Bigmouth

[Ogryn1313]

Originally Posted by SluttyShemaleAnna

Faulty intelligence? You still believe that? Let's see, there's hte lie about the uranium, the dosier that turned out to be a plagiarised thesis from after the first war, the whole David Kelly thing, the 45 minuite lie, that's just off the top of my head. I knew there were no WMD in iraq, we all knew it. Everything we (the Anti war proesters) said turned out to be true, everything they said turned out to be a lie. All the 'intelligence' they released were revealed as lies by the press.

Facts: Al Samoud missiles were found and destroyed by who? Oh the UN

What middle eastern country in in breach of hte most UN resolutions, over 100 of them? Oh look it's Israel.

What middle eastern country was caught secretly developing nuclear weapons? Oh it's Israel again.

What middle eastern country has never started a war or invaded any of it's neighbours? Oh it's that super dangerous country Iran.

"I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him" - Ariel Sharon. There's a nice popular quote from Sharon, I've never seen evidence he said it, just like I've never seen any evidence that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Israel should be wiped off the map.

If Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's denial of the holocaust make him evil, does Japan's denial of thier WW2 atrocities make them evil? Does Turkey's denial of the Armenian Genocide make them evil? Iran is threatened with war, and Turkey is given weapons and offered nuclear secrets.

If you want to look at those who fund terrorists, who funded the IRA for years? Who funded Al Quieda when thier terrorism was directed against the soviets? Who supported Saddam and gave him chemical weapons? Who was his ally when he commited his biggest atrocities?

Continued oppression and human rights violations? What country are we talking about here? That could apply to any number of US allies, including all those countries that the US sends prisoners to. Lets see, what human rights violations have occured since sadam is gone, and who is perpetrating them?

Oh Iraq tried to shoot down planes violating it's airspace? Planes that were bombing it constantly? Blowing up stuff like penicillin factories.

The US doesn't care about democracy, all it cares about is whether natins are pro or anti US. It props up dictatorships all over the world so long as they are pro US. In 1953, the US and Britain deposed the democraticly elected Prime minister of Iran because he was too socialist for their liking. The US had no objection to rule by a brutal dictator, so long as he was a US friendly brutal dictator.

US double standards are unending.

The US objective is, and always had been, power and control.

Much of the things you trot out, whether true or not are things open to interpretation and ideological bias. Thus you can deny a thing I would support and vice versa. Neither of which really matters.

You drag Israel into this for some reasons. I'm a person who believes Israel must do whatever it requires to defend itself as it is surrounded by enemies. And historically, Israel has cooperated more with America and the UN than it's enemies. So if they have some resolutions they've violated so be it.

I'm sorry to say you strike me as one of those far left intellectual elitist types. The kind with a clear and obvious anti-American stance. The kind of person who will tenaciously cling to their argument and evidence (even in occasions when their evidence is thin) to support their argument. Thus, I feel anything you say isn't necessarily being said out of the truth of the issue but rather your hatred of a particular nation.

Now I could be wrong. It's been known to happen from time to time. And I would hope I'm wrong in this instance. But all I see is argumentative hate speech directed at the United States. The same kind of stuff I see in the far left newspapers, blogs, and from people like Michael Moore, Code Pink, and Rosie O'Donnel. I am beginning to think you have swallowed a specific ideology hook line and sinker and let this ideology think for you.

Now, you could..just as easily accuse me of the same thing and chalk me up to being some kind of unintelligent and blindly patriotic American because I choose to defend my nation and will not overlook it's good points. But the difference, thus far, between you and I is that I don't solely focus on the negative. I see the flaws and the good in all things. If you are just another ideologue you probably only see the flaws. It is made evident in your hateful tone and use of moral equivalency. The latter is often a tool of the ideologues to mitigate the failings of their hateful views. Moral equivalency is never a good thing to embrace and use to back up arguments. The issue at hand is the United States. And to make comparisons with other things is moral equivalency. Such as your comparing Israel to the Hussein Iraq. You do it to mitigate the issue and spin it in your favor.

Moral equivalency is dangerous. The state of Vermont's legislature primarily is made up of secular progressives, who are a component of the far-left ideology. And they embrace moral equivalency. Such to the extent it has affected their law making. This is why child molester's in Vermont can get excessively light sentences. Now, this is just an example. But I hope you see my point that when trying to compare things on a morally equivalent basis, to back up an ideology, is illogical and doesn't produce good results in debate. It's a means to deflect from the core issue.

Also, we didn't fund Al Qaeda during the Afghan Soviet War. They didn't exist. Bin Laden wasn't on our payroll and didn't any form of training by American representatives. See, this is the myth. Here is the truth: Bin Laden did fight the Soviets. And he may well have had access to American weapons. We did indeed fund the Afghans to fight the Soviets.

What people who cling to this myth don't understand is why Bin Laden went to fight. We all know he is an Arab. Not an Afghan. So why should he bother? He bothered because he answered an Islamic call to arms along with 1000's of others from around the Islamic world. They poured in to help their Islamic Afghan brothers fight the infidels. So his connection, as people like you imply, to America is a myth. Funny how people can easily manipulate facts for ideological purposes. Bin Laden came into Afghanistan on his own. I'm sure some in the far left will produce documentation or second hand information to suggest we specifically sought him out, offered him training and weapons. And there are fools who believe this kind of shit. Don't be one.

I'll use a simple analogy to describe the US and Bin Laden link: it'd be like me throwing a big party and I invited you to come Anna. But then you brought some friends with you I didn't invite. That's the connection. That's all it is. Al Qaeda didn't even exist then. The organization came after that war.

So, as you see, I didn't deny our involvement in Afghanistan. And I didn't deny Bin Laden was there. It's all about how one interprets the facts and evidence without letting their political ideology bias their interpretations. Thus far, you show me you are purely biased. You embrace evidence presented that backs you up completely and unquestioningly while dismissing the possibility counter-evidence could be right, and mitigate and twist things using moral equivalency.

You're proving to be frustrating and yet interesting. I do enjoy our back and forth. And, at least you're sticking to your guns Anna.