Self Defense

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Tread

In my opinion they are stupid, there is no way out of a surrounded house, and they are going longer in jail by doing this and even longer (maybe death penalty) if they kill people.

If this is in reference to the robbers who broke into my sisters house, then yes, they are stupid. I won't argue that. But they are the exception, not the rule.

Originally Posted by Tread

Usually the lock is the most stabile part of the door, then the door itself and the door angles are the weakest. I don't know how it is with your door knob combined with look. It seems to get easier to the mechanics cause a big part is in front of the door.
There is a big variety of cylinder locks, Pin Tumbler Locks are not the only ones. If the hardware store sells such mass product keys, I wouldn't use it for my main door. But it needs a lot of luck to find a fitting lock that opens with your key if you are on the run after a bank robbery.

If this sort of crime is common, yourself or people you know are victims of this, I can comprehend your home defence point of view.

Actually the hinges are stronger as opposed to the lock. You have more points of contact on the hinges compared to the deadbolt. Deadbolts and Doorjambs can be busted open by a wellplaced flathead screwdriver and a swift kick(I know because I got locked out of my home once )

Again, what happened to my sis was the exception, not the norm. A smarter criminal would get keys no problem and make for a cleaner job; your run of the mill street thug is rather impulsive and stupid. Home burglaries are common; the occurence of break-ins just depends on where you live at.




*Sorry for dragging this on. Talking to you is rather enjoyable*

[Tread]

No need to excuse.

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

Again, what happened to my sis was the exception, not the norm. A smarter criminal would get keys no problem and make for a cleaner job; your run of the mill street thug is rather impulsive and stupid. Home burglaries are common; the occurence of break-ins just depends on where you live at.

If it is the exception I don't see the need for extra a home defence weapon.
A good equipped would use an electronic lock pick. Opens every Pin Tumbler Lock in one or two seconds. The easiest way would be a crowbar.
Home burglaries are not killer, and I think they don't want to become one. Smart ones would observe before break in so they can get most profit out of it with low risk to get caught.

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

Actually the hinges are stronger as opposed to the lock. You have more points of contact on the hinges compared to the deadbolt. Deadbolts and Doorjambs can be busted open by a wellplaced flathead screwdriver and a swift kick(I know because I got locked out of my home once )

Take a wafer tumbler lock and a screwdriver doesn't work.
Maybe we are talking about different doors and locks.
1. pic: Is that how your locks look like? (was a good pic of it never mind what language)
2. pic: These I know the best. A big snapper and a separate lock bolt, but more bolts turned at the same time are not rare. The lock is fully in the door. It seems like that the doorframe is also much thicker.

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Tread

If it is the exception I don't see the need for extra a home defence weapon.

The whole bank-robber-breaking-into-my sisters-house is not the norm. However someone breaking into a house looking for valuables is far more likely to occur. Locks are not impenetrable. With the right tools even the toughest of locks can be broken. All locks do is buy time for someone to ready themselves against attack. If you use locks and various devices to safeguard your valuables, why would you not have an added assurance for your most valuable possession; your life? Saying that you will never need to protect yourself from bodily harm because locks will always deterr someone is like not having a Plan B. It's like the old infantry saying goes,"If your assault is going as planned, you are walking into an ambush."

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

Originally Posted by Tread

Take a wafer tumbler lock and a screwdriver doesn't work.
Maybe we are talking about different doors and locks.
1. pic: Is that how your locks look like? (was a good pic of it never mind what language)
2. pic: These I know the best. A big snapper and a separate lock bolt, but more bolts turned at the same time are not rare. The lock is fully in the door. It seems like that the doorframe is also much thicker.

I haven't encountered many doorknobs like the second one. I take it those are more prevalent in dwellings where you live rather than here in the US. I've only seen them on school doors and Gov. buildings and I've seen them get opened by a credit card or something of similar thickness.

[Rachel]

When seconds count the police are only minutes away!

[KittyKaiti]

The fact is, Tread, that no matter what the risk is, whether low or high, it is not smart to be unprepared for any form of attack. I don't care what the statistics are or what happens more or less frequently. The fact is that at any time, an armed robbery or other home invasion can occur and I would rather have a weapon, preferably a firearm, ready to kill a motherer, should someone come breaking down my door.

[Tread]

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

If you use locks and various devices to safeguard your valuables, why would you not have an added assurance for your most valuable possession; your life? Saying that you will never need to protect yourself from bodily harm because locks will always deterr someone is like not having a Plan B. It's like the old infantry saying goes,"If your assault is going as planned, you are walking into an ambush."

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

I don't think Thief's want to fight with the house owner or getting identified, and I don't think they kill everyone they met while breaking in. Also I don't think it is a, if I don't shoot him he will harm me, situation. But I don't know how it is in a county where nearly every criminal is armed with guns.
An ambush at military, war or on the street is different and can happens, but at your home? And if someone creates an ambush at your home you're dead before you notice anything.

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

I haven't encountered many doorknobs like the second one. I take it those are more prevalent in dwellings where you live rather than here in the US. I've only seen them on school doors and Gov. buildings and I've seen them get opened by a credit card or something of similar thickness.

The door overlap the wall, so there is not a directly gap to the snapper. A credit card is not long and not flexible enough to open the snapper. Have most US doors a direct gap to the snapper/bolt?
The lock and key service have cards that can do this, but this only works with the snapper and not with the bolt that locks the door. It happens often that people accordantly shut a door, without handle or knob on the outside, and forgot the key. I guess you experienced it by locking you out, as the most do with doors that only can be open with a key form outside.

Originally Posted by KittyKaiti

The fact is, Tread, that no matter what the risk is, whether low or high, it is not smart to be unprepared for any form of attack. I don't care what the statistics are or what happens more or less frequently. The fact is that at any time, an armed robbery or other home invasion can occur and I would rather have a weapon, preferably a firearm, ready to kill a motherer, should someone come breaking down my door.

You could also prepare against fire (much higher risk) with an automatic fire-extinguishing system, protect your house and you against meteorites or prepare for naturally viruses, dirty bombs, biological, or chemical weapons with face masks or ABC-Masks.

It would save much more life if more people would learn first aid than having a gun for home defense.

Why should a Thief kill you and should other people invade your home?

[KittyKaiti]

Well, I own two fire extinguishers, have a gas mask and was trained for first aid and CPR, so.... your point?

Wait.... did you just say what I think you said?

"It would save much more life if more people would learn first aid than having a gun for home defense"

Are you saying that it would be better for me or a roommate to get shot, stabbed, etc and for me to know how to save her life rather than for me to own a firearm and kill the intruder before he can do anything? -_- >.> <.<


"Why should a Thief kill you and should other people invade your home?"

I dunno, ask them the next time you meet one. They do it because they're stupid, poor, an asshole or who knows.

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Tread

But I don't know how it is in a county where nearly every criminal is armed with guns.
An ambush at military, war or on the street is different and can happens, but at your home? And if someone creates an ambush at your home you're dead before you notice anything.

Not every criminal is armed with a gun. Alot more crimes are committed with knives and bludgeoning weapons nowadays.


You misinterpreted what I was trying to convey with the whole "ambush" thing. I was trying to bring the point across that you should always have a back up plan. Locks, while useful, won't stop a determined criminal. All they do is buy you time to ready yourself. There is only so much you can do defensively before you have to go on the offense. Should I go on the offense, I would like to have a weapon that I can easily reach out and touch someone with rather than having to get up close to use a weapon.

Saying that locks are good enough seems rather shortsighted. Afterall, if locks did such a good job, we would not have to worry about home invasions. Having a weapon at home is like having an insurance policy; It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

[JodieTs]

Originally Posted by Tread

It would save much more life if more people would learn first aid than having a gun for home defense.

Why should a Thief kill you and should other people invade your home?

Originally Posted by KittyKaiti

Only an idiot would say something like "What are the chances of a home invasion actually happening? I don't really need to be prepared."
Now if you're like me and live in the ghetto and are a transsexual, you are at extraordinary risk of assault, rape, murder, home invasion, etc. I highly recommend arming yourself if you fall into this category of "high risk persons", such as myself.

In Europe and pretty much everywhere in the world, you have been stripped of your only defense against totalitarianism. Look at the United Kingdom. ...decaying into Police States and the people have no defense.

The UK is shit. And yes it has become a police state.
All the criminals are armed.
The rest of us are not.
it is illegal.
Even if we defend ourselves we are arrested.
And Transsexual women are very high up the stats for being murdered.
If you whore as well, your life expectancy drops to that of a Mayfly.

dailymail.co.uk Manchester-shopkeeper-72-stabs-armed-robber-death-florists.html
Yesterday, a 72 year old florist was playing dominoes.
His shop was shut.
Two armed men broke in.
There was a scuffle.
One of the armed robbers was fatally stabbed.
The shopkeeper was injured and taken to hospital.
The shopkeeper was also arrested on suspicion of murder.

For fucks sake, he should have been given a community medal and award.
He was later cleared. www.independent.co.uk/florist-raider-cleared-of-murde But that's not the point. He shouldn't have been arrested.
Norway. If some of those 75+ murdered teenagers had been armed then that nutter would have been killed before he had spent a whole hour executing them all.

Europe is shit.