Coakley Is Out--brown Wins
 

So far 52-47 she has called Scott Brown and conceded. Now watch what the Obama regime comes up with.

Just when things were looking good. Now this! I don't know whats worse -- the result or the self righteous gloating of Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck. Jon Stewart don't fail the US now!

Yeah, it really sucks when the American people finally get their say after a year of being shut out of backroom deals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=662R2awSwPQ

TRACY:

Where are you from? UK?


TAL

Nope, USA.

Sometimes change isn't a good thing.

Then
"Ask not what your country can do for you"
"Ask what you can do for your country"

Now
"We can keep screwing the American people because we control their pathetic government"

No, the dems don't have a super majority anymore.

God, Guts, and Guns.

As opposed to the decades where 50 million people have been shut out of proper medical care? Puhleeze!

Liberal Dems Have Had Thier Warning
 

I get the funny feeling that you are a flaming liberal that approves of what Obama and the Liberal Dems have done for the last year. Neber has a party done so many back room deal and blatantly come right out and tell us to go fuck ourselves. I was listening to a dem senator last night that said being held in Washington for the last 20 weekends and not being able to go home and listen to our people was a huge mistake.

I really think that you should relisten to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=662R2awSwPQ

This is only January and look at the changes. Stay tuned............

So make health insurance more affordable. How bout Tort reform? No?? Why is that off the table? You're not going to have proper medical health care if you hand the operation over to the government. Do you know of anything the government has managed well? This is not something you just go change without taking a damn good look at it. Because it cannot be undone.

Understand this. No matter what form health care takes, there will be at least 50 million people who are unhappy with it. If we have to use the health care the dems want to force on us then the 85% of the people who are currently happy with health care will be pissed.

You mean like this?

Or this....

EAT THIS!!!!

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

This is where the hyperbole makes me role my eyes. Having lived and worked in 3 countries and continents where public health-care is the norm, the McCarthy era tactics coupled with "Reefer Madness" hystria is laughable. NO system is perfect, but the experience I've had in Australia, England and Canada has been the same -- walk in, see a doctor, get treated and leave. When I needed specialists I saw them. It's that simple.

All it takes is money. And guess what? Right now we're in the hole $12 trillion. As I said, the first place to start is by cutting costs, like tort reform.

When republicans see a deficit, they cut costs. When democrats see a deficit they raise taxes and add costs.

Yeah! And who will lead us in these tough times? How about....Ken and Barbie!!!!!!

well i hope our ruler in the white house sees hes a 1 term idiot

time to take america back

He's too much of an idiot--he thinks that Brown and Him got elected for the same reasons--that people wanted change from the last 8 years. WRONG WRONG WRONG YOU IDIOT People are sick of Obama and all the idiot liberals and the closed doors.

Say What?
 

TRACY:

Good point!! Bush 41 left a deficit for Clinton, Clinton left a surplus for Bush 43, Bush 43 left a whopping deficit for Obama.

Conse 'Pubs put us in a hole with tax cuts, and The Dems have to pay the bill. Then, Conse 'Pubs say we cut taxes, and Dems raise taxes. Will that Conse 'Pub vote be cash or charge? AHHHHHHHHH!!!!


TAL, a Mod Dem--left of center

CCC:

You didn't say why Obama got elected?


TAL, a Mod Dem

Republican tranny chasers make me laugh...

What an awesome party you support:

http://michiganmessenger.com/33506/p...etary-of-state

Hypocracy
 

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
 

BIONCA:

Those are the ones in the corner of their closets: like that Craig guy, that coked-out preacher with a male prostitute, like that congressman with DC pages, and that GOP.com gay reporter at The WH.

Piece,

TAL

BIONCA:

Maybe, they're the only straight guys here? What say you?


Piece,


TAL

Hey, everyone, just a general reminder: you can insult the politicians all you want (so long as no inappropriate racial language is used), but not other members of the forum. And by "insult" I mean inappropriate name-calling. You're all adults, so I don't think you need more of an explanation than that. Just please, give us moderators a break and keep your posts to the issues when responding to others' posts.

BIONCA:

Do you think they're from the south?


Piece,


TAL

where were any people in america shut out?
the last time i look theres a law that ers cant refuse treatment!
if you have proof please provide it as the democrat line is bs

Drs have an oath, not a law. They can (and do) break it if they can get away with it. Google Tyra Hunter.

I'll not bait the connies here, and won't imply being gay is an insult by dragging Mr Haggard, Craig, and Gannon (?) into this.

For the record, I'm not overly fond of the Dems, and I think they threw this race by running the worst candidate with a shady history. If they don't have the magic 60 in the Senate, they can blame the Republicans for stalling on the things they promised (and had no intention of moving on). The Dems are cowards and have been moving more and more right since I started voting.

I'll give the Republicans credit in holding to their base and playing on their fears of teh commiez and teh kweerz... and actually giving them results with regressive laws, pointless social legislation, and culture war of their own making and perpetuation.

the ers cant refuse treatment
and thats the bottom line

Yeah right, Bush cut taxes and spent like crazy. Going from a surplus to a big deficit. :frown:

Tyra Hunter refused treatment by an EMT in DC because she was a pre-op trans woman after a car accident. She was further refused treatment by the Drs in the ER. - She died due to lack of care.

Insurance in the US does not have to cover transition related care, so they largely expressly exclude such care. This extends to covering anything even remotely related to transition. If I get breast cancer.. guess who doesn't have to pay - and guess who won't pay because they don't have to.

Trans people are regularly shut out of basic medical care either because Drs view them as far to exotic to treat, mis-diagnose their problems as the results of hormone treatment, or because they can't afford the treatments.

I doubt that. They've been pushing this since last summer and all this time until now they've had a super majority. The dems couldn't even get their own party to accept that trash. And the country certainly didn't want it.

News flash: Bush isn't a textbook conservative. And it was while congress was controlled by Dems under Bush that they spent the most.

Complete this sentence: If Bush spent like crazy, Obama spent like _____

BIONCA:

The Connies? As in Connie Mack? Or as in Connie Chung? LOL!!

This is not an insult, but the ones that hide behind conservative republican values are in a doorless closet.


Piece,


TAL

Oh, I see. The deficit under Bush was not his fault but the deficit under Obama is his fault. :innocent:

(sigh) The people who are shut out are the ones who can't afford or put off preventative visits that are NOT emergencies but often lead to one. Treatable infections, heart murmurs, type one diabetes, hypertension... where shall I stop? Or how about the people who opt for the treatment they can afford which is second rate at best and at it's worst is ineffective and leads to an early death. The proof is not in the ER -- it's in a neighborhood near you.

LOCAL:

Nice try! But to Conse 'Pubs those people are only talking points and/or lies, and not a reality, because if they were real it would injure their POV.

It's seeing with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.


TAL

This has been posted a few times, but here it is yet again:
Bush with mixed congress: $11B deficit
Bush with republican congress: $339B deficit
Bush with democrat congress: $704B deficit

Obama with democrat congress: $2.7 Trillion deficit

I'm blaming Bush and the republican congress for the $339B deficit. The $704B deficit with the democratic congress, not so much. And I'm definitely blaming BO and the democratic congress for the $2.7 trillion deficit.

Tell me where I am wrong?

Ah cum on Tracy, it all has to do with inflation. :turnon::inlove::lol:

Let this be a lesson to you kids. Study hard. Get whatever scholarships you can and get into college. Make yourself marketable and get a job that pays for your health insurance. What... do you want me to pay for your laziness?

haha... keep trying ;)

Well, you see Tracy, in the old days Republicans believed that the government should be thrifty. Then they watched the popularity of the Democrats increase as they spent more money. So the Republicans began to spend more money and the public liked that so they spent even more money. Well, not to be outdone by the Republicans, the Democrats spent even more money. As Cheney once said, the deficit is meaningless. So now we are in a race to see who can spend the most money.
So you know the result of all this -INFLATION!!!!!! :eek:

Oh, good! :yes:
Bionca's my friend, so now I won't have to argue with her and--

HEY! What happened to the whole "I'll not bait the connies" part??? :eek:

Well, first of all, I think it's a GOOD thing to be against "commiez" and communism, as a political line of thought, in general. In fact, I think most Americans would pretty much agree with that one.

As for "teh kweerz", correct me if I'm wrong -- but isn't it the Democrats who always say they're in favor of Gay rights... who campaign on "gay friendly" issues every election season, in order to lock up the voting block... but who THEN conveniently get amnesia AFTER they've won and are put into office?

Last I checked, Obama -- yes, Democrat -- as well as BOTH the House and Senate, which are controlled by -- yes, Democrats -- have spent an entire year conveniently NOT addressing the military "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which they likewise said they'd repeal IF they were elected into office as a majority. Hmm...and come to think of it, they've run as fast as possible from any gay marriage initiatives too, haven't they? Speaking as a California resident, I don't recall the Democratic party REALLY extending themselves very much to defeat Prop 8 (the gay marriage amendment) or even throwing much effort into the fight.

Look, the Republicans aren't saints here. There's no question the FAR right -- the so-called "religious right" -- is always going to strike an adversarial tone. On the other hand, when polled most moderate Republicans actually in favor of things that would help the gay community, and now you even have people like Cindy McCain lending her image and voice in ads towards repealing Prop 8 and fighting FOR gay marriage in California. Tell you what, get back to me when Michelle Obama puts it on the line as much.

All I'm saying is this -- I just wish the gay community wouldn't be so quick, as a voting block, to continually throw themselves in automatically with the Democrats just because they are continually led to believe that THIS is the time that they'll finally get what they want...only then they don't. For that matter, I feel the same way about the African-American community too. At some point, much like the Martha Coakley upset, people simply need to vote for the person they actually BELIEVE is going to bring about the political changes they believe in, rather than just mindlessly voting a party line. :)

************************************************
All I'm saying is this -- I just wish the gay community wouldn't be so quick, as a voting block, to continually throw themselves in automatically with the Democrats just because they are continually led to believe that THIS is the time that they'll finally get what they want...only then they don't. For that matter, I feel the same way about the African-American community too. At some point, much like the Martha Coakley upset, people simply need to vote for the person they actually BELIEVE is going to bring about the political changes they believe in, rather than just mindlessly voting a party line.
*************************************************

Well we all know the Dems are going to promise you everything and give you nothing SO wouldn't you be better off at least working with the Republicans who at least tell you how they feel about the matter and stick with it???

I would much rather deal with someone that didn't agree with all of my thinking but didn't continually lie to my face to get in my ass. And that is what the Dems have done better than anyone else.

Remember the definition of STUPID is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. I would much rather be IGNORANT which is simply not having been educated one a subject.

Now the "welfare class" know that they need the Liberal Dems for subsistance like a leach needs a warm body for blood. But the people in the "working class" that go along with the Liberal Dems are either ignorant or stupid. The members of the "upper class" that are Liberal Dems are simply there to make more money, Ever see a "upper class" Liberal Dem give a huge chunk percentage wise away to the "welfare Class" or charities. Hell no--they are the cheapest characters going. They want the "working class" to support the "welfare class".

Neither Democrat or Republicans are going to PULL anyone up the ladder, that's up to each individual. But if you think the Republicans aren't stepping on the hands of the common working man, you're out of your mind.

You were wrong the first time you turned on Fox News!!!! ha ha ha

Obama has introduced a plan for a non-partisan panel to investigate the truth behind these outrageous deficits, the vote comes up this tuesday and the Republicans are going to vote it down! They don't want you to know where the money went. They don't want to fix it because that means raising taxes, and this whole fucked up mess happened because Bush attacked IRAQ and didn't want to pay for it! He asked the American People to GO SHOPPING!!!

Bush's spend spend spend policies are DIRECTLY responsible for the mess we're in now. Watch the spin on tueday.

Close but no cigar. An Obama led panel of "non-partisan" experts are only going to provide "expertly" fudged numbers that will probably favor Lord Zero and whatever he wants.

And last I checked, Obama spent more than Bush. Zero had the chance to change things, but spent more money instead.

(sigh -- again) And the guy who gets laid off at 55 who is having trouble finding a job with benefits is screwed. Or how about the person in between jobs through no fault of their own who needs major medical assistance. Hardworking people who contribute to society should not be penalized with their life hanging in the balance by a health system tied to the "strength" of a company. Go tell the child of a laid off Chrysler employee why their father can't get a proper assessment of his heart condition. A downturn in the economy shouldn't be a death sentence. Extreme statement yes -- but for some, sadly true.

LOCAL:

To Conse 'Pubs those people either don't exist, are at fault, or are a handful of people out of millions. They feel neighbors, relatives, friends or charities should foot the bill, and not the ONLY people who work and pay taxes: THEM. Of course, I wouldn't count on them if I needed help, because they'd plead poverty to go with a lecture.


TAL

As the French Princess Marie Antoinette supposedly said when told the peasants were starving "let them eat cake"

""THE ARISTOCRATS"" have their eyes wide open, it's the people that are blind. THE ARISTOCRATS are bypassing unpredictable politics and media and flexing their muscles in the Supreme Court. No one is above the Law. Except THE ARISTOCRATS.

He's 55 and he hasn't built up any savings? Seriously?? That's what my dad had to use when he was laid off at 55. And no, he's not rich. It took him about a year but he got back into work. He's 67 now and is now making good money.

You show up in an ER, they have to treat you. The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor (EMTALA) Act mandates that everybody must be seen without regard for ability to pay.

I don't know. Cobra is supposed to maintain whatever benefits you had on the job.

Here's an idea. Why doesn't BO work on what Americans REALLY want him to work on? Jobs. BO said his stimulus plan would stop unemployment at 8% last February. So much for that. He should stop screwing this economy by putting us into huge debt and work on making our economy strong again so people aren't out of a job needing health benefits!

After reading your post I think it's pretty clear that it's in democrats best interest to keep the public dependent on government. That way all their big government plans are justified. And it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Grow government, and screw the public so the public becomes dependent on big government.

Conservatives are for small government and allowing people to control their own lives.

The operative word here being "supposedly." According to the following sources Marie Antoinette never did say this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake

If you don't like wikipedia then how about the following two sources

http://ask.yahoo.com/20021122.html

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/l...-eat-cake.html

Or should anyone so desire just do an internet search on the phrase "let them eat cake."

IT'S HIS OWN FAULT.

COBRA IS EXPENSIVE EVEN IF YOU HAVE A JOB.

I think we're getting to the mystery of why Tracy is such a rabid Republican. Your Dad's a lifelong member of the GOP, right? And you love your Dad unconditionally, Right?

Yes, that's why I put "supposedly" nobody really knows who first said it.

Do all rabid republicans such as myself struggle for weeks to decide if they're going to vote for Bush Sr or Clinton? Do they defend some of Clinton's policies against republicans? I even had to think about Gore vs Bush Jr, though now that I know Gore better... whew. Dodged that bullet. How many rabid republicans do you know that are atheists, or who are fine with gays and obviously fine with transladyboys? How many republicans criticize Bush Jr as anti-science? Too religious? For his stem-cell policy? For saying the constitution is just a piece of paper?

There are many subjects we have not talked about other than the narrow focus of Obama's economics and terrorism. So really Dr. Jim, I think that's all you know about me and I doubt you know anything about my dad.

Hmm, sounds like I hit a nerve!

Or you were mistaken, one of the two.

Reality?
 

Everybody has their own reality. Conservatives have their reality. Liberals have their reality. As humans we naturally gravitate to groups and news that matches our reality. For example, almost 50% of the people in the country watch Fox news and believe it is reliable and honest. Fox News fits their perception of reality therefore it is reliable and honest. The facts are otherwise, Fox News obviously caters to the conservatives in the country. They say what conservatives want to here. The same is true of liberal media. I listen to PBS's Bill Moyer's. I believe what he says and think he is a really good guy, that's my reality. Perhaps we are genetically endowed to "fit" into certain political/ideological categories. Tracy and I are poles apart politically but we both love this country. That's the way its always been since the first George.;)

Yes. Both parties and sides obviously cater their "respective" groups. The problem is when people focus on the whole "this vs. that" instead of what each side is proposing. If people took the time to look at a problem objectively and not what "feels good" and actually look at what both parties propose (expanse of government powers, diminishing individual liberties) they would be actually disgusted with what is going on.



"All those who offer an opinion on any doubtful point should first clear their minds of every sentiment of dislike, friendship, anger or pity."-Sallust

"What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from saying that they don't like something to saying that the government should forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very long."-Thomas Sowell

“One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them”-Thomas Sowell

“If you have been voting for politicians who promise to give you goodies at someone else's expense, then you have no right to complain when they take your money and give it to someone else, including themselves”-Thomas Sowell

"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws"-Tacitus

RANDY:

My gripe isn't with perception based on ideology; it's that there are 2 types of debate: honest and political. Political debate is what allows Conse 'Pubs to say: It's only my opinion that Obama is an American, and others don't feel that way.

Then there is the wordplay trickery. Chicago pols are crooks and Obama is from Chicago, which proves Obama is a crook. Bill Ayers was a terrorist and Obama met Ayers, which prove Obama is a terrorist. Guilt by association, guilt by geography. Of course, it is worded to look like something else.

TAL

Truth is free, power costs money. If the house and senate had to vote on what color purple is, the results would be divided along party lines. Reddish blue or bluish red.
If a reliable voice-stress lie-detector were ever invented, you'd find out all our leaders are lying, and all the people know nothing. How could they?

The old tried and true
 

JIM:

The first liar was the first pharaoh.


TAL

Brown's win forced a complete rewrite of TMF's speech. Instead of health care he's forced to listen to what the people want - Jobs. So he'll talk about jobs tonight, not because he wants to. Because he has to. And because he failed at his promise of creating jobs by last February so the issue is still here.

Create jobs a year ago? The economy was spiraling into a black hole! Surely, he should have focused as much on saving jobs as he focused on saving the banks. But even for God things take time and Obama is not God, right?
And politicians regardless of political persuasion never get things done properly, anyway.
They are too busy counting the money from lobbyists. Six hundred million form the drug/health industry for example.
Yes, he lost touch with his base after getting elected. He is no FDR that's for sure.:frown:

Let Me Get This Straight!!
 

TRACY:

Bush 43 wasn't a true Conse 'Pub: end of story?

Obama had how long to fix everything to your satisfaction?

Replace him now with a true Conse 'Pub?

How long does 45 get to fix things?

TAL

FDR was a shithead who didn't care for the "working man", the person he was supposedly trying to help. I'd say they're in the same boat.

WHOOOOAH, there, pardner!!!

FDR took the United States from the Depression to SUPERPOWER status!
Your Republican buddies took us from SUPERPOWER status to the Depression!!! Read a book, Man!!!

The New American History
 

JIM:

According to Conse 'Pubs, this is the Obama Depression, and did not involve BUSH.

The Great Depression lasted so long because of FDR, according to Conse 'Pubs.

FDR & Obama failed, while Hoover and Bush were just average residents in The WH.

TAL

Did not involve Bush?:innocent:

OK Tal, you are putting us on, Right?;)

Yeah, last year TMF said unemployment would go no higher than 8.5% because of his stimulus package. It busted that in february.

Well he'll burden generations to come as FDR did at least.

Don't blame me. I'm using the timetable Obama promised.

Hey, don't knock Jimmy, my savings were paying 10% in those days.:yes:

And I'll bet your mortgage rates were close to 20%.

TRACY:

Can you be a bit more specific?

What was he suppose to do by when?

Sorry, Conse 'Pubs tend to make promises for opponents, yell that said promises were broken, and your evasiveness doesn't inspire confidence.

TAL

My mortgage, at that time, was from the 1960s at 5%, fortunately.
You recall, that when Reagan came in the rates came down and so did the Saving and Loan industry. Some of the Bush boys were involved in that fiasco.

And you obviously need to research Executive Order 9066.

Sorry, I meant he said he would stop unemployment from rising above 8.5%. That's what he said his stimulus package would do. And by February of 09 it wizzed past that number.

The first stimulus was completely ineffective in creating jobs. So why should we allow the government to print another several hundred billion$ or even a trillion$ for another BS jobs bill?

TRACY:

So, counting 1/20 for 13 days in January to go with 28 days in February, you are ready to stamp failure on his presidency after 41 days?

TAL

I don't need to research nothin'!! We WON WWII. We LOST IRAQ II. I don't need a cherry picker to figure that out. Who's your lawyer? Alito?

Jimbo, I believe that it is you who needs to read a book.

I'm not contesting about which wars we won. If you had actually bothered to look up 9066, you would have found out that your homeboy FDR had imprisoned hundreds of thousands of Japanese citizens, held them in internment camps, suspended their rights and had them arrested without grounds for due cause and seized their property and assets simply because they were Japanese. That today is known as "racial profiling"...

As I said before, FDR was a shithead and he shit on the Constitution the entire time he was in office.

Click on the links if you don't believe me.

http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=74

http://www.pbs.org/childofcamp/history/eo9066.html

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5154

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066


What do you think of him now?

Let Me Get This Straight!!
 

ANGRY:

You're judging FDR's 4 terms based on one HUGH mistake in the 40's, and judging it by standards 60-70 years later, like the founders having slaves and growing pot. Or do they get a pass?

You condemn FDR for ONE thing for 12 years? Hoover did nothing for The Great Depression, and Bush 43 has 116 questionable acts in 8 years. What about them?

Are you saying Obama & FDR are crap, while you say little or nothing on Hoover & Bush 43? Or am I taking you wrong?

TAL

The principles remain the same even if we are judging it 60-70 years later.

You are taking me wrong. FDR did a hell of alot more damage than just 9066.

How about we start from the beginning, the gold confiscation.

http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-go...fiscation.html
http://www.fgmr.com/the-confiscation-threat.html

And some more:

FICA (Bankrupting us today)- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_In ... ns_Act_tax

National Labor Relations (Wagner) Act (AFL-CIO circle jerk) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Act

Fair Labor Standards Act (minimum wage) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Labor_Standards_Act

Agricultural Adjustment Administration (Farmaid) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Labor_Standards_Act

United States Housing Authority (Affordable Housing!) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... _Authority

Note that all of the above listed policies have come and bitten us in the ass at some point since their inception.

Social Security has trillions of dollars of unfunded liabilities on its balance sheet.

The Wagner Act is the basis for the Democrats' new push for Card Check.

The federal minimum wage has succeeded in accomplishing nothing and keeping the youngest American workers out of the work force and underemployed.

Farmaid has succeeded in not only redistributing massive amounts of wealth, but also by lowering the productivity of farmers (which brings about other unforeseen losses to our economy), while also subsidizing American farmers to put farmers in third world countries at an economic disadvantage, thus putting them out of business. We used to import large quantities of crops from farmers in north and central Africa, but now that we have successfully put them out of business through our farm subsidies, we now feel the need to send billions dollars more to them every year to help them in their economic suffering (induced by us). So let's keep a tally of the financial and economic costs of Farmaid: (1) Billions of tax dollars removed from the private sector (2) to pay farmers (3) to be unproductive. (4) Putting third world farmers out of business and then feeling sorry for them, so we (5) send them billions more dollars in foreign aid to help ease the problem that we created. There's five prices we pay just so we can say we "buy American."

And here we are getting pissed at China for subsidizing their tire manufacturers and undercutting US companies... Well fuck us, we're no better! We do it every day!

And, of course, the venerable AFFORDABLE HOUSING INITIATIVE. I'm not going to delve too deeply into this one... but as we all know it's the root cause of the current recession. So, enough about that.

Obama is trying to tread down the same disasterous path of FDR.

ANGRY:

Are you a Libertarian who wants to go back before and get rid of social security, Medicare, Welfare, and all other government programs with no restrictions on a free-market system? No wonder you're angry.

Only Obama & FDR are the criminals? Hoover and Bush must have done a lot of good things you'd like to spout off about?


TAL

I am not saying that Bush and Hoover are exempt from anything either. However, Bush did not spend roughly 2trillion dollars his first year in office and drive this country as deeply into debt as Obama did. I don't like alot of Bush's policies and I think he dropped the ball on quite a many things. But he did not fuck us over as badly as Obama did with his "stimulus".

Hoover was another shithead that started the same type of crap that FDR took further. Wilson, LBJ, Nixon, Carter and the Bush's are also on my presidential shitlist.

ANGRY:

If your argument is that FDR is a socialist, save the links; I won't go there.

TAL

Government programs are why we are in the shit we are in.

That's the kicker. Politically, how do you end Social Security without it simply collapsing under its own weight? We can't just end it. Ignorant people will claim that "their money" is in the fund and they deserve to have it back... little do they realize "their money" was spent as soon as it was taken from their pay check. And politicians won't have the heart to tell them that, particularly the leftists that are in power at the time. Admitting this would force them to realize their ideology is a failure... and they are intellectually incapable of doing that. Either way, whether it is ended politically, or collapses financially, the result will be detrimental to whichever retired generation it disappears under. There's just no way to fix it without committing political suicide, so they aren't going to touch it.

Reserving judgment on the potential this current administration has, FDR was by and large the worst president in US history, followed very closely by Wilson and H Hoover. Bad presidents would follow, but it's FDR's policies that will be our financial ruin.



“No matter how disastrously some policy has turned out, anyone who criticizes it can expect to hear: "But what would you replace it with?" When you put out a fire, what do you replace it with”-Thomas Sowell

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that. Besides, the links are from everyones favorite site for info: wikipedia.

The clarity! It burns huh?

ANGRY:

I was asking a question in order for both of us to save time on a fruitless argument. Why would the clarity burn?

TAL

Yes, see what I wrote in the Obama thread. By the end of February, BO overspent what it would have taken Bush 20 years to overspend. I know it's hard to grasp how monumentally he screwed us, but it's true.

TRACY:

41 days? You were so positive?



So, you don't believe Cheney when he said they had to do the bailout to avoid a Great Depression?


TAL

You really think THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT is going to fail? Oh, Hell No! He's not doing what's right, he's doing what's necessary. Bush handed Obama an empty wallet and a trillion IOUs. What do you think he's going to do, INVENT some money?

What does him being black have to do with any of it?

he he, nothing and everything.

FAIL ?? He is failing now.

INVENT MONEY ?? If that is the same as printing money--that he's doing.

FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT ??? He can't even get that right--he only part BUT he has set back real blacks tyerribly by his on going failures.