Feared or Respected?

In graduate school, I attended a seminar on leadership taught by Lt. General Dave Palmer (one-time commandant of West Point). The issue of "Fear or Respect" came up and the consensus was that it depends on the situation. If one is commanding troops in battle, there is no room for an "intellectual discussion"--orders must be obeyed. If one is an "ER" or "OR" doctor, immediate "life and death" decisions must be made--no time for discussion. If one is a CEO of a company in trouble--hard decisions must be made--for better or for worse. If one is the President of the US and the "3 AM phone call" comes... same thing.

In all of the examples above, I'm sure the General, Doctor, CEO, and President would prefer to be "respected." Given the immediacy and gravity of the situation however, there is not time to worry about it. If they must be "feared" to accomplish what must be done, then so be it.

Personally, in my own career I choose "respect." I can't imagine any case where I would want or need to have my colleagues or students "fear" me. In fact, "fear" would be counterproductive in that it would limit open discussion and inquiry.

Perhaps the best treatise on "fear and love (respect)" was written almost 500 years ago...

"Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.

Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well being feared whilst he is not hated, which will always be as long as he abstains from the property of his citizens and subjects and from their women. But when it is necessary for him to proceed against the life of someone, he must do it on proper justification and for manifest cause, but above all things he must keep his hands off the property of others, because men more quickly forget the death of their father than the loss of their patrimony. Besides, pretexts for taking away the property are never wanting; for he who has once begun to live by robbery will always find pretexts for seizing what belongs to others; but reasons for taking life, on the contrary, are more difficult to find and sooner lapse. But when a prince is with his army, and has under control a multitude of soldiers, then it is quite necessary for him to disregard the reputation of cruelty, for without it he would never hold his army united or disposed to its duties."

Returning to the question of being feared or loved, I come to the conclusion that, men loving according to their own will and fearing according to that of the prince, a wise prince should establish himself on that which is in his own control and not in that of others; he must endeavour only to avoid hatred, as is noted."

Nicolo Machiavelli -- "The Prince"

[DSL]

I was wondering how can we have fear in a forum? i do have respect for
others in here no doubt about that but to have fear,
i have no fear... or any where outside either.

what i wanted to know is can we have fear in a forum?

[johndowe]

Originally Posted by DSL

I was wondering how can we have fear in a forum? i do have respect for
others in here no doubt about that but to have fear,
i have no fear... or any where outside either.

what i wanted to know is can we have fear in a forum?

Hi there.

Well, not to sound like a know it all, but it is possible but not really probable, the only fear i can see as possible is if someone disclosed a guarded secret and would be afraid of being discovered, that kind of thing, intimidations might be possible but, one can always close the window and never come back, which doesn't necesarily imply fear, but maby anoyance?

No fear outside the forum in the real world? I underatand that if you don't cross people they shouldn't cross you, and if you respect everybody they should respect you back, but there are assholes and gangs out there, and they usually "don't take prisonners", (the gangs) so i don't know how to put this any better than this; are you oblivious to what is happening around you?

Have you read my LOOONG post in this thread, when i said i was nervous when the 4 guys were around me it was fear that made me nervous and them too, so i am not without fear and never pretended to be, and when i am in a confrontation there is almost always at least a little bit of fear, the thing is to not show your fear and to control it so it doesn't debilitate you, but no fear at all ever? I am doubtfull, even if you do not get into confrontations, life can get scary at times.

JohnDowe.

To all my friends on this forum (this includes you too JohnDowe!):

I find these conversations quite interesting and enjoyable but it would be nice to know a little bit more about some of you. I really am the guy in the picture and yes, all of the stuff I've listed and talked about in my posts is true. If I were lying, I would've said I really am Hugh Jackman and married to Kelly Shore (in my dreams!), and in my spare time I am Director of NASA, and Obama's top security adviser! Oh, and I taught Tom Brady everything he knows about playing quaterback! LOL!

Seriously, I completely understand why anyone would be reluctant to share and I respect each and everyone's reasons. Just would be interested in knowing more about you. For what it's worth, this has been a great place to hang out and I look forward to coming here each day for whatever reasons.

Later...

I see that you are all seeking a more “personal” definition of “respect vs. fear.” I think it is a great question worthy of discussion. My only problem with it here is that I find it hard to discuss things like this online without actually knowing the participants. Also, it may be slightly “off topic” for this forum. I’d much rather talk about “Kelly Shore” or “Camila Saenz”…

Many years before I became a "respected" Associate Professor--back in high school and college I played football, rode a motorcycle, listened to Metallica, and was considered something of a “badass” or "hooligan." I was the guy who was “voted most likely to succeed or end up on the 10 most wanted list.” LOL The last time I got into a fight and “beat the shit” out of someone was my Freshman year of college and fortunately for me it was considered “self defense.”

Somewhere along the way I “grew up” and focused my energies on more “productive” endeavors like studying hard, thinking about a career other than in the NFL, being a good husband, etc. Our society typically doesn’t condone violence as a solution to personal disagreements and “kicking someone’s ass” can more often than not, land you in jail. Where you will get lots of “love and respect” from your fellow inmates! LOL

My reaction to someone’s “in your face” response now would be to laugh and walk away. Where it goes from there is up to the other person. I have never had anyone pursue it further. Kind of like “flipping the bird” to someone while driving. Do you really want to “kill” the other driver? There was a well publicized “road rage” incident here just a few weeks ago. The driver who felt “disrespected” is now facing his day in court. Again, years of “love and respect” from your new “cellmates.”

The clear exception would be if someone posed an immediate threat to myself or my family. That is another matter entirely and involves principles of “self defense.” If you want to read a great book on the issues involved in using deadly force, I suggest “In the Gravest Extreme” by Massad Ayoob.

Peace (and Respect)…

[johndowe]

Hi there.

In the example of the general, the ceo and the doc, if the respect is already established, the orders issued might be ill recieved by the subordinates, but will probably be forgiven considering the urgency of the situation, so the abruptness is understandable and almost expected, once they come face to face with the problem.

As for love and respect, i'm not sure i agree with all of it but there are points of merit, irregardless how great the man was, nobody is perfect, not even me, but, i will meditate on this.

JohnDowe.