I Hate...
 

Lots of threads about what you love, what about what you HATE.

So-called "reality" television...BigBrother etc :censored:

Hate
 

I HATE:

-People who says videogames are bad and they haven't play one EVER.
-Homophobes, they're like peacocks....
-Mistreaters
-People who says "I like every style of music" "Really? Do you like Sepultura?" "Well, not this kind of music" Then you don't like EVERY music style.
-Fascists
-Patriotism

...well, there's millions of things I hate, I'll post more when I have more time.

I hate humans.

I used to hate being stood up on dates, but these days I look at tham as a chance for some "me time". I bring along a book and have a nice dinner or go see the movie I actually wanted to see, but agreed to see something we'd both like. It's a good thing I never agree to go on a date uless I know I can afford to pay my half *wink*

seriously...

I hate people who give opinions without knowing what they are talking about.
I hate people who a cruel to animals and children
I hate looking for work (glad that's over)
I hate when I'm cranky
I hate the way people drive in the rain
but mostly (see below)

I hate having absolutely no patience to sit here and type out all the things I hate......it would seriously waste a lot of my time, and I hate wasting time :cool: lol

I hate dumb people

pink i think nearly everyone does but i also hate jack thompson. he's the one who tried to pin the V tech shooting on movies and games

Jack Thompson will be in the next Ace Attorney game. He's way better than Phoenix Wright (and sexyer)!!!

though i love music, i hate the music "indu$try".

i also hate partisan politics.

religious conservatives who cannot understand the need for separation of church and state (though they don't care about "thou shall not kill".....so they keep THAT part of their religion away from their politics. Awfully convenient. Cherry picking morons. Unlike any vague or ambiguous passages about homosexuality, the not killing part is an actual commandment.)

and super politically correct liberals whose idea of open minded means agreeing with a "liberal" party platform. (misusing the term "anti-immigrant" for people who support legal immigration shows a huge lack of maturity, as it sounds like they aren't truly listening to their opposition. i also think the right to bare arms is important, and that does not make me a "gun nut" or violent.)

I hate needing to answer the phone while I'm in the bathroom:censored:

I hate...

- fags. Not gays but those obscenely over the top I'm-gonna-shove-my-homosexuality-down-your-fucking-throat types.
- bourgeoisie.
- Australia. Seriously fuck Australia.
- New England.
- Self-deceptive people.
- Reality television.
- Most television.
- AM radio.
- Star Trek: Deep Space 9.
- Sobriety.
- People with zero capacity to understand the vapidity of contemporary music.
- millions of other things.

I hate...

...slow sunday drivers
...to sweat
...ignorant people
..."over the top" flamboyant annoying gay guys
...rude people
...Dealmaker Drum Honda...well, just about all Watertown Dealerships
...not being able to think of anything else that I hate...

I hate;

1. People that think that since I love shemales, I'm gay. Get a clue will ya.

2. People that mistreat people, including spouses and children. I especially hate child molesters

3. Politicians. The only agenda they are after is their own. No exceptions.

Better stop here, I'll be here all night. LOL

I hate...
- slow drivers
- stupid people
- country/rap/R&B music
- needless bureaucracy
- not being a shemale
- hyper-happy people
- commercials
- hot, humid weather
- mosquitoes & fire ants
- the bible-belt mentality
- being married to someone I have nothing in common with

Right-wingers, narrow minds (redundant, sorry), waiting in line and socalled str8 folks with an attitude...

Tracy, you hard core republican... you write among the things you hate "not being a shemale". Can you elaborate a little bit on that? Do you mean what I sense you mean?

H

"narrow minds" is only "right wingers"?

That in and of itself is narrow minded, binary us vs them, partisan politics.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/wilson-jl...n-james29.html

And those on the left are so tolerant, forgiving, and understanding. Just ask anyone that's lived under Stalinism, communism, communist China, Pol Pot etc. etc. etc.

I'm not sure what you think I mean? For one thing, I am not a hard core republican. They are actually typically associated with the Christian right. i.e. the Bible-belt mentality people, which I have said that I hate. How many atheist hard core republicans have you heard of? I think you confuse anti-socialism with hard core republican. In the past 8 years I have seen supporters of the democrat party revise history, and either lie through their teeth, or have no grasp of the facts.

I think the political parties in the US are confused (I know, big surprise). Someone who is a devout christian, as many republicans claim to be, would seem to me to be in favor of socialism and welfare. i.e. love your neighbor as yourself. There are many examples of Jesus spreading the wealth. So that doesn't make sense to me.

An atheist would typically be a democrat. But republican's fiscal conservatism and capitalism want government to stay out of the way and let economic competition drive the market. Survival of the fittest. This is most like darwinism, which atheists understand.

I align my self with whatever policies from whatever party make sense.

As for being a shemale, I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body. If I were a woman with a cock (a shemale) I could be what I find most attractive, and still make love to my lover.

Funny how Americans always bring up communism as the only alternative to right wing republican policies... I'm far from being a socialist, just for the record. I just fail to see the decency and compassion in the right wing policies that are only geared to make the wealthy wealthier by draining the middle class and imposing narrow minded rules of socalled "morale" and double standards.

Regarding your trans-lesbianism, as I understand it, what is the problem? I know several transsexual women who gender-identify as women but whose sexual orientation is toward women. It is important to separate gender-identification from sexual orientation.

Surely, there may not be as many women out there attracted to a shemale as one could hope for, but still...

You call yourself "transvestite", so I guess I'm just a bit confused of where you are... maybe none of my business anyway. But I sure wish for you that you can find the right balance that can make you happy as a person.

Best wishes!

H

i hate birthday.. lol
i hate lie and liar..
i hate pervy old men...

It isn't the only alternative. But lately, democratic candidates are becoming more and more socialist. Unfortunately, republicans are also becoming less and less conservative.

They aren't making the wealthy wealthier. They just aren't taking as much of the wealthy's money as the left would like. There is a critical difference there. I don't see anything in this country that's keeping someone in the middle class from making a buck. Anyway, I think a flat tax rate would be perfectly fair. Taxing the wealthy more just because they have plenty to get by with is wealth redistribution. That's not what you support is it?

I never said there was a problem with trans-lesbianism. I would just prefer to be a shemale. But social pressures, not political pressures, keep me from doing it. For me at least, it's something I can live with. Crossdressing provides a release.

I hate people who start hate threads!:p

I also hate being damp. Y'know not full on wet but just kinda wet. It makes your clothes feel all weird and stick to you in weird ways. Fuck being damp.

I hate that i just came across this site. n that i didnt meet all u sexy pplz earlier.
I hate not knowing a "shemale" in person
I hate chevy
and most of all i hate being at work horny and no1 to take care of it. lol

i don't "hate" many things.. actually i dont think i hate anything.

i do, however, dislike many things. i.e pet peeves

-conservatives
-religious people who have a dark side (im fine with honest religious people though. in fact, i encourage it)
-people who hate themselves
-people who have plastic surgery (be yourself, there is nothing more beutiful!)
-dumb little religions like satanism, vampirism, ect.. (i am not religious by any means, but i wouldnt mind finding a spiritual side one day)
-racist people
-fidel castro (is that foo dead yet?)
-CHE GUEVARRA (definately hate that guy, and the ignorant ideal he's created)
-people who drive unnecesarily fast and cut me off, only to arrive at the same time at a red light.
-not having a girlfriend (tgirl or ggirl)
-people who are uncomfortable with their skin color, or ethnicity/race

now, i guess these statements are a bit hypocritical because im on a forum where we admire men who have undergone a transformation to become the closest thing to a female, which is shemale, but you know what, fuck you. haha just kidding. honestly i have no defense argument for this, so i'll just shut up.

Less and less conservative? Tell that to your lovers in the current administration... they are as nastily conservative and anti-progress as anyone ever... and a shit-load of good that did your patriotic country... Gott im Himmel... and trust me, there's NOTHING socialist about your democrats in that country of yours.

Of course I believe in wealth redistribution, are you kidding? What do you want? Jungle law? A laisse-faire system? Screw the poor! Screw the midgets! Screw the ladyboys... screw democracy? You are a true right-winger.


Good to know - transvestism, transsexuality or what ever is the term is, hopefully, to be enjoyed - in spite of societal (and in your country so obviously also political) antagonism.

Honey bunny, wake up, please! I realize you love George Bush and his policies - you probably think that he made your country a lot better (I'm sure you couldn't care less about the rest of the world, as a true American republican). If you could only broaden your mind set a bit and look beyond the romantic dream of the New Patriotism as defined by your current administration... if you could only travel abroad and find out how America currently appears from outside, well then maybe you could see my point.

But this is exactly why the election of the American president is too important a task to leave solely to Americans :-)

Kisses!

H

chris moyles what a fucking wankstain

Yeah less conservative. How else would you explain that $700 billion bailout package? OMFG! There have been many other acts of big government before, but that one takes the cake.

There are varying degrees of socialism, and no doubt you can be more socialist. But the democrats are trying to protect social security (obviously a socialist program) even though there's no way it can possibly last without dumping a shitload of money into it. They want to tax the rich more than their fair share. No brainer on that one. And they have also initiated programs to provide loans to those who frankly are not able to repay them. Which is why we may be forced to do the $700 billion bailout. Hillary Clinton's health care proposal was socialized medicine, and thankfully never passed. And Obama's quote "If I am sitting pretty, and you got a waitress who is making minimum wage plus tips, and I can afford it and she can't, what's the big deal to say I'm going to pay a little more? That's neighborlyness." Of course, there's nothing wrong with tipping your waitress, but what he's really talking about is forcing this type of income redistribution and making it law.

That's all fine and noble until you see what it creates, which is laziness. You have people who start thinking, why bother trying to get a good job when all those suckers who worked their way into riches will just have to give me their money anyway? The rich start to think, what's the point in working harder? You see that a lot here where people have bullshit jobs and pop out baby after baby for the child tax credit. Now you've got a growing portion of the population who was raised thinking that laziness pays off. Capitalism does work fairly. It rewards those who work hard and strengthens the economy. Anybody, except for those who are truly mentally or physically disabled, can improve themselves and make a buck in this country. And for the mentally or physically disabled, yeah, help them out. But that does not include the 36 million blacks and 11 million illegal aliens in this country, at least not ALL of them. Go on and call me racist, but I would say someone who says blacks are not able to work as hard as the rest of the population is a racist. And yes there should be anti-discrimination laws, but not reverse discrimination laws like affirmative action. Racism is a bad thing, but what people outside this country do not realize is that anti-racism is often taken to an extreme here as well. This results in people being given jobs they are not qualified for, up to and including president of the united states. How many times have you heard people say it's about time we have a black man as president, without noting Obama is the least qualified presidential candidate in 100 years. Poor people in a strong economy are much better off than poor people in a weak economy.

Like everyone else, you assume because I don't like the BS the democrats spew that I am a George Bush disciple. Actually I can't wait for him to leave before he does more damage. He's done a few good things, the rest I'm adamantly opposed to. Unfortunately McCain seems to be quite similar in many areas. But like Bush, he's not as bad as the democrats would be.

I would love to travel to other countries, and I should honestly make a real point to do that. I'm quite aware that few like the way this country is run. But what I am not clear on is how that hurts other countries? Please enlighten me?

HA! Never :kiss:

I hate dishonesty, thiefs and deceivers. People who think they have a right to fuck up your life you've worked hard for by only doing good things.

While I agree I don't like far left ideologies like socialism and communism, acting like the status quo with the economy is AOK is equal bullshit from certain conservative minds.

Rising unemployment, lay offs and all time high foreclosures. You may have the problem of promoting laziness with things like communism (because, being honest, what would truly motivate a doctor if he made as much as a janitor?), but with our current system of capitalism, the greedy as fuck "higher ups" have absolutely NO empathy for people who are lower to middle class. They are not held accountable. Keep raising prices for fucking everything. Push the envelope. Why not? Not hurting their wallets any.


The job market isn't what it used to be. What about people who want to be artists or photographers or authors/journalists? It's not easy to get your "foot in the door" to be poised to make a decent living in these fields. Hence why many have primary jobs and do what they actually want on the side, hoping their REAL interests will pay off with employment opportunities.

Thing is, making it by on a "joe job" as a primary is increasingly NOT as easy as it once was, making some feel pressured to hurry up and choose a "lucrative" field or degree, even if it is something they do not care for at all. Which DRAINS you., if you are not the type of person who can do that. Leaving you as a bitter husk/zombie, just surviving more than living.

A "type A" personality ("workaholic"/conservative/etc psychological terms) might not see the problem with this system. Type B personalities (creative, imaginative, and philosophical) will, more often. If I didn't word that right, sue me. I'm dog tired.

This is funny because I just happen to be thinking of this very thing the today and now I can vent.

I HATE MONEY!!!

I hate:

- having it (because I'm not sure what the right thing to do with it is, everyone has a frigging opinion)
- chasing it (because I lose sight of what's really important)
- spending it (because I feel guilty that I should have done something else with it)
- touching it (it's filthy)
- worrying about it (because when you're getting it, you wonder when it's going to stop and when it stops, you wonder when it's going to start again)
- looking at it (Canadian money is goofy looking)
- wishing I had more (because my fucking neighbour lives in a $7 Million house and drives a Porsche and that's not right... he's a shithead)
- wishing I had less (because people are always asking for it... what am I, a bank machine?)
But... and this is the big one... I hate to love it because after everything I just said, it makes me a hypocrite.

At least our money, like many other currencies in the world, has colour whereas you just have slightly different shades of green.

Actually I am Canadian and I agree that it is colourful (note that I spelled "colourful" the proper way) and American money is bland as hell although they do have new currency coming out with a little colour in it. But come on... Snowy Owls and Geese. At least there's hockey on the five right?

I wish I had LoverOfShemale's problem with too much money lol. And I want your neighbors Porsche too. I've got an old mustang that's about to dissolve into dust. Fortunately I learned how to fix the A/C :cool: Otherwise, it would be outta here. I could probably get a decent car, but I'm saving money to build a plane.

Whoops, my face is red. I should have looked in the top right corner for your info.

No prob Ila... To be honest, I edited my profile after your comment when I realized that I didn't have my location posted so all is good in the end.

I HATE thongs, butt floss, what ever their called!! Please everyone, stop the thong thing! Ok, Please...

I just wanted to add to the debate between hankhavelock and traceycoxx, the socialism going on in America only in miniscule ways is it redistributing wealth to the poor from the rich and middle class. Almost all governments have a social welfare system to care for the old and needy. However the real distribution of wealth, that is what truly makes America socialist, is the redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy. What I mean by that is examples of things like the tax brackets where by percentage middle class and lower pay more per income than the rich. Also the recent $700 billion wall street bailout has been said by many to be such an example of this. The claim being that the goivernment will give this money to "the rich" ,whoever they are I do not know because it never has been clearly spelled out, and then the American people will have to end up paying for it in taxes. And the way the tax system is set up the people who do have a hold of this money aren't the ones that have the highest tax burden. So basically what I was trying to say is that even though welfare can be argued as socialism which in a simple sense it is, it isnt what truly makes America a socialist nation.

I also would like to add in that I was confused as to where the communism thing came in because when I read Traceycoxx first responce she didnt mention communism at all, and then the next response from hankhavelock the first thing said was "Funny how Americans always bring up communism as the only alternative to right wing republican policies." If debating socialism it is probably best not to get it confused with communism and not to blindly call them one in the same.

Put me down also for: I hate dumb people.

I hate people in general. If you piss me off, I'll run you down in my car!

I hate girls who look after themselves yet they neglect their feet :(
I also hate people who think because I run bars that I must be uneducated
I hate people who have no manners.
Worst of all I hate narrowminded people the most. Open your eyes! there is so much to see and do out there.

The reason for the $700 billion bailout is because Carter started the Community Reinvestment Act, which forces Fannie & Freddy to make loans to minorities, regardless of whether they are able to pay it back. This was supercharged during Clinton's administration. Financial institutions began getting rated by how many loans they gave to minorities. A higher rating meant more business for them. Obviously this kind of BS can't go on forever, and Fanny & Freddy were in jeopardy of folding as well as many financial institutions. The $700 billion is to keep these companies from going under. Because if they can't make loans, our economy comes to a halt. So the reason we have to do something so socialistic like grant the treasury control over this huge amount of money, and take over these financial institutions is because socialistic practices created this huge mess in the first place. And these institutions make up half of the lending companies in the US. So doing nothing is not an option.

That we have to do this at all really pisses me off. But I want to know what they're going to do to fix this so it doesn't happen again? Are they going to tell these companies to go back to making good business decisions with these loans? Or are they going to continue to make bad loans to these people? If they do continue to make bad loans to minorities, then effectively, the government is providing housing to the poor at the rest of the country's expense. If that's not welfare redistribution and socialism on a grand scale, then I don't know what is.

haha nice, pretty much my answer.

fuck you too you redneck piece of shit. go get shanked in prison you white trash kkk wannabe shitlicker

i hate being single
i hate my country being over run by arabs indians and muslims
i hate stupid people
i hate living in a corrupt world

Commercial music.

I hate haters:confused:

- Contemporary Media in general (AKA Brainwash sessions or B.S).

- The Film industry, especially new movies, WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT !!

- The Music industry, love the music but hate the industry.

- Modern retarded politicians.

- The way you work hard for something, just for some stupid shithead to come along and fuck everything up.

- Ungrateful little shits.

More annoying stuff later.

almost everything

Sorry, I almost forgot :

- The 90s (of course).

the time between the alarm clock going off and my getting into work, its never that bad once you get started.
hangovers
working all week and still being skint out at the end of it
people who only like one genre of music
people who'v never done a days work but still moan about "imigrants taking all our jobs"
morisey, and the smith's by proxy
saturday night prime time TV ie xfactor, pop stars, strictly come dancing, dancing on ice, maria, etc
bad films being made from good computer games, and bad computer games being made from good filims
glasgow rangers
orange men

So what colour of men do you like. Or do you mean you don't like orangemen?

these are the orange men of which i speak. anyone else who likes spending their spare time getting dressed up like this and marching i hold in equal contempt

You are missing the point. You made a spelling mistake. The way you put it down, you hate men that are the colour orange. If you don't like those that belong to the Orange Lodge then you should say that you hate orangemen.

So what are your feelings about the Knights of Columbus?

forgive my spelling mistake, i've always been shit at spelling and gramer. the nights of columbus, i've heard off them but i actualy don't know anything about them.

No harm done.

The Knights of Columbus are Catholic and they too like to dress up although I can't say whether or not they go marching around in the same manner as the Orangemen.

well i dont know anything about them so i wont say i hate them but judging by what litle i do know, ie waht you just told me. their probabbly knob heads to. but aswell as the orange order their's a group called the ancient order of hibernians who are just like the orange order but catholic i think they are dickheads to, they aren't very popular at all. although in their favour i will say this, at least they don't insist trying to marching through areas where no one wants them, so i hate them slightly less than i do the orange order.

Yes, I could never understand why the Orangemen were so provocative in their marches in Ulster. There was absolutely no need to go marching through the Catholic areas.

its beacause for years catholics where second class citizens, and the march's where basicaly a way expressing this. and alot of the orangemen now still concider catholics second class citizens. so when they say they just want to follow their traditonal route, really what they mean is, Fuck you, we'll march where we want. you have no right to try and stop us.

A few of many.....

The ladyboy69 forums :frown:

??? any particular reason?

Okay, like BlueRaven88 above, I'll bite.

What exactly do you hate about the Labyboy69 forums?

I think it's telling that trans*women don't post there except to advertise... that should give a clue as to the atmosphere. The general tone of the conversations are examples of everything I write about on my blog about shitty men.

For example, they call the walk from a Thai LB bar to their hotel "the walk of shame" and advise each other to have the girl walk ahead of them/behind them (must make her feel swell). They talk about finding non-bar LBs and then treating them with the same level of respect they show for the P4P gals (none) and wonder why LBs act "crazy" when they see them later.

They call their LBs dudes, blokes, etc.. and still go to the greatest lengths to maintain their heterosexuality. They diss gals for having ANY "mannish" feature, are hyper critical of the gals in the scene and are just plain wanks.

I have no doubt that guys from here frequent there, but any group that would give our Hank crap for calling them out on the ill-informed crap they believe to be LB gospel can't be at all good. *shrug*

I honestly have nothing positive to say about it. Makes me appreciate this place more.. seriously.

Bionca,
well said and seems to be so true.
Thanks for saying it. You are a beautiful person, inside and out.:respect:

Exactly my thoughts Fran. You said it much better than I could have though.
:respect: for both you and Bionca.

I hate hatemongers, narrow-minded people, those who need to label anyone they come across. Hypocrits, people who want to impose their standards or ideas on others. I hate dishonest or mean people.

- Sequels.

going to the bank link and finding out i have no money in my account.
that feeling you get after a heavy night out when you can't remember getting home, and you think "oh shit what did i do"
five o clcok on a friday when know you have to work the saturday
when my work boots are still a bit wet when i put them on in the morning
simon cowell

Untill today I think I hadn't been at LB-69 for three months. I'd almost forgotten it... I too find this forum much better and wider in its approach and content - created solely by the posting and debating users, of course. Much, much better!

LB-69 is primarily a forum connected with a porn-site, and the topic is overwhelmingly all about prostitution. And for some, I guess, that's as far as they will ever get in their attraction to trans-women.

Peace be upon them - they'll never learn or realize the deeper aspects anyways... they have to rush back to their little cisgendered wives once the "fun" is over...

But a forum is, inevitably, what the content-creators make it to be. Here we seem to be having two completely separate discussions going on. One like on LB-69 (though the users here appear to be less "experienced" than the ol'-timer Thailand-tourists at LB-69). Another with a much more (to me, at least) interesting and luckily ongoing debate about being both trans-woman and trans-lover.

We have even managed to have a non-trans debate going on in another thread, and I can honestly say that I have never really found a forum where the tone is so relaxed and nice even though we may disagree on certain points.

So I too like this forum a lot.

"Chocolate News" with David Alan Grier. Very black nationalist oriented show. One segment of the show he seemed to be berating "white America" for not voting for Obama, speaking to the portions of "white America" didn't want to vote him because he's black. He failed to point any fingers in the other direction, though.

Voting FOR Obama only because he is black, (which he seemed to imply) is just as ignorant or racist as voting AGAINST him for being black (which he berated people for). It should have been about the issues, with race being a non factor.

I think racial nationalism in general is retarded, but could you imagine a white nationalist version of this? There would be riots. I don't mind jokes about "white" people. I can laugh at myself with no problem.

I mind when there is bitching and moaning when it's reversed even a quarter in the other direction.

I don't think black nationalism is any more "progressive" than white nationalism. Difference is you'll find fewer "progressive" white people who follow white nationalist politics.

Both groups often support separatism and extreme views, whether it's calling non white races "mud races" and thinking they are superior or whether it's exaggerating "white privilege" and blaming everything on white people.

While there are still racial issues to be fought, the fact that we have a black president should be an indicator of how far we have come. A lot of what is complained about now is class, NOT race issues, as there are more successful black people now than ever in the nation and there are many brokeass white folk.

I hate :
Narrow minded people
Fakes
Religious extremists (of whatever conviction)
Racists
People who think they have a monopoly on the truth
My untrustworthy bladder control

I hate that Proposition 8 passed. It's a sad day when hate and intolerance win over equality.

Well, there's a fascinating fact about Proposition 8 that has now emerged.
Ironically, Obama winning the election is what CAUSED Prop 8 to pass.

For those unaware of what Proposition 8 even is, just a quick explanation. On election day, here in California we got to vote on whether same-sex marriages should be allowed OR whether the State Constitution should be amended to legally ban them. Prop 8 was created by those who favor a "traditional family" viewpoint. So if you voted "Yes" on Prop 8, it meant you were in favor of marriage being ONLY between a man and a woman. And if you voted "No", then you were in favor of same-sex marriages being allowed.

And, in an election shocker given how Liberal California is thought to be (given that California has such a major pro-gay city like San Francisco or there is Hollywood, which is also very influential and pro-gay), Prop 8 ended up passing. Californians gave the thumbs DOWN to same-sex marriage and voted to make them illegal now.

So, what does this have to do with Obama?
Well, therein lies the irony...

Obama's campaign brought out a total flood of minorities to vote for him. Something like 94% of the Black community voted for him, and he won the Latino/Hispanic vote too. HOWEVER when those same minorities got to the voting booth, they overwhelmingly voted FOR Proposition 8. In fact, Blacks voted by a whopping margin of 75% or so against same-sex marriage.

So, ironically the very same minorities who flooded out in massive numbers to vote for Obama...who felt his election would be a sign of greater tolerance in America...turned right around and gave the finger to the Gay community, who felt those same minority groups would actually be their biggest supporters. And sure enough it was the vote of the minority groups that tipped the balance on Prop 8. In other words, if they hadn't shown up in such numbers to vote for Obama, then ironically Prop 8 would not have passed and same-sex marriage would have remained legal in California.

Next up: some really messy court battles!

According to the news reports that I have heard and read the legality of the marriages of a lot of gays are now in question. Would this be the messy court battles that you are alluding to?

CreativeMind, you read my mind, lol.

I was just going to comment and write the EXACT same thing you had written. I didn't ever believe Obama was going to be this sort of messiah for the GLBT. He masqueraded around as progressive and liberal, but his following is mostly socially moderate.

Although, we didn't really have any other options, did we?

That shouldn't be the issue because in the United States we prohibit ex-post facto laws. Meaning that any gay marriages that happened before this prop passed will still be honored.

The court cases that is being talked about is that civil rights groups are filing lawsuits to overturn the proposition with the argument that amending the constitution this way goes against the equal protection clause of the constitution. Which these groups are claiming is more than an amendment but a total revision of the interpretation of the constitution.

I live in a really conservative part of Orange County California and it was just absolutely depressing to see the hysteria over Yes on 8 over here. There were frequent rallies at major intersections with almost all Yes on 8 and there was an endless supply of there stupid yellow and blue signs, some making arrogant claims such as "Yes on 8 = Free Speech." Everyday reminding me that people out there are ready to hate you for any difference you might have.

Well, Ila, that's part of what I was referring to, and then ocinteeni posted a great answer which is correct. The courts are expected to rule that anyone who got married before Prop 8 passed should still have their marriages honored since the rule in law is that you can't legally grant a "right" to someone and then turn right around and take it away from them. But basically, here's where things stand...

Some of the people who backed Prop 8 -- the more moderate faction -- are willing to say: "Okay, we won and it's law now. But to be fair over a very emotional issue, we're willing to let the marriages that already took place stand. We just want it understood that from now on there will be no more marriages. So, those of you who got it done, congrats. The rest of you, forget it."

Meanwhile, others that backed Prop 8 -- the real hard liners -- are arguing that the whole POINT of Prop 8 is that the California Supreme Court was wrong from the very beginning. That the Court over-reached when it legislated from the bench and it ruled that same-sex marriages should now be legal. So, these hard liners have an even more aggressive view: IF Prop 8 is now the law...and IF it's now the will of the people by vote...and IF the court was wrong to begin with...then why shouldn't all of the marriages be revoked? Why should the state recognize any of them since those wedding licenses were issued on debatable legal ground to begin with?

And finally, there's the Gay community itself which is out staging large and emotional protests. Right now, they've targeted Mormon Temples as rallying points and are protesting outside them (since the Mormon Church was one of the biggest financial supporters of Prop 8). But now the more vocal activists want to expand those protests and target Catholic and Protestant churches too. They also want to target businesses and even the homes of private citizens who made donations. Their opinion is IF you backed Prop 8, then you deserve to be exposed or publicly humiliated and you deserve to have protesters outside your home or business -- all of which could turn this even angrier and uglier.

And last but not least, some -- such as Melissa Etheridge, who made the news just yesterday over this -- are out advocating that the Gay community should refuse to pay any taxes. After all, why give the government any of your money if it's going to treat you like a second class citizen? And since the economy is on such shaky grounds and since California in particular is SO broke that its actually bankrupt, they want to make their point where it will hurt the most -- in State's pocketbook. Although frankly, that's a no-win stance since Higher Courts already have a long, long, LONG track record of setting down legal rulings that as an American citizen you have every right to protest, but you still HAVE to pay your taxes no matter what.

And yes, this is the OTHER part of what I meant by "messy court battles." Those who supported same-sex marriage...who are FURIOUS that Prop 8 passed...now view this as an outright battle to the death. They see this as the true Civil Rights battle of the 21st century. So, regardless of state court rulings or popular votes or whatever, they want to find some way...any way...to get this heard before the Supreme Court (in Washington). Their view: this all boils down to basic human rights. It all comes down to the right for every person to have a wedding ceremony and marry the person you love, regardless of your sexual orientation.

Except that's where it gets even more tangle now. And sorry about babbling on here, but since this is a global forum, this explanation is for those who live outside the United States...

Basically, the Gay community is still screwed because most people think America is a democracy. But it's not. And even most Americans believe that you can take any case all the way up to the Supreme Court to have your day in court, to get your case heard. But you can't. The truth is America is NOT a democracy. Legally, the United States is a REPUBLIC. And what that means is each and every state...all 50 of them...actually have legal rights to self-determination that supersedes Federal law out of Washington, DC. And in this case, the Supreme Court (in Washington) actually does NOT have the authority to override the will and the vote of the California people for passing Prop 8. The Supreme Court can NOT overrule Californians for choosing to amend their own State Constitution.

As for what ocinteeni described about her own area (Orange County) that's the other weird thing that's going on in California now. It's amazing to see all these different pocket areas where people have suddenly popped up and said: "Sorry, I can't go along with this. I think I'm a nice person. I don't think I'm a bigot. But I just can't accept same-sex marriage. I don't see it as a civil rights issue. Marriage as a RELIGIOUS concept and government has no right to legislate religion."

And that's where support for same-sex marriage (even in a state as Liberal as California) starts to crumble. As I noted before, the thing that shocked the Gay community on Election Day was that 70-75% of the African-American community...as well as a majority of the Latino/Hispanic community...both of whom turned out in HUGE numbers to support Obama...turned right around and voted FOR Prop 8. And in all the exit polls, that's just what they said: this wasn't a civil rights issue, it was a religious one. So, in a weird plot twist that no one saw coming, the ONE group that the Gay community thought it could count on the most (namey African-Americans given what they went through historically to achieve equality) is now one of their BIGGEST road blocks. Overwhelmingly Black and Hispanic voters, which are also the two largest growing voting blocks in California, said "no" to same-sex marriage based on their more traditional religious beliefs.

So, now things are getting even MORE heated here, as I said before, as the Gay community starts to target churches for their protest rallies. And that's because the Election Day polls revealed another interesting thing: basically, people believe that even IF same-sex marriage was allowed, a church should still have the right to turn down a same-sex couple's request to be married there. In other words, people overwhelmingly feel that a church's congregation should still get the final say on "what" happens at their own church. They should still get to say: "Fine, you can get married. But WE get to decide whether or not you do it in OUR church."

And that's a whole other wacky thing that's going on. I actually have neighbors and friends that are gay who -- yes, believe it or not -- voted for Prop 8. Why? Because aside from being Gay, they're also deeply religious and that was ultimately their final view, too. Namely, they felt that Gay activists should NOT be able to dictate to their churches what ceremonies should be held on their church's property. In the end, they voted to protect their churches and voted against their fellow gays.

So now, the whole thing is just one giant mess. Everyone is arguing from a different perspective and Prop 8 which was designed to simplify things ("Marriage is a man and a woman. Boom! We're done! Next topic!") has only created all sorts of new emotional rifts and even pitted people who thought they would be allies against each another. So, like I said before, this is going to become a giant series of court battles now, with lots of yelling and screaming, I'm sure...

Orgasm headaches. What the fuck is that for?

Hating those things are somewhat contradictory. I would argue some one who makes a comment like "i hate my country being over run by arabs indians and muslims" is stupid and you claim to hate stupid people, so it seems like you hate yourself. Don't let yourself be miserable over hatred towards some racial or religious group, you're better than that, every person on this earth is better than that.

to Creative Mind, first just want to clear things up because you referred to me as a her, I'm a guy. Secondly, I would argue that a Federal supreme court law would override state legislation, if I remember correctly there were federal level supreme court rulings that overturned state legislation in regards to the black civil rights movements when blacks had the right to vote essentially taken away from them again after the 13th amendment was passed. Also in the time period of Jim Crow Laws where the idea was "seperate but equal," I beleive supreme court rulings ultimately changed the legality of those particular state legislations.

Hello again, Ocinteeni!
And my big apologies for the mistaken reference!
I was typing fast and didn't even catch that, so sorry again....

As for this question that you're bringing up -- namely, who technically outranks who and whose legal judgment supersedes who -- you're basically right BECAUSE of the example you're citing. In short, the Supreme Court (in Washington) can't step in and overrule the California State Supreme Court or the toss out the will of the California voters IF this is perceived as state ballot measure. IF this is seen as an issue that the people of the state should have every right to self-determine for themselves.

On the other hand, the Supreme Court could step in IF the case was truly framed...and IF the Supreme Court agreed to hear it...AS an actual civil rights issue. Much like you said, THAT is something you could take all the way to the top IF the Supreme Court bought into the argument that same-sex marriage is somehow, in some way, analogous to something like the Black civil rights movement.

But that's the big question here. As I pointed out in my post, those in the gay community certainly feel that way. And yet the reason that Prop 8 won in California...and similar amendments won in other states on Election Day by even WIDER margins of support...is because many people don't feel this is a civil rights issue. Polls show that a majority of Americans feel that so long as same-sex couples have civil unions readily available to them, they have no right to bitch. Simply because a civil union will ultiimately safeguard and protect their legal rights.

In other words, as you often hear this phrased, same-sex couples can be together...they can get married...they just can't use the WORD "married" in describing themselves. Which to many makes the whole debate seem rather silly at times -- well, that is until people from either side start whipping out their long list of reasons why that one simple word, marriage, carries SO much weight and importance.

To those in the gay community, "marriage" signifies a more clearly defined legal status and ensures them full-on rights. And it gives them a greater emotional satisfaction because now they feel as though their relationship is a validated part of society. On the other hand, those against same-sex marriage argue that civil unions DO give same-sex couples the same legal rights as a married couple, so what are we fighting about? Stop bitching about the word "marriage" and move on. They argue that even as a word "marriage" is based on religion, so that takes it out of the legal arena. Or taking this a step further, they argue it's not right for the Vatican and the Catholic Church to say "Same-sex marriage is wrong. We don't allow this in our church. This goes against the very principles that makes us Catholics" only to have the U.S. government step in and say "Well, we've decided that we're going to now TELL YOU how you have to run your churches and THIS is what you'll have to believe in from now on."

So like I said, it ALL comes down to the million dollar question: Do you think same-sex marriage is a civil rights issue...or do you think it's splitting hairs over a word, that the same legal rights are already available in a civil union, at which point this really is a religious debate or a sexual orientation debate which the government has no business sticking its nose into?

And that's why each side is now desperately fighting to "frame" the entire argument in a certain way. Because whoever wins THAT fight will ultimately determine WHICH court (State vs. Federal) gets to hear these issues and rule on them...

Ocinteeni provided a very good answer to my initial question. I was sure that those that had been legally married couldn't have their marriages annulled. Yesterday though I read a news item, in my newsparer, in which Ellen Degeneres was commenting on the situation. I think the news item came from the AP, but maybe not (I threw away the paper so I can no longer confirm the source). The news item basically stated that because of Prop 8 her marriage has been annulled. Unfortunately it was really only half a story in that it didn't give any details on why her marriage would be annulled. It also only specifically mentioned her marriage. The media isn't helping to clarify anything in this situation. It is going to be very interesting to see how all of this plays out and as you have mentioned CreativeMind I'm sure there will be some very messy court battles. The big winners in all of this will be the lawyers making money from all the court battles.

I personally beleive it will be shown that civil unions are not equal to marriage. And I beleive it is more than just the gay community wanting to be accepted. I can't say this with certainty but I beleive civil unions can not cross state lines, meaning if a gay couple were to get a civil union in california if they go to another state which doesn't have civil unions they would not be guaranteed the same rights. The only way to get the full rights everywhere is to be married which I believe is protected on a federal level.

I also heard those same arguments of "well they can have civil unions so it's the same thing but they just cant use the word marriage." But the thing is the government decided to give people these rights using that particular word, "marriage." So the gay community unfortunately has to use that vocabulary in legislation to gain full rights in this country, which is what is making the conservative religious right so angry. If the government decided to call it "salty balls" I'm sure the gay community would be going about getting their rights through that vocabulary, so I truly beleive it isn't just a matter of wanting the recognition of society and being accepted. That should come secondary, they simply just don't want to be second class citizens with second class rights.

Back to the theme of this thread.

I hate winter. More specifically I hate snow. I hate shovelling it, driving in it, watching it fall, walking in it. I hate blowing snow and blizzards. I hate anything to do with snow. I also hate freezing rain and ice on the roads.

Strangely enough I don't mind the cold. It can be -40 degrees and it doesn't bother me. Now if we could only have winter without the snow I'd be happy.

Actually, you have the right idea -- but reversed. Generally speaking, a "marriage" is viewed as a religious bonding, but a "marriage" does NOT necessarily have to be respected or honored by a state. For example (as we saw in the news a while back), you could have a group of people who are part of a wacky religious compound cult...they feel they are a "legitimate" religion since in America they have every right to practice whatever they want (hey, you can worship a tiki doll on your shelf and it's technically your own religion)...

...And yet that same cult could say they believe 50-year old guys should marry 16-year old girls to have kids and keep the cult clan going. So, in an instance like that, the cult can go ahead and perform their own "religious" ceremony in their own "church" -- and thus in their eyes they see it as a valid "marriage." However, the BIG question is: did the state recognize that church as a valid religious entity to begin with? Also, laws vary from state to state regarding the age of consent and that too could negate the marriage. Not to mention, once you crossed state lines with your underage teenage cult bride, not only would the marriage NOT be recognized, but given the age of the girl the police might arrest you.

On the other hand...a civil union, as defined by law, is performed by a state-recognized and state-sanctioned appointee. Thus, in the eyes of the government, it is fully legal, binding, and transferable across state lines. Basically, as someone noted on a legal web site: States are free to pass whatever laws they want to enforce upon their own state as long as it is Constitutional and not in violation of pre-existing Federal law. However, it has always been the law that IF a state has no law regarding a particular activity (for example gay marriage) then it will legally recognize the legitimacy of the other state's law.

Long story short, Article V1 of the United States Constitution -- which is commonly known as the "Full Faith and Credit Clause" -- addresses the fact that states within the United States have to respect "the public acts, records, and judicial rulings" of other states. In other words, a civil union -- since it was performed by an appointed state or municipal official -- would actually be more legally recognized across state lines than a marriage.

In fact, here's another example of how wacky and tangled this gets. In Rhode Island, the State Supreme Court ruled that the state's family court had an all-new problem. They lacked the authority to grant a divorce for same-sex couples. Why? Because Rhode Island doesn't recognize same-sex marriages to begin with. As a result, that left a same-sex couple seeking a divorce without any options UNLESS unless they actually packed their bags and moved back to neighboring Massachusetts where they got married to begin with.

To be honest, perhaps it seems as if I misspoke before, so let me clarify something. The Gay community wants to use the word "marriage" not just for social acceptance, but also for some very real legal reasons. That's because much like Rhode Island realized it had a funky loophole on its hands and suddenly found themselves saying: "Huh, what do you know? We never thought about that!" you have the same thing happening with all sorts of other issues, across the board and state to state. For example, in one of the most commonly cited things, you could be a same-sex couple that is united in a civil union, but then you get a new job and suddenly discover that your health insurance has forms that specifically use the word "marriage" -- which means that now you're in a legal bind where the heath provider won't give your significant other coverage because they don't technically view them as a legal "spouse." It's things like that...the way that we define certain terms on the ledgers...that has made this such a contentious issue.

Also, there's a whole other tangent we haven't even gotten into, where the Gay community wants same-sex marriage defined as a civil rights issue because then by law they could force any church where they dreamed of exchanging their vows into letting them use that property, otherwise they could sue for a violation of civil rights. So, there's that as well. That goes back to something I mentioned in my other post, where a section of the Gay community voted FOR Prop 8 because they felt they were actually protecting the rights of their own local parishes.

And again, as a term, "marriage" can be a wacky thing. For example, in Texas if you live with someone and (1) literally just SAY that you're married (I mean simply turn to one another and say "Yep, we're married!") and then (2) go out amongst your friends and simply SAY "Yep! She's my husband/wife!" and then finally (3) file a joint tax return, then congratulations -- without ever going through a church ceremony OR going to town hall for a civil union, you're now married. You can now claim to be "common law spouses" and ask the state to mail you a marriage certificate.

So, the whole thing is a legal web all it's own, and I didn't mean to make light of what the Gay community is fighting for in my other post, ocinteeni. To that end you're right and I'm sorry if it seemed that I misspoke. This isn't ONLY about social recognition. The whole debate of marriage, same-sex marriage, and civil unions clearly has a crap load of legal arguments that still need to be ironed out and settled...

hate stupid people and Sony

To love is better than to hate!

At the moment this computer, the second time it's crashed this morning.. :censored:

As for the rest! Pretty much the same as everyone else I should imagine.

Racists
Bigots
Ignorance/rudeness
Self importance
Bullying
Z-List celebs who think the world owes them a living
Tabloid newspapers
Political spin (exactly how thick do they think we are!)

Phew!! There was something cathartic about writing that.. :D

ohh..but why hate when you can LOVE! :innocent:

I hate hate

With all this hating going on,I'm surprised there aren't more suicides. To hate merely means to either correct yourself or leave what bothers you alone(that's why god gave us knobs,dials and legs). But if hate comes a knockin at your door, whack it with a pan. Try spending time watching, listening or participating in things that might offer a lighter and beneficial side of yourself. Ignore the hate, and ignore it even more if it persists. p.s. pills work

What do I hate?
 

Liberals, hippies, anyone who follows a trend just because it's popular, stoners, any seafood(wreaks havoc on my tummy), liver, vain reality shows and other similar shit, welfare bums, mattresses and being without a soulmate(very lonely)

OK.
P.S: I would LOVE to dress you in cute lingerie.

now we're taking!!

enough hate! let's all just love and be what we really want to be :inlove:

Thats all very nice, but there is already a thread for those warm and fuzzy feelings towards anything:

http://forum.transladyboy.com/showthread.php?t=2557

I hate getting old......
 

I hate getting old:turnoff: and I know that there's nothing I can do about it.:broken: