Baseball
 

The wonderful Hockey thread has had a lot of baseball discussion of late. I suspect there are some members who want to find the excellent updates about matches without having to scroll through me, transjen, and shadows talking about the Red Sox and the Phillies. So, I'm starting this thread for baseball discussion.

I am a baseball fanatic. What I love about baseball the most is what those who "hate" baseball hate the most: its slowness. There's a reason baseball is called "America's pastime." It's not just because of how widely it was played in the 19th century, when it earned that name. It's also because you can pass a lot of time. Unlike clock sports, baseball unfolds at whatever pace a given game has. In between the action of a pitcher throwing the next pitch, for example, a real lover of baseball has the opportunity to speculate/imagine a nearly unlimited number of possibilities. What kind of pitch will he throw? is the batter swinging or taking? Is there a steal on? Should the batter bunt? Should he go for the fences? Is an opposite-field hit in order? Why is the left fielder shading to the right? Should the second baseman or shortstop take a throw to second? Etc. Etc. Etc.

My team is the Red Sox. I've been a rabid Sox fan all of my life. I go to as many games as possible at Fenway, and I rarely miss a game on the radio or TV if I'm not at the ballpark. I travel to other cities to see Sox games, and last season went to Sox games in Baltimore, New York, Cleveland, Toronto, Kansas City, and Oakland.

Let's have a fun and spirited discussion, just like we've been having about hockey.

Go Red Sox!!

UPDATE
A.Dawson made it in to the Baseball Hall of Fame today but poor Bert came ever so close missing the needed 75% by uneder 1%
And still no love for Ron Santo as the vet comittie put in Cards manger and an umpire
And just my opion but
PUT PETE ROSE IN THE HALL !!!!
Jerseygirl Jen

Blyleven belongs, and so does Robbie Alomar, who missed today, too. And yes, Jen, you are absolutely right: put Pete Rose in the Hall!!!!

I believe this was Robbie's first ballot and it appears there is some kind snubbury towards first ballot trys so perhaps next year, Barry Larkin was snubbed also
update number 2
Randy Johnson just retired, The last 300 game winner for a long long time
:yes:Jerseygirl Jen

Post news from your favorite team
 

Here's the latest from Red Sox Nation:

Sox picked up Adrian Beltre as the new starting 3rd baseman, which means Mike Lowell will be traded or platooned, Kevin Youkilis will stay at his Gold Glove position across the diamond, and Casey Kotchman will not become the starting 1st baseman.

With Jason Bay gone to the Mets, the Sox announced that Jacoby Ellsbury (or "Wonderboy," as I call him) will move to left field and newly acquired Mike Cameron will play center. Ellsbury was reportedly disappointed, but manager Terry Francona makes an excellent point: "The way we're constituted, with [Cameron's] long strides and Jacoby's first-step quickness, it seems that we're set up better that way." Left field is a tough position in Fenway, because you have to learn to read the wall.

I'd like to have a "Big Unit" pitching to me ;)
but not (ugly) Randy Johnson.

The Mariners are going to the playoffs this year! Seriously, I see nobody in the west challenging our team. We aren't even finished building the team yet either.


Randy Johnson was such a great pitcher. Him and Griffey will always be among my favorite players. Sad to see a great career come to an end.

Maybe Tim Wakefield could be a 300-game winner. He's only got 111 to go, and if his back holds up he could throw the knuckleball for another 10 years!

Beltre is ace defensively. He's had a real shitty time with injuries though and his offense never really picked up in Seattle. I read that he hated Safeco though which couldve been a reason for the lack of power.

Beltre
 

Dave Roberts of stolen-base-against-the-Yankees-that-kept-the-Red-Sox-2004-season-alive fame said of Beltre to the Boston Globe yesterday: "Probably the best defensive player I ever played with. Not just third base, best defensive player, period."

A CORRECTION: I mentioned Casey Kotchman in my earlier Red Sox update. I forgot that he is being dealt to the Mariners (which would not have happened if Beltre had not been signed).

You guys are getting Bill Hall plus the cash that we got from the Brewers and a minor leaguer. I like the trade for the Mariners as its a nice stop gap solution that could turn into something more. I'm guessing you guys are just trying to get rid of Kotchman and not really expecting much in return.

I think I would put it differently: the Red Sox are trying to give Kotchman a chance to be closer to an everyday player (which could happen, eventually, with the Mariners but not in Boston). He was a loyal soldier and filled in nicely when Youk went down in '09. Plus, dealing Casey results in cash for the Beltre deal and keeps the Red Sox close to the luxury-tax threshold.

I used to really like baseball. It was an interesting game, but now I rarely watch it because it does take so long to play. The length of time between pitches is interminable and it seems timeouts are too many and too frequent. At one time baseball was an exciting game to listen to on the radio, but now it's one long snorefest.

I realize that it's all about money because the longer it takes to play a game the more revenue is generated from sponsors to the tv stations, but it has killed my love of professional baseball.

I think Roy Halladay has a chance to become a 300 game winner, I really do. especially since he is on a really good team(*sigh* I'm gonna miss Doc on the Jays:() right now!

Wakefield(as smc mentioned) may get there, but I honestly don't see it happening. He has had a lot of injuries the past couple of seasons and I just don't see him keeping it up. Although he does have the advantage of being a knuckleball pitcher, which helps with longevity.

Jennifer, do you remember when Randy Johnson hit the bird with a pitch as he was throwing to home plate? The animal lovers wanted him to be charged, but how the hell was it his fault? The bird just happened to fly across as the ball was in motion! Sometimes I think they need to give their heads a shake.:no:

Surely you must have realized I meant that in jest! :rolleyes:

Yep.;)

I just figured he was the closest Red Sox to the plateau, so what the heck!:lol:

The problem are players like A-Roid, Garcioparra, and Jeter(just to name a few) that take forever getting ready between pitches. Adjusting batting gloves(which Garcioparra was notorious for), kicking cleats, taking a deep breath, farting, scratching buttocks, adjusting cup, picking nose, ordering chinese food, belching, etc., etc..:eek:

Agree in part
 

Ila, you make excellent points. While my initial post extolled the virtues of baseball's slowness, I don't want to be misconstrued: it has a natural slow pace that is fine, but the addition of more slowness through things like Fox deciding when the next half-inning can start because the commercials aren't over yet makes me want to scream! I would like to see the rules Major League Baseball has made about time between pitches actually enforced.

But even with the enhanced slowness, I still love the game.

True but that's all part of the game, What would you suggest a delay of game penalty like in football[NFL football]
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

As long as he wins 300 for the Phillies :yes:

I was never a Randy Johnson fan but you have to give him credit for his great career so i'll tip my cap to him and say he's proably the last 300 game winner as the teams now depend on the bullpen more and more and the 5 and 6 man rotation

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

I bet some catchers would like a penalty for farting while at the plate. One of the girls I used to coach in softball once told me that there was a girl on another team who farted every time she took a swing!

:lol: :lol: Guess she was a crappy player
:lol:Jerseygirl Jen

No, but they should be fined. Some of those delays are beyond ridiculous.

Maybe she was hoping for a passed ball due to passing wind.;):lol:

I really don't mind the delays. They can be annoying, but every player has his own routine and you could really mess up a player by screwing with his routine. if I don't do certain things while watching a game and the Mariners lose, I blame myself. I could only imagine how a player would feel if his routine was fined.

Mariners
 

I must say, my favorite thing about watching a Mariners game is hearing the trains in the background. It always gives me a warm feeling, as if baseball were being played in "olden" times.

Baseball-slowness-Cricket
 

smc, you started a baseball thread and in little over 4 hours it's already up to 26 posts.

As a fan of another game of slowness, cricket, it's clear I was always going to be an instant convert to baseball. I just had to learn the rules and jargon of the game. And then try to pick up the various strategies and oddities... why/when attempt to steal, why would a batter intentionally get out (the sac fly), that a pitcher can only enter the game for one batter and possibly only one pitch, when to bunt, etc.

But if you think baseball has a nice slow pace, try Test Match Cricket (the five day version of the game). You play roughly 6 hours per day, and after five days you can still have a drawn match. Sometimes, for one team, holding on for the draw actually feels like a win.

England clung on for the draw in the 1st Test Match against South Africa just before Xmas, and today they are aiming to do it again in the 3rd Test. Fortunately we thrashed the South Africans in the 2nd Test.

In recent years to speed cricket up a bit, a new version of the game was invented, called Twenty20, when batting each team faces a maximum of 120 deliveries. The game should only last approx 3 to 3.5 hours, suitable for fans to watch on a summer evening after work.


Note: Less than 100 days until the start of the 2010 regular season.:)

Hey, dauls, thanks for your post. I've actually played cricket. I went to college at a very, very small liberal arts school that happens to be just across the street from the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. A high school acquaintance was at the Academy concurrently, so we kept in touch. There was a group of "exchange students" there who were junior officers in the Royal Navy, and they were looking to organize some cricket matches. They were having a very hard time getting U.S. Navy guys interested, so my friend came by and asked me -- he knew I am a big fan of baseball -- whether I wanted to learn and play. I said yes, enthusiastically, and helped find others until we were able to organize a first match over a weekend about a month later. We played Test and determined that we'd start on Saturday, play on Sunday as well, and at the end we'd decide whether to continue if the match "technically" wasn't yet over.

It was a great time. And we did it a few more times over the year.

An important point about "slowness": a large part of cricket's slowness is actually "duration." Breaks for lunch, tea, drinks ... those all make the game take longer. No one was slowing the match while waiting for some TV ad to be completed.

Funny to hear you've played cricket, that's not something I hear too many Americans saying they've done.

TV imposing on the game is one thing that appears to be different in England compared with North America. Over here TV doesn't dictate the play of the game and in cricket the TV company has to sneak advert breaks in at the change of ends between the overs bowled or during mid-session drinks breaks.

In North America play seems to stop when TV needs it to and won't restart until the ad break has finished.

Quite often a hurried return to the cricket happens just after the ball has been bowled, but then there is plenty of time before the next ball to show a replay of the delivery you just missed.


The 3rd Test Match has just finished and England have clung on for the draw again. We were down to our last wicket for the final 17 balls.

This draw happened in almost an identical manner to the 1st Test where England's last wicket survived for the final 19 balls.

The South Africans must be gutted that they have drawn two matches that they were only one wicket (out) away from winning the game.

So that leaves England 1-0 up in the Series with only one Test Match to go. So England can't lose the Series now, but a Series win away in South Africa will be a fantastic achievement for England.

Special Committee for On-Field Matters
 

Major League Baseball has announced that Commissioner Bud Selig is going to in a week or so with the Special Committee for On-Field Matters, which has some veteran managers (Tony La Russa, Jim Leyland, Mike Scioscia, and Joe Torre), GMs, club owners, and team presidents. Among the topics are schedules, playoff formats, umpiring, game pace, and instant replay.

I'm hoping they address -- and fix -- the ridiculous postseason schedule, with all the wasted open dates.

At the mercy of TV schedules
 

Those wasted open dates are surely down to the TV schedules. So I doubt your wish will come true.

The last three years has seen Game 1 of the World Series moved back to Wednesdays to boost sagging ratings. This avoids having a game on poorly watched Friday nights, and means play on both days of the weekend. I suppose the only TV schedule nightmare for comes on Monday when a Game 5 goes head-to-head with Monday Night Football.

In the earlier postseason rounds the teams wanted the extra days off for travel. But surely playing baseball in November can't be right.

I'm a bit more optimistic
 

You are wise to doubt that the postseason schedules will be fixed, but I think the reason for some optimism is that players and managers -- without exception -- have complained. Usually, there are a few players and managers who "make a stink" about something, and everyone else has "no comment." But not on this issue. So maybe change will come, TV sponsors be damned!

I rarely follow cricket, but am I right to think that it was only a few years ago that India was a dominant force in international cricket play?

Your Team
 

JEN:

What team do you follow? Phillies, Yankees, Mets, other or none?


TAL

PHILLIES!!!!!
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Alright!
 

JEN:

I'm from Philly and I cover The Phillies on a fairly new national blog @ http://isportsweb.com/ under MLB, baseball, NL East & Phillies. That's why I asked. I try to write from the perspective of a baseball man (not me), and what management is thinking in the decision-making process.

TAL

I hope that will be the case. Playing baseball into November(the last game the previous season was on November 4th to be exact) is ridiculous.:rolleyes:

Currently India are the #1 team in Test Cricket, they made it to #1 for the first time in December 2009. Before that South Africa were briefly #1 from Aug '09 to Dec '09.

This ranking system only started in June 2003 and for the first 6 years 2 months Australia were #1.

England are only #5, and it will take a couple of years before they have a chance of challenging for the #1 spot. However their Ashes Series win last summer and current 1-0 series lead after the 3rd of a 4 Test Match Series in South Africa will help improve England's ranking.

As for One Day International Cricket I those damn Aussies are still #1 in the World. India are #2 and again England are #5.

:eek:One cricket fact to surprise you is that before England played Australia in the first official Test Match in 1877, the first international cricket match took place 25th-27th Sept. 1844 in Bloomingdale Park, Manhattan, New York between the USA and Canada.

The Canadians won the game. 10,000+ people watched it and an estimated $100,000 was bet on the match. Canada also won both a home and an away game against the USA in 1845.

Before the American Civil War cricket was by far the biggest sport in the USA. Cricket effectively became a victim of that war.
Without the Civil War, would baseball be where it is today?

Very interesting,,,, but doubtful.
 

I really have no clue if cricket was ever played much in the US,, but I seriously hope it wasn't, lol. Some sports should be all nationalistic.. Cricket sure fits for Brits,,,, and Baseball is as Yankee as it gets.... I just can't see any stiff upper lip Brit chewing and spittin' tobaceee....and what a mess it'd make on those fine white uniforms.....

I see that the Texas Rangers have hired former Red Sox catcher Bill Hasselman to be a manager in the minor leagues. It cannot be overstated: catchers make excellent managers!

Johnny Bench and a guy dressed like a chicken?
 

Perhaps this is a little off topic, but i rember a tv show that Stared Johnny Beach and a bunch of young little league players and a guy dressed like a chicken the show aired back in the early 80s and i rember watching it when i was 5 or 6 but i can't rember what it was called anyone else rember this show and no it was not THIS WEEK IN BASEBALL that was a whole differnt show
:confused: Jerseygirl Jen

Hey, Jen -- It was "The Baseball Bunch" and it was the San Diego Chicken along with Johnny Bench. Here's a link to the Wikipedia page to help you take a more focused trip down memory lane:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baseball_Bunch

Thanks, That's the show wonder if youtube has any clips or better yet a full episode, I had no idea the chicken suit guy was the San Diego chicken i just rembered the annoying chicken suit guy
:hug: Jerseygirl Jen

What a world we live in!
 

Annoying, yes! But did you know that The Sporting News named the San Diego Chicken as one of the 100 most powerful "people" in sports for the 20th century?!

Jen, put "San Diego Chicken" in a YouTube search and your wish will be fulfilled, many times over.

Be careful what you wish for, Jen.;):lol:

"Tell-Us-Something-We-Didn't-Already Know" Department
 

The big news in the baseball world is Mark McGwire's admission that he used steroids, including in 1998 when he broke the MLB single-season home run record.

Anyone with a functioning brain and functioning eyes and even the most cursory knowledge of what steroids can do to a man's physiology already knew that McGwire was a user.

McGwire is doing an interview tonight with Bob Costas to discuss his admission. It will be broadcast on MLB Network at 7 p.m. ET and simulcast at MLB.com.

I hear Barry Bonds is planning to have his head shrunk and then do a similar interview in which he will obfuscate about every steroids-related question. (Okay, I made that last part up.)

It is good that he finally admitted what we all knew. Anyone that thought he was clean should take their head out of the sand and look around. It was not called the "Steroid Era" for nothing. We would be knocked off our feet if we ever found out the real amount of users during that "era".:eek:

Barry Bonds? He is a jackass, as is Clemens. They are not fooling anyone! The reason I dislike the two of them, and don't mind McGuire is the fact that Big Mac at least treated the fans like people and not minor annoyances(when they played).

I agree with the big-head syndrome of Bonds. Looking at video/pictures of him from his Pittsburgh days to the same from his San Francisco days is like looking at night and day! Totally different! His head got a least 3x bigger! He used to be a contact hitter who would steal a lot of bases and hit a few home runs. Then he magically became a power hitter that could hit 77 home runs? Sorry, but that record is one that actually deserves an asterisk beside it.:no:

I'm watching the Mark McGwire interview right now on MLB Network and I must admit that as much as I despise steroid use and how it has affected baseball, I feel a bit of sympathy for him. Never for Bonds or Clemens!

I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who feels that way. Thanks!:)

He's been wanting to come clean since 2005.
 

I left this 'off-topic' post on the hockey thread about a month ago...
Unfortunately I never kept that newspaper clipping.:frown:
The baseball show on British TV only picked on Bonds and a few others, but not McGwire.
And I never read anything else about McGwire and steroids, even though he looked like 'Arnie's big brother' at the end of his career.

So I begun to think that maybe that newspaper article was a figment of my imagination. Thanks for posting this, at least I now know I'm not totally mad.

OK McGwire may have presented himself as a nicer person than Bonds, but the bottom line is he was a drugs cheat. He was a role model to thousands of kids, but he was another one of the potential catalysts for them to be 'juiced' by unscrupulous coaches. Coaches who saw great potential in a youngster, but knew steroids could be used to make the difference and help the youngster stand out from the others.

Drugs need to be kept out of sport for the sake of the under 18s. Once you are an adult you can do what you want to yourself, and if you get caught, accept your punishment and shut the f:censored:ck up.

As you've probably guessed by now, I have no sympathy for McGwire. I put him in the same group as Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod, Clemens, Jos? Canseco, etc. You're either clean or a cheat.

It'd be nice if we could go back to the good old days, with Roger Maris' 61 and Hank Aaron's 755 as the home run records. Shame we can't.

It's also a shame that Ken Griffey Jr. has missed so much of is career through injury, and he won't be able to stop cheating A-Rod from setting the career home run record. Hopefully Albert Pujols can carry on for long enough to catch A-Rod and pass him.

It is nice to read an opposing point of view(regarding McGuire, as I agree that drugs in sports are crap). I don't know how I missed your original post, so I'm glad that you posted it again.

Speaking of Sosa, besides the stigma of being a steroid user, he is now being labelled as a "Michael Jackson Wannabe" as he had a picture taken of him recently where he looked very pale(I think I saw it at espn.com). Some people were accusing him of tying to get rid of his Latino traits and trying to become caucasian. I am not sure how true this story is since all I saw was that one article about it. Did you hear about this at all, dauls?:eek:

No. That Sammy Sosa story is a new one to me. Apart from the steroid links I haven't heard a thing about him since he last played in 2007.

:frown: Sosa also briefly played alongside another member of the 500 HR Club who posted a positive test for steroids: Rafael Palmeiro.

I think that whole Texas Rangers team back then was pretty bad with regards to steroids. Wasn't A-Roid on that team too?;)

I think if you google 'sammy sosa white' and then click on 'Images' you will see the pictures I was talking about.

Of course, one of the places it is on is tmz.com, and we all know that is the place to get the truth.;):lol:

Clarification
 

After reading dauls' post, I feel I must clarify my earlier post about watching the McGwire interview. I wrote my initial impressions.

I want to make a few points.

1. Performance-enhancing drugs have no place whatsoever in sport. Their use is cheating, and -- as dauls points out -- dangerous for kids.

2. Right or wrong, none of these drugs were specifically banned in baseball at the time the so-called "steroid era" began.

3. I believe Mark McGwire and people like Andy Pettite when they say that they took these drugs to help recover from injuries. This was not the case for people like Bonds or Clemens or A-Rod. This does not eliminate point #1, above.

4. I think all the records set during the steroid era should at least have an asterisk (*) that indicates they are suspect.

5. Mark McGwire failed in his interview to state unequivocally that his steroids, taken for injuries, essentially increased his batting power (if not his "god-given skill" of hand-to-eye coordination or his bat speed, which is a function of swinging skill more than strength). He hinted that he would have hit just as many home runs without steroids. Whether that is or not, his failure to own up to even the possibility greatly diminishes his "confession."

There is a lot more I could write, but I will leave it at that, except to reiterate that steroids and HGH are wrong for baseball: they are dangerous, and they represent cheating. On that there can be no equivocation.

Here is another chapter to that story. Jose Canseco(who basically got the whole ball rolling with his book 'Juiced', says that McGuire and La Russa are not telling the whole truth. Here is the article from tsn.ca.

-----------------------------------------------------
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CANSECO SAYS MCGWIRE, LA RUSSA NOT TELLING THE TRUTH

A day after Mark McGwire admitted to using steroids, one former teammate believes that McGwire hasn't told the entire truth.

Former 'Bash Brother' Jose Canseco, whose 2005 book 'Juiced' opened up the culture of steriods at the time, was not to pleased with some things that McGwire said on Monday, specifically when McGwire said that he and Canseco never talked about steroids, let alone injected each other, which Canseco claimed in the book.

"I've got no problems with a few of the things he's saying, but again, it's ironic and strange that Mark McGwire denies that I injected him with steroids. He's calling me a liar again," Canseco said on ESPN 1000 radio. "I've defended Mark, I've said a lot of good things about him, but I can't believe he just called me a liar.

"There is something very strange going on here, and I'm wondering what it is. I even polygraphed that subject matter, that I injected him, and passed it completely. So I want to challenge him on national TV to a polygraph examination. I want to see him call me a liar under a polygraph examination."

Canseco also took a shot at current St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, who managed McGwire in St. Louis and both McGwire and Canseco in Oakland, for his public statement that he didn't know that McGwire had used steroids until McGwire called him early on Monday.

"That's a blatant lie," Canseco said. "Tony La Russa was quoted as saying that I was using steroids back then, and I was talking about it in the clubhouse, openly. That's a blatant lie.

"There are some things here that are so ridiculous, and so disrespectful for the public and the media to believe. I just can't believe it. I'm in total shock. These guys remind me of politicians that go up and just lie to the public and expect to get elected."

Canseco, who told ESPN that he is still a big fan of McGwire, is tired of defending what he wrote in 'Juiced.'

"I'm tired of justifying what I've said," Canseco said. "I've polygraphed, I've proven that I'm 100 percent accurate. I never exaggerated. I told it the way it actually happened. I'm the only one who has told it the way it actually happened. Major League Baseball is still trying to defend itself. It's strange. All I have is the truth, and I've proven that."

More thoughts on Mark McGwire
 

I've been giving a lot more thought today to Mark McGwire's interview with Bob Costas. It may still be reasonable to believe that McGwire began taking steroids because of injuries, his refusal to acknowledge even the possibility that the drugs may have contributed positively to his performance numbers renders his apology meaningless. So now we have an admission of guilt, but not the apology that would come with a full confession of the facts.

I am not alone in this assessment. I found this evening that most of the commentators were saying virtually the same thing.

Here's some of what McGwire said when asked by Costas whether the drugs enhanced his performance. Insisting they did not, he said: ""I just believed in my ability, and my hand to eye coordination, and the strength of my mind. I developed them on their own"

Asked whether he would have had the same level of home run productivity if he "had never touched anything more than a protein shake," McGwire said yes, insisting he could have surpassed Babe Ruth's productivity without the drugs.

Keith Olbermann made a very good point: while some speculate whether he might have hit, say, 40 without the steroids rather than 70 in a season, the truth is that if he took the drugs for the reason he claims -- for his health, so that he could be healthy enough to play baseball -- the drugs actually enabled him to hit any number over zero.

Clearly, McGwire had no choice but to "come clean" (his words) because of his recent hiring by the St. Louis Cardinals as hitting coach.

Today comes the revelation that McGwire's "crisis manager" consultant for yesterday's events is Ari Fleischer, George W. Bush's first press secretary of his presidency. As Keith Olbermann put it tonight (I am paraphrasing), now we know that Fleischer's worse "hit and miss" wasn't "Mission Accomplished."

Nice posts smc & shadows.:respect:

I've only seen excerpts of McGwire's interview, but I didn't fall for his crocodile tears. What does he want? A f:censored:cking Oscar. Maybe he taught Paltrow how to weep to order when she collected her 'Best Actress' award.

The "I only took small amounts to help recover from injuries and to cope with the strain of a 162 game schedule", sounds like bullsh:censored:t to me.

If anyone in baseball would have 'needed' steroids to help get through a 162 game season then that would've been the hero who managed to string together a run of 2,632 games, he played through a f:censored:ck of a lot of injuries.
But somehow he knew taking steroids was wrong, even though the Commissioner and MLB failed to implement doping tests in baseball long after other sports had done the decent thing.

Taking steroids in baseball may not have been banned in McGwire's time, but he knew it was wrong. Look at the size of him when he hit that record breaking homer, how did he manage to run the bases carrying that upper body around?

Would he have still hit 583 homers without the steroids?
We'll never know... will we?
So he can't say "Yes, I would have." Unless he can find a time machine, travel back to before his first 'juicing' and then play his career again... clean.
Where's the Doctor when you need him? Oops!:eek: That's what probably got McGwire into trouble in the first place.;)

I bet Bonds is currently enjoying all the attention being on someone else.

-----------------

When it comes to steroids, I'm surprised no athletes have been nobbled by opponents. There must be some dodgy coaches/athletes out there who've wanted/tried to spike the competition's food/drink with the hope that they'll get caught by the testers.

Thanks dauls.:)

Regarding Bonds, he will be happy all right...at least until his trial starts.;)

Just in case you were wondering, you can swear if you want to.:lol:

I think the commissioner at the time, team owners, coaches, etc. have got to take some of the blame for the rampant steroid use among the players. Had those in charge not turned a blind eye/encouraged the use/failed to implement drug testing then there would not have been a problem and the players would have had unblemished records. Maybe these players were capable of their feats without drug use, but we'll never know and baseball is the poorer for it.

The fans have lost out and the players have lost out. The only winners, it seems to me, were the team owners. I'm not shocked at this, but I am disappointed.

This whole mess started in the mid 80s and i think ESPN has a lot to do with it, Players were all asking how can i make the top of sports center? Answer smack the ball to the moon not only will that give me prime sports center coverage but my contract amount will increase and it draws more fans to pay and watch putting dollar signs in the owners eyes so they acted like I KNOW NOTHING i don't see my two bash brothers in the stale give each out a needle in the butt,
Money greed caused the whole roid mess and i believe ESPN was a factorer
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

I've never thought of the ESPN connection, but I think it has merit. You're probably onto something here, Jen.

It boggles the mind how quickly everyone has given A-Roid a pass(and that means Bud Selig as well as other MLB execs), yet they still will not allow Pete Rose into the Hall! Come on! I can see if Pete ever bet for the Reds to lose, but he always bet for them to win. I think Pete's "crime" is far less severe than the various juice-heads that will probably end up in the Hall(A-Roid? There is one undeserving assclown if I ever saw one. I can't stand that punk!

A lot of the people that post at espn.com have stated that a lot of their articles are now "sensationalized" rather than being just about the sport. There have also been rumblings of bias, such as the various NCAA football stories that deal with the one ESPN employee's son who said that his coach "mistreated" him while he had a concussion. They call it "the shed" incident, but I cannot recall any more particulars.

A-Rod gets the free pass because he's a fan favorite and he packs em in, He didn't do anything that Bonds didn't do and yet Bonds is seen as a bad guy the difference is Bonds was and is an A-HOLE and not loved by fans
And rember good old Bud was and proably still a team owner for most and even if he really no longer owns the Brewers i believe his daughter is so he won't come down on George or take away one of his top gate players as A-ROD draws fans so a blind eye is turned
If Pete was still able to pack the house you could bet your life savings he would be back in baseball but i dout i live long enought to see Pete get in the hall of fame i will bet that Jose Cansenco will get in before Pete does
:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

But A-Rod is not a fan-favourite, Jen. True, he is liked by the Yankee fans, but his actions both off AND on the field have not endeared him at all to most fans.

I am not sure if you remember this incident or not, but a few years ago he knocked the glove off the hand of the pitcher covering first base while he was running down the first base path. Even Jeter, his own teammate, looked at him with a look of utter disbelief. Needless to say, he got called out, and Jeter was forced to remain at first base(I cannot remember who got called out, but I know it basically killed the rally at the time).

Another time, he called out "Mine! Mine! I got it!" while running the basepaths against Toronto a couple of years ago. Even John McDonald was pissed at him(and Johnny Mac never got angry!) for that. He is not a team-player, and I would rather have a player like Derek Jeter any time. Jeter has respect for fans, for his teammates, and most importantly for the game itself.

The only reason A-Rod has popularity is due to the fact that Selig basically swept it all under the rug. I cannot determine who is worse for their respective sport...Bettman or Selig.

I also don't think that Jose Canseco will ever get in the Hall. He has ruffled far too many feathers to get in. He made them look bad in the eyes of the public and they will remember that.

I meant it more as a joke as i know he doesn't deserve to be in the hall of fame as the only impact on baseball he had was he started the whole roids mess, But my real point was that Pete Rose will proably never get in to the hall because of his sports beting when he was manger of the Reds breaking one of the top rules of baseball so i can see why he's banned and can never mange a team agian but he was still a great player and has the all time hits record and should be in the hall based on his career as a player as a player he never threw a game or bet on a game


:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Lol. I can be a little thick sometimes.:lol:

I'm not sure that Rose will never get into the Hall. I think that someday he will, just not in the format that they do it right now. I think a future Commisioner will actually place him in. It certainly won't be Selig, but I just have a gut feeling that it will happen. Call me a hopeless optimist, I guess. Actually, I have to be to be a Leaf's fan, right?;):lol:

It's not just baseball
 

JEN:

Baseball and sports are only an extension of a society that ups their resume with a keyboard stroke, take people-helping jobs only for the money, and the politicians are the worst of the worst.

TAL

Sorry need to call a foul here
Since we can't talk baseball in the hockey thread then we can't talk hockey in the baseball thread am i rite?
Just bustin your stones you're ok
:lol: Jerseygirl Jen

The only one
 

SHADOW MAN:

Jose Canseco turns out to be the only honest one of the bunch.


TAL

*looks to see if stones are still intact after said bustin'*:eek:

Whew! They're okay!;):)

That sure seems to be the case. I always thought that he was being truthful, but it has now come to light just how truthful he was! He knew he was going to be ostracized from the "clique" for writing his book, but he did it anyhow. Was money a motivating factor? Probably it had something to do with it, but I am glad that he brought it to light regardless of the reasons behind it. It caused the users to attempt to scurry back under their rocks, but it was too late. The rocks had already been removed.

I will also admit that I always liked Canseco. He was a hoot to watch, especially in the outfield(remember the ball that bounced off his head and became a homerun when it went over the fence?:lol:). He was even a Blue Jay for a while there.

Jose honest?
He need the money and that is the only reason he came out and spilled the beans

Oh Shadows i'm glad your stones are ok
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Doc Halladay
 

SHADOW MAN:

I write a blog about Doc's new team: The Phillies, and you might want to check out my work. I have a feeling I'll be writing a lot about him.

@ http://isportsweb.com/

I remember Jason Michaels--when he was a Phillie--trying to make a left-to-right shoestring catch on the leftfield warning track, and, during the swoop he rushed a shade too much, the ball flew out of his not-fully-secured glove and over the fence for a HR. Canseco's head shot was better thought.

TAL

JEN:

Honesty for a buck. Wow, how far have we sunk.


TAL

Thank you for your concern, Jen.:)

Thanks. I'll check it out. Jen and dauls are Phillie's fans so I imagine that they will take a boo at it as well.:)

Interesting blogs, Tal. You are quite the Phillie fan, it looks like.:respect:

Why would i boo? unless Santa Clause is in it
:lol: Jerseygirl Jen

Don't you like it when Jolly Ol' St. Nick gives you things?;):innocent:

It's an old joke about Phillies fans that we are so mean we even boo Santa Clause
:eek:Jerseygirl Jen

I never heard that one before. I heard that the Phillie fans could get quite vocal, but I never heard about them booing Santa!:eek:

Santa Claus
 

SHADOW MAN:

It's threw snowballs at Santa during an Eagles' game, but the Santa-was-drunk part gets left out. Why let facts ruin a good story.

Thnx for checking about my small contribution to the national sports blog.

TAL

Jeez, lots of baseball discussion while I was gone. I guess it was a good idea to start this thread.

Just a quick note on booing by Philadelphia fans: October 2008, Sarah Palin at the Flyers game! That was spectacular.

On Tuesday, the son of Barry Bonds -- Nikolai, age 20 -- pleaded not guilty in San Mateo County (California) Superior Court to five misdemeanor charges related to a fight with his mother.

Barry was in the courtroom.

The charges go back to December 5. Nikolai Bonds is alleged by police to have thrown a doorknob at mom (Sun Bonds, from whom Barry is divorced) and spit in her face, prevented her from leaving, destroyed property worth about $400, and threatened an officer. The charges are battery, false imprisonment, vandalism, making threats to an officer, and obstructing an officer.

Here in Red Sox Nation, our discussion about this has turned into a debate over what started the fight. Some say it was simple "'roid rage" by Nikolai, following in dad's footsteps. Others say Nikolai and mom were arguing about whether Barry's hat size is 16 or 16-1/2.

(Okay, I made that last part up.)

Nah they were fighting over who's breasts were bigger his or his dads
:lol: Jerseygirl Jen

True story my boyfriend and i had tickets for that game he brought them back in Aug before there was any talk of Sarah and family being at the game anyway we decided to sale em as the security would have been a big pain in the butt so we missed out on that dog and pony show
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Good one, Jen ... even better than mine!

But I must say, as someone who appreciates some fine titties, that the thought of Barry Bonds that way makes me want to puke. I hope I can get that image out of my head soon.

Perhaps this may help breast development is only one of many possiable side effects so he may not have any, Poor guy fyi haveing breast is great i love mine
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Two things I'm sure of:

1. If growing breasts requires something as harmful to the rest of the body as steroids, it can't possibly be worth the price.

2. At the risk of being too forward, Jen's are lovely. (Don't get me wrong; I haven't seen them, I'm just speculating.)

At some point, I'll get back to baseball!

Your old avatar
 

JEN:

Could you post your old avatar b4 your cutie got lopped off? It showed your girls if I recall.

TAL

:no: :no: That's a photo i'd like to forget as it show a part of me i hated and no long have and fyi it was not cute it was the most hideious thing i ever saw
:no: Jerseygirl Jen

Granted most guys would not be happy grewing breasts plus some of the other things that could happen down under

I didn't get my breasts from riods mine were thanks to female hormones and implants and i've been told they look great and i'm happy with em
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

I hope no one thought I was even hinting that they came from steroids -- because the thought never crossed my mind.

And now for some more baseball:

Brad Lidge had what is being called "minor arthroscopic right knee surgery" yesterday. It makes one wonder (as I am sure every Phillies fan is doing): did they take the occasion to install some kind of drama-reduction device in his body so that you Phillies fans can have less of a heart-attack reaction when he's called from the bullpen?!?! ;)

It would explain why he had a lot of trouble closing games last year as his delivery was out of step i'm only wondering why he didn't do this sooner as one of the pitching coachs should have seen his delievery was out of whack
:confused: Jerseygirl Jen

Pud Galvin and Dr. Ziegler
 

The present controversy regarding PED?s in baseball and other professional sports is actually nothing new. Nor is it likely to ?go away? anytime soon. I have been following this thread for a while and hope this post and the links I?ve provided below will help in understanding the current situation. As some of you know from my other posts and PM?s I played defensive end and linebacker in high-school and college, was a personal trainer for a while, and still workout regularly. So I have some first-hand knowledge of this issue. Over the years I witnessed a great deal of ?steroid abuse? and am frankly surprised that it has taken this long for the general public to realize how rampant PED?s are in all of sports. I remember the 1998 baseball season well and telling all my friends that McGwire and Sosa had to be doing something. Of course the reaction I usually got was ?no, man, they?re just big guys!? When I was in junior-high and beginning to lift, I remember asking my coaches about Arnold and Lou Ferrigno and was told ?they just work hard.? Only when I got into organized football later in high-school did PED?s come out into the ?open.? Based on my own experiences, I personally wouldn?t put it past anyone in professional sports (yes, all sports--even golf and basketball) to try using something to get an ?edge?--the stakes are simply too high and the amount of money to be made is unbelievable. Even my beloved Colts are suspect (disclaimer: I have two friends that play for them).

For the record, I have never taken anything that was illegal and couldn?t be purchased at a health food store or someplace like GNC. However I had ample opportunities (especially in college) and seriously considered it. I can?t help but wonder if taking these things would?ve made a difference in my own performance--my major weakness was being ?undersized? and ?slow? for an NFL pass rusher. My college coach wanted me to ?bulk up? to about 290-300 and try playing nose tackle--but looking back I?m glad I never took anything like steroids or HGH. Today, I take Creatine before and after each workout as well as ZMA and protein supplements. I?ll be 40 this year and consider myself to be in the best shape of my life. And my six-figure income as a professor over a twenty or thirty year career will be more than what many NFL players make in a short career. I hope young people think about things like this before they start taking steroids, HGH, or whatever. It?s not worth it--at least I didn?t think so.

What should baseball do about these records? I really don?t know. Really don?t. On one hand, there was clearly ?usage? and records were broken. Was it ?illegal?? ?Unethical?? This isn?t the first time in history PED?s have been used. I have included a couple of links that readers might be interested in. Pud Galvin was the first ?300? game winner. Was he ?jucing?? Read the article, it was considered OK back then. Should Pud be ?banned?? I will admit that the Summer of 1998 was very exciting and I remember watching McGwire hit number 62 with my Dad. Should the records stand? Do you think Big Mac would have hit ?70? without drugs? Would Barry Bonds have hit as many? I personally don?t think so. But I don?t have a good answer for what to do about those records. Maybe all sports records should be viewed in the ?context? of the era that they were set. At least the recent rash of players and bodybuilders ?coming clean? about using steroids brings this issue out into the open where it can be discussed. Now at least we aren?t trying to ?deny? it?s use as when I was a teenager in the 80?s (of course I knew better--so did my teammates--LOL!). Performance ?enhancement? is an area that is not going to go away--it may not be the drugs and supplements used today--but there will always be those seeking to gain an advantage.

Read about ?Pud? here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5314753

Read about ?Dr. Ziegler? here:
http://www.slate.com/id/2113752/

A lot of players play through pain or injuries. They know that if they miss time during the season, they may lose their spot due to their replacement playing well during their absence.

All we the fans can do about the records set in the riods era is just take it with a geain of salt as it wasn't just one or two players and as Roger Clemons proved pichters were also taking needles in the butt
But sadly in the end these records stand but for all time HR'S yes Bonds has the record but i admire Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth more as they did it the proper way
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

An interesting perspective
 

Dan Shaughnessy, a sports columnist for The Boston Globe, has an interesting column in today's issue on the McGwire matter. I'm not a big fan of Shaughnessy, but it's worth reading his perspective.

Here's a link:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal..._us_roid_rage/

You know something Jen? I think people will remember Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth years from now and the current players of the "Steroid Era" will long be forgotten. :)