Languages
 

Transladyboy is a site in which the language of communication is in English. Yet there are several members whose mother tongue is not English. I have always admired people who can speak, read, and write a second, third, fourth, etc. language in addition to their mother tongue. It is even more admirable when that person also has to learn a new alphabet.

My mother tongue is English. The only other language I could ever speak with any degree of fluency is German. That's not such a great leap though as English is a Germanic language. English after all is named after the Angles, a Germanic tribe that migrated to the area of southern England from the North Sea area between present day Holland and Denmark. In fact if one listens to the dialect of the Frisians, another North Sea tribe, one would almost think he is listening to English. I only learned to speak German because I lived there for seven years. I am rapidly losing fluency in German though as I haven't spoken it in a number of years. I get the German news channel through my cable tv and as I listen to it I realize just how much I have forgotten.

I took French in school for several years and still don't know how to speak it beyond a few phrases. I did find out though that the French in France is easier to understand than the French spoken in Canada. I have been through several countries in Europe, but I don't speak any of the languages. At best I can get out a few words and phrases in the Romance languages, which are all related by their common root in Latin.

I did know some words and phrases in Greek and I still know the Greek alphabet (capital letters only). At one time I could carry on a conversation in Ukrainian although I tended to throw in a lot of Russian words. I can no longer converse in Ukrainian though and I don't remember very many words. I did manage to figure out most of the Cyrillic alphabet (again only capital letters) and that was all self taught from reading signs. That is the extent of my knowledge of Slavic languages.

I know none of the Arabic or Oriental languages. I am making a broad sweep here with oriental languages by including Turkish, Pashtu, Urdu, Chinese, Japanese, etc. I also cannot read any of these languages (except Turkish which now uses an alphabet based on the Latin alphabet, but I still don't understand the words).

So forum members share with the rest of us your experiences learning languages other than your mother tongue. This includes those whose mother tongue is English as well as all our friends who learned English, as a second language, and are comfortable enough using it to communicate with us on an English site. I find the topic of languages very fascinating and look forward to your responses.

What am I saying, and in which language?
 

Ya ssou fi le mou Ila, kali spe ra. Mi la te Yermani ka? Apo pou ei sai?

Another
 

I hope you like this one, Ila.

Some more is ready to go ;)
 

Cuántos de puede hablar en este idioma?

Quam super is?
 

Respondeo ut is iam.

My guess is Greek and something about speaking German.

And it's only a guess and not a very educated one at that. I only remember a few words of any language that I knew anything of. I was also self taught in anything I did pick up so my grasp of languages wasn't all that strong.

Greek:
Hello Ila, my friend; good afternoon. Do you speak German? Where are you from?

This one should be funny!
 

Ok, Guys... and gals of course ;)
what is written below?

compello mihi == speak to me:yes:

But, what language is it? :rolleyes:

Bionca, exsisto meus amicus. :lol:

Gwenny, vos es vere callidus :p

Hank est sic excolo :D

Ila est plenus of sapientia :cool:

I should have caught that right away. The first three expressions I ever learned were good morning, good afternoon, and good evening. I never knew how to spell them though and it always sounded like two words only. The second Greek expression I learned was how to get the required number of beer. After that it was (and pardon my spelling) Ava Kuprus - which I think translates to "long live Cyprus". It's been a long time so I can't even spell the Greek version of Cyprus using the Latin alphabet.

I 0n1y Kn0w L33T

Ila, "I think you are from Canada"
http://forum.transladyboy.com/files/7/3/9/9/28137.jpg
In Greek alphabets...

Ah, Queen of Hearts is here.

Glad to be in your Holy presence, your Ladyship:inlove:.

Any service for this humble servant, your Highness? Mizzy B?:frown:

You didn't give me a chance work on that.

Sesame.. you are really so sweet and funny.

Queen of Hearts indeed.. lol... I think you have me confused with the lovelies that populate the board just above this one.

I don't speak Spanish. If I had time I could look up the translation. Well ok I have the time I just don't have the inclination right now. I can only recognize two words in there:
hablar - I'm guessing is the infinitive of to speak
idioma - comes from the Latin root meaning one's own

Latin: Ila is full of knowledge.
(I guess my Latin isn't as bad as I thought. Of course Latin had a great influence on English)

So Sesame just how many languages do you know and what are they?

Now, now, you dont have to be so polite. You know fairly well, dont pretend to be a village girl. You are the real star here.:p

I am an ignorant simpleton... stupe. I dont know any language, as such. I barely manage with gestures and pregnant Grunts.:p

Yeah ok, I really believe you.;)

What? Ila, You are making fun of me?

aiiiii weel chkees mizzzz Beeeez!

What do you make out of that?

Nope, not at all.

Latinifera Lufiana
 

Puella Volo basio :
illa women es venustus:
EGO contemplor illa per valde suspicio:

Bionca & GRH
(dea es valde sapiens) *:p*

World Peace
 

وأود ان يكون في العالم كله مرة أخرى. وأود ان يكون واحد في العالم مرة اخرى. ويجب الا يكون هناك الفرح والوئام فى كل مكان.




Some thoughts... I dont know if my Arabic adds up to anything.
So, as an extra precaution, this is what I intend to say. :p
Let the world be whole again.
Let the world be one again.
Let there be joy and harmony everywhere.

A all areithia i mewn Cymraeg 'ma?

my first language is gaelige but unfortunatly i have to speek english due to eight hundred years of english empearialism.

is a gaelige mo chead teanga ach leabhairim bearla de gra

I find your Irish accent very entertaining. Honest to God, its absolutely charming.:respect:

Was post number 8 Hebrew? Aramaic?

And your last post to Bionca and I...

Does it translate to something like "Goddesses of man?"

I'm not very good with foreign languages...The only class I ever failed in college (or my whole life for that matter) was German...But that had a lot to do with my less than stellar attendance. I studied a few years of French back in the day and it is by far my favorite spoken language, it's really beautiful. Too bad I know so little of it.

are you poking fun at my poor typing and spelling skills?

dea es valde sapiens:D

I tried to say, They are very wise goddesses.
sapiens=wise

rhythmic delivery,
Believe me, ;)
I really liked to read that.:innocent:

are you welsh

RDelivery,
Not really.
If you count the languages I have spoken in,
then, I am all these:

1. Greek
2. Hebrew
3. Latin
4. English
5. Arabic
6. Spanish

Who am I?:p

In the Netherlands the kids must learn Dutch, English, French and German in school, I hear. I speak American. But after going to Europe, you really do look at your home country different when you get back.

Jimmy Neutron
 

Elucidate please.:yes:

Latin has such grandeur
 

Effor vestri. Libero vestri animus. Impendo vestri scientia.

~ Express yourself. Free your soul. Expand your knowledge.

Love is the way
 

Amor est via gratia Deus


~Love is the way to God.

It's all Greek to me !
 

What, Sesame ? Reads like Classical Greek to me. Maybe some Latin too ?

As these are not exactly developing languages, they're only part of my murky academic past. I am however stumblingly fluent in French. German - nice easy language to learn but I have not gone very far - no real incentive. But I think it's a good point : Europeans should have access to a Translator on this Forum, and feel free to use their native tongue in expressing their opinions. I for one would enjoy unravelling their contributions - as long as they are not in Basque or Languedoc or similar obscure dialects.

Anyway keep stretching this thread - it's an interesting one -

Latin names and Tigers
 

Its only Latin Mel, I'm referring to the last two posts. I think that Latin has a grace which no other European language has. Also many words in English, French, Italian or German have their Origin in Latin. Most species have their scientific names in Latin.

In old times, upto mid 18th century, scientists whimsically referred to plants and animals with their common names. But these names were Local and varied from region to region. So two people might have been talking about the same animal unknowingly and imagine them to be different due to their fanciful local names!

This problem was solved by Carl Linnaeus (Swedish biologist) in 1758 AD. He proposed a universal naming system called binomial nomenclature. According to him each species should have a unique name and everyone should call it by that name in the scientific community. Binomial, as you can guess means two names, one personal name and one surname(family name = genus). Its very similar to human names, like in Albert Einstein, Albert is his personal name, Einstein is the family name. As a convention, this scientific name was chosen mostly from Latin words. Hence the Latin Name. Later more words are added to denote regional variations. Anyway, in a Latin name, the family name stands first and then comes the personal name. So many species can share the family name, like brothers and sisters, but there is only one personal name. Like there may be many Einsteins, but only one Albert Einstein.

Eg. Tiger
Latin name: Panthera tigris.
subspecies:
Panthera tigris tigris (Royal Bengal tiger)
Panthera tigris balica (Bali tiger became extinct in 1937):no:
Panthera tigris altaica (Siberian tiger)
Panthera tigris amoyensis (South China tiger)
Panthera tigris corbetti (Indochinese tigers, Thailand, named after Jim Corbett, only 1000 left in the world!)
Panthera tigris sumatrae (Sumatra tigers, only about 500!)

Panthera pardus (Leopard)
Panthera onca (Jaguar)
Panthera leo (Lion)

Forgive me, if I bored you to hell with Latin, Linnaeus, Lions and Tigers.:p

I used to be pretty good with Italian, but its like everything else, if you don't use it, you lose it.

Elucidate please. What?
When F Scott and Hemingway and Orson Welles got famous they went to Europe, got to know the people, the languages, absorb, then when they got home it hit them in the face how rascist America was. When Malcolm X went to the middle East he said for the first time in his life he could walk down the street and not FEEL people eryeballing him. Of course it's not as bad now, but there was an episode on the Sopranos where Tony goes to Italy, everybody eats together, the kids play with the parents, there's flowers everywhere, then Tony gets back to Jersey and drives down the NJ parkway and it's chain link fences and smokestacks. People in Europe pay higher taxes but they get it back in services. The Romance languages are deeper culturally.

Aramaic too perhaps ?
 

Since I have you pegged as Ahasuerus ( although he was last identified in Mainz 400 years ago, and you do not claim knowledge of German ) Ecclesiastical Latin would be familiar ground to you. Perhaps you gave Linnaeus a helping hand. Either way, may I be so bold as to point out that you left Panthera uncia off your list. Snow Leopards are so beautiful, they deserve a mention. Next to Panthera nebulosa ( which is still a matter of hot debate in zoological circles as to whether it should be a Felis or one of the Panthera ) it is certainly one of the rarest cats.

No apologies please, Sesame, by all means bang on about Linnaeus. I'm really obsessive about nature, mammals in particular ( quite apart from Trannies, that is ! ), so I'm happy !

My native tongue is Russian.
Fluent in Ukrainian and English.
Got some basics in French and German.
Remember some words from Spanish :)

Ну и само собой немножко уроков по великому и могучему: Здорово, пацаны! Как жизнь молодая! Всем удачи :)

Basque is not a dialect. It is a language in its own right. It is unrelated to any other language currently spoken in Europe. If I remember correctly Basque is not related to any known language anywhere in the world.

Mel Asher
 

Ah, Mel, what are friends like you for?
If I miss something, please, do remind me.
But the Southeast Asian Clouded Leopard
has already got a Latin name. And its :
Neofelis nebulosa

meaning clouded new cat.
Neo = new (Greek), felis = cat (Latin)
Nebulosa = foggy (Latin)
It lives in the rainforests of SE Asia.

Panthera uncia
The magnificent snow leopard of SE Asia.
This beautiful fat-cat :p is found at a height of 10,000 feet!
(officially 5000-18,000 feet) Its home is in the Altai mountains (Russia & Mongolia), Hindu-Kush mountains (Afghanistan) and the Himalayas.
It mostly stays in the snowy heights.

Pardon me, Ila dear, for dragging the thread forcibly into the wild. :p

Latin has influenced so many languages because of the Roman conquests and settlements. A main invasion route to northern Europe was through the Rhine valley in Germany. The Romans built many settlements and fortifications throughout the Rhine valley and that is why Latin had a great influence on German. The Romans were in the British Isles for more than 400 years and that is lone of the reasons there is such a great Latin influence on English. The other reason for the Latin influence on English was the Norman conquest of the 11th century which brought a French influence to English.

French and Italian are derivitives of Latin as are the other Romance languages. They are in effect different developments of Latin created because the people, over time, changed Latin in their local areas and made the new language their own.

Much the same has happened with English and Dutch which are just two languages derived from German.

How did you arrive at this conclusion? The Romance languages developed from Latin. How does that make them culturally deeper than any other language? Don't give me the explanation that Romance languages are more romantic than other languages. The term Romance language is not used to describe the languages in the sense that romance is currently used in English. Rather the term Romance language only means that it was derived from the Romans, who spoke Latin.

English derived from German? That is an insane idea! Or do you mean Germanic (Indo-European family of languages)?(thats true)

I prefer to think that English, French & German developed independantly from Latin & Indo-European family of languages.

In fact, French sounds very much like a twisted dialect of English. (no pun) Just my observation.

To be truly accurate English is a Germanic language. English is named after the Angles, a Germanic tribe. The Saxons, another Germanic tribe, also had a great influence on English. Norwegian and Danish words, through the Viking conquests, have contributed words to the English language. All the Scandanavian languages are classified as Germanic (note Finns are not Scandanavian and their language is not Germanic).

If one traces back the Indo European languages one will find that their common root is Sanskrit.

Sanskrit
 

Sanskrit, as we know it, is not the original Vedic language.
SansKrit as the name signifies is a reformed language.
Samskara=to reform or clean up.
The Old Vedic language is Deva-Bhasha the language of the Gods (Deva).
Panini, a scholar cleaned up the very complex grammer and simplified it into Sanskrit. SansKrit as a language is very scientific, its almost mathematical! If you mixup randomly all the words in a Sanskrit sentence, it will still mean the same! The phonetic speech sounds in Sanskrit also rise and fall in perfect musical rhythm, accurate to the minutest degree. All verses constructed in Sanskrit are bound in a particular metre and a rhythm by the author. This is called Chhanda.

So, Veda was not spoken like random speech.
Rather, it was sung! People communicated in songs, with melody!

Thankyou Sesame. Although I have heard of Sanskrit and its relationship to the Indo-European languages I have never done any real research on it. Your post has been very informative and enlightening.:respect:

My mother language is Turkish ...
I can speak English but not very good when i speak, i write it better.

Türkiye den selamlar herkese !!!
Hepinize saygılar, sevgiler ...

Ila, nasılsın ? Türkçe konuşmak istermisin ? :)

Hi translover. I've been waiting for your comments on this topic since I admire your ability to speak, read, and write in more than one language.

I'm afraid I don't speak any Turkish at all. I did visit your wonderful country many years ago, but I don't remember any of the words and phrases that I picked up. One of the things I do remember is all the people being so friendly towards visitors (whether in the big cities or the small towns that I was in). Everyone that I met there wanted to speak English though, which made it harder to pick up any of the language. Unfortunately my stay wasn't long enough, in any one place, to have time to make friends and really learn the language.

Apologies for the catty remarks !
 

Sesame - I should have know I wouldn't get away with it ! Of course the beautiful Clouded Leopard does not belong to the Panther squad, but there again neither does it belong to the Felids. The skull structure apparently has some unique features with disqualify it from both groups. So there it is all on its own as is the Cheetah. I guess from the snow, the third of your pics is one of Uncia uncia, although I would have expected lighter colouration. Got fantastic paws too - just like camels. Pics 1 and 2 are most certainly Neofelis. Beautiful animals, all three ! Admiration and Respect. So, my apologies for trying to pull that one on you !

Now back to the subject of this thread - ila, I promise I will control my urge to enthuse any more about wildlife on this thread. You are quite right. Basque is linguistically unique and quite separate from the Indo-European languages. It is certainly no dialect, and the jury is still out as to whether the Basques represent the original indigenous people inhabiting the Pyreneean ( is that the right spelling ? It looks kinda funny ) regions. Mea culpa, ila, it was sloppy word usage on my part. Hells Teeth, that's two apologies in one post ! I must be really slipping !

I have to say there seem to be some excellent porn sites of ' Latin ' origin which have been thoroughly trawled for Shemales and Trannies. ( How many times have we come across pictures of Bianca in our Web Travels ? ) By the same token there must be not a few Spanish-speaking and Portuguese-speaking Tgirls and Shemales who would, given the opportunity, take part in this Forum, but who feel excluded by language. Can this be redressed somehow ? Although I have enjoyed reading the discussion on the various origins of European languages, I think reaching out to others whose mother-tongue is not English should be given some further consideration.

Türkiye den selamlar herkese !!! Hi from Turkiye to all people !!!
Hepinize saygılar, sevgiler ... With my respects and loves

Ila, nasılsın ? Türkçe konuşmak istermisin ? Ila, How are you? Would u like to talk Turkish language ?

Merhaba Ila, Hangi şehir/şehirleri ziyaret ettin Türkiyede ? Sana Antalya yı (Türkiyenin güneyi) öneririm bu aylarda tatil için. Çok güzel deniz, kumsal,güneş,sağlam gece hayatı,çok iyi ve lüks oteller ve tatil köyleri (iyi fiyata) ve etrafta birçok travestilerle :yes:. Rehberin olabilirim eğer istersen. Şimdi yurt dışındayım ama ağustos ayında ülkeme gidicem ve ilk olarak Ankara sonra İstanbul ve tatil için Antalya/Kemer veya Antalya/Alanya. :rolleyes:

English:
Hi Ila, Which city/cities you have visited in Turkiye ? And i suggest u, Antalya (south of Turkiye) in these months for holiday. Wonderful sea, beaches, sun,great nightlife, very nice and luxury hotels and resorts (with good prices) and many ladyboys around there :yes::cool:. i can be your guide if u want. I am in abroad now but i will go to my country in August and i will go to Ankara first and then Istanbul and go to holiday in Antalya/Kemer or Antalya/Alanya. :rolleyes:

Mel Asher, please dont apologise like that. We are all friends here. Also, technically speaking, Binomial Nomenclature is a Language of Science!
Relax, mano! ;)

Ila, welcome back from your Piranha hunting trip. :lol: Damn! You ate all of them? Alone? Dont forget, you promised me a good story, on your return!

I am very interested in Old Saxon Roots from which many modern English words have been born. I was wondering if you could provide me with some insight. And perhaps a line or two about their culture?

I recently found out that many of the 26 English alphabets didnt exist in the middle ages. They have been fashioned much later.:eek:

So what happened to the Celtic Tribes in Britain ?
 

It is well documented that invaders eventually incorporate the language of those that they invade, that is, if they settle the land. This was most certainly the case of the Romans who adopted much of the language of the Latins whom they subsumed. To a lesser degree, Latin is littered with Etruscan words incorporated into the language of Rome, although the Etruscans as a people survived much much longer than the Latins. In the case of English, it is true that the ' Low German ' variant of the German Tribes used widely by the Angles, and then later that of the Saxons were combined in the development of AngloSaxon, but the language structure that developed was not Germanic. Instead it was Celtic, taken from the peoples that the Angles and Saxons displaced. Cornish is a somewhat shaky survivor from this. And then ? Norman French. Viking settlers in Brittany with their Scandinavian language. They enriched the emerging English Language as conquerors of an already polyglottal people. And what a debt the English Language owes to the Christial Church and its scholarship. Latin and Greek Classics as standard education for the nobility, and later Scientific Nomenclature - a positive harvest of Greek and Latin, and a linguist's delight.
And so the process goes on with Punjabi, Hindi and French words ( not to mention Dutch and German ) being added to the list all the time.

Ain't Babel worderful ? !

Thank you Mel Asher, or just Mel! :)
That was such a rich article! Something more on old Saxon, with examples would be delicious.:drool:

Make your point with hard evidence please.

You have an interesting idea Mel.:respect: Do you have any proposals as to how to rectify this situation? I am not being sarcastic here. I am truly interested. Anyone can put up a post in any language they desire, but how many people on this site would be able to read a language other than English. If the majority cannot read the message then the purpose of the post is lost. I'm afraid I have no solutions to this. Perhaps someone might. I have seen automatic translation programs and although they can be functional, sometimes the results are hilarious and sometimes misleading.

Hi translover. Yes I would like to learn Turkish or at the very least some useful words and phrases. I like your idea of writing a post in Turkish and then providing the English translation.

When I went to Turkey it was as part of a tour, which was the easiest way at the time to visit. I was in Instanbul, Ankara, and Bursa with a few stops at small towns in between. I had one memorable trip on a ferry from the Black Sea back to Instanbul in which I had an opportunity to talk to some of the people. Unfortunately I was quite drunk from drinking vodka, on the ferry, and so although I was relaxed and had a great time I wasn't able to retain too much Turkish.

I'm afraid I won't be able to make it to Turkey this year. My holidays are over soon and then it's back to work for me.

Thank you Mel. I will change my signature right away.:respect:

Cool thread

I speak Dutch, English and German. And some French, but French is very difficult for me to learn. Those verbs make me go nuts like the verb 'to be':
je suis
tu es
ille est
nous sommes
vous etes

or something like that.

And someone said that English has a different langauge structure, namely Celtic.
I think that might be true, I really think that English stands somewhat apart from the other germanic languages.
For example, when I was little I didnt understand anything when I heard someone speak English but when I was on vacation to Sweden and Norway I could understand what people were talking about after some time while never having heard those languages before.

True. Those are the languages I'm -mostly- fluent in, and I can understand some Spanish, Catalán, Italian and Frisian.

Being Canadian, I was required to learn French in junior school, I've since forgotton all of it. I learned a little German in highschool, but not enough that I consider myself fluent.

konichiwa genki desu?

ok but can u guess this


volim da me jebe trandza

I'm not a 'Sax' maniac - honest !
 

OK, Sesame - just for you. I'll come back to the Celtic question later.

AngloSaxon, otherwise called Old English, is one of those blends from the Indo-European ' Germanic ' languages which was widely spoken in England prior to and contemporary with the Norman Invasion. Not to be confused with Middle English which was a much more streamlined version eliminating a lot of the gender inflections and rigid inflections occurring in the verb endings. Middle English was therefore much nearer English as we know it today and was the lingo that Chaucer used in his Cantebury Tales ( Fairly raunchy in parts - viz the Miller's Tales etc. )

As requested a sample with rough translation. ( I would add that although I can read some Middle English, Old English is beyond my scholarship - so I asked a friend for this sample !

hlude bi hearpan hleoþor swinsade, þonne monige men, modum wlonce,
wordum sprecan, þa þe wel cuþan, þæt hi næfre song sellan ne hyrdon.

Then many men with noble hearts, who understood these things,
openly said that they had never heard a better song.

Good poetic stuff, but my learning has taken me elsewhere
!

They don't come any wilder than me
 

Thanks for the nice comment, Sesame. I'm not sure where I would start with such a thread. The sex life of Chimpanzees, perhaps ? ( Not joking, honest !) But I'm not sure that wildlife would spark an awful lot of interest. Opinions and suggestions ( as vulgar as you like ) welcome on this from anyone.

I'm from Barcelona, so my two official languages are spanish and catalan (and english, but it's not an official state language). Catalan is the language spoke in Catalonia, and it's a really refined one.

Salut i força al canut, gent!!

On the subject of non-English Posts ( as opposed to those linguistic whimsies that are presented to everyone as a sort of guessing game ) I don't think that the inclusion of a link to a Universal Translator program among the available Tools would be all that a bad idea - even though some of the translations might turn out to be a bit hillarious - This woud give at least some meaning to the non-English posts so that we could all benefit from them. I put the idea to Grand Shemale Lover, but he didn't seem to think it a very good idea - so . . . . keep reaching for those dictionaries !

Another end left loose after my unenjoyable fun and games on the motorway -

Courtesy of my son-in-law ( a Hindu Doctor ) :
Bungalow = Low Dwelling in Bengali / Hindi
Pukka = Thorough ( Hindi )
Pundit ( Hindi )
Guru ( Hindi / Punjabi )

And Dutch : A Boom ( on a boat ), Trek = A trail, Landscape ( means the same, but spelling slightly different ), and Mannequin ( meaning Little Man Viz - Le Mannequin qui pisse )

French - Loads of them - you can probably think of these : Bayoney, Rifle, Unique, Crayon, Sachet

German - some obvious ones : Kindergarten, Flak, Rucksack ( a mild insult in Dutch ) Snorkel etc.

Enjoy

As soon as I get the time Mel I shall refute your arguments, quoting applicable text. Until then all I will say is that you are not completely right and you are not completely wrong.

A question for you nmlss, and I'm not being facetious here. Is Catalan considered a language on its own or is it considered a dialect of Spanish? If it is a dialect how does it differ from Spanish? If it is a language to what group of languages does it belong?

I'll tell you. But first I have to tell you a little bit of Spanish History X.

Catalan is a real language. In Spain there are nationalism from Catalonia (which demands independence) and the Spanish Nationalism (whick says "Spain is one, not fiftyone).

The spanish nationalism came from Franco's dictatorship, and the catalan one from the Civil War's anarchists. This is where this "Language war" started.

If you ask a reactionary spanish (which doesn't speaks catalan) he'll say "It's a dialect!!! In Spain we only talk one language, not fiftyone!!!"

If you ask a catalan (a person who SPEAKS catalan) or a spaniard with common sense they'll say "Of course it's a language"

I'll sum up!!: Catalan IS a LANGUAGE, and it's spoken on the east cost of Spain, the zone of "Catalan Countries" (Catalunya, València (well, they speak Valencian, but it comes from the same root as catalan) and Illes Balears). In these autonom communities it's the official language along with spanish, but in Andorra, the country in the Pyrinees, it's the oficial one.

Well, hope you can understand my words, I'm talking my third language, so probably I made lots of errors, hehe. :p

Indian words in English
 

Well, Pundit and Guru are actually Sanskrit words, but I guess they got into the English vocabulary from the Hindi dialect during the British Raj in India.
Other words are:

avatar: meaning the incarnations of God on earth.
karma: means both good and bad actions in Sanskrit; but in the West, only the bad deeds are taken for the word Karma.
Guru: means spiritual master, teacher, initiator. Gu= darkness, Ru= Light. He who takes us from darkness to light is the Guru.
Desi: local, grown in the state.
Charisma: Urdu word. Meaning~ Miracle.
Baba: father, papa, dad. Sometimes refers to a holyman.
Yoga: Sanskrit. Means connection, way. Commonly people think of Hatha-Yoga postures by this word, but it really refers to the connection between man and God.
Lemon: "Nimbu" Early Sanskrit means Lemon and Lime. People of Bengal still call it Lebu. L substitutes N. Arabic = Limun, Persian=Limou.
Mantra: powerful words for chanting. Sanskrit. Mana+Tra. Mana=mind, Tra=trana=to free. The thought of which frees our mind.
Mind: Mana, Manas. Sanskrit.
Nirvana: Sanskrit. Ultimate Freedom. Extinguish.
Three: Vedic Sanskrit. Tri. Means 3. Like Gayatri, Triveda, trishula.
Diva: Divya, Sanskrit. Meaning of Godly source. Deva= god, Devi =goddess.
Navy: Nauka, Nau. Ancient Indian*. Sanskrit. means a boat. That which floats in water. Or Navik= an experienced sailor or navigator.

\/\/7F? 100|<5 /\/\0|^3 1¦|<3 n00|3 2 /\/\3.

Few mistake there.

Charisma come from the greek χάρισμα meaning gift or divine favour.


Navy comes from the French navigium meaning "fleet of ships", which in turn comes from the latin navis, "ship" and agere, "to drive"

Three The prefix "tri-" supposedly comes form Sanskrit, but three itself comes from Latin "tres"

Mind comes from old English ġemynd, which comes from proto-germanic gamunđiz. which if it shares any common origin with the sanscrit word mana is only through the hypothetical proto-indo-european language, which of course means it pre-dates both languages and so one can not be said to be derived of the other.

Sanskrit Origin
 

Early form of Sanskrit or Vedic language is from 2000 BC or earlier.
Early Greek language begins at 750 BC.
Ancient Roman or Latin begins from 100 Bc to 100 AD.

The Nava, Nau, Nauka word meaning boat or navigation is from Rigveda. As it sounds similar and means the same in all other relatively younger languages, it must be the origin of the word. Same goes for "mind".

Same reason goes for Two, three... Ten. I am not sure of the word one. Sanskrit is Ek. Zero and decimal system comes from Sanskrit again.

Second as a unit of time comes from the Sanskrit word, Ksana or Ksanda.

i'm so lost......

fi

Last time I checked mana does not sound like gamunđiz. and second as a unit of time comes from French.

Being first does not make it the origin, isolation of the Indian subcontinent from Europe prior to 2000BC makes it pretty unlikely that Ancient greek words could have originated from Sanskrit, a common origin is not the same thing as a derivation, does it make sense to you that a set of people would divide onto different continents, develop thier own languages, then one set of people develops a new language based on the other set whom they have no recorded direct contact with at all? Or is it more sensible that a set of people had one language, they divided and they developed languages based on that one language independently?

The original language was proto-indo-european.



oh and also, in your list baba is not an English word.

I can only speak English and just enough German that if I was magically whisked to Germany I could get by and still look a fool to the Germans.

Second Ksana as the oldest unit of Time
 

:lol:Many experts think otherwise.
French language is much younger compared to Ancient Vedic Sanskrit.

Ancient Vedic Sanskrit dates from 4000BC to 2000BC. Let Somebody challange me on that.
French:
French language came to being from vernacular Latin used in the Roman Empire. The ancient French were actually Celtic Gauls before Caeser invaded them in 52 BC. Old French started around the 1st century BC to the 14th century AD. Middle French 14th to 16th century. Modern French 16th to Now. Old French was imbibed with many Germanic words when the Roman empire was crumbling under attack from the invaders. (;) Hey Anna, I think Darth Vader came from Invader!! It has nothing to do with French though.) If a word is used in different languages, implying the same meaning, then, it must come from the most ancient language. Thats how Linguists determine the origin of words. Some arrogant linguists even go to the length of determining the age of a civilization by sheer guesswork! But I am not doing that, I am providing solid proof. Do you want the exact verses of Rigveda? I can get them too.

Is that a logical fallacy I see there....

You assume that the oldest recorded language is the oldest there is. Do you think people were just silent before 2000BC?

Previously I had posted that European languages derived from Sanskrit. I based this comment on what I remembered from English classes during my high school years. I have recently gone back through some of my reference books to do some research on the origin of English.

European languages did not have Sanskrit as a common source. Rather Sanskrit and the European languages have a common source known as "Indo-European". There is some controversy over where the original speakers of "Indo-European" lived. Some have argued that the original speakers were the Kurgan culture of the Russian steppes. Others have suggested the origin is from a farming culture of the Danube valley. The currently accepted theory is that the language comes from a people who lived in a cold, northern climate. The dates of origin vary from 6000 BC to 4500 BC. Words for snow, beech, bee, and wolf had an important role in this language. Also the prehistoric "Indo-European" language didn't have a word for sea. For these reasons scholars have placed the origin of the "Indo-Europeans" in northern Central Europe.

Source
The Story of English
Robert McCrum, William Cran, and Robert MacNeil
Viking Penguin Incorporated
First American edition published 1986
Pages 51 - 53

Vedic Origin
 

Yeah Ila, all these Indo-European Ethnic groups making epic journeys across Continents... ... is based on the Aryan Invasion theory and the scholarly fascination for Mesopotemia. Perhaps there was an ancient group, but as science is cleaning up the colonial mist, another scenario is coming to view. There was no Aryan Invasion ever. The British colonials spread the lie to rule and subjugate. The German Nazis spread the rumours to tickle it's citizens and motivate them under one banner by awakening German Pride and the dream of a superior race. This was the tendency of european scholars to show the civilization of Mesopotemia as the point of origin of the Indo-Aryans, Persian-Aryans or Indus Valley civilization. Everything begins in Mesopotemia and ends up in far-off places around the world! Fancy wishful reverse calculators! Is that research to ascertain truth or bending truth to one's prejudice?

Recent satellite images show that the early Vedic people were inhabitants of the now extinct Saraswati basin. You will note that the Vedic civilization shifted from the banks of Saraswati to Sindhu to Ganges. This whole process took thousands of years to unfold. No foreign rivers or steppes or animals have ever been mentioned in all the four vedas. The whole migration theory through Ural and Siberian landscape was just guesswork of idle scholars. And the fixing of Vedic age to 1200 BC by the Germans was the stupidest guesswork of the century.
Prof. Max Muller divided the Vedic literature into four periods Chhanda (rhythm), Mantra, Brahmana and Sutra. Since Vedas came before Buddhism ( which starts at 400 BC), the learned scholar just imagines using his tiny brain. And he then ascribes 200 years to each of those 4 imaginery periods and declares the earliest Vedic date as 400+(200x4)=1200BC!! Isn't that funny?
Then a Chinese scholar Dr. Haug comes along and calculates by assigning each period to be 500 years, because Chinese literature changed in that pace. So he fixed the earliest Veda (Rigveda) at 400+(500x4)= 2400 BC. But Tilak ended all this fancy guessing game by providing astronomical data and pinpointing the Vedic age by science. Through thousands of years, constellations in the sky change position as they rise and set. The stars mentioned in the vedic rituals provide ample proof of that. He fixed the first vedic hymns to be created before 4000 BC.

My friends, I assure you, I cannot compete on grounds intellect in this subject. I know next to NOTHING about linguistic development, and won't pretend to be an expert in the subject. But of what I have read, Sanskrit seems to be one of the oldest of languages, and a variety of sources cite that these tales/language date back to around 4,000 BCE. Whether it is in fact the OLDEST or not, I don't know, but I suspect the origins of recorded language probably originated not TOO far from the Middle East region/India.

As an aside that is completely irrelevant to this discussion...Is Sanskrit difficult to learn? It is a language that I feel that I should learn, but I am SO not motivated when it comes to foreign languages (particularly ones of antiquity), that I don't even know when to start. There is no such thing as "a class" about Sanskrit where I am from, so where would an initiate start?

I rather doubt there were any epic journeys across continents, but rather the slow dispersion of people across continents down through the ages. Humans did not spontaneously spring up all over the planet. There was a gradual migration from one area to another.

Ila, wasn't this how the Native American's entered this continent, an epic migration from one to the other via land bridge? Or am I mistaken?

Wait a second, you are the one expecting us to believe that Sanskit speakers travelled all the way to Europe and persuaded the locals to change their words for boat, two and mind. You are just making fancy wishful reverse calculations where everything starts in India and ends up in different parts of the world.

The theory is that there was a migration from Asia to the Americas across a land bridge where the Bering Sea is now. I don't know whether it could be classified as an epic migration or just a migration of small groups over a long period of time. In my mind an epic migration would be the movement of a large group of people over a long distance in a short space of time. I don't know if the populating of the Americas was done in this fashion or not.

The alternate to the migration theory is from the Natives themselves which say that they were always in the Americas and did not migrate here from anywhere else.

Civilizations come and go
 

:lol: Good ideas travel far and wide. At those times, it was not India as we know it now, not even Bharat, it was just Jambudweep, a centre of civilization. Dont get upset, 6000 years ago, european civilization was in it's infancy. Times come and times go. I didnt say that all good things began in India, but a lot of things attracted Westerers to that land. Why do you think so many expedetions were undertaken to chart a route to India? Why were so many places of the world named after the Indians? The Red Indians, the West Indies, Indonesia... why do they have India in common? Christopher Columbus in 1492 AD upon landing in North America, mistakenly thought that he had discovered India! So he named the locals Indians.

Other Cultures:
The Red-Indians held sway in America. Europeans only came later. The Hanging Garden was created in Babylon and the Great wall in China. Democracy, sculpture, Logical-Debates and a lot of other things began in Greece. Fire and gunpowder was invented in China. The Nalanda University (427-1197AD) in Pala era was one of the oldest centres of learning in the world! The Mayan culture of Mexico, the Aztecs and Incas were most fascinating (except the blood thirst). Ah, and dont forget Yoga and Ayurveda, they are also from India. Buddhism originated in India. The early Brahamanic culture in India was great (but later caste systems were really bad). The European Clergy culture was also magnificent, except the bigotry. Christianity came from Israel, the modern Christians tend to forget that. The Japanese warlike Samurai culture was also a masterpiece. Times change, nothing remains the same. The powerful may become ignorant, the rich can become paupers. Civilizations crumble and become extinct, new ones grow up. So, dont be prejudiced, give due credit, Annie.

Thank you. It's been a long time since school so I forgot much. I agree with what you think. A series of small groups over time seems more logical than a mass exodus. A mass exodus would likely need a reason to move yes? So what could that be then? A massive war? Famine, disease, some other thing? No evidence of this. So it's likely small groups over time moved for various reasons. Perhaps a small tribe fled from conflict with another. Or most likely it was just man's natural curiosity.

The alternate theory is also quite likely. They may well have always been here.

I saw a documentary which showed the migration of early American Indians during an Ice Age. Their hunting grounds were shrinking so they were forced to migrate. In the beginning, they were like Eskimos and primarily lived on seals and marine fish. They travelled in kayaks made of stretched leather and used animal bones and flint stones for weapons. I am very much fascinated by the ancient wisdom and hunting skills of the Red Indians and Aztecs.
Castaneda states that the stone artifacts found in some of the Mexican sites are 10,000 years old. It may be true.

WTF? that makes no sense. Names for objects are not ideas. I think you fail to comprehend reality.

Second as a unit of time is an idea, so is zero and the decimal system.

You know there are stone artifacts found in Africa, Europe and Asia that pre date homo sapiens. Stone artifacts in Ethiopia date from 2.6 million years ago.

Umm, the second was not invented until the year 1000, by subdivision of the minuite by 60, creating the second, and again by 60 creating the third and then fourth. The word for second of course coming from the cardinal number.


And why would the greeks use the vedic names for numbers but not the decimal system itself? Major logic failure!

Think before you speak boyo.