20 of Bush's greatest forgotten scandals.

Interior Department officials "frequently consumed alcohol at industry functions, had used cocaine and marijuana, and had sexual relationships with oil and gas company representatives."

Sex and Shoplifting

1) In March 2006, Claude Allen, Bush's top domestic policy aide, was arrested when he tried to return items he had shoplifted from Target for cash refunds. Allen, who made $161,000 a year, blamed stress from Hurricane Katrina.

2) In 2005, bloggers pricked up their ears when a reporter named Jeff Gannon asked a softball question at a Bush press conference. Some sleuthing turned up nude photos of Gannon-real name: James Guckert-on male escort websites.

3) Randall Tobias, Bush's AIDS tsar, mandated that organizations must oppose prostitution in order to receive American aid. It later emerged that Tobias purchased services through the notorious D.C. Madam, though Tobias maintained he only bought "massages."

4) The Interior Department's Minerals Management Service would not seem to be the sexiest government agency. But a departmental investigation last year found that officials had "frequently consumed alcohol at industry functions, had used cocaine and marijuana, and had sexual relationships with oil and gas company representatives."

Where'd the Money Go?

5) When testifying before Congress in 2007, L. Paul Bremer, the former head of reconstruction in Iraq, was unable to account for as much as $12 billion-about half of his budget-as the head of the Coalition Provisional Authority between May 2003 and June 2004. According to a report by Rep. Henry Waxman, contractors brought bags to meetings in order to collect shrink-wrapped bundles of money.

6) In 2004, Pentagon auditors found that Halliburton had not adequately accounted for $1.8 billion of the bill it sent to the United States government for its work in Iraq and Kuwait.

7) Also that year, Bunnatine Greenhouse, the Army Corps of Engineers' chief contracting officer, charged that KBR, a Halliburton subsidiary, unfairly received billions of dollars worth of no-bid contracts in Iraq. Greenhouse was demoted in 2005.

Disappearances

8) In 2002, Canadian citizen Maher Arar was detained at an airport in New York and spirited away to Syria, where he was tortured and held for 10 months by his captors before being returned home. Canadian officials investigated Arar's case, declared he was innocent, and paid him $9 million in compensation. American officials refused to admit the mistake and instead kept Arar on a terrorist watch list.

9) Army Captain James Yee, a Muslim chaplain in Guantanamo Bay, was hooded, shackled, and detained in solitary confinement for 76 days on charges of espionage. Within a year the case against Yee had collapsed and the Army tried to save face by charging him with hoarding pornography.

All the President's Wordsmiths

10) In an email to friends, Danielle Crittenden, the wife of White House speechwriter David Frum, bragged that her husband had written Bush's famous "Axis of Evil" line. The e-mail leaked to Slate, causing a minor scandal.

11) Part of the self-created mythology of White House speechwriter Michael Gerson was that he composed his speeches in longhand. But as fellow scribe Matthew Scully later noted: "At the precise moment when the State of the Union address was being drafted at the White House by John [McConnell] and me, Mike was off pretending to craft the State of the Union in longhand for the benefit of a reporter."

President Bush Ron Edmonds/AP No Administration Friend Left Behind

12) First there was Columnist Gate: In 2005, USA Today reported that conservative commentator Armstrong Williams received a $240,000 contract from the Department of Education to promote No Child Left Behind on his television show and to sell other African-American journalists on the legislation. Later, The Washington Post uncovered a similar deal with columnist Maggie Gallagher to promote a marriage initiative for the Department of Health.

13) A Defense Department report in 2006 urged the military to end its practice of paying Iraqi journalists to publish pro-American stories in their newspapers, arguing the tactic would "undermine the concept of a free press."

14) According to The New York Times, Karl Rove scored lobbyist Ralph Reed a lucrative contract with Enron in 1997 to gain his support in the 2000 presidential race.

15) David Safavian, the former chief of staff of the General Services Administration, was convicted of helping Jack Abramoff on a shady land deal as well as concealing a "lavish weeklong golf trip" paid for by Abramoff.

16) As head of the World Bank, Paul Wolfowitz was forced to resign in disgrace after he helped his "female companion," Shaha Riza, score a $60,000 pay raise and promotion-and then tried to cover it up.

Down the Memory Hole

17) Bush fundraiser Lurita Doan's gig as chair of the General Services Administration went down in flames when she was accused of asking agency staff to help Republican candidates win elections. Doan denied any wrongdoing. When witnesses said she asked her staff at a meeting, "How can we use GSA to help our candidates in the next election?" Doan claimed she had no memory of the presentation.

18) Though Army microbiologist Bruce Ivins, who committed suicide in 2008, was suspected of being the anthrax mailer, that didn't keep Bush and Cheney from openly speculating that Al Qaeda was behind the attacks and even going so far as to pressure FBI officials to come up with a bin Laden connection, according to the New York Daily News.

Mission Accomplished

19) In 2003, Bush went to a warehouse in St. Louis to give a speech titled "Strengthening America's Economy." But the boxes laid out before the presidential podium bore the label "Made in China." The labels were then obscured with white paper. The White House blamed an "overzealous advance volunteer."

The Last Word

20) The administration ethos was nicely summarized during the investigation in the firing of US attorneys, in a testy exchange between former White House Political Director Sara Taylor and Sen. Patrick Leahy. Taylor: "I took an oath to the president...And I believe that taking that oath means that I need to respect, and do respect, my service to the president." Leahy: "No, the oath says that you take an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States. That is your paramount duty. I know that the president refers to the government being his government-it's not."

Hi Tracy, just a little reminder of the wonderful Republican administration we just survived. Don't you think Republicans should clean up their own house before complaining about others?
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Old 11-18-2009
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Hi Tracy, just a little reminder of the wonderful Republican administration we just survived. Don't you think Republicans should clean up their own house before complaining about others?
I like how everyone thinks it's all about Democrat vs Repiblican and such nonsense. They are pretty much the same thing; just different labels.
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Old 11-18-2009
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In an interview with Fox News on Sunday, George H.W. Bush congratulated his son on running a "clean operation." Bush apparently wasn't paying very close attention. Everyone remembers weapons of mass destruction, the US attorney firings. But historians will note that those are only the beginning of the Bush administration scandals...
I haven't heard of many of those things, but some of the things I have heard of, like WMD cannot be blamed on Bush alone, no matter how hard libs try.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5p-qIq32m8

I didn't read most of that because I never said Bush was the solid example of small government. For some reason there's the automatic assumption that I'm a Bush fan. I will defend him against lies from the left, and I can see why he did a lot of what he did, but I wouldn't say I'm a fan. There's a lot I didn't like about him as well.

Actually there's debate within the republican party between moving towards the center (i.e. the left) or staying with tried & true conservatism. For the republicans, I say it's Small Government stupid.

Bottom line, making up districts to funnel money to who knows where is pretty crooked.
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