Meditation and Dreams: Share your experience

[sesame]

Originally Posted by sesame

But the questions here are:
1) does he also forget of being human?
2) does he also forget of ever having a body?
3) If the Ego is dissolved, then who is asking the questions?
4) And to whom?
5) If there is no ego or previous memory, then where from comes the concept of "who" (=identity), where (=place), I am (=existence), when (=time) and finally, I (=ego)
Without any ego, there is no such thing as I, we, here, AND you, there, this or that. With an ego, there arises a feeling of separation from the rest of the universe. Me (I) and the rest of the world.
The bubble of I-ness or ego differentiates me from the outer world.

Even though I support Vedanta theory, I support the I-ness theory of Yoga and stand aside from Vedanta in the final stage. I dont want to be dissolved or annihilated into the Infinite. I wish to retain my separate identity. But... we can discuss about that at a later stage.

Originally Posted by GRH

At its purest, ego dissolution negates the concept of "human" and "body" alike. Even the premise of asking questions becomes silly. You become the question, and you become the answer simultaneously. You become all that ever was, is, and is to be. "You" (in the formal sense") simply ARE...Simply EXISTING.

Here we will diverge, as the final implications of Vedanta I hold close and have experienced. This is where I have gotten into conflict with much Western religion, that perptetual attachment to identity. I think many come close, but they wish to deny the final truth, out of their own selfish desire to retain that fundamental sense of ego...That fundamental sense of being something "special" and "separate." That said, it is a nice attachment to cling to, and I fault nobody for it. But I'm not convinced that "I" in the sense that I currently perceive myself to be will ever exist beyond this moment. The remainder of this philosophical discussion would probably be better suited to your meditation thread, Sesame.

The Vedanta says that the Absolute Consciousness, Brahman, being one without any second is the only thing that really exists beyond all this illusion. Since this Impersonal All-pervading Entity is the source of all bliss, it is the purpose of all individual souls to finally merge into this Brahman and lose their unique identities. The analogy is this...

Individual souls, like you and me, while investigating the Nature of Truth, go nearer and nearer to the Purest state of Consciousness which is Brahman. It is like: tiny toys made of salt, enter the vast ocean full of salty water, trying to measure the depth of the ocean. In doing so, they dissolve into the ocean and become part of it.

God or Brahman is pure and infinite Joy, immeasurable Love and timeless in nature and the Source of everything. But He or Brahman (in Vedanta) is not God in the sense we are used to. It is beyond that scope. God has the World and Devotees with him to rule over. But Brahman is all inclusive. Where Brahman is, there is no second being or object, there is only Brahman. Nobody meets Brahman, but merges into Him. The Worlds dont exist in Brahman. It is Absolute Unity into the Source. (beyond name, form or duality). Advaita Vedanta= Non-Dual Essence of the Vedas.
Therefore, some proponents of Yoga have said, Brahman is a mountain of sugar and I am an ant who loves to taste sugar. I have no intention of becoming the mountain, but to taste it for ever and ever. This can only be done by purifying one's consciousness to the finest degree, but retaining some king of ego to maintain a pure yet, separate identity. The Yogi's pure ego is not to be confused with the desire-infested ego of a worldly man. It is called Nija-bodh. Nija= I am, bodh= consciousness. It is like a fine bubble that allows him to maintain a separate identity or personality in spite of being so close to All-pervading God. The Yogi's ego is a means of self protection from permanent dissolution.
I prefer the Yogi's fate more than that of the annihilated Vedanta Philosopher. God was, Is, and will be forever. What benefit is there if my identity merges and vanishes into Him? There will be no change. So, why not maintain a separate identity and yet enjoy His immensity? Is that not a better choice?

Vedanta's ultimate state: Brahmavid Brahmaiva bhavati. => The knower of Brahman becomes Brahman Himself. (ie, the small ego merges into the Infinite)
Yogi's Ultimate state: Kaivalya. Keval= Only. It means I become free from dependance of everything. The objects of the world, nature, universe, Gods, whoever,...I dont need anything. I become a Liberated soul, free from everything forever.

From my point of view, the Yogi remains and yet is free.
And the Vedanta Philosopher becomes free, but remains no more