Who gets high?
 

I'm just curious how many others among you like to partake in mind-altering substances? I will refrain from posting just all that I have dappled with, but assume that the list is long. :)

mind-altering
 

no I don't partake in mind-altering substances unless you're including alcohol, but I don't take that in mind-altering quantities, infact I don't like to be drunk.
I have dabbled with various drugs in the past and from about 16 to 20 I used to get stoned (dope) almost every day and really enjoyed it. Infact about 20 I realised I had hardly ever had sex without being stoned! It wasn't a big conscious decision to stop, it just wasn't doing much for me anymore. I don't think I have an addictive personality. Now I find that the world around and 'reality' is a fairly mind-altering experience.:rolleyes:

Very VERY rarely .. I used to do and I have tried many things, but it just doesn't happen so much these days. Guess I becoming a dull spinster

I dont take any illegal drugs or substances, don't see the point. Expensive, fucks you up mentally (and physically sometimes) and can have big effects further down the line in life. Same can be said about alcohol, which I do drink, but I only really drink in moderation.

Never done drugs, and hopefullynever will.
As for alcohol... well, that's another story lol. In fact, I like drinking very much, but I don't like getting drunk, so I always know where to stop.

People that think alcohol is not a drug, I laugh. I have been up and down so many times with so many things. Things in life can make a weak person even weaker. Alcohol has been the worst drug ive been addicted to. Benzodiazapienes come in second, Like booze hard to stop without pain.
Ive tried several tryptamines and a few phenethylamines enjoyed em all.
Ive Tried and used various types of speed (a Phenethylamine). They have been useful. got me thru some tough times.

Ive stopped all that, But Still smoke the reefer.
I love mary almost as much as Barbie Woods.

I used to smoke weed all the time but the novelty wore off so don't bother with it anymore.

Personally I don't have a problem with it, but theres lots of people that have given it a bad name and it still fells like alot of people frown upon it. Alcohol is far more dangerous as your never yourself when you're plastered.

I FUCKING LOVE SMOKING THE GREATEST PLANT THE GOD GAVE US i love you maryjane

I love booze and I love weed!

Thank heavens! At least I don't feel like the only one anymore. :) I love psychadelics as well, but have been far too long without any.

Won't you sing along with me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFNAdnHc_uU

Hits from the bong
Hits from the bong
Hits from the bong
Hits from the bong

Pick it
Pack it
Fire it up, come along
And take a hit from the bong
Put the blunt down
Just for a second
Don't get me wrong
It's not a new method
Inhale
Exhale
Just got an ounce in the mail
I like a blunt or a big fat cone
But my double-barrel bong
Is gettin' me stoned
I'm skill it
There's water inside don't spill it
It smells like shit on the carpet
Still it
Goes down smooth when I get a clean hit
Of the skunky, phunky, smelly green shit
Sing my song
Puff all night long
As I take hits from the bong
Hits from the bong y'all

Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?
Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?

Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?
Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?

Let's smoke that bowl
Hit the bong
And then take that finger off of that hole
Plug it
Unplug it
Don't strain
I love you Mary Jane
She never complains
When I hit Mary
With that flame
I light up the cherry
She's so good to me
When I pack a fresh bowl I clean the screen
Don't get me stirred up
The smoke, through the bubbling water
Is makin' it pure so I got ta
Take my hit and hold it
Just like Chong
I get the bowl and I reload it
Get my four-footer and bring it on
As I take hits from the bong

Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?
Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?

Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?
Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?

Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?
Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?

Hits from the bong
Can i get a....hit?

Unfortunately, for my drug history, we'd have to invent songs that haven't even been sung yet. :) The list would include:

Alcohol: I'm sure there's numerous getting drunk songs on the market
Marijuana: Again, consult a variety of hippie songs
Cocaine: Grateful Dead, "Casey Jones"
Heroin/Various Narcs: The Wall, "Comfortably Numb"
Amphetamines: Not sure what comes to mind
LSD: The Beatles, "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds"
Ketamine: My best guess would be Marilyn Manson, "Dissociative"
Mescaline: I'm clueless...???
DMT: See above...???
Salvia: See above...???
Ecstasy: I'm sure some rave song has been written that I'm not aware of...
Ether: See above...???
5-MeO-DMT: See above...???
Datura: See above...??? The closest I can think of is literary reference...
Tiletamine: Veterinary drugs don't have many songs...
Benzos, Piperazines, GHB, and many others: Yeah, I doubt any songs have been written about these lesser drugs...

God, putting it like that...I'm such a junkie...

omg, ether! that's so 1800's.

I've huffed a lot of that shit by accident in labs, its good stuff, lol.

I bet junkies would pay good money to stand next to the sinks in our undergraduate labs, our handling of many psychoactive chemicals is very sub standard....

Yes, chemistry labs are fun! :) I stole a lot of chemicals and supplies from labs over the years...Back when I was hoping to have my own means of clandestine synthesis. I've pretty much given up on that sh*t, but I still wouldn't mind trying/synthesizing PCP at some point. I spent many a hours messed up on diethyl ether back in the day...I found that smoking pot before hand made it INCREDIBLY trippy, on par with some psychadelics, albeit for a short amount of time. I found that the film "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" sort of mischaracterized ether's effect...Alas, it's hard to portray some drugs on film...All in all, the film did a very good job.

Same as, never tried acid, but every mushroom trip ive had had been awesome. Can't recommend them enough.

dis an dat
 

Datura! That's a blast from the past. Reminds me of when a group of us came across a Datura plant and set about making some tea. Well I don't remember anyone getting a transcendental high, infact I think most of us ended up being quite sick. Either our botanic knowledge wasn't as good as we thought or we didn't brew the tea right. Anyway, that was that for Datura.

Reservoir of Otherworldly Knowledge
 

Blimey!:eek:
GRH, you are an Amazing person! You are an encyclopedia of drugs!
Ok, let's take advantage of your extensive knowledge... Please tell us the special feeling (mental, physical or even trancendental that you experienced with the intake of each drug. How are they different from one another? Also, mention if the hangovers are of the same kind.
Please please please....:p

No problem Sesame, I'd LOVE to, that said, I could probably write a book on the topic of drugs and my own personal history. So if you could simplify your inquiry a bit, I'd be more than willing to accomadate. I guess in saying that, is there any place you'd like to start the discussion/comparison? To simply ask me to describe them all is a bit overwhelming...I don't mind doing it, but a bit of direction regarding what to cover first would be appreciated. :O It's refreshing to see someone who appreciates a girl with a bit of knowledge regarding altered states. :inlove:

Altered states
 

Ok, GRH,
You could begin by describing the Altered States.:D
Is it something like a Dream state?

Sesame, I'm not sure what parallel to draw??? I've dreamt many of times, and I've been altered many times...

That said, there are obvious parallels between the two. At my current state of consciousness, I can't always tell the difference. Let me explain...

I have always dreamed lucidly...My ability to differentiate the dream state from waking is something that seems to be a gift to me. In almost all of my dreams, I am aware on some level of the fact that I am dreaming. That said, I have had profound dreams...I have experienced prophetic dreams and dreams of exreme importance. For someone such as myself, the line between sleep and awake is often blurred...This is affected by my own tendency towards suffering from chronic insomnia...

Perhaps this is one reason that I gravitate towards altered states of being (and altered states of being asleep!). Just the other night I was in this weird state where I wasn't quite awake, nor was I entirely dreaming. I was aware of what was going on around me, yet I was in another world. THIS is what psychadelic consciousness is like to some extent. I found myself waking up at multiple points throuth the night...At one point I was reaching out (literally waking up my spouse) in an attempt to catch a ball...At another point in my dream state, I woke myself up biting my pillow, while thinking that I was fending off some attacker. Someone such as myself has a difficulty differentiating between a "dream" and "reality." The two concepts become an intermeshed perspective of the larger notion of TRUE consciousness...

Our discussion of consciousness and reality could probably eclipse any topic intended for this message board, but I hope that my cursory definition gives you some perspective regarding myself. :) This said, I still welcome exploring at more depth ANY given topic of drugs or consciousness, it's one of the few areas that I feel to have lots of experience. It's one of the few areas that doesn't distinguish between our conceptions of male/female, rich/poor, black/white/brazilian/etc. Consciousness is a primal exploration of who we really are, and drugs are one of the more primitive means by which we get to this ends!

More directly...

An altered state is something unique in and of itself...The altered state may be like a dream state, but a lot of that depends on the mechanisms that the drug relies upon. Some drugs are notorious for mimicking a dream state...

Other drugs produce things a bit different...

There is a classic difference, and this is often drawn between the tryptamine/phenethylamine type drugs and other less classic psychadelics (dissociatives, deleriants, etc.). The classic psychadelics often produce a state of consciousness that is aware of the fact that a person is in fact under the influence of drugs. Thus, ideas that "walls are breathing" or that "colors or bleeding" and the sort are common sorts of hallucinations that are born out of the fact that a person is usually aware that they are under SOME sort of influence of a drug.

By contrast, under some drugs, a person has very little conception (if any at all!) that they are under the influence; thus, the idea of altered states is one that depends on their idea of being under the influence of drugs. Deleriants such as "Datura" and other Solanaceous deleriants act in this capacity...Their neuromechanism is very different from the route of tryptamine/phenethylamine drugs. The deleriant route is based on acetylcholine inhibition, and this route has been exploited over the years by various classes of witches, etc. who have employed differerent Solanaceous drugs over the years (Datura, Brugmansia, Brunfelsia, Henbane, Beladonna, Mandrake, etc.). Many of the witches actually employed the "drug at question" over the years, and there is some skepticism that some of the witches employed said drug via a vaginal route, through the application of the drug through through transdermal vaginal absorption.

Regardless of whether you believe this most recent post, I hope that you WILL believe, there are MANY ways of interpretting transdermal absorption.

GRH:
There is another way: meditation.
Anyway, I am also very interested in the exploration of the four main states:
1) Ordinary consciousness: Awake
2) Dream (REM=Rapid Eye Movement)
3) Deep Sleep (No REM)
4) Superconscious :D (:eek:)

The difference between waking and dream is the absence of concreteness or a point of reference in the latter. But Dream is vitally linked to our well being and Not a false state. In Dreams, we get rid of the shackles of our physical body and can reach anywhere in lightning speed.;)

In Deep sleep, we remain totally unconscious, we dont even dream. We stop thinking here. I fact this is the real rest we get during sleep. Rest for the body and mind. (in dream, the body rests, but the mind keeps busy)

There are states in between which we can reach with meditation:yes: or drug use. In my opinion, with meditation, we can reach states where one is More Conscious of Oneself than Waking or Dreaming.
I am talking about this state... More like, I am conscious of myself, but not in the ordinary world.

Hey, I had similar experiences, and in waking state! Without drugs!
I was affected by malaria... during the last few days, I saw that the walls were alive and oozing light. :D The ceiling of my bedroom was caving in upon my face. And my imagination and intuition was Boosted a 1000 times! How cool is that! On the downside, I saw horrible ugly creatues lurking around. But that is nothing in compare to the elation I felt.
God, how I miss that magical state!
I am willing to suffer from malaria for the rest of my life.:lol:

Absinthe
 

Have you been ever charmed by Absinthe?
[Lets continue with consciousness, I am just curious]

Strong Substance
 

The intoxicating substance TRANSGENERIS BEAUTIFICATUS (sometimes referred to in street parlance as "hot tranny beauty") is the subject of much debate. Opinion varies as to what is the preferred form of the substance, how it should be classified (hallucinogen? empathogen? anxiolytic?), what the effects of consumption are, and whether it is addictive.

Essentially a naturally occurring substance, there is sometimes chemical intervention in it's structure. This can be referred to as the Altered State (not to be confused with an altered state caused by consumption). For the vast majority ingestion is ocular. Intimate transdermal absorbtion is more advanced and rarer, and may include oral and anal ingestion.

The most evident form is the mass marketed version (Brazil and Thailand being principle sources) disseminated commercially throughout the world. Users of this version report that the effect is a mounting excitement leading to a brief euphoria and release of tension. Though generally considered harmless, some users can experience after effects of shame and confusion. (for further reports see the works of Dr. Wakitov)

In some cases consumption of the mass marketed version can lead to substance abuse. Esteemed writer Aldina B Huxley in her work "The Doors of Perception" points out that those prone to substance abuse develop severely distorted perception resulting in the condition known as 'dickhead'. She recommends a pure and highly refined version of the substance, and an understanding of it's qualities. A word of warning; this version is strong, it needs to be treated properly and handled with care. It may be too strong for some.

Another proponent of the mind-altering positive effects of the strong version is Prof. Havethelot. He has written extensively about the transcendental state attainable by prolonged exposure and fully incorporating the substance into one's life.

(nb: this article is written under the influence)

Transsexual Appreciation
 

Bravo! Marlowe, Bravo!. :lol:

That would be Hank.:)

The Doors of Perception is a 1954 book by Aldous Huxley... This is a Real Book! Anyway, you could be referring to GRH (for the perception thing) or Bionca (for satiric outspokenness?)

I surrender.:p I've got no insights on this one. It may be the figment of your imagination, Marlowe!

Brilliant essay!

Sesame, I have been charmed by Absinthe before...A very nice liquor in my estimation, particularly if served right (but alas, there is some debate about what actually constitutes the traditional means of serving). It is heavily flavored of anise...The wormwood's bitterness is overthrown by the other herbs in the brew (star anise, fennel, etc.), thus the final brew is somewhat sweet, albeit HIGHLY alcoholic. The "magic" of absinthe is hypothesized to originate from the wormwood, more specifically, from the thujone that it contains. (Thujone exists in alpha and beta forms and is regulated by the FDA so as to not exist in food/drink products.) Thujone in high doses is a neurotoxin and can lead to the perception of a yellowish haze around things...Some attribute VanGogh's color sensibility to being influenced by absinthe. That said, absinthe got a really bad reputation at a time when little if anything was understood of alcoholism. Most of the reported symptoms of "absinthism" are in fact synonymous with alcoholism-- absinthe became the scapegoat for a culture struggling to understand the nature of alcohol addiction. The fact that it was one of the highest proof beverages of the day (and often imitated via unsavory and unsafe methods) absinthe is what ended up being banned. Such is the role of governments I suppose...It's really a pity, it is a good beverage...

That said, I'm glad you had a favorable run-in with malaria. :) MANY things can trigger altered perceptions of the universe...Stress, disease, drugs, meditation, holy books, dance, drumming, etc. My own opinion regarding altered states is that the consciousness experienced under the influence is every bit as valid as normal, waking consciousness. For that matter, like you, I view dream states as valid states of consciousness. I think waking consciousness is only one, very limited means of perceiving things. Too many people buy into the idea that this waking life is the only thing to our existence...

I myself think that we are so much more than this. That said, I'm glad to know that you have explored meditation. This is a route that I need to explore more, it would probably be less harmful to my body than all the chemicals. I must say though, I'm lazy, and psychoactives are the arm-chair quarterback's means of enlightenment. What is your major influence...Buddhist meditation? I myself have had my own spirituality heavily influenced by Hinduism...

That said, regarding our conversation about drugs, do you have any preference? Otherwise I might just pick an arbitrary place to start and will slowly pick away at describing the different categories, highs, comedowns, etc. :)

GRH:
Yes, GRH, meditation is beneficial to body and mind, but one must try for a long time with much discipline to get used to it. You can't master it in 3 days. :D People want fast results and turn to drugs due to impatience. Drugs can also take one to unexplored domains of consciousness. But Drug is like a zip-zap-zoom method. You are there even before you begin to understand it. Here, Meditation has extra advantage. Meditation is slow in the beginning, but you have control over it's mechanism. And you can reach any particular plane of consciousness as many times you wish at will. With drugs, you dont know the station the train will stop at.;) But still I am interested in knowing (2nd hand :lol: ) about drug induced experiences, because it tells us about unexplored regions of consciousness.
The real life [REALITY]is necessary for all of us. But sometimes I find it quite boring. :p

Ok, the helps I recieved in meditation come from various schools of philosophy: In order of effectiveness===>
1) Vedanta from the Upanishads [Hindu]
2) Vipassana from Dhammapad [Buddhist]
3) Gita [Hindu]
4) Yoga (Rajayoga & Hathayoga) & (Aurovindo) [Hindu]
5) Don Juan (Books by Carlos Castaneda) [American Indian]

I had many bouts with monks smoking Ganja (cannabis) :D
When they offered, I declined gracefully. You can start with Cannabis.
In one of my visits to the Himalayas, I took refuge in a hermitage for the night. This particular Hermit had a huge garden full of various psychotropic herbs! And he was a very strong, helpful and happy person. (not the typical drug junkie) ;)
Actually these herbs can also open gateways to subtle states of the mind. But their unrestrained use (or abuse) by undisciplined people gives them a bad name. As such, mother nature is quite unbiased. She has such priceless jewels hidden in her bosom!

This is one part of life where I really cannot boast of any particular experience... I've tried pot three times and never did it rock my boat. Not too long ago the gorgeous Fi (my x) introduced me to some funny Balinese mushrooms... hmmm... I admit I got a wee bit weird (more than usual), but like for the pot it didn't really work in a pleasurable way.

Nope, stay away from that crap and have a couple of beers in stead :-) Or even better, to get REAL high, suck your lady friend dry of her beautiful, beautiful liquified proteins... yummie!

Cheers!

H

Hanky, my jolly friend :D,
You must be getting overdosed with protein by now! :lol:

No complaints... I even skipped my morning-egg thrice a week...:rolleyes:

Alcohol for me
 

GRH, (& Hank)
I never get high with any narcotic substance.
Thats not my domain. I like certain alcohols, but only for their taste or flavour; Never to get intoxicated. Those which I like are:
1) Old scotch whiskey (I like Irish stuff)
2) John Bull Blended Whiskey
3) Cherry Brandy :p (sweet deep-red nectar)
4) Pineapple Beer :lol: (I like sweet fruity stuff)
5) Plum wine; Pinapple wine;
6) Mead (Honey :D)

As you can see, I am a sweet sweet person!:p

Hanky, you can make fun of yourself.
This is a very rare quality. I respect you for that. :respect:

Alas Hank, drugs have ALWAYS gotten me off better than sex ever could. :) To each their own though...

Practice with drugs can lead to experience, and you can begin to learn methods for guiding the train's journey. Some drugs are so completely predictable (for me at least) that I could just about give you a plot synopsis of the high prior to ever ingesting (i.e. cocaine). As to meditation, yes, it is the slowness that has always deterred me. Patience is a difficult thing to come by, especially in our convenience-driven culture. One of my best friends was very into yoga and meditation...He was sober for 30 years, but then somewhere along the way decided that he wanted to reenter the drug culture. I was never sure why he made that decision, but I think the elder care of his mother and father drove him to desparation. At any rate, even at his junkie worst, he still went running every day, would do yoga, etc. He insisted that the routine helped to keep him grounded and could ultimately take him to places farther than drugs.

We share many influences! :) I absolutely love the Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads. As to Hathayoga and Aurovindo, I am somewhat familiar. As to the Don Juan books, these are a very good read, despite the rather dubious authenticity of Castaneda's dissertation. If you like Native American spirituality, I would recommend "Rolling Thunder" as a very good book that explores an alternate view of reality and draws parallels between this school of thought and the East.


I would like to meet this Hermit. Herbs are one of my primary interests in horticulture, and I would love to have an apothecary/herbal garden some day. Right now I grow many culinary herbs, but I LOVE plants that have a history of use among mankind. For example, aconitum, mandrake, etc. are plants that I would really like to grow despite the fact that I have no interest in ever using these plants functionally. I think they are powerful plants, what Native Americans would call "helper plants."

In Indian belief, "helper plants" have their own spirit. I believe this. Each plant is unique and important, many we have only just begun to discover their utility in an ecosystem. This is not to say that ALL plants should be utilized in some functional manner by people. Still, MANY plants can be...Thus they are "helpers." Psychoactive plants are among them, but so are food plants, flowers, and medicines. I believe there is a reason that certain plants alter our consciousness in certain ways; further, I believe that we have brains and responsibility enough to use these plants. Government prohibition is the height of arrogance...Arrogance of mankind against both God, natural selection, and millions of years of evolution.

Alright, on to cannabis...
(I pause to collect my thoughts.)

Hmmm... wonder whether that's due to the sexual quality of the drugs or the opposite of ur chosen sex-partners...??? :D

Cannabis is one of the most universally used drugs, probably behind only alcohol and caffeine. For our disccussion, I will include all cannabis derivatives in this discussion to include raw cannabis, hash (screened trichomes that are pressed together), hash oil (the oil exuded from pressed hash), tinctures, etc. As to synthetic THC (brand name Marinol), I have no personal experience, but know from talking to others that it it not as effective for a variety of reasons.

Cannabis achieves its psychoactivity via a number of cannibinoids, with THC (tetra-hydrocannibinol) being the most notorious. That said, THC is not the sole chemical responsible for the psychoactivity (This is one reason Marinol is less effective therapeutically). The different ratios of cannibinoids and other chemicals affect the overall psychoactivity...

Two distinct strains of cannabis are generally recognized...Sometimes a third, though I won't go into that. There is Cannabis sativa and Cannabis indica. The sativa strain is considered to be a more "light" smoke, a more visual, hallucinatory variety. The indica is more heavily "narcotic," a more sedating smoke, one that makes the body heavy and tired. Both species can be very powerful, though many smokers have a preference towards one type of high over the other. Personally, I find that both states of consciousness have their own time and place.

Alright, to the larger question, what does cannabis feel like? This depends largely on the strain, potency, and amount ingested. Small amounts (or large amounts among a tolerant user or with low grade weed) will produce relaxation and lowered inhibitions. This is a state very conducive to meditation. Increased potency and ingestion can lead to increased intoxification. This can include a very disinhibited sensibility and a much lighter take on life (everything becomes funny!). Increased hunger is often a side effect (the munchies), this is one reason marijuana is favored among cancer patients. There is a degree of analgesia that accompanies marijuana use. As you get to higher doses, reality becomes completely sublime. Conversation flows like water, and EVERYTHING takes on an increased sense of profundity. Sometimes you will forget what you were trying to say, but it doesn't matter. Life if lived in the moment. You open up like a flower blossoming in sunlight, inhibitions melt to a great degree, and you are peaceful and content. At worst, you consume too many calories and fall asleep. You don't knick or crave the high to the point of going out and robbing convenience stores. At the best levels, hallucinations can ensue, but these are generally closed-eye visuals and subtle distortions of sound. The hallucinations are nothing on par with psychadelics, but you get VERY creative. The desire to write or create is very strong.

That said, sometimes the desire to create is overpowered by the lethargy that can accompany marijuana use. Oftentimes, the perception of creativity and profundity is lost upon being sober. As an experienced user, I can take away from the intoxication more than others...For that matter, it has altered my perception to the point where I am a much less rage-driven individual. I am much more mellow nowadays. But cannabis does not come without its downside. First and foremost is the cost and legality. Factor that out, and you still often end up with cottonmouth. And paranoia. Paranoia is a possibility for anyone, though some seem more prone to it than others...I find that I myself am a more paranoid person than many...This has caused me anxiety over the years, but it has also saved my ass several times. :)

Drugs are neutral all in all...Once upon a time I LOVED doing some cocaine and being fucked from behind. The feeling was glorious, and I sometimes masturbated with a dildo while doing coke. That said, eventually it turned on me. If I did cocaine nowadays, I couldn't even get an erection, much less come. Ce la vie...

Regarding sex partners, I've just always found the rush of an orgasm to be too fleeting in comparison to drugs. I liken it to a hit of crack. You get high real fast and then you get let down real fast, at least in my experience. Personally, I find opium to be one of the single most intimate substances on earth...I lose my inhibitions and become sedated in a delicious way. I might become sexual, I might not. Ultimately, sex matters very little against the backdrop of intimacy that I can experience under the influence of opium. :) And due to my own beliefs, I personally feel that drugs give us insight into things far greater than what sex gives us insight into. It's the difference of the second chakra versus the seventh.

Alright, for the benefit of Sesame...

I will share a few experiences as best I can. I will try to be brief...Obviously, you could fill a whole catalogue with my pot-smoking years if you cared to. Instead, I will tell you about my first time, one of my craziest times, and an alternate route of ingestion that I fell in love with.

The first time I ever smoked pot was back in my college days. I had read about drugs via a rockstar autobiography and was convinced that I wanted to try EVERY drug possible, including the hardest drugs that scare most people off. Well, I was with a good friend who tried to persuade me that it would be okay to smoke pot, but that I shouldn't EVER try coke, acid, heroin, etc. As a result of his convictions, he attempted to procure some pot to satiate my desires. We were at a fraternity house at Georgia Tech and he ended up finding one of his fraternity brothers who smoked. We passed around a bowl and I inhaled the divine fumes. Eventually we stopped and I began to feel it setting in. We ended up sitting in the kitchen of the frat house and my friend made me a grilled cheese sandwich which tasted absolutely HEAVENLY! I had this tingling in my head, and I asked my friend about it. He said that everytime I felt a tingle, it was the explosion of some brain cells dying a violent, horrible death. :) That fucked with me a bit...But it never slowed me down...

I continued to party that night, and drank pretty heavily. The last thing I remember of the frat house was having a seventh shot of rum in some dimly lit room and then excusing myself to use the restroom. I went to the restroom, but for whatever reason, I decided to go for a walk. Instead of going back to my friend, I just began walking. I ended up walking a few miles into downtown Atlanta. At one point, a gentlemen in an SUV propositioned me for giving him a blow job and that got me scared. THAT is where the paranoia kicked in. I began to get truly scared and I realized that I had absolutely no idea where I was. At some point, I got tired and turned down some back alley way. I decided that it would be a good idea to lay down and get some shut-eye for a few minutes. Thus, I passed out in this alley for...an hour? two hours? I honestly have no idea how long I was out, I just know that I woke up and was astounded that I had fallen asleep on the road as I had done.

From there, I began to walk again...I ended up walking to this hotel, and ended up ducking behind a car because I was SO paranoid the cops were watching me. I was utterly convinced that the police were onto me, and I geeked out for awhile. Eventually, I went into this hotel lobby and laid down on a couch. The manager came over to me soon enough and spoke with me. This is where God was watching over me...

Instead of kicking me out, the manager said that he couldn't let me lay on the couch, but that if I sat up and pretended to be cool, he wouldn't have a problem letting me sit and sober up. I was so thankful. I sat there for what seemed like a few hours, just staring at paintings in the lobby. Eventually, I came to enough to where I went over to the desk. The shift had changed. I asked the attendants where the Georgia Tech campus was? They informed me that it was a few miles in a given direction and pointed me along my way. I followed their directions and eventually made it back to my friend sometime that next morning, roughly at 9:00 AM.

Obviously, my friend was rather distressed with my whereabouts. The average person would have probably interpretted a night like this to be a sign that they should NEVER do drugs or drink again. Instead, I felt like I had been on an incredible journey...Much like Moses wandering in the desert...And I vowed that I would explore drugs as much as possible because I felt a purpose in them, a purpose to my journey...

OK, that was a bit long...Next post will describe other experiences...

The last time I went to the Himalayas (Its heaven on earth), a Holy man showed me a herb. He used it in his tea everytime. It was not narcotic but had a tremendous boosting effect and cured fever. I took a small sample of that plant and showed it to all Ayurveda stores around the place. All shopowners turned out to be ignorant simpletons when it came to plant identification. (This shows the deplorable state of the science of Ayurveda in the country of it's origin) Luckily one doctor(vaid)identified it. I went to the nearest village and collected a heap of it from a local. I brought it home. Unfortunately all the plants were dead and dry by then. But surprisingly, after so many years, they work perfectly. :D

Alright, if you've followed this post, you might recall my reference to my best friend who was into yoga and meditation? At any rate, the first time I ever smoked with him was VERY messed up. He had this huge water bong that he had fashioned out of a chemistry flask. We ended up smoking incredible amounts of weed...He was a mad man. He just kept putting pot on the bowl and we just kept smoking. He could smoke most people under the table. Eventually he gave out, and handed me the bag and said "Help yourself to whatever you want."

Now, being new to the culture and not entirely aware of the etiquette, I took this quite literally. I continued to pile weed onto the bowl. I smoked and I smoked...

Then I went into the common room and my friend was playing the piano like a psycho. I had been warned that he would play the piana...I had also been warned that he would ask me to play the harmonica. Sure enough, he asks me to play the harmonica with him. At this point, I got paranoid. I was convinced that both he and his wife made a cruel game out of this...They'd invite people over, get them good and stoned, and then get them to play the harmonica just so they could laugh at them. I resolved that I would NOT be prey to their game. I ended up hiding under a Douglas Fir tree that they had in their living room. Eventually, I slinked into the bathroom and locked myself in this room for several hours. Inside the bathroom was a radio playing NPR and Salvador Dali's "Hallucinogenic Torador" painting. What a trippy painting...(Google it if you need reference!)...

I eventually calmed down enough to leave the bathroom...Around 4:00 AM, and my friend and wife had coffee brewing and were watching television. Who has coffee going at 4:00 AM after being up all night??? I happily had a cup and apologized for my paranoia. Who could have guessed that these people would become my favorite people on the planet?

-------------------------------

Final story, smoking produces a fairly immediate reaction, at least within a few minutes. However, the oral ingestion of marijuana can lead to VERY intense effects, though they are slower in onset. I ended up brewing what is referred to as "Green Dragon." This is an alcoholic tincture of marijuana...

You take marijuana and boil it in a solution of alcohol (use a double boiler for safety!). You strain out the alcohol and consume. The beauty of green dragon is that it gets the THC into your system MUCH faster than other oral routes (like brownies). The Green Dragon is consumed, and I must add, it is HIGHLY alcoholic...We always used Golden Grain (99% alcohol). Upon consumption, you first feel the glow of the liquor. But that liquor glow eventually melts into a VERY strong stoning. By about one hour in, I have felt like I have been smoking pot for 8 consecutive hours.

On Green Dragon, I have seen people vomit green all over the floor and loose ALL coherence and sense of where they are. One person ended up talking like Sister Cleo for several hours and had absolutely no idea who they were or where they were. Powerful stuff, it really sneaks up on you. :)

Sesame, do you know the name of the herb???

In defense of people (though not TOO much of a defense...), dried herbs and plants can be difficult to distinguish from the fresh forms.

Of course, I know the name and many properties of that herb, and many others that grow in different regions of Himalayas ...and some forests of Maharashtra.:p But I dont want to post them here or anywhere else. The next thing I will see is a patent on that herb and some stupid multinational owning it. Even the Army posted in the mountains have started to guard damn blades of grass (!!!) most jealously!.
I like to gather information on beneficial herbs. Its my hobby. ;)

Well, I believe you but thousands wouldn't :-)

...I believe it. To be intimate with somebody is a matter of the heart, or the mind really. Sex pertains to the flesh and bone body.:yes:


Drugs actually doesnt give us anything. We just acquire the ability to remain conscious in an unexplored state of mind. Drug, Meditation or Discipline can only act as a vehicle.

Shmoking weed
shmoking wizz
doin cocke
drinkin beers beers beers
Rollin fatties
Shmoking blunts
who rolls the blunt
we roll the blunts
and who smokes the blunts
we smoke the blunts

Alright Sesame, that said, I rescind my previous statement. :) For me PERSONALLY, drugs have brought about much more revolutionary processes of mind than sex has ever accomplished...That said, sex CAN be a vehicle of awareness too, though it seldom is in our culture (thus my own, precursory conclusion that is perhaps unfounded!). Tantric sex is said to be a means of eliciting the divine...This is an area of interest, but again, my own disposition has always been drawn towards neuropharmacology as opposed to reproductive rituals.

From the discussion going on between GRH and Sesame I think there is a potential here to start at least 2 more threads. One on dreams and one on meditation as both GRH and Sesame have quite an interesting viewpoint and some interesting comments on these 2 subjects already.:respect:

Ila, we could start two threads, or for that matter, two separate forums on the topics. :) Dreams and meditation are very interesting and deep topics for me...I could write a book on some of my for what it is worth. Thanks for your interest.

Amazing, ... and incredibly funny. Could you tell us more? You provide us with such an interesting reading! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you,
Un-put-down-able.:respect:

I can elaborate on that story a bit more...:)

My friend only played about three songs worth on the piano, I don't know if he knew more than that or not. Regardless, he played the same little tunes all the time, a combination of chords that he came up with. He would mesh in and out of these songs in a never-ending loop, all while playing the harmonica. That first night, something about the incessant piano playing reminded me of Nazi music (whatever that sounds like). I got it in my head that he and his wife were something akin to Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun, and it was their evil Nazi plot to indoctrinate me with the music so that I would eventually play music...And in doing such, I would make a fool of myself...Thus their Nazi ambitions would be realized.

Oh yes, I nearly left out another interesting thing from that evening. "Bodywork!" My friend, hell, I'll just call him by name...Michael. At any rate, Michael was very much into yoga and the concept of the body operating as a system. He was into this progressive relaxation/stretching regime that he called bodywork...He used to be a coach, and he would use it to rehabilitate athletes, stretch them out, increase their flexibility, etc. At any rate, when you're stoned and paranoid, the last thing in the world that you want is somebody offering to "work" on you, particularly if that involves them touching you in bizzarre ways.

Yes, I was F*CKED up. :yes: It's funny, because I would give just about anything to be able to play music now, it's been a few years since Michael passed away. It's ironic how petrified I was of him that first night, because he became my single greatest friend...I've never loved another man as much as I loved him. I guess it's fitting that I reveal his name, because if I continue to develop the discussion on drugs (and through that, revealing my own adventures), he plays an integral part for me. Don't worry Sesame, more stories and analysis is on the way...

Solution to problems
 

Problem solving with Meditation only, No Drugs.

Solution to problems:

In terms of meditation....(can I call it mental discipline?) say, I am trying to focus on one subject. I may directly enter a different state of mind where all else vanishes except the thing I am curious about. Actually I think we already know the answer to everything. We dont usually find the key due to mental clutter. When the turbid waters of the mind recede, the thing that remains is the truth. There is an all-knowing, calm part in our mind; and also a part which is afraid, weak and jealous. We become weak, possessive and obsessed when the weaker part of the mind is playing the upper hand. We win, love life and enjoy a carefree mood when the wise part of the mind is in control.

Creative Slumber
So it should be our endeavour that we spend more time in the wise part of the mind and not let the weak mind dominate our mood. Always be positive and jolly. Anyway, it is very common to feel a drowsiness take over when one attempts to meditate regularly. But even this sleep is good for us. I have often come up with solutions from dreams or visions in this kind of half dazed state. The problems which were bugging me, yet I couldnt crack them in my waking state, were solved in dreams. Many scientists, musicians, artists come up with brilliant ideas in their dreams. I think there is a reservoir of solutions in that state which lies between waking state and regular REM dreaming state. And this can easily be tapped during meditation. When one dozes off while sitting in meditation, his mind still remains conscious and focused. Some degree of awareness and control is necessary to bring back the memory intact to the waking state.

Come on, guys... instead of all this talk, shouldn't you really as true ladyboy lovers join me in the ever-on-going pursuit of the sweet darlings (in a wonderful way, obviously)? Here I am, charming the ladies the best I've learned, and you just sit here discussing the wonders of LSD... :turnoff:

In the end (pun intended) that's the biggest high you'll get! When you finally find her, touch her, feel her, kiss her and all the emotions you've had for so long inside explode in a symphony of "THIS IS JUST SO RIGHT! I LOVE HER! I LOVE HER! I LOVE HER!

Go find her, gentlemen! Even in the immensely boring West the little Goddesses are around! You just need to lure them out of their hiding. And they'll love you for it! Trust me on that one...

So no more talkin', talkin', talkin' - time for phase two: charmin', charmin', charmin'!

You're ready!

Peace and best wishes (just imagine Goddess B sitting alone at home dreaming of a gentleman who knows more than a bit about NOT bringing his date to Burger King). Sesame, my sweet friend, the holiday is over! Go get her ;-)

:respect:

H

Correction, my friend; I am not discussing the wonders of LSD. Read my posts first.
I am talking about meditation
I am also very curious about the states of mind...
GRH here has many stories to tell about her curious adventures and I would like to hear them.
I am not supporting or encouraging use of drugs.
Its her own life and she can do whatever she pleases with it. She is an adult and responsible person. I am only curious about her experiences in altered state. Do you or anybody has any objection to our discussion?
We are not selling the stuff here, only discussing it!

Statutory Warning against Drug Addiction
 

Great Snakes! Are you kidding? That means you are slowly killing your brain! Therefore, I should warn you as a friend...
Meditation is painful in the beginning but infinitely helpful to Life. And DrugUse is blissful at start but Fatally harmful to life.

I don't think being stoned makes you more productive in truth. But many people will make claims such as that. What I DO think cannabis can do is make you more inclined to be productive in ways that you might not be inclined while sober. For instance, the desire to be creative and make music, to draw, to paint, to write. These are all activities that I seldom engage in, but reefer seems to bring them out of me. Other drugs can boost productivity because of a stimulant action, though...Ranging from coffee to coca to hard speed, the latter being nasty stuff that does more damage than good.

For all the stupor, that is one of the more difficult things about drugs. Retention and integration. Here I will generalize beyond simple cannabis and will include psychadelics and dissociatives. The experience is prone to being forgotten, and what IS remembered has to be integrated in a meaningful way. This assumes that you seek to get to the bottom of the rabbit hole and are not merely attempting to "get fucked up." Integration isn't easy, but probably more so than what any single memory could capture, the psychadelic consciousness is sort of like meditation-- expansive. As meditation unlocks doors of the mind, so too do drugs cast open the doors of perception. Perception is remolded and the experience remains emblematic of different and higher ways of thinking, perceiving, and living. In this context, the larger framework of the experience as a whole is more profound than singular memories that arise from it.

And Hank, we haven't even gotten to LSD yet, patience my friend. :) But as Sesame said, we're all big girls and boys around here...And our discussion shouldn't offend anyone, especially given that it's just that. An exchange of ideas and not of narcotics. Ultimately, ideas are far more dangerous. :yes:

LOL, my friend! My friend is far from a brain scientist, he told me that just to fuck with me. As far as I know, marijuana doesn't have any harmful neurodegenerative effect. The same can't be said for all drugs though, alcohol among them. But to the larger issue at hand, drugs ARE in fact a Pandora's Box of sorts...With great pleasure comes the potential for great pain.

My point is, if your mind is foggy, and your bliss vanishes when you sober up, you have nothing! No memories, some horrid experiences (like Carlos Castaneda saw himself getting eaten by a monster, in a drug induced state) and a shaken CNS (central nervous system): how does it help someone to become creative?

David Hume used it though!:p

I think you should start a thread, right away, on meditation. Both you and Sesame have a very good "conversation" going on this topic already.:respect: I've never tried meditating so I have been reading your posts about it trying to gain more insight into it.

Strong Substance #2: Coffee
 

I love coffee, with milk in the morning and black through the day. I got into coffee in Java, cups of wonderful black stew. Then time in Italy confirmed the addiction. I'm very fond of a shot of espresso every so often to keep things going. I get a bit wonky if I overdo it, eyes pinned back and a sort of throbbing sensation in the head. I have to be careful now later in the day or I never sleep.

I love the scene in the film "Wings of Desire" with Peter Falk (a fallen angel) and Bruno Ganz (an angel). They're standing at a kiosk and Falk is drinking coffee and smoking. Falk tells Ganz about the pleasures of being human and he says you can't imagine how good a cup of coffee and a cigarette is. When Ganz decides to be human the first thing he does is return to the kiosk and try coffee and a cigarette. A look of delight spreads on his face. Later he discovers love and kissing and other things; it's tough being human but it's better than being an angel.

Mmm..... coffee :) I think I'll have another cup now.

Reading this made me go make myself some cappuccino! Yummy

Done

But I would request GRH to go on with her astounding adventures in induced state. I find those experiences absolutely genuine, very personal and fascinating.

To GRH
 

Go on with your adventures and strange experiences in elated state. I and a host of other people are eagerly waiting for your fabulous stories. As for me, I am interested in your feelings, your fears, your perceptions, visions in such states. What did you see or feel? Also, the external events you described about when you walked several miles from ur campus and got to a hotel lobby...totally enthralling.

Is anyone here a winemaker? I think wine made directly from fruits like plum, grapes, Blackberry, Elderberry, Raspberry, Loganberry, Stoneberry, Blackcurrant, Cherry, etc can be really matured for 30 to 50 years. They make real old wine.
While wine created from kits or grape extract last just about 2-3 years... they make light white wine.

The mind is not always foggy, nor are all memories gone, nor is the bliss. I have never had a "bad" trip. I have had MANY difficult trips. Difficult trips represent my own fears, anxieties, and hangups. These can become manifested in very frightening imagery, but I feel there is an opportunity to learn from ALL of these states of consciousness. I probably have a different perspective than many on this topic. I hold a more shamanistic view and I believe that some of what is seen is in fact true, if only on a Jungian level. Tapping into this other world allows us many great feats...The ability of time travel, the ability to interact with spirits, the ability to see reality with our normal filters removed.

As to becoming creative, I have written some of my greatest poetry under the influence...That is something I do not care to share right now. But beyond poetry, it is this altered state of consciousness which FUNDAMENTALLY changed the way that I look at the world, the way I perceive myself, and the way I perceive God. Some of these profundities arose because of a VERY difficult trip, yet that one experience remains to me, one of the single most profound and spiritual experiences of my life. (Don't worry, we can get to it eventually :) ).

Dissociatives...
 

Onward! To another class of psychoactives!

If there are no further questions on cannabis deriviatives specifically, I would like to move onto a new category of chemicals, this being the dissociative class. Dissociatives are sometimes considered psychadelics, but they are very unique from typical tryptamine and phenethylamine psychadelics. Classic psychadelics (LSD, DMT, Mescaline, Ecstacy, etc.) operate on what is pressumed to largely involve serotonin channels (if someone has more questions, I can look up more detailed info on the biochemistry). Point being, these psychadelics usually lead to a sense of "sensory overload." Some have described a classic psychadelic as removing the filter which helps limit what sensory inputs we experience. Thus under the influence of LSD, etc. a person may experience bizarre colors, auditory distortions, tactile sensations, and at the best...Complete ego dissolution. The classic psychadelics are said to be the "light, life affirming" side of the psychoactive spectrum.

Here is where dissociatives drastically differ. They are sometimes called the "dark side" of the spectrum. Dissociatives can lead to at some early stages to relaxation and then to a weird sense of being stoned. At higher levels, vision can become distorted or doubled, and complete ego dissolution is also possible accompanied by hallucinations, etc. However, the hallucinations are not guided by sensory input. Dissociatives lead to sensory shutdown. The ego becomes dissociated from the body. The vessel becomes very numb and the senses become useless. When this sensory shutdown accompanies ego dissolution, many become terrified. The experience is as if one has died. Therefore, dissociatives are credited with producing "near death" and "out of body" experiences.

Dissociatives have clinical uses in anethesia and veterinary medicine. Probably the most famous dissociative is PCP...This is a drug that I have tried to find for many years with no success. It is often presented as a liquid into which marijuana cigarettes are dipped. This practice sometimes leads a pot smoker to freak out because they have laced weed. In reality, this is VERY rare in today's market...PCP is very rare, I'm surprised they still include it on a NIDA-5 drug test. I used to joke that, "Maybe one day, I'd be lucky enough to find an unscrupulous dealer who would sell me some pot laced with PCP." LOL, I was never that lucky. ;)

A lot of the press regarding PCP is typical extremist propaganda. Generally, people under its influence were quite peaceful, it were those few bad apples that acted violently or incredibly stupidly that gave PCP a bad rep. I have heard anecdoctal evidence that PCP is a "psychadelic chainsaw" that is capable of transporting you to completely different worlds.

That said, what dissociative drugs do I have more direct knowledge of? Well, there is Ketamine, a verterinary and human anasthetic. Then there is Tiletamine, a veterinary anesthetic. There is Dextomethorphan HCL. Then there is Salvinorin A. To go into all these, that will take another post and some more time... :)

Ketamine and Tiletamine are both veterinary anesthetics, though the former is also approved for human use, particularly among burn victims. I'm not sure why its anesthesia is preferable in this class of patient. They are typically used as a liquid for injection, but among the using class, the vials can be emptied, the liquid evaporated, and the precipitate insulfated. Alternatively, you can sometimes score a vial prior to dilution, in which case you don't have to go through the pains of evaporation. And in even another alternative, if you are not phobic of needles and injectable drugs, you can always inject the solution.

Ketamine's biggest claim to fame was use by Jim Lily, a 1960's scientist who injected a lot of ketamine and also dappled with sensory deprivation. He supposedly developed these elaborate theories regarding dolphin communication under the influence-- to be honest, I don't know if his ideas hold up under modern scrutiny, but he was quite the pioneer, if a bit eccentric.

To be honest, neither of these drugs do I have a huge impression of. Ketamine intoxification has a stage called the "K-Hole." This represents that dividing line between being somewhat messed up and being completely dissociated from one's self. Personally, I find it peaceful and enjoyable. Some have freaked out...For a pop culture reference, Marilyn Manson penned a song titled "Dissociative" on his album "Mechanical Animals." My take is that he pretty much freaked out, assuming the song was inspired by ketamine, as he claims. The lyrics go, "I can never get out of here...I don't want to explode in fear...Dead astronaut in space..." While those sentiments do capture the feeling to some extent, they really represent the panic side of the spectrum. Again, this is not atypical, I guess I'm just more at peace leaving my body behind.

Tiletamine is registered ONLY for veterinary use, but those of us creative enough to see the structural similarities among drugs, and brave enough to venture where few have gone before, have sampled this substance. The trademark name is technically a combination of a dissociative and a benzodiazepine. This benzodiazepine is what scares me, because I don't have tons of experience with them, and they can, in the wrong combination, be fatal if taken to excess. Thus my dapplings with tiletamine were always done with caution. Anecdoctal reports that I have read suggest that IV use of this drug can be VERY powerful, moreso than ketamine, but I was much too paranoid to venture into this realm blindly.

I must say, it seems I am a Tiletamine hard-head of sorts. I could cut several lines of the stuff and feel pretty good. I would go into a numb, relaxed state and would usually drift off to sleep eventually. I sampled a few vials over the years and shared with some friends...EVERY friend who ever tried it with me had a MUCH more severe reaction than me. All participants insulfated a line or took the equivalent of a small oral dose. The few that tried it with me almost invariably got INCREDIBLY messed up. Many ended up completely stupid, muttering jibberish, tripping over themselves, etc. In all cases, I had to remind the people what we had done the night before and tell them that yes, they had taken some drugs, and yes, they had gotten really messed up. One guy ended up staying with me in a hotel miles away from where he started because there was no way he was going to make it home. I don't think he had any recollection of getting there, no recollection of throwing up in my car, etc. It's odd the physiological differences between us...Why two overweight men should react so much more profoundly than me, maybe it speaks to my own junkie disposition. At the minimum, it should suggest EXTREME caution if ever trying a substance, you never know how your body will react...Not necessarily how your friend's body reacts.

what kind of drug she use

i do mutch drug i like to smoke weed evry day

but its legal in dutch :D

i love mary jane:D

Pease explain in layman's terms:
1) complete ego dissolution
2) sensory shutdown
3) near death

Are you saying that out of the body and death are analogous?

#hallucinations are not guided by sensory input
I would like to point out here, that we see lucid dreams every night. Those visions are not sensory either. The mind or brain (?) shows it to us. In Dreams, We see colourful things, hear various sounds, stray words... feel the sense of touch, taste things, even smell fragrances! But we Do Not actually receive the stimuli through our sense organs (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, skin).


#vessel becomes very numb and the senses become useless
This also happens in deep meditation... where only consciousness remains... the feeling that "I AM" or "I EXIST" is only there. No memory that I am Mr. X, I look like that, I am of such and such profession, I am a king or a begger... no such egoistic feeling remain with us. Only the concentrated feeling of existence is there. One doesnt even feel the body any more. Yet this feeling is many times more powerful than the distracted consciousness we feel in our day to day life.
Would you consider such a sensation as Near Death?

1) Sesame, I found an interesting read for you...It's just the first article on the page. I don't know who writes it, but it seems to come from an Eastern perspective and not a drug one. That said, the man's description of ego dissolution largely matches my own:

http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2...its_dis_1.html

Complete ego dissolution is rare for me. Personally, I consider it to be that state where every conception of self breaks down-- where I cease to wonder "where am I?" or "who am I?" but I begin to wonder "what am I?" and eventually the "I" leaves the equation entirely. It's like kissing God in my estimation.

2) Sensory shutdown is a sort of relative term, and used more to describe dissociatives against the much more popular pschadelics. As pscyhadelics can be enhanced by sensory input, dissociatives largely ignore it. That said, you can "surface" even from the depths of dissociation and get fragments from the senses. In a future post, I will hope to make this explanation more clear through a personal description. All things considered, LOTS of our states of consciousness do not rely on sensory input, dreams included.

3) "Near death" is framework that some people have chosen to describe these frames of consciousness. That is not to say that people were necessarily close to dying, but they perceived this state of consciousness this way. For instance, as people lose touch with their bodies, they may not be able to tell that they are still breathing. Some people panic, some do not. But many interpret this frame of consciousness as feeling like a symbolic death of sorts. I think this is a useful framework to view the altered state in, but I suppose my own analytical nature coupled with my education of chemicals and their effect has always kept me from feeling "near death." I am an explorer, and I wish to push my consciousness to the very brink, thus I seek the highest doses I can without getting into lethal territory.

That said, I wouldn't call the meditative state "near death" anymore than I would the dissociative. I might say that the term "near death" could be an applicable framework for viewing either state of consciousness in. However, the primary difference is how one arrives at it. Meditation takes years of work. A dissociative can take you there on the first try. Perhaps this is why psychonauts have adapted the term "near death" to describe their sometimes paniced experiences whereas meditating gurus have not.

Please do that. You are not among fellow chemists. We can only learn from your personal experiences.

Thats impossible for ordinary human beings.Consider this, in drug induced state, only the reasoning of the mind and some sensory data processing centres, some memories are inhibited. So the person cant remember "who I am"... or, "where am I"... its like waking up in a dark room.

But the questions here are:
1) does he also forget of being human?
2) does he also forget of ever having a body?
3) If the Ego is dissolved, then who is asking the questions?
4) And to whom?
5) If there is no ego or previous memory, then where from comes the concept of "who" (=identity), where (=place), I am (=existence), when (=time) and finally, I (=ego)
Without any ego, there is no such thing as I, we, here, AND you, there, this or that. With an ego, there arises a feeling of separation from the rest of the universe. Me (I) and the rest of the world.
The bubble of I-ness or ego differentiates me from the outer world.

Even though I support Vedanta theory, I support the I-ness theory of Yoga and stand aside from Vedanta in the final stage. I dont want to be dissolved or annihilated into the Infinite. I wish to retain my separate identity. But... we can discuss about that at a later stage.

At its purest, ego dissolution negates the concept of "human" and "body" alike. Even the premise of asking questions becomes silly. You become the question, and you become the answer simultaneously. You become all that ever was, is, and is to be. "You" (in the formal sense") simply ARE...Simply EXISTING.

Here we will diverge, as the final implications of Vedanta I hold close and have experienced. This is where I have gotten into conflict with much Western religion, that perptetual attachment to identity. I think many come close, but they wish to deny the final truth, out of their own selfish desire to retain that fundamental sense of ego...That fundamental sense of being something "special" and "separate." That said, it is a nice attachment to cling to, and I fault nobody for it. But I'm not convinced that "I" in the sense that I currently perceive myself to be will ever exist beyond this moment. The remainder of this philosophical discussion would probably be better suited to your meditation thread, Sesame. :)

Done, go see it.

Tell me about your experience.:yes:

Alright Sesame, I much appreciate your response! I promise that I will respond and also share some of my own bizarre, non-drug-induced dreams soon. :) That said, in the interest of advancing our drug discussion here, and your own interest in my personal experiences, I think I will cover Salvinorin A next.

Salvinorin A is the active constituent of Salvia divinorum, a member of the sage/mint family. The plant is native to the Oaxaca region of Mexico and has been used in divination rituals and what not for many hundreds of years. It was recently discovered (within the past several years) that Salvinorin A is actually a dissociative pharmacologically speaking, but its mechanism for action is quite distinct from the other drugs discussed thus far...

Salvia (as an herb) is generally ingested in one of two forms. It can be smoked, either in the pure form, or in a concentrated extract (which intensifies concentrations of Salvinorin A). It can also be chewed as a quid and absorbed sublinguillaly. The smoked route is a faster and more intense means of onset; the oral route is slower in onset and requires more initial starting material, but can lead to an equally profound and longer lasting experience.

The majority (but far from all) of my experience with this substance comes from using various preparations of extract that are smoked, though I have dappled with the oral mode of delivery. When smoking, the drug requires a unique technique...You need to apply as much heat as possible for as long as possible. And you need to hold the smoke in as long as possible. Vaporized Salvinorin A is not highly soluble, nor is it readily vaporized...This is why intense heat is required to make it smokeable. It's not the most pleasant of smokes... Perhaps it is best to start with my very first trial run...

Once upon a time, I had a potent 30x extract and was at the beach. It was nighttime (roughly 11 PM) and there wasn't a car in sight. I put some Salvia atop a pipe and smoked it as described above. I began to feel this incredible head rush and got this sudden compulsion to get out of the car and explore. I was very stupid then. :) At any rate, I left my vehicle and went shoreside. Along the beach, anywhere I walked I could see glowing footprints. I could trace my name or a picture in the sand and see a glowing trail of where I painted. It turns out, this night was blessed with one of a few, rare diatomic tides that come to the area. But I knew nothing of that under the influence, in fact, I didn't know if the "glowing" was me hallucinating or not. It took me awhile (and a sober perspective) to eventually piece everything together in a logical fashion...It just so happens that some diatoms will "glow" when agitated...And I had the fortune of coming upon them while incredibly high...

That said, I realized that the uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuukkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk jokkkkkkkkkkkkiooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 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??????????
 

??????????? I hope this is not the result of a bad drug induced experience!

LMAO, :) ! That's atypical for me. Despite being tempted to edit my post, I will leave it, because that represents the BAD things drugs can do to you. Let that be an education to anyone tempted to wander into the drug world. The long post of jibberish is the result of nodding off in a blackout. Sometimes it can be brought on by alcohol, sometimes from too much morphine. All in all, not a "bad" drug experience, but not a good one either. What makes this ironic is that I usually drift off and still maintain some coherence. I'll sometimes have some weird posts to find the next morning, but THIS is the worst ever. My memory stops right where my legibility stopped. I remembered talking about Salvia and the beach, and that is where my memory leaves me. I must have passed out at the computer and awoken later...Because I did make it to bed last night and managed to unplug the computer and shut it down.

I will finish my description of Salvia at a later point this weekend, it probably won't be today though because I have a date with destiny which will keep me rather preoccupied for the next 24 hours or so.

Congrats, you are positively screwed up!
You start writing coherently on a topic and suddenly your fuse goes off! Then it cant be that enjoyable after all... whatdoyousay?:p No memory after diatoms, eh? Memory fails after relating the beach episode?

But then, who submitted the post to this forum? Who shutdown the computer and took you to bed? ... ...

Allow me to explain.:yes:
I have often noticed that there is another part of my mind that is also sentient and capable of reacting within a split second. This second part... lets call it, manas, is there simultaneously along with the usual conscious mind. And I am not talking about the subconscious or unconscious mind. This manas is with us even in the waking state. We seem to be in control of the conscious mind. But this manas part can think for itself and is always ready to help us. But the conscious mind supresses it and pretends that it had never existed. The conscious mind holds our memories, our fears, conditioned reflexes, inhibitions and lethargy. Whereas the manas is lightning fast, it doesn't vacillate on a decision, has no fear or inhibition. All athletes, martial artists, people who develop a skill to an automatic state, make use of manas. The action just unfolds itself independent of our reasoning process; this action actually explodes from manas. We surprise ourselves, we become stunned at the display of our own hidden skill! What was that? That was manas, and its the untapped part of you!

As Kungfu legend Bruce Lee once said, "It hits all by itself!"

Psssst! GRH! Hey! Coooeeee!
No ones answering! May be she is in an euphoric state and got her ego completely dissolved! GRH, geeky, pharmacopeia... come ye down to our mortal realm from thine High Abode.

Its been a long time, over 10 years since I've used any kind of mind-altering substance (drugs and alcohol).

I'd much prefer to experience things with a clear head.

Sesame, my apologies, I’ve been quite distracted over the past few days.  At any rate, I haven’t forgotten you or our discussion. Regarding the other evening, I had too much to drink and blacked outâ€"the subsequent days I was on my “throne on Highâ€? and too removed to bother with things such as the internet. Regarding your explanation of “manasâ€? I do not dispute this. Personally, the self is amazing of doing a variety of things even when not conscious. It’s like the individual is capable of going into some sort of survival modeâ€"regarding my own post, I have no memory of the jibberish, much less of turning off the computer or making it to bed. Yet somehow, I did all of these things. Memory is just another temporal expression of larger truth.

To continue where we left off, Salvinorin A requires a very high temperature to be effectively volatilized. Thus, if smoking Salvia, you need to keep a high amount of heat to the herb for as long as possible. Further, the solubility of Salvinorin A is not high within the human, thus it is to your advantage to hold the smoke in as long as possible. In years of working with Salvia in different contexts, I can say that I have reached some conclusions…

It is a dissociative substance, albeit a very powerful one. It takes effect VERY quickly, and the altered state can be quite disconcerting, particularly how quickly it comes on. Salvia does not last long, but the ten minutes (sometimes more, sometimes less) can be terrifying if you don’t know what to expect. I don’t consider it a recreational substance at all. Very few people have a “good� time. In my own experience, I always hear voices. The voices are always the same, more or less. It’s the same type of voice…Always beckoning me towards something deeper. I have experienced this under a variety of circumstances, ranging from full light to total darkness, from completely sober to completely messed up. Music becomes “deconstructed,� in fact, I felt like I could lie down within the music, if that makes any sense. (I doubt it does, that’s the sort of sensation that only comes with having felt it!) Eventually, music loses all meaning. I always felt that the consistency of the voices I heard represented some greater truth…Perhaps this represents “universal consciousness� or some sort of Jungian archetype.

The next dissociative that I would care to explore in depth is DXM, or dextromethorphan HCL. This is the dextro isomer of a molecule; interestingly enough, the levo isomer of the same molecule is a VERY potent opiate. For whatever reason, the dextro isomer lacks the full narcotic set of properties, but is a powerful dissociative. DXM has the potential to cause a unique type of brain damage called Olney’s legions, if done in excess and too often. This said, it’s the sort of substance best used in moderation and with extreme caution.

DXM is unique in that it causes a finite set of stages of intoxication, called “plateaus.� The first level (plateau) produces relaxation and slightly altered vision. The final stage (fourth plateau) produces complete dissociation. The means of dosing is fairly well established on a mg/kg basis. There IS a lethal dose, thus caution should be exercised in dosing. Given my own tendency, I ALWAYS lean towards the highest level possible without dying, so I can’t comment very much on the lower levels of intoxication…

I can say that at the highest levels of dosing, very strange things happen. The whole body becomes numb and sedated. I have drifted off to music at this point. Usually at some point, I end up vomiting, as DXM is somewhat nauseating. (I don’t consider vomiting to be a “bad� thing per say, it is merely a consequence of energy transformation.) At any rate, I have had complete ego dissociation under this substance. To give you an idea of what I mean when I say “sensory shutdown,� let me relate this to you…

At one point I got up and meandered around the house. I bumped into walls, stumbled, tripped, etc. I was told that my eyes were closed some of the time. The thing was, I couldn’t tell the difference between when my eyes were closed versus when they were open. My eyes were useless a good bit of the time, regardless of whether they were open or closed. I was in my own world. My partner got paranoid at one point and put me in a cold bath…I was very hot, and the paranoia was that I might be overheating. During this incident, I would surface every now and then and be like, “WTF am I doing in the bath? Why am I wet???� I would get the answer, then phase out again, only to come to a few minutes later with the same set of questions, very freaked out to be in a bathtub. It was a very interesting state of consciousness.

During this state of consciousness, I experienced a variety of interesting perceptions. I had religious insights and had several “Jesus complex� types of hallucinations involving the crucifixion. I also experienced my “dream house� and had a general feeling of floating. The negative to this state of being is the lack of memory that accompanies the highest levels of being. At the highest levels, there tends to be an amnesiac effect, thus one’s ability to retain memory of the trip is necessarily limited to some degree.

I can guess what this highest level of being is. Its "Deep sleep state". Psychologists are of opinion that dreams stop here, and there is no more REM rapid-eye-movement(which is an aspect of dreaming state). They also say that all functions of the mind stop at the deep sleep state. But Yoga Adepts say that like conscious or dreaming state, which is full of multiple levels of mind vibrations, Deep sleep state is also a kind of mental vibration. But in this state, only one vibration remains. Yogis also say that in Deep sleep, the soul transcends all the 4 sheaths and rests in the Anandamaya Kosha or Blissful sheath, so there is a feeling of euphoria or bliss when we wake up from deep sleep. (Kosha = Sheaths of the soul, as in Panchakosha vivek of Vedanta)

But alas, GRH, its not the highest state of being. In yoga, the highest state is Suddha Sattwa or Purest Good ... total independance or Kaivalya (I like it :respect:); and in Vedanta, which goes to extremes... the highest state is destruction of all sheaths of the soul, until nothing but Attributeless God remains. (not my cup of tea)

Musical High
 

I read and liked your experiences with Saliva, err... Salvia;). About that hearing voices thing, I have so much to say... but I would like to write about that in my meditation thread as that would be more appropriate.

Now, lets rock about that musical experience you talked about. Hmm, In Yoga culture, music is regarded a very high place, as it ensnares the mind and tends to bring it to a focus. One branch of Laya Yoga is all about listening to inner music or the voice of silence as they call it! Nada Yoga! Nada being the music of the soul, that is being incessantly played inside all of us! It ranges from cricket's call to thunder clap, from musical instruments to the sound of giant ocean waves.

Anyway, lets not drift into that now. M-u-s-i-c! When I am half asleep and hear some music being played nearby, I feel as if music is a corporeal substance. It is like a blanket or a gust of hot wind... yes, it has a feeling of warmth which is trying to envelop me. Slowly the music builds up around me or wraps me up like a cocoon. The cocoon begins to vibrate and tries to transport my body and mind to a High, a state of Resonance. A Rapport is like an agreement with the music. One sort of Union or oneness.:hug:

What is in a name?
 

Ok, this is the special formula you requested, Prof. "Higher-and Higher" :D

Let me tell you about some of it's properties.
It's physical appearance is dark red to black.
Its an amino-acid staining Diazo-Dye
Used extensively in forensics to detect
the presence of blood; it turns the proteins in blood into a deep blue-black color. This substance is readily soluble in water and methanol. With picric acid it can be used for the detection of collagen and reticulin.

That said, ;)
the ball is now rolling in your court. Mwahuahuahaha :lol:

I used to cross-dress and smoke crack.

For sex adventures my drug of choice was alcohol.

I used to smoke crack and get fucked from behind...WOW!!! What an experience! I used to love it!. At any rate, eventually the cocaine took over, and my sex drive was killed...

I couldn't even begin to be sexual on cocaine today...It would make me limp faster than images of my grandmother naked... :)

Ditto
Health and Fitness (if you can find it)

I was in my teens in the 60's and saw too many other kids nodding off in school class. At that time I came to the conclusion that drugs were a sucker bet. I happily stayed away from all of it. I did used to drink beer,but stopped that about 25 years ago after a particularly bad hangover. Many of the people that I knew then now have prsion records and health issues, heart , lungs liver etc.Also mental health issues. It is best for anyone to stay away from substance abuse of any kind.

:lol:

Does drug has anything to do with sexuality?:eek:

Petition To GRH
 

We wanna wanna wannna wanna hear your experiences!:yes:(fan style)

Please oh, pleeeeease!:rolleyes: (sweet girl style)

When the fug are you goin to speak up, dammit!(impatient drunkard style)

Citizens of Trans City, may I have your attention please,
I present you Geeeee ARrrrrrrr Eich!(You're on stage!)
carnival style;)

Ho ho ho, Let it snow, let it flow, let it go...
Its Christmas time! Tis' the hour of charity...
(Santa style):rolleyes:

We implore thee, reveal before us brethren...
Your holy mystic visions... and open for us...
the door to sanctuary!
Mormon style

Oh C'mon, GRH, dont make us suffer...
We like you and your stories.
Open your treasure chest now.
my style

Sesame...

Patience my friend. My love affair with cocaine could take volumes of posts...Soon enough...We should first cover the beauty of other psychadelics like LSD, Mescaline, DMT, etc. There's probably some other miscellaneous drugs to be thrown in too. But soon enough, we WILL get to that bitch called cocaine. It's a very personal relationship for me, so don't rush it...We will all get a view of the degeneracy of addiction soon enough... :)

Drug Induced Blank
 

GRH, have you ever experienced a total blackout?
Like you dont have so many hours or days of total blank?
These hours are unaccounted for, you have no memory or knowledge of what you did during that period. It can be that you were sleeping like a baby; or it may so happen that your friend or neighbour tells you what miracles you have been performing during those happy moments. ;)

Absolutely, and many times. It is one of the scarier aspects of heavy drinking for me. Some people don't seem to suffer from them, but I'm not that person. I used to never have them, but when I began practicing blow jobs on the end of half-gallons, they became a new means of being conscious for me. (Or lack thereof perhaps.)

Generally I black out and come to having been asleep somewhere, usually having had a pretty docile evening. But I have been known to get aggressive, bitter, or self-loathing. Some of my darker days in life have been those instances where I have to be told what I did the night before. My darkest days are my own-- not something I share with just anyone. But to give you an idea of the type of insanity that I don't mind sharing, one night I called a friend and was apparently babbling on these suicidal and homicidal notions. I ended up passing out during the conversation, in the process, knocking over some plants and dropping the phone, but leaving it off the hook. So when the friend tried to call back, she couldn't get through and assumed I had killed myself. This took place in my basement. I came to the next morning on the second story of my home. I had no memory of the conversation, no memory of even calling her, much less of passing out in the basement, and eventually making it upstairs. Crazy times...

I promise that I haven't been ignoring you or the topic Sesame, I've just been lacking in the proper motivation the past couple of days. I've been sick and not feeling completely 100 percent.

Get well
 

Bah! What a nice friend you have got there! She assumes you to be committing suicide and doesn't call 911 or care to help you in any way!:no:

Regarding these blank spaces in memory... its really scary... or may be not... just weird! How can blank spaces be a part of life? I consider consciousness to be the foremost sign of life. You must have drifted off to deep sleep state during such moments. But how you got back upstairs, I cant tell. Perhaps you forget them like people forget their dreams most of the time.

GRH, my dear, take good care of your health. You know what people say? Health is wealth. And thats absolutely true. I think physical well being is a projection of a healthy mind. So, take very good care of yourself.:hug:

Heal my friend, be good.
Be up and running, dont brood.
Shine on us with your smile.
Not sorrow, but Joy is your style.
Be with us Gwen, all the while.
:hug::p