Self Defense
 

I decided to start this thread after I read about what happened to one of our members. Hope we can share our experiences and ideas. No one should ever have to live in fear.

Being Prepared
 

No one should have to live in fear. Period. That I’m sure, we can all agree on. Since joining this forum, I have read far too many posts about acts of violence towards transgendered individuals or their admirers. While I truly believe our society has become more tolerant regarding race and gender, the harsh reality is that not everyone is so nice and accepting. This was not an easy post for me to write. But after learning about what some of you have had to deal with (most recently our member who was assaulted--by several attackers) I felt I had to.

You are a good person. You are open-minded and very tolerant of others. You probably don’t go around picking fights with others and you would like to live your own life in peace. You probably have friends who are just like you. You and your friends would never ever think of harming anyone. Some of you probably don’t even like watching violent movies. Unfortunately, as we have all-too-often experienced with hate crimes, there are those individuals who because of “racial” or “anti-gay” or “gender” prejudice want to hurt you for no other reason than who you are… In a perfect world, these scum wouldn’t even exist. But the world we live in is not perfect. You do not want to become a victim. Nor should you have to live your life in fear from anybody. Ever. From a practical perspective, what can you do about it?

For starters, I think taking a “self defense” class or studying Karate or some other martial art is a good idea. Find a class or instructor nearby--and make sure you are comfortable with the “style” and method of teaching. You don’t have to become a “Black Belt” either--knowing a few simple but effective techniques is fine. You should practice these basic “moves” over and over until you are sure you can use them against someone. This can even be fun to do with friends--just don’t get too carried away! Also, don’t worry that you are not Jet Li or Chuck Norris or “Trinity” in “The Matrix.” That stuff is better left in the movies anyway. Working out regularly and being in shape is good too. Attackers are less likely to choose someone who walks and acts confidently. If you are in a group, that will further lessen the chances that you will become a victim. You’re probably thinking: that’s easy for me to say since I’m a pretty big guy. But what if you are like 5’5” and 120? And alone? Despite what you see on TV and in movies--there are times when even having a Black Belt isn’t going to do much good against someone who is bigger and stronger or when you are dealing with multiple attackers (which seems to be the “pattern” of many hate crimes).

Which brings us to the most difficult and controversial question regarding self-defense. Should you buy a gun? That is not an easy question to answer. Speaking totally for myself, I am politically somewhat liberal (at least on “social justice” issues--I am a champion of individual rights and freedoms) as are probably many people on this forum. The “second amendment” in the United States gives us the “right to keep and bear arms.” Not everyone agrees with this. Almost all of my colleagues at my university are opposed to anyone owning a handgun. You may be opposed to even the idea of carrying a handgun. If so, you may want to leave it at learning Karate. Nothing wrong with that! My own upbringing included learning about firearms. My dad was a Korean War veteran and two of my uncles served in Vietnam--and were hunters. Yes, I own a handgun (a SIG P229 .40 caliber for anyone who cares or knows about this stuff) and have a permit to carry. Sometimes I do carry. Should you?

First of all you must realize that we are talking about potentially taking the life of another. Are you prepared to do that? Have you ever thought about it? Would you be able to “pull the trigger” on someone? Realistically, most of us (including me) unless we have been in military combat or law enforcement, can’t honestly answer that question until the moment. But you must at least consider the consequences. Shooting a gun isn’t as it appears on TV. Guns are loud (very loud--I was watching “Die Hard 3” the other day where Bruce Willis takes out like five guys in an elevator--his ears would be ringing for weeks), they kick, they are complex to operate (especially automatics), and require (like anything else) training and practice to master. They also, if you don’t know what you are doing, can be as dangerous to yourself as to your opponent! Finally, there are strict laws governing the ownership and carrying of handguns. Believe me, you don’t want to shoot yourself or get “busted”! Look up “Plaxico Burress” for more information on this. Check the laws where you live before you purchase a gun. If you are going to carry it--get a permit. There is also the question of what happens after you have shot someone in self defense. Be prepared to be questioned by the police, maybe even taken in for questioning--assuming your gun was “legal”--otherwise you will most likely be arrested and facing prosecution and maybe jail time. And this last part is the most difficult and perhaps the most serious issue--assuming you have had to use your gun, you have now killed or seriously wounded someone in self-defense… you have to ask yourself if that is something you will be able to live with for the rest of your life.

If you can get all of the above straight in your head… next, you need to choose a handgun that is right for you. My advice is to go to a reputable dealer--one that also has a range and offers instruction--and try several models out--don’t be shy about it! Also don’t be afraid to admit you don’t know anything or that you have never even shot a gun before. There is a first time for everything. This is also a time to check your own head out--does even holding a gun bother you? Do you hold it like you would rather not even be touching it? If so, then maybe this is not the time. If you are OK with it, then my advice for what it’s worth is: 1) Forget anything you have seen in the movies--Clint Eastwood’s .44 Magnum or Arnold’s .45 Long Slide “with laser sighting”--are not for you. 2) Calibers worth considering include: 9mm, .38 Special, or possibly even a .40 automatic. 3) A .22, .25, or .32 can kill but doesn’t have much “stopping power”--shoot someone with a .22 and they will die--after they have taken you out. 4) Make sure the gun “feels” good in your hand--remember it will kick and you want to be able to deal with that. You can always get “custom” grips to fit your hand. I recommend it. 5) Try a few different models out if you can--if you have never shot a gun before--now is the time! Make sure you have your hearing protectors and glasses on. You might be nervous at first but you will find you can do it. I am also assuming you will receive qualified instruction at a range. This is not “backyard practice” time. You can get in lots of trouble firing a gun within city limits most places and what if you shoot someone by accident? 6) Some of the “big names” like Colt, S&W, Beretta, SIG, etc. are very expensive. There is a company called Taurus that makes good quality firearms and has models similar to the others--for a lot less. Don’t buy a cheap “Saturday Night Special”--you want it to be reliable--and legal! 7) Sign up for a course and learn to shoot--they will also teach you about gun safety and how to work your particular model, i.e. loading and unloading, cocking, safeties, aiming, etc. I can’t stress this last point enough--some automatics are complex--remember, you want to be able to carry this thing easily and inconspicuously, and draw it without searching around for it in your purse or bag or catching it on your clothes. If you ever have to draw on someone for real, it won’t be like on TV, and it won’t be like at the range. It will be dark, you will be scared (hey that’s OK--I would be too!), you might be tired or have had a couple of drinks, and now is not the time to be wondering where you put the damn thing or how to aim and shoot.

Finally, I want to emphasize that you stay “legal.” Also practice, practice, and practice some more. And don’t let the fact that you are carrying a gun make you overconfident. Having a gun doesn’t instantly make you a “badass.” Don’t “wave it around,” or show it to everyone at the club and don’t suddenly start going into places you used to avoid. The reason you bought one is to possibly save your life. Never forget that. You are still the same sensible person you were before. You still want to avoid getting into a life-or-death situation if you can. But as we all know, sometimes it can’t be avoided. That’s what you will be prepared for.

Really good post man! And you're totally right about this.

BTW what's your opinion on carrying guns for self defense?

Well i never had any real hard lessons in street fighting, self defence
that is which is one of the reasons i carry a handgun.
i do have a license to carry a ( class A large capacity for All Lawful Purposes )
which means i can carry it any where execpt bank, post office, police station,
fire dept., anywhere else is fine. if i am approached or harassed in any way all i need to do is just reveal it, like pull it out then put it back that should
make them think twice, i only have just one handgun one is enough.

Hi there.

The problem with guns and those who carry them is, that first and foremost, shooting a target is very easy, shooting another human beeing is very hard, even shooting an animal is hard the first time when hunting.

If you are carying a gun, if you pull it out you have to be ready to use it, because most of the slime you will have to pull it out on know that a "normal" person will find it VERY hard to shoot someone.

Which brings me to the second thing, if you pull your gun and you back down you place yourself at even greater risk of getting hurt, and even beeing taken down and shot with your OWN gun.

And third it takes 2 of 3 things to shoot someone (for the first time anyway):

- Alot of stupidity, and disregard for human life.

- Alot of fear for your life and hatred of your opponent.

- And the ability to override your sence of wrong when you are about to squeeze the trigger.

It takes a realy disgusting person to kill someone for the only reason of wanting others to fear him, and such a person would deserve to be killed himself to prothect others from him, but doing so would place you in the same path as he was.

And killing someone is only the begining, you HAVE to live with it for the rest of your life, that and the fact that if he was part of a gang, the others will likely come after you, and then you have to kill them or they kill you, you have to remember that while they ARE cowards, they have been embolden by being part of the gang and the "safety in numbers" it generates, so they WILL come after you.

And the cops aren't much help either, they will treat you as a suspect, and even if they know that you acted in self defence, they cannot do anything to help because of A) They are afraid of the gangs, and B) They are out gunned by the gangs And C) The law is too soft and criminals are not rehabilitated, and the death penalty is alnost never envoqued, and when it is they get stay of execution, after stay of execution, which there should only be 1 or 2 permited afterwards, they would be dis-regarded.

So where are those super heroes when you need them?

JohnDowe.

John makes some good points. I haven't had to pull my pistol on anyone, but if I had to, I would and I'd use it. My concealed carry instructor told us, "Deadly force must be used only as a last resort." and "This is the most important class you'll ever take. After today, you'll have the power of life and death in your hands and the responsibility not to use it."

Oh yes
i forgot i do use pepper spray for defence also, i cannot use stunguns, the law says no way! stunguns are outlawed in our state.
strange law we have here on guns they are okey to have and stunguns are not,but with some people, pepper spray has no effect on them i herd
which is why i carry either one of them and both holstered.
if i have too i will just cross the street to avoid confrontations in the wee morning hours, but they are probably more afraid of me then i am of them
i worry more when they walk in groups too like 4 am in the morning going to work.

Last Resort
 

Hopefully this point was obvious in my original post. But it is still worth repeating. The whole idea of having a gun is as a last resort to save your life.

Also, I'm glad to see that you carry responsibly and have had instruction.

Be safe out there! :cool:

Super Heroes
 

Well, that would be me. But you can't find a telephone booth to change in these days! ;)

Seriously, one of my other main points was that if you have any moral or ethical issues with carrying or using a handgun--Don't do it! Learn some basic self defense "moves." Know your surroundings. Travel in groups. Keep your cell phone handy. etc.

We could discuss whether or not the world would be better off without guns but the fact is they are out there and are one option for self defense. Especially if one is small or outnumbered. Your attacker may likely have a gun. I believe that we all have the right to self defense. As I said "No one should have to live in fear. Period." :cool:

What to Carry?
 

Someone asked me for recommendations. Here are two:

The first is a "Smith & Wesson" Model 19 .357 Magnum. But you don't want to load it with "magnums" until you are a more experienced shooter. Try a ".38 Special" hollowpoint instead. Notice the grips.

The second is a "Beretta" Model 92 9mm. Again you can use hollowpoints for self-defense. I used to own one and taught my "ex" to shoot with it. FYI - she was about 5'5" and 125-130.

I couldn't help but include the last picture. Clint definitely has the "biggest"! LOL! Can you spot the "subliminal message"? It's even pointing straight UP!

I got a 357 magnum just like the model 19 you posted and i would recommend
the model 19 too. i use 357 shotshells for defense. also another good gun
is a 380 auto its like the 9m/m too but smaller and lighter and hardly any kick its also like a ladies auto too.
if this gun is for a lady then i would recommend the glock 380 auto.

Beretta 9mm
 

My sis and I each have a beretta 9mm. We went to the range the other day .I out shot her.What a sight we were.:lol:
But I carry my pepper spray more often than the gun,don't need some crazy taking it.:no: sue b
(short & sweet)

Thanks Icekiller! Glad you liked it. Yes. I think carrying a gun can be an effective means of self defense. Just remember to "stay legal," get training from a qualified instructor, handle your gun responsibly, and never forget that it should always be your "last resort." :cool:

Knives also make for good defense weapons if you are unable to carry a firearm for what ever reason. The Democratic Peoples Republic of Kalifornia prohibits me from carrying a firearm on my person, so I carry cold steel. It is a blade I made from 5160 and 4140.

Replacement for the "19"?
 

DSL,

I went to S&W's site today and found that they quit making the "Model 19." There is a new Model "386" that has a seven shot cylinder. I've never fired one but it looks pretty good. See pic...

Bad news MSRP = $1,074!

Also like your suggestion of the .380. Good choice. You can get a Walther PPK in this caliber. "Bond, James Bond..."

I strongly believe in the right to self defense. Luckily I've never been in a physical fight but I have been in situations where it could have led to one. I carry a knife for emergencies. While in the house, I carry a holstered Sig Sauer P230, in case of home invasion. My neighbor was robbed a month ago, which is when I started carrying it on me in the house. I've also had an incident with a local gang who did a drive-by on my house, denting my car some as well as my roommate's car. The drive-by was not targeting us but a man was killed as a result, this also happened about a month ago but this is a whole 'nother story. I live up the street from a gang and drug zone. The three of us (me and my roommates) are trying to find a place to move to but we get denied all the time so far, we're all transsexuals. Anyway, I carry that gun on me in the house. I do not own a carrying permit, so the gun doesn't leave the house. My car is also a weapon. I've placed ram bars on it. Scares and deters criminals and annoys the police. Works very well at deterring crime. Pic is my car.

Cool car
 

Great idea! I like it. The cops don't like it 'cause it looks like one of them but there's nothing they can do about it. I had a friend that had a white Crown Vic and he put bars on it just like yours. Heck, I'd slow down if I saw you! ;)

Knives
 

You think Governor "AH-nold" would have fixed that! :(

Sounds cool. Can you post a pic of it? :respect:

Unfortunately, NO for both questions. California is way too "liberal" to let any legislation regarding lawful carry of firearms. The Governator has his hands tied with hippies and annoying soccer moms taking away individual rights "for the sake of the children".

Also all the pics were on my camera and it got lost. :(



Here's a pic you might enjoy.

Thanks. Here's another...

owning firearms
 

I own firearms because I want to. It is my right as an American citizen. Do I have a need for one? That should never be asked. Not the point, I have them because I want them. And if you think a .22 is no good , care to stand in front of me while I put a few in your face? I hunt for food and fun. Never had a problem killing deer or birds. I teach my sons to hunt too. I'm a bone collector love antlers. I'll stop for a road kill and take it's head. You should have seen the faces of all the big tough black guys I used to work with ( who always made fun of me) when I'd pull some rotten deer head out the side box on the truck and would cut it's antlers off. I told them I have no problem cutting the head off a rotten stinking deer carcass. I'll have even less problem cutting off your head your nice and fresh.

???
 

What didn't you like about my post? I have a background in martial arts and was raised around firearms. I'm all for people standing up for their rights. No one should ever have to live in fear of anyone. I wrote it thinking it would help somebody--especially someone who never considered owning a gun or using one before--too many people become victims needlessly. I hope you realize I'm on YOUR side! :(

I have to agree with Rachel; while my .22 might not have "stopping power", it can kill someone just as dead as anything else. The disadvantage of using a larger caliber is (according to the law in my state); if you shoot your attacker and the bullet drills through your attacker and strikes and/or kills someone else, then you're responsible for the other person.

If you are OK with using a .22 that's fine. My own handgun training discussed "stopping power" and whether or not an attacker might still be able to come after you. The minimum recommended was a .380. Some of the modern .22 loads with hollow points can pack a pretty good punch too so if you are OK using that then that's what you should go with.

It looks like we are beginning to lose track of the intent of my original posting which was to encourage people to not be afraid to stand up and defend themselves. Also if they do decide to get a gun--to learn how to use it--safely. I have taught many people how to shoot and several people on this forum have told me they really liked my post.

Firearm ownership
 

Your posts were ok but you missed several important points I feel. One thing I do feel stongly on is Should you buy a gun? The answer should have been YES if for no other reason then that you CAN. Your liberal friends would have us all as subjects to the Crown in a disarmed populace. Another thing you didnt emphasize is a survival attitude. It's them or me! Fuck consequence! And I'll tell you this... Anyone ever did to me or my family like what happened to the member beaten up by cops there would be some people sporting some extra holes in them. Whomever they were.

My own feelings on the matter are much like yours actually--almost identical. Perhaps I should have been more forceful in my original post? Did you see what I own? That I have a license to carry. That I do carry. I also have a 12 ga Remington 870 if anyone should break into my home as well as an AR-15. My liberal friends and I disagree about this issue (as well as many others). I am most definitely NOT your typical academic. ;) I was trying to "contrast" my own views with theirs--and obviously didn't do a very good job--at least in your eyes...

I live in New York so unfortunately, I can't own an AR-15. I want to move to Florida, where it is warmer and because gun laws are pretty awesome.

On a sad note, regarding the need for self defense and weapons, my roommate just informed me that two of her friends were murdered yesterday, both of them transsexuals, by gun shot. They apparently were witnesses to a murder. Witness protection apparently failed or the police simply didn't care.

I'm sorry to hear that.:( It seems that New York, Maryland and California have the most draconian laws regarding firearms. :censored:

Well i was listening to my police scanner yesterday afternoon
and i herd over the radio some guy got stabbed!, down the street from
where i live. it was so serious they rushed him to the hosiptal,
and 4 police cruisers there. which is one of the reasons why i pack
a handgun around here!... to top it off the local police dept. is just a half mile
away too.a guy at work had his bike stollen from him right out of his
apartment a brand new mongoose if that were my bike i
i told him i would have giving him my knight stick right up side of his head,
poor guy went out and got a new bike and he is unarmed.they will be more on the stabbing tonight on our local ch. 12 news.

Stabbings & Gang War
 

I live about 1/4 miles away from a drug and gang zone called "Yates Village" which is an apartment complex neighborhood. Everyday and I literally mean EVERYDAY, police, fire and EMS speed by my house to go there. Everyday there is a stabbing, on occasion a shooting. Fortunately they seem to keep the violence and BS within their own little complex section but there have been incidents of crime at my house. I live in a small apartment building. My neighbor's apartment was robbed. The only thing missing was a big flat screen TV. Not long after, a shooting occurred right in front of my apartment and WE (my roommates and me) are involved in the incident. I posted a Myspace blog about what was going on. It's a gang issue. A man was killed in a drive-by on my front steps.

Not to de-rail the thread but for anyone interested in the gang issue, which is somewhat on subject, here is the blog I wrote about the gang incident at my apartment, copy and pasted:

"I am caught in the middle of a gang war in my city, Schenectady, New York. A guy me and my roommates used to be friends with stole $600 and a gun from me and $178 from my roommate. He fled before we knew he robbed from us. He was staying the night and while we slept, he took the items and left. We called police a couple days later, when we first noticed the stuff missing and filed a report. A warrant for his arrest was served for Grand Larceny in the Third Degree, a Class D felony in New York State. Weeks later the dumbass has the nerve to call my roommate and admits to stealing the money but denies stealing the gun. He claimed that he stole my money so he could bail his mother out of jail or some shit. He was supposedly in South Carolina or Georgia. A week ago we find out the truth. In the middle of the night, the brother of the guy who robbed us comes banging on the door of our apartment, covered in blood. My roommates refuse to open the door and call police. A minute later five gunshots are fired from a passing car. Apparently he dies of his wounds later on. The drive-by shooting resulted in dings, dents and scratches on my car and on my roommate's car from bullet impacts. We didn't know anything about what was going on, who came to the door and why this happened until a few days later when two gang members came to the house while me and one of my roommates was out. My second roommate was home alone and like a fucking idiot, answered the door and talked with the two men. They said that the guy who was shot was the brother of the man who stole from me. Apparently the guy who robbed me never left Schenectady. He stole the money and gun for a gang initiation. His dumbass joined a gang (Bloods, Crips, etc I don't know or care) and his brother stole $1,000 from him. That is why he was shot and chased to our apartment and then killed from the drive-by. These gang members that came to house are looking for revenge for the drive-by and want to know where the guy who robbed me is. They knew that he used to be friends with us and frequently hung out at our apartment. That is why they came, looking to kill him. My roommate explained that he no longer is friends with us because he robbed me. Even after the explanation, the idiots threaten to kill us if we had anything to do with the shooting. I get back from shopping with my roommate and she explains about who came to the apartment, etc. She doesn't want to call the police. She fears they will come back. Apparently they were coming back anyway because they want to talk to me. I said if they come back, people are gonna die. Not long after, guess who calls my roommate again.... the guy who robbed us, wanting to know if anyone came to the house asking about him. I'm now armed at all times while in the apartment and installed a security camera outside the apartment. If anyone tries coming back to this apartment, a fire fight is going to break out and I will put that shit on YouTube, unedited. I am now hunting for the guy who robbed me and the moment I find him, will chase him down and arrest him under citizens arrest laws. I couldn't actually care less about justice. I want my $600 back. So here I am now, in the middle of a gang war. Both sides have made threats or are threatening in nature toward me and my roommates. Police are useless because of their response time (about 45 minutes). Police are aware of the drive-by incident and are aware of the robbery incident. There is nothing else they can do. So at this point, I sit at home with a gun in a holster, on my waist, waiting for someone to try and fuck with me. Oh and what makes this worse is that gang members are typically not fond of transsexuals.

August 30 Update: The guy I am now hunting to get my money back has joined a variation of the Bloods. Apparently their color is yellow. They are from New York City. I didn't know what gang he joined but now I know. Bloods variant. I hate the Bloods. I've had previous problems with them when I used to live in Newburgh, New York. That issue didn't last too long and wasn't as severe as the current crisis. Today my roommate was driving home from the store and spotted the guy I was looking for. He saw her as well and fled into his house. I know where he lives now. I'm deciding on what I should do. If I was to call police, they can check out the house but without a warrant to search, they can't enter. He does have a felony warrant for his arrest though. Both of my roommates now fear an imminent attack because of the random run-in of my roommate and the guy. This is it. D-Day is closing in.

Additional Note: I previously stated that the guy I am hunting shot his brother because the brother stole $1,000 from the gang. This is not true. Apparently the guy I am hunting was required to both steal cash (he stole from me) and had to shoot his own brother, to get initiation into the gang. The murder and robbery was a gang initiation."


That's my blog. I am no longer hunting for the guy but the situation still exists. I carry a knife in my purse while out of the house. My car is a weapon as well as the high powered pellet rifle in the trunk of the car which can and will kill if shot in the right place. While in the house, I have a gun holstered on my waist. I also plan on buying pepper spray for my purse.

On a happier note, here is a banana fucking a banana >>>>> :coupling:

you are the master!

Hott!!! I love an armed gurl... ;) Sexy!!! Don't know why anyone would ever want to hurt you though....

Dont judge me
 

Well Little Miss Pixie you struck a nerve with me. Unladylike? Hmm I thought we were talking life or death decisions here? And I thought you were talking about me head hunting road kills lol! And by the way Subjects of the Crown is a Revolutionary war era saying. And then you insulted all us Northerners by calling us Yankees. Be glad you live where you do. Here in New Germany( New Jersey) it's practically impossible to get a CCW permit unless you are very connected. I still carry occasionally though. I'd rather be judged by 12 then carried by six.

age and wisdom
 

20 years old and you think you know everything huh little girl? Maybe you should have a thread like Jenae's?

Nah , all you kids are know- it- alls LOL. I should know I have 2 teenagers. And I supervise two 22 year olds at work. You still fighting the Civil War? WTF was with the Yankee remark? Apparently you have never met any of us Jersey Girls. I'm sorry we arent the polite Southern belles like you. I grew up in North Jersey in the city. Ran the streets before you were even a twinkle in your daddies eye kid. Been in more fights then you could imagine. And still have a pretty face at 44 years old. Wanna know one of my secrets honey? Brass knuckles. They never expect a punch in the face they see an open hand.

Best weapon
 

Having lived in many dangerous areas in the US and abroad I have to say the best weapon is a sharp mind. First stay out of a potentially dangerous situations.

Second in close quarters the best weapon is one that can be deployed quickly and with the element of surprise. For most woman I think that mace or pepper spray is the best option. It is small, you can discreetly and non-threateningly hold it in your hand, and no real aim is required. It fits nicely even in a small purse or boot.

Remember almost all attackers just need to be slowed down or even surprised for you to make a successful escape.

For in home defense a gun is good but act responsibly and keep it locked at all times especially if you have kids or are visited by children. Again most of the time you will never need to discharge your weapon just showing it will do the trick.

BTW I am partial to 9mms

Here's some funny pics.

Can you please go back to posting videos and pictures of you being fucked? :coupling:

You've been here since January and the first thing you write is that?

>.>

<.<

-_-

well if your talking to me also just letting you know, i just moved here
2 months ago lol thought it would have been a quieter place but i didn't think so. well its not that bad around here now just that one stabbing
down the street but what was scary about it tho it happend 10 minutes
after i was walking up the hill to go home, and the guy who was stabbed was the same age as me 49.


I must be missing something.

Why don't you move?

Where I sometimes hang out...
 

Originally I am from Michigan as many of you know but I currently live in Indianapolis. If you live in the mid-west you have probably seen this guy on TV. He's actually pretty cool and drives a Corvette. :cool: This is where I have bought most of my "hardware" and usually practice. You can take anything up to a .44 Magnum in there. ;) Yes, that's a .50 cal in the picture. They have those too if you want!

I teach mostly at the IUPUI (Indiana University/Purdue University at Indianapolis) campus downtown and also at Bloomington. Indiana has some of the least stringent gun laws in the USA. I could go out and buy a pistol today and bring it home. I have a "lifetime" permit to carry as well. The only major "restrictions" involve "riverboat casinos" and "commercial aircraft." I am quite sure (not 100%) that you can own "fully automatic" weapons as well here.

Down in southern Indiana there a lot of places to shoot. Also great places to ride... Look me up if you are ever this way.

I want a Barrett M82. I heard they aren't that expensive. I saw one for about $9,000. What would be awesome to own is the Tavor TAR21. I love it. :inlove:

Bitchy Tirades
 

I feel I must say this to all on the Forum. I did get all bitchy with our new member Pixie and we had some harsh words posted towards each other. I did chat with her in private and I apologized and we kissed and made up. And yes Pixie, fear for your sanity as you get older! lol I'm a cranky, old ,fat bitch sometimes.

Some would say those are more endearing qualities. ;)

Out of all the weapons I have fired, these are my favorites(in no particular order):

Mk.19
M1 Carbine
M2HB
M240B
M1911A1
M1 Garand
M44 Mosin-Nagant
S&W .500

Indiana Gun Laws
 

Got to thinking about owning a machine gun in Indiana and couldn't find anything definitive. It looks like it is up to the Feds. My understanding is if you pay the tax--and register with the ATF as a dealer you can have a "Class III" weapon. Does anyone know more about this? As for our own "state" gun laws. They are lenient compared to the rest of the United States:

I looked at my own license and it does mention the "riverboat restriction." That falls under the Indiana Gaming Commission. Riverboat gambling is huge in Indiana (Ohio River and Lake Michigan). It also says my "lifetime license" can be revoked if I do not remain a "proper person." LOL!

"Angry Postman"... I had to go check out some of that stuff on the Internet. Were (are) you in the military? :respect:

The following is from "Mythbusters"--is that firepower or what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdxVr...om=PL&index=31

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3TWI...om=PL&index=30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC8jn...om=PL&index=24

Well the guns i have fired were.

colt 45 auto.
ruger mini 14 stainless full auto. awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYHyE...eature=related

S&W 44 magnum,
S&W 357 magnum
03-A3 springfield 30 cal.
12 gauge remington mag. pump
SKS semi auto.
30-30 marlin lever action
12 gauge double barrel

Si senor. I am still serving.

Ok
 

The other side of me.... 44mag. Ruger Super RedHawk (Why have to shoot twice to finish the job!) with a Crimson Trace Lazar sight grip (Shooting in the dark can be fun!) in a holster hung by your bed w/speed loader on alarm clock is very good home security!!! Also great to hunt deer with. (1.5 to 4x Burris Scope on it too reach out and touch someone you don't love) :inlove:

Hi there.

I am tempted to quote the movie "Shoot'em up" with Clive Owens...



JohnDowe.

Home Defence?
 

I'm not from the US, so what do you expect happens at your home? Are there so many psychos that want to kill you? Are house invasions really normal? Did you expect bomb belt terrorists or wild animals? Or what is it?
If someone wants to steal something out of your house, they usually do that when nobody is at home. Unless you build a spring gun they have only something more to steal.

In mind it would be nice if "friendly" people that knock your door Saturday 8:00 AM and want to speak about god, and then BOOM but I hate cleaning.

I was expecting such a comment eventually. You're European I take it? There are several reasons why someone would want to own a gun, home defense being one of them. Only an idiot would say something like "What are the chances of a home invasion actually happening? I don't really need to be prepared." Unless you live in a gated community with security patrols, your home is at risk at any moment. Now if you're like me and live in the ghetto and are a transsexual, you are at extraordinary risk of assault, rape, murder, home invasion, etc. I highly recommend arming yourself if you fall into this category of "high risk persons", such as myself.

But guns are not only for keeping out criminals but also for keeping out the government. You see, in America, our country was founded on the vital right to owning firearms to secure the nation from threats at home. We used our right to own weapons in 1776 to overthrow a tyrannical government. This right is necessary to keep the government in check. In the event of Martial Law or the establishment of a Police State or Totalitarian Dictatorship, the citizens can fight back and overthrow the corrupt government. In Europe and pretty much everywhere in the world, you have been stripped of your only defense against totalitarianism. Look at Australia and the United Kingdom. These countries are decaying into Police States and the people have no defense. Of course we're seeing this corruption rising in the U.S. too. Civilian gun ownership is vital to the national security of the nation.

Bullshit Laws In The US: This is why we need guns.

*ACTA :censored:
*Patriot Act :frown:
*Massachusetts Senate Bill 2028 :censored:
*Kentucky House Bill HB 775 :censored:
*GIVE Act :(

Note that the GIVE Act's original threat to civil rights was removed before it was passed. The original text outraged many people including Congress and the Senate.

I expect that the sanctity of my home is respected by my fellow citizens. It is not a shelter or a bank; is is the dwelling of another person.

Depends on where you live but generally no. Psychos; NO, however there are criminals that will not hesitate to attack the resident if cornered and they are alot more common.

Also, dependent on your location. However, it isn't a stretch to say that home burglaries are the most common form of crime.

No. Wild animals are usually in rural areas and Bomb-belt terrorists can be found in The Sandbox(Middle East), Europe and any place with a significant Hebrew/Jewish population.

This is purely based on personal observation but everytime I've had my place broken into, it was at nighttime. Night tends to favor a criminal in that they are alot harder to identify and can make an easier getaway/it's alot harder to track them in the dark as opposed to broad daylight.

Not always true with the "they now have your weapons" arguement. Most folks will have their guns locked up in a safe which can weigh anywhere from +400 Lbs or have a weapon on their person. Unless your average street thug has friends with him or has the body of Paleolithic man, he will not be going anywhere with a giant safe. Only idiots leave weapons where criminals or untrained children can touch them with their grubby little paws.

Whatever floats your boat dude. I personally do not wish anyone grievous bodily harm unless they make it clear that they intend to do so towards me; breaking and entering being one. Afterall, if someone is going to break into another persons house and do god-knows-what, then what assurance do I have that stealing is all they intend to do? A shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot conveys a homeowners intentions and assures a criminal that said homeowner will not put up with his shit. :yes: ;)

Nonsense! Their benevolent overlords are only "thinking of the children".

Ballistics porn!!!
 

On a different note, here are video clips of bullets striking different mediums and all captured with a 1,000,000 FPS camera! :turnon::coupling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg




BTW Tread, is your avatar of a Beanie Baby? Just curious because I have the Penguin and Koala ones. I'm a dork!

Protection
 

Hi Tread,

KittyKaiti and AngryPostman answered your questions better than I could have. In the United States we have ten amendments to our Constitution known as the “Bill of Rights” that guarantees certain freedoms. It is fundamental to our system of governance--indeed our very “way of life.” The first right is the “freedom of speech” that is so well known. The second is the right “to keep and bear arms.” Our country was founded on the principles of individual rights and the right to be free from tyranny. What is commonly known as the “revolutionary war” was actually a war for independence. One of the ways of insuring our independence and freedom was to support an armed populace. We take this right quite seriously.

When I joined this forum, the last thing on my mind was guns! However, I started this thread in response to the beating of one of our members. Yes, there are sometimes people out there that want to hurt others--even kill. I grew up in one of our most dangerous cities--Detroit. Check it out on the Internet if you like. We lived in a “good” neighborhood by comparison but there were still burglaries, robberies, assaults, rapes, and murders. Yes, there is a police department but the reality is they arrive “after the fact” and typically don’t provide a deterrent for hardened criminals. In the end, you really must be prepared to defend yourself.

Alternatives to guns include Karate or Judo, chemical sprays, “tasers,” or knives. Not all of these are legal in all 50 states and if you are small or outnumbered, aren’t going to do much good anyway. Many of our members are also the target of “hate crimes.” Often these involve some kind of physical assault usually by more than one attacker. There are well documented cases of gay, lesbian, or transgendered individuals who have been beaten or even killed by their assailants.

My original post recommended learning to shoot and carry a gun for self defense. You can read my “profile” for more about me if you like. Currently I live in Indianapolis which is relatively “safer” than Detroit. However there was an incident a few years ago in one of our downtown parking garages where I am absolutely certain that the fact I was “carrying” saved my wife and myself.

Hope this helps you to understand a little more about the reasons for owning a gun. BTW what country are you from? Also I like your avatar! :)

Andrew

My question was about home defence and not about owning, or carrying a gun.

Hate crime, murder, rape, violence and so on usually happen on the street and not at home.
I can't belief that someone invades and garrison your home, why should someone do this?

I don't understand, there are common cornered criminals that attack uninvolved homes? Why?

Yes that's my personal observation. In nearly all cases I know that a Thief's notice that someone is present in the building that they break in, they try to escape. Is that not the case in the US? (I don't know)
A Thief tries to avoid confrontation. It is easier to get away if nobody is there to identify, than at night and wake up the house owner. The best would be at night and nobody is at home.




I signed pictures I have made with a, under UV-Light, glowing Scorpion. I don't wonder that other find it scary or disgusting in first, but didn't changed it. For my Avatar I wanted a nice friendly pic combined with the glowing Scorpion. I quick drew little changes, mouth colour, to a stuffed Scorpion I found on the net.
I thought it was a plush animal for $19.95. But you are right, also I didn't find it on their site. And it's only $4.87 with shipping at Amazon, I want to have it.

My sister had her house broken into by 2 would-be bank robbers who were armed. Not 5 mintues after she left, they broke in. Now suppose she hadn't left when she did, her and her baby would be at the mercy of 2 felons who were hopped up on meth and swinging pistols around. The cops had them barricaded inside the house and it took about 20 rounds of CS to flush them out. They broke and entered but do you really want to trust criminals who have a history of violence that they are not going to harm you in any way?

Not sure what you mean by this but what I was trying to say that the odds of running into someone of the likes of Charles Manson or John Wayne Gacy are relatively slim, whereas the odds of running into a felon who will not hesitate to escalate to violence when cornered are significantly higher.

If said perp has one more strike against him and will be going away for a long time if he's caught, he's not going to put up his hands and smile sheepishly and say something like, "Oops! Ya caught me red-handed!" The perp is not trying to go back to jail and will do what is necessary to stay away from bars, even if that means hurting or killing someone.

The most common mistakes people make is that:

1) The criminal only wants valuables.

2) The criminal will never hit my house because I live in a good neighborhood or something along those lines.

Crime can happen anywhere. Period. How often it happens is dependent on where you live.





While they try to avoid confrontation, most criminals have a history of violence and are repeat offenders. People like that will not hesitate to hurt someone if it means accomplishing their objective.

Robbing a house is a crapshoot. Regardless if it is day or night, someone will either be there or not be there. Unless you recon the place prior to the bust, a simple smash and grab is never as simple as that.

Simple fact is that you did not invite them into your abode and they are unwanted. Being unprepared in your own home is an unnecessary risk for a false sense of security.

Cool!

I'm sorry to hear your criminals are so stupid that they try to escape in a random house instead of try to get away. But would it help if you were at home with a gun you have to get out of the safe when armed criminals suddenly break in? If they are surprising, it would be too late even the gun is at a particular open place in your house. Is the risk lower to get harmed if you have a ready gun at home and caught off guard?

How do those criminals get so easy in the house? A broken window can be pretty dangerous if someone wants to hurry through, and a looked door shouldn't be easy to open without proper tools or by a non professional.


I don't want to discus if it is better to confront armed criminals with guns or to cooperate. I don't see the reason to extra argue with home defence, and the need of bigger guns for it.

They are not stupid. What I was trying to say was that the criminal will always try to escape, even if it means that they will have to go through you.

Most of the time, a spare gun is within ready reach of the occupant. Unless they break in through your bedroom window or you live in a studio, you will have a couple seconds to a couple minutes of time to arm yourself. I for example have my Mosin right under my bed with 4 in the mag and 1 in the chamber. Should I hear the sound of breaking wood or glass, I can have it locked and loaded and in the low-ready position in under 2 seconds. At a walking pace, it takes about 6 seconds to make it from the front door to my bedroom and half that for running/jogging pace. That extra second allows me to orient my sights.

Broken windows can be dangerous but odds are that the criminal is a repeat offender and has done it before. You wouldn't believe how easy it is to bust through a doorlock. Hell, most doorknobs use the same key. Go to a hardware store and check out the selection of locks and compare the makes and models and the accompanying keys. The keys are varied but they are pretty much the same. The different models of locks even have the same serial number which means that the key from a brass doorhandle will work on a brushed stainless steel doorhandle is the serials match up or are close enough. Not as infallible as most people think.


I know. I was just trying to explain some differences. :respect:

Hi all.

Did you mean the one about "a pussy with gun" thing?


Sandra.

In my opinion they are stupid, there is no way out of a surrounded house, and they are going longer in jail by doing this and even longer (maybe death penalty) if they kill people.

Usually the lock is the most stabile part of the door, then the door itself and the door angles are the weakest. I don't know how it is with your door knob combined with look. It seems to get easier to the mechanics cause a big part is in front of the door.
There is a big variety of cylinder locks, Pin Tumbler Locks are not the only ones. If the hardware store sells such mass product keys, I wouldn't use it for my main door. But it needs a lot of luck to find a fitting lock that opens with your key if you are on the run after a bank robbery.



If this sort of crime is common, yourself or people you know are victims of this, I can comprehend your home defence point of view.

If this is in reference to the robbers who broke into my sisters house, then yes, they are stupid. I won't argue that. But they are the exception, not the rule.

Actually the hinges are stronger as opposed to the lock. You have more points of contact on the hinges compared to the deadbolt. Deadbolts and Doorjambs can be busted open by a wellplaced flathead screwdriver and a swift kick(I know because I got locked out of my home once;) )

Again, what happened to my sis was the exception, not the norm. A smarter criminal would get keys no problem and make for a cleaner job; your run of the mill street thug is rather impulsive and stupid. Home burglaries are common; the occurence of break-ins just depends on where you live at.




*Sorry for dragging this on. Talking to you is rather enjoyable*

No need to excuse.

If it is the exception I don't see the need for extra a home defence weapon.
A good equipped would use an electronic lock pick. Opens every Pin Tumbler Lock in one or two seconds. The easiest way would be a crowbar.
Home burglaries are not killer, and I think they don't want to become one. Smart ones would observe before break in so they can get most profit out of it with low risk to get caught.

Take a wafer tumbler lock and a screwdriver doesn't work.
Maybe we are talking about different doors and locks.
1. pic: Is that how your locks look like? (was a good pic of it never mind what language)
2. pic: These I know the best. A big snapper and a separate lock bolt, but more bolts turned at the same time are not rare. The lock is fully in the door. It seems like that the doorframe is also much thicker.

The whole bank-robber-breaking-into-my sisters-house is not the norm. However someone breaking into a house looking for valuables is far more likely to occur. Locks are not impenetrable. With the right tools even the toughest of locks can be broken. All locks do is buy time for someone to ready themselves against attack. If you use locks and various devices to safeguard your valuables, why would you not have an added assurance for your most valuable possession; your life? Saying that you will never need to protect yourself from bodily harm because locks will always deterr someone is like not having a Plan B. It's like the old infantry saying goes,"If your assault is going as planned, you are walking into an ambush."

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

I haven't encountered many doorknobs like the second one. I take it those are more prevalent in dwellings where you live rather than here in the US. I've only seen them on school doors and Gov. buildings and I've seen them get opened by a credit card or something of similar thickness.

Help!
 

When seconds count the police are only minutes away!

The fact is, Tread, that no matter what the risk is, whether low or high, it is not smart to be unprepared for any form of attack. I don't care what the statistics are or what happens more or less frequently. The fact is that at any time, an armed robbery or other home invasion can occur and I would rather have a weapon, preferably a firearm, ready to kill a mother:censored:er, should someone come breaking down my door.

I don't think Thief's want to fight with the house owner or getting identified, and I don't think they kill everyone they met while breaking in. Also I don't think it is a, if I don't shoot him he will harm me, situation. But I don't know how it is in a county where nearly every criminal is armed with guns.
An ambush at military, war or on the street is different and can happens, but at your home? And if someone creates an ambush at your home you're dead before you notice anything.

The door overlap the wall, so there is not a directly gap to the snapper. A credit card is not long and not flexible enough to open the snapper. Have most US doors a direct gap to the snapper/bolt?
The lock and key service have cards that can do this, but this only works with the snapper and not with the bolt that locks the door. It happens often that people accordantly shut a door, without handle or knob on the outside, and forgot the key. I guess you experienced it by locking you out, as the most do with doors that only can be open with a key form outside.



You could also prepare against fire (much higher risk) with an automatic fire-extinguishing system, protect your house and you against meteorites or prepare for naturally viruses, dirty bombs, biological, or chemical weapons with face masks or ABC-Masks.

It would save much more life if more people would learn first aid than having a gun for home defense.

Why should a Thief kill you and should other people invade your home?

Well, I own two fire extinguishers, have a gas mask and was trained for first aid and CPR, so.... your point?

Wait.... did you just say what I think you said?

"It would save much more life if more people would learn first aid than having a gun for home defense"

Are you saying that it would be better for me or a roommate to get shot, stabbed, etc and for me to know how to save her life rather than for me to own a firearm and kill the intruder before he can do anything? -_- >.> <.< :frown:


"Why should a Thief kill you and should other people invade your home?"

I dunno, ask them the next time you meet one. They do it because they're stupid, poor, an asshole or who knows.

Like Tread i'm from outside of the US and live in jolly old england and i think growing up without guns around hasn't had much of a negative result on my life.

I in no way though agree with Tread though on the whole just learn First aid and everything will be better thing. i agree with everyone else on being prepared and ready as well as knowing first aid

I've come to label nearly everything in my sight as a weapon and how to use it like one such as a pencil, keys, spray cans (well those are obvious) and other everyday normal objects.
I guess it really all started when i was younger. after school me and my friend were leaving but i forgot something in a class room. when i got back from getting it i found my friend being held up by someone with a penknife. some of the teachers tried grabbing him but he got away. ever since that day i felt so pathetic that i didn't do anything from being scared so i took up several martial arts and even practiced some sword arts (for meditation not for combat) to help and now ever since doing that i see everything as a weapon for self-defense not to say that i don't have any weapons in my house i do but they're all blades BUT i know how to use all of them confidently. i even at times wear weighted gloves when i go out so that i'll have some help if i ever do run into trouble. my whole life i've never once thought how much safer my life would be with a gun even though the gun rate is increasing aswell as the murder rate due to guns. i trust myself 100x more than i'd trust a gun if it were me i'd rather carry nothing because unlike most with guns (now this is a guess correct me if i'm wrong) i've been trained through martial arts to disarm and take a knife or gun off of someone without using a lot of effort. i mean at the end of the day this thread is here to help people learn self defense and that means EVERYONE. most people can't afford or are in a country that has banned guns so for all of them we need to address hand to hand combat more than just talk about what guns to buy and even for the members that do have guns it doesn't hurt to learn a few moves to saves your life.
In the end guns run out of ammo. knifes or hands/feet don't. not trying step on any toes but i just feel a LOT safer putting my life in my own hands rather than a guns.

I wanted to say that a lot of people die every day by accidents, heart attack, apoplectic stroke, allergic shock and so on, because folks around don't do anything helpful. And I doubt that there are many cases where a home defence weapon saved life.

Only met once people who killed other in a drug gang fight, but didn't have something to do with them or talked much with them, but they had a clear financial motive.

Exemplary! Didn't expect this.
I thought CPR is part of first aid, nevermind. Many learn it only once in life forget it fast and don't know what to do in a serious situation, but your training is probably not many years ago, so you're able to execute it.
By a fire, most people suffocate from smoke while sleeping, but I guess you have smoke detectors as well.

I find it unnecessary to prepare against unlikely risks, like meteors, terrorism, home invasions or bloodthirsty Thief's (unless you life at a place where this is not the exception). And the most forget that driving by car, working in the garden, doing sport or getting infected from by other human has a multiple higher risk.

If you want to prepare for everything, it's OK. In my opinion overdone, but no offense here. I myself overdo it with personal information's on the internet, being paranoid in giving info or pic's away.

I only want to understand why so many justify an extra big calibre weapon with home defence. For me it implies a little guilt for owning it. They have it cause they say they need it (and I don't see the need), and not cause they want to have it.


@SweetCharmer
Makes sense and I prefer this too, but in the US too many people have already guns, and disarming works only if you are close enough.

Why should I feel guilt for having something(whether I want or need it)? That is like asking "You have 2 perfectly good feet. Why do you need a car?"

Mr. Tread I would like to ask you a couple questions:

1) Do you place such little value on your life that you would rather not own an efficient weapon with excellent standoff?

2) If someone broke into your house, can you tell if they were a rapist, serial killer, robber etc.?

3) Are you sure enough of a criminals intentions that you would trust that he would want to only steal your belongings and nothing more?

4) What would you do if a psychotic person broke into your house and started threatening you or your family?

5) Do you live in Europe?

You could not be more wrong about that. There is a plethora of recorded cases where weapons have saved people from rape, murder, physical abuse within the family home. I will post some later.

Not every criminal is armed with a gun. Alot more crimes are committed with knives and bludgeoning weapons nowadays.


You misinterpreted what I was trying to convey with the whole "ambush" thing. I was trying to bring the point across that you should always have a back up plan. Locks, while useful, won't stop a determined criminal. All they do is buy you time to ready yourself. There is only so much you can do defensively before you have to go on the offense. Should I go on the offense, I would like to have a weapon that I can easily reach out and touch someone with rather than having to get up close to use a weapon.

Saying that locks are good enough seems rather shortsighted. Afterall, if locks did such a good job, we would not have to worry about home invasions. ;) Having a weapon at home is like having an insurance policy; It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

8 Seconds Saloon in Indianapolis
 

Only in Indiana... Some genius thought it would be a good idea to have a "2 for 1." One bar has a "Country & Western" theme and the other is a Hip Hop Club that also books heavy metal bands. Needless to say it makes the 11 o'clock news all the time. Some of the Pacers and Colts hang out there as well. Most incidents happen in the parking lot--the bar is in a very bad part of Indy. I went there once with my "ex" and I was "carrying." ;)

Sleep Walking Security
 

Yes, we have fire detectors but I also have something else on my side. I guess its a rare or possibly some sort of a lucky disorder or malfunction of my brain but my subconscious/unconsciousness takes control of my body when I'm sleeping. I can be completely unconscious or simply asleep and people tell me I get up and walk around, respond to questions, do things, etc (sleep walking). I wake up and my roommates will tell me I got up and did something or said something and I'll say, "no I didn't". My subconscious must be responding to questions or incidents for me while I'm "out". It's weird. Anyway, what I'm getting at is one day I was in an accident and completely knocked unconscious but then I got up and got myself to safety. My friends watched this happen and told me what I did when I finally "came to". There is no way I could have been conscious from such an impact to the head. My point is that I have some sort of natural security system where if I'm in danger and unconscious or asleep, my body takes control and does stuff for me. I believe that if we had a fire and there was smoke or if I was attacked while sleeping, that my subconscious will defend me or get me to safety. I'm not willing to test that theory but strongly believe it might be true. I guess that would be the best self defense weapon anyone could have.

Animals have a "higher" sense of danger. I'm sure it can exist to different degrees in humans as well. One night a while back (April 2008 I think) my two cats were going crazy running around and meowing and the dog was panting and pacing all over the house. At about 3AM I woke up to a low rumble and then the whole house started rattling and shaking--it was an earthquake. I had never been in one so at first I thought it might have been a tornado or a plane crash or something. Anyway, the cats and the dog could tell something was wrong several hours before it happened. I think people can have that ability too.

We also had a german shepard that could predict storms. You could tell if something was going to be really bad--like a tornado, by watching her. Same kind of "pacing" and whining. She also was a good watchdog!

That's great to have that ability. I think I have something like it too--but not as much.

Got it.

Yes I did.

I don’t worry about home invasions, but it has nothing to do with the locks. I even don’t worry if the door is wide open when I’m at home. I really rarely heard of violent robbery and real harm to someone in combination even less.

I would like to hear some, and I if a threat or action with an improved weapon, pepper spray or the weapon they carry for self defence had done the same success. I don’t see the “need” for weapons that blow elephants away or rifles for home defence.

I don’t know why you should, I even don’t know if you own one.
For me it sounds like an excuse to have a big home defence weapon, cause I don’t see the need. Maybe you can change that with the examples you want to post.
I have a car because I would walk 14 hours or 4 hours a day to get to work, depending where (changes sometimes). I need 1 hour to get one way to the city. And I don’t have to carry things I buy.

I don’t place a little value on my life, but I don’t own or ever touched a real gun, only paintball, airgun and things like this. You don’t have to own a gun if you put a vale on life. Some would even think complete the opposite.

I can’t, but I guess in nearly 90% it is a robber, in 5% its family, house mates or friends, and in 5% it’s a stalker.

For robbers 99%, except they want to rob me for ransom or my organs, but not here and not at my home.

I can’t say, I never was in a similar situation. Depends on the way of psychotic, the awareness, kind of threatening, my possibilities and what’s the best or/and fastest way to get out of it with the smallest harm to my family and me.
But projectile weapons could also hit my family, even a well trained SWAT-team or whatever can’t do this without risk, for my family, at close gun combat.

My irrational paranoia.:no:
From statements I have given in this forum and other info here it is supposable that I have something to do with Europe.

"Jesus is Watching You" (joke)
 

A burglar broke into a house one night. He shined his flashlight around, looking for valuables, and when he picked up a CD player to place in his pack, a strange, disembodied voice echoed from the dark saying, "Jesus is watching you."

He nearly jumped out of his skin, clicked his flashlight out, and froze. When he heard nothing more after a bit, he shook his head, then clicked the light on and began searching for more valuables. Just as he pulled the stereo out so he could disconnect the wires, clear as a bell he heard again, "Jesus is watching you."

Freaked out, he shone his light around frantically, looking for the source of the voice. Finally, in the corner of the room, his flashlight beam came to rest on a parrot. "Did you say that?", he asked the parrot.

"Yep," the parrot confessed, then squawked, "I'm just trying to warn you."

The burglar relaxed. "Warn me, huh? Who in the world are you?"

"Moses," replied the bird.

"Moses?" the burglar laughed. "What kind of people would name a bird Moses?"

"The kind of people that would name their Rottweiler Jesus."

Most people use medium to low power cartridges for sporting and self defense(Generally .30 cal/7.62 ranges are usually medium power and anything below that is low power.) Unless you own a rifle chambered for .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, 4 bore or 2 bore or a punt gun, your rifle, shotgun or hand gun is not going to stop an elephant. Rifles like the AR-15 can be tailored to the operators needs and fire cartridges that have a good compromise between stopping power and recoil. That is why they are seeing an increased use in home defense.

I own an M44 Mosin-Nagant and I primarily use it for target shooting and other recreational purposes, however it is also used as my home defense weapon. I don't have it just as an excuse for anything; I have it because it has a variety of uses; home defense being one of them.

You have a car because it is more efficient in terms of time, distance and practical uses, correct? I own a rifle because it is more efficient compared to OC spray and tasers because of the standoff distance which doesn't require me to get in within arms distance of an assailant to use it.

I behoove you to at least go to a range and shoot for a day. That way you can develop an accurate opinion of firearms. :) :yes:

Unless you know why someone is in your house, it is always better be on the cautious side. Especially if said person has forcefully uninvited themselves into your house.

There is something that a wise man named Col. Jeff Cooper wrote called:

The 4 Rules of Firearms Safety

1) The gun is always loaded. (Even if you have just unloaded it, you still treat it as if it was loaded)

2) Never point the gun at something you are not willing to destroy.

3) Keep your finger off of the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

4) Be sure of your target and what is beyond or around it.

Mr. Tread. Alot of these risks can be mitigated with common sense rules like this. Training is key when handling firearms. Should you become proficient in handling a firearm, you will not have to worry about accidently hitting your family as things like this will make you more aware of what you are doing and how you are doing it.

SWAT teams are usually called in for a barricaded hostage situation, not home invasions.

Smith & Wesson Model 500
 

Has anyone fired this thing yet? whats your thoughts how was the kick?
massive or just a little kick. me i wouldn't want to fire that thing in the
first place for one thing i think its outlawed in the state of Massachusetts
the handgun is the

Smith & Wesson Model 500 .50-Cal. Magnum Is The King Of Handguns
worlds most powerfull handgun.
the bullet would probably go right threw the gun range sand and tire backstop.

Yes I have. It has MASSIVE recoil and I was firing downloaded rounds. Even with the slightly less power, after 3 shots my wrist started hurting. It definetly fits the description of hand cannon! The only thing that I can think of that might have comparable recoil is this:

What worries me when i read this topic, is that how often crimes of an extreme nature seem to happen in america. This is just my thoughts, but surely if guns were illegal, sure you wouldent have one, but neither would the criminals. So crime would decrease. But thats just my 2 cents. Is there any Tgirl from the UK or elsewhere who needs to defend themselves on here? it would be interesting to find out how. as guns and knifes are illegal to carry in this country.

Well that must have been nasty i will stick with my 357 mag a light to moderate recoil action revolver my weapon does have a kick but doesn't
come close to matching that. i use at the range 38 spc. semi wadcutters.
for target shooting light and plinking loads and also full mettal jacket rounds too for home defense i use 357 shotshells and 911 which ever comes first
my home phone does have a one touch direct 911 dial number but it takes
at least 5 minutes or less before they arrive its those 5 minutes i am worried about.
somebody trying to kick the door in or stuff like that it can happen
it hasn't happend yet but you never know when i do have dead bolt security
locks in my apartment where i live and a auto flood light but someone can forget to lock the entry door.

Unlike most people here, I actually used to get robbed quite often when I was whoring in the big city. Most of the time I had my pants down, but a few times bad negroes robbed me up close and personal. One time in particular three young gangstas made their move on me in the stairwell of a large apartment building, in a real bad neighborhood. I was drunk enough to almost throw one of them over the bannister, but the liberal side of me gave up my wallet with the three dollars. The next time three negroes got me cornered in an alley, I negotiated the return of my wallet and credit cards. They got my cash. There were countless times violence could have been a solution, but I figure when you go downtown, sometimes you win, some times you lose.
I have a Colt.38 Detective special, small, and a revolver never jams. I also have a nice expandable Police Baton. I'd like to get a shotgun to complete my home protection package. Peace Out.

Awesome firepower
 

The biggest thing I've ever shot is a friend's .44 Magnum with handloaded 300gr rounds. That kicked pretty hard but was fun to shoot! Even in daylight you could see flame come out of the muzzle. The "normal" .44 Remington Magnum load uses a 240 gr bullet. I also shot it with a light "special" load (185 gr I think) and recoil wasn't bad.

I still prefer a 9mm, .40, .38 Special or .380 for defense. Maybe a .357 or .45 if you are experienced and can handle the recoil. My "ex" could handle my Beretta with no problem and she was only like 5'5" 130. Also the bigger the gun--the harder it is to conceal. You know Clint dosen't have to carry that thing around with him all day--he just returns it to the prop department when the scene is over! LOL! :cool:

For my home, a 12 ga works well. I have a standard Remington 870 that I got at K-Mart. I have added a pistol grip and a shorter barrel. My AR-15 would most likely go through the walls and kill the neighbors :( but it looks awesome!

I think a lot of ranges would ban the .50. I know Don's used to only allow up to a .44 factory load. No handloads. Sounds like it would be a "blast" to shoot!

If ever any of you are in Indiana or Michigan look me up.

The U.S. Supreme Court has overturned many gun bans because of the fact that banning guns does not lower crime. Banning guns remove guns from law abiding citizens. Criminals still find a way to get them. Banning guns would create the same scenario we had when we outlawed alcohol. It will generate crime, crime more vicious and hazardous than we have already.

criminals and such
 

One point that seems to be overlooked so far is that a lot of home break ins are committed by druggies

using a firearm to prevent violence
 

In this country Mr. Tread someone somewhere used their piece to PREVENT a crime today. And yesterday it happened and will tommorow. These occurances are not reported. Happened to me twice a few years ago. Did I report it? Of course not. More then likely I would have been interrogated and treated like the criminal. This happened 15 years ago when I was younger stronger and more manly lol. In the first instance my wife and I went to a dept store to buy baby clothes for our new son. The store (Sears) had multiple entrances and we were on the far side of the building more around the back. My now ex wife was putting our son into his car seat while I was standing in front of the car smoking a cigarette. While there were cars on either side of mine when we parked, there was now a large van on one side and a pickup truck on the other. Being alert and scanning the scene I see 2 underpriveledged youths come around the corner of the building and immediately point to our running car and pick up their pace confering amongst themselves as they changed direction towards us. My wife still had her fat ass sticking out the door cutting me off from her and my son. I look around... Nobody here but us sheep or so it seemed to the two would be car jackers. As they got closer they were now out of site behind the van. I used this opportunity to draw my Ruger .357 Had it pointing right over the top of the opened car door . Told wife to hurry up. I then see the two pass the back of the van and immediately turn into the space between our car. They stopped short and excitedly when I thumbed that hammer back and they realized we were no easy victims and beat a hasty retreat. Now had I not been armed that day Mr. Tread what do you suppose might have happened to my family?

carryingfor self protection
 

The second time I was alone at a large food store in the late evening picking up a few things on my way home from work. Since it was payday I cashed my paycheck at the store(with minmum $30 purchase). Taking my one bag I notice a middle aged man standing by the front windows of the store about 20 feet from me. As I start walking out I know he's following me. My car is parked about 150 feet away maybe the tenth car down the aisle. As I'm almost to my car I'm unzipping my jacket I can hear his pace increasing. I swing my jacket back and pop the retaining strap on my holstered .22 auto. He's now about ten short feet away. He sees this and immediately turns at a 90 degree angle and makes tracks. Now at that time in my life I was into lifting weights and martial arts. Hmm a 6'2" 220 pound man is no easy mark yet this criminal was willing to risk his own neck for that 600 dollars he knew I had. Desparate men do desparate things Tread, they arent all stupid. Had I not been armed with more then my fists and feet maybe I would have been stabbed or clubbed. Or shot who knows? In both these instances my pistols prevented crimes without firing a shot.

Unfortunately, this isn't true. If guns were illegal, only the criminals would have them as they do not follow laws. Only the law abiding citizens would be defensless because of their adherence to the laws that have been set forth.

Most ranges that I know of have banned the .50 BMG specifically. However, they still allow wildcat .50 cals. Some guy had 20mm cases necked down to .50!

http://nonannystate.blogspot.com/2009_1 ... 9925460286


The Governator has just signed a law requiring that you now get fingerprinted before you can buy ammo.

Fuck you Arnold and fuck you DPRK(Democratic Peoples Republic of Kalifornia) legislators!


I think it's about high time I GTFO of this god-forsaken state.


:censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: :censored::censored:

OMFG I couldn't believe that. That's a bull:censored: law if I've ever seen one.

American gun
 

Well here is a sad story but a true one as well, a coule yearsa ago
there were this couple man and women both married happily.
well any way they were upstairs in bed fast asleep one night
between the hours of 12 to 1 am suddenly the husband hears a noise
downstairs and somwe rumbling about which awakend him he get up
goes right for his service revolver a 38 spec. S&W snubnose he tells the
wife to stay calm and don't move.
finally he is standing at the top of the stairs and at the bottom of the stairs
was this black silhouette it was to dark to see who it was but by
blind instinct he pulls his weapon and fires!! down the stairs, killing who was
at the bottom. he went down to take a closer look it turned out to be his
16 year old daughter coming home late that night with her boy friend
her boy friend had just left dropping her off. he shot her right threw the chest killing her instantly
she was DOA at the scene.

which reminds me of the movie american gun if any of you saw it
that just the way it happend. but this was true they didn't charge him
with anything it was a terrible accident and she was in the wrong place at
the wrong time!.

which leave me with this all ways think twice before firing your weapon
you never know who might be at the bottom of those stairs
the farther had to be rushed to the hosiptal for shock
he turned in his revolver and promised never to pick up a gun again.

this was going back a few years but i had forgotten some of it
but i herd it happend again from another couple she was due to be married
with him and this women came home from work and she was shot accidently
by her due to be wed boy friend.

These are unfortunate incidents but could have been prevented through simple training. It doesn't cost much to go through a home defense class and you are taught proper engagement of a target and numerous other things. Even in the military, you are taught to issue a warning before you engage someone. It only takes a second to shout out,"Halt!" ,"Who goes there?" or "Identify yourself or I will fire upon you!"

Escalation Of Force training will help you to handle a situation without guns blazing. If you are going to be armed, take a class on how to properly use your weapon of choice; simple actions like learning how to properly handle a weapon and proper escalation and de-escalation of force and rules of engagement can save lives without ending them.

People need to understand that weapons handling is not like in the movies where you pick up a gun/knife/baton and suddenly you are an expert with nerves of steel. There are very real emotions that come into play such as fear and very real consequences that arise as a result of your actions. With proper training, you can overcome the stresses that might cause you to otherwise do something rash like firing without properly identifying your target.

If you choose not to properly train or go through the motions of proper weapons use, you have no business handling a weapon.

This is all well and good, but it's not happening. No training is required to own a gun. I found it ludicrous when California required training to buy mace but not a gun.:frown:

I first thought you use the AR-15 for home defence as well. Nice to hear you don't.

I totally forgot the US walls that are made of paper (exaggeration like to blow away an elephant). Why use weapons that go through humans and walls for home defence. That's a risk for uninvolved people.

If you use it primarily for sport, I don't see it as excuse. To buy a rifle, that is usually made for longer distances than handguns, for the reason of home defence sounds for me like an excuse, or a big calibre guns.

The difference is: I need something to travel time efficient, and no need for a big home defence weapon, in my opinion.

I can't just go to a range and shoot different weapons.
Don't know what an accurate opinion of firearms should help. I'm sure I would have fun shooting some guns, I would also have fun to shoot with or drive a tank through heavy terrain, little trees or cars, I would have, and had, fun blowing things up or shooting with a bazooka. In my opinion there should be as less possibilities, that this can happen in public or home.

There are too many people who can not handle things accountably.(nearly) everyone has the right to handle loaded weapons at home, even they shoot through walls? You don't let everyone drive a car, unless they killed some with it. You have to prove your knowledge, responsibility and skills before you're allowed to dive freely.

But, my question's was about home defence and not firearms in general.

Right! It could also be a person you don't want to hurt.
It seems like you and some other have the responsibility in use with guns, but that's not a precondition to use it and I'm sure many don't follow that rules or train enough.

You can never 100% sure at a moving target or about ricochet bullets from bones or objects, especially a family member is close to the psychotic person. Training and HP/SP ammunition can lower the risk, but it is still there.

The psychotic threatening/hostage situation wasn't that far away from SWAT, for a shooting example, or.

And even more to do a crime.

I didn't want to discuss weapons for self defence or in general, but you ask me directly to it.

I can't say what would have happened. There are not many facts to build a clear picture about the situations. Not one of the three persons that walked in your direction has threatened you or your family. A violent potential or weapons wasn't visible either, expect by you.
You judge them to be criminal by their looks, age and walking in your direction. You should always be aware in suspicious settings, but it's not sure they were criminals. In the second case, if he watched you the whole time, and waited for you, he is supposable after your money.

If you want to say swinging around a gun on street keeps people away, if criminal or not, you are right.

You don't have to answer, but I like to know:
Are you ever violent or by threatening robed while being at home?
Why do you want an additional shotgun to complete home protection?