I'm sorry, I just can't take the babbling of Retard-icans seriously.

[QUOTE=TracyCoxx;139349]Libertarians believe that you actually have to have a balanced budget. We don't have a balanced budget, therefore WE CANNOT AFFORD NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE! Is that so hard to understand? That you have to pay for these services? If it's not evil corporations paying for it, then it's the government paying for it. Either way the money comes from us, or as the democrats, progressives and socialists would like - from China. Libertarians have the audacity to say we have to pay for our own lifestyle. If we didn't have a debt and had positive money flow, then yeah, national health care would be affordable. But right now our country is broke and we have to get spending under control.QUOTE]

TRACY:

So, you were against The Iraq War, right?

We could not pay for it!!

TAL

Listening to Tracy quote Fox News is like listening to Sarah Connor explain how the Terminator came back from the future to destroy all Mankind.

Egads! Someone here actually reads the Constitution!

I was against it for the reasons given. I don't know if those are the real reasons though. I expected Iran to be attacked after Afghanistan. But I could see the logic in invading Iraq next. The stated goal was to attack countries who harbored terrorists. This had a lot of support from Americans at the time. The three main countries in the area that harbored terrorists were Iran, Iraq, and Syria. If we had Afghanistan, then if we took control of Iraq we would have access to Iran from two sides, and Iraq also borders Syria. If that was the reason for attacking Iraq, then I supported it. Either way, we did get Saddam.

If it was for getting non-existent WMD that did not threaten national security, so in that case, no I wouldn't support the Iraq war. If it was part of the war on terrorists, then yes I would support it because protecting national security is not discretionary spending.

I am not quoting fox news. And the budget stuff is very rudimentary. Fox didn't invent the concept of a budget. Maybe you should start quoting sources - preferably reliable sources. You're not doing too well with facts.

I'm just wondering: if this is a reasonable justification for the United States to attack a country, would it also justify a Cuban attack on the United States? After all, the United States harbors one of the bombers of Cubana Flight 455, which was brought down by a terrorist attack in 1976, killing 73 people. The CIA later admitted to knowing in advance about the attack, and one of the bombers, Luis Posada Carriles, lives in Miami.

I ask this only because I find Americans often reserve for the United States "the right" or the "justification" for actions that they would not afford to other countries. I do not ask this as a statement of support for Cuba, or in any way taking sides in the Barack Obama debate in this thread.

I think there is a difference. When Bush talked about countries who harbor terrorists, I'm pretty sure he was talking about major terrorist groups. Not individual terrorists. Since 1998 Bin Laden's terrorist group has been at war with the US. Since al Qaeda is at war with is, we have justification to fight back. Only thing is they have no country. But they are allowed to exist and train for continuing war with the US in certain countries. Some of these countries even provide arms and intelligence to al Qaeda. I think we are perfectly justified to go into those countries and hunt down al Qaeda.

Besides, isn't Luis Posada Carriles in custody now? If not he has been a few times, so it isn't exactly like the US is giving this individual full support.

btw, I'll bet Afghanistan with Taliban rule and Iraq under Saddam Hussein didn't didn't think we were justified to invade either, but they had no problem with these terrorist groups attacking the US. So if the US hypothetically harbored a major terrorist group, it wouldn't be the only country that had the double-standard.

I would hardly agree that Posada is strictly an "individual" terrorist, since he is part of the Cuban American National Foundation, which employs a so-called education and advocacy group as the front for a long history of terrorist activity. And Posada is not in jail. In 2005, he was held in Texas for being in the country "illegally" (not on terrorism charges), but an immigration judge ruled that he couldn't be deported. He was released on bail early in 2007. His latest "trial" is scheduled for later this year.

But the guy has been a CIA operative for decades, and has been convicted in absentia in other countries for his involvement in a host of various terrorist attacks and plots, some of which he has even admitted to (such as several bombings in 1997 of hotels and nightspots in Cuba). And it is clear that he was trained in the United States (after all, he was involved in the Bay of Pigs invasion).

It's an interesting discussion when double-standards are involved, eh?

But it is!

My diseased brain is my source!!!
When it comes to American Politics, you have one of two choices- Democrat or Republican. Otherwise you're just talking about the weather.

Barack Obama's SAT score was 1530. His IQ qualifies him an invitation to Mensa. He went to Harvard Law School, Constitutional Law. President of the Harvard Law Review. When he dated Michelle his Toyota had a big hole in the floor on her side. He legislates toward 2035, not 1835.

So Tracy, you may be right about everything. So what!!!?? Who do you want to be President in 2012?

I remember hearing that Saddam Hussein said Bush W was hampered by the fact that it takes at least eight years for the leader of a country to figure out what's going on. (that's where we fooled him, Bush NEVER knew what was going on, some backroom branch of the Republican Party called all his shots)
I think it took 14 months for Obama to figure out what's going on. I hope he takes on the Republicans like WAR. I sincerely hope he starts FIXING all the things Bush broke. That little rat prick. I hope he fixes healthcare, wall street, schools, economy, every thing but the middle east. We'll design an electric car instead.
And I hope it's all tied in together, and Americans start to understand what's going on. Because right now the Republicans are defending all the things that are screwing this country. Did they graduate High School, or what?
Cheering Sarah Palin is like admiring Tori Spelling's acting career.
Time for Obama to IGNORE the Tea Party. Leave them jumping up and down in the dust. Let them whine. Fuck 'em. Hang up on their bullshit. Let the Republicans have them. Give them rope. Watch them hang the Republicans in November.
You saw what happened when Obama went into a room full of the most powerful Republicans in Congress last month. He was THE MAN. All the Democrats have to do is hang onto majority of the house and senate in 2010. By 2012- LANDSLIDE.
God bless you and God bless America.

And your head is located where--Jimbo?????
 

I hope all your wishes come true Jimbo so that in the fall the Tea Partyers, the Republicans and All the Independants can gatther together and tell you liberal minded people where to go.

I think something has screwed your reasoning processes up so much--very sad :(

Is it walking the line in a political discussion if I mention that my balls itch?

Bionca called me a douchebag and NOBODY complained!!!!!!
I object!!!!!!!

Actually, while name calling, yelling, and flaming is bad for people's feelings, it is great for getting stuff done in Congress. All the stuff you wanted to do but were afraid to try, you can slip it through while your staunch opposition screams foul continuously. The Republicans have been crying Wolf so long and so loud, when they have a real case nobody notices. Rational Independents are going to be sick and tired of Republican whining by November.


C'mon and turn it on, wind it up, blow it out GTO
Wa-wa, (mixed with "Yeah, yeah, little GTO") wa, wa, wa, wa, wa, wa

mmmm I'd like to help you with that.;):innocent:
And your point is...:lol:
JK:kiss:

See you can be right sometimes ;)

Not Obama. Not a progressive or far left liberal. But not a bible thumper either, but given a choice, conservative bible thumpers are always better than progressives.

Even Sarah Palin and all those religious wackos-turned-policicians would be better than a progressive, and they're a theocratic nightmare. Except for Huckabee... he wants to make the constitution conform more to the bible. It's got to be someone who takes the constitution to heart and recognizes no matter what personal background they may have, the constitution represents the fairest way to govern people of all backgrounds.

Until I see who's running in 2012, I think a conservative libertarian like Ron Paul is what the country needs right now. But I'd like someone with his politics with better leadership qualities.

LOL you're talking about when republicans and many democrats stood against him on the healthcare bill forcing BO to make backroom deals with his own party to support him? LOL oh yeah... that's THE MAN haha

Not gonna happen. Your time is coming to an end :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=662R2awSwPQ

Nice Flic, I love a good comedy.

If you want to know who is going to keep the House and Senate this fall go to the one sure source..........LAS VEGAS!!!!

Oddsmakers give big props to the Dems this November, bet with your head, not your heart.

If I voted for the guy that best fit my style and opinions I'd write in Daffy Duck on my ballot.

I make racist jokes, I sin all the time but when I vote I vote for what's RIGHT.

Ooooh you shouldn't have said Las Vegas :lol:....

Las Vegas Mayor Rejects Obama's Invite to Meet After Anti-Sin City Remarks

Tensions between President Obama and Nevada elected officials over the president's anti-Sin City remarks escalated Thursday when Las Vegas's mayor refused an invitation to meet with Obama when he arrives in town.

"I've got other things to do quite frankly for my constituents here in Las Vegas who rely on me to do the right thing as a mayor," Mayor Oscar Goodman told KTNV Action News.

Goodman was invited by the White House to meet the president on the tarmac when he arrives Thursday night and to the town hall event scheduled for Friday, Goodman spokesman Jace Radke told FoxNews.com, adding that the mayor would consider the invitation if Obama promised to apologize for his remarks.

Goodman has said that Obama is no friend to Vegas and would not be welcomed there if he visits.

"I'll do everything I can to give him the boot," Goodman said. "This president is a real slow learner."

Goodman told KTNV that he was a bit surprised to receive an invitation after his widely reported reaction to Obama's comments. But the invitation hasn't softened his anger.

"I haven't heard an apology, I haven't heard a response. All I do is get invitations," he said.

This problem does not originate with people randomly inciting violence towards the government. It stems from Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and other democrats who said to hell with what the people want, we're voting for national health care and stimulus packages. Mr. Clinton, your warning is a bit late, and to the wrong people.

A vote for Ron Paul is not a vote for the Republican Party. Neither is a vote for Sarah Palin. Republicans have been trounced the last two major elections. And now they're going to be forced to vote against their buddies on Wall St. Mitch McConnell always looks like he just took a big dump in his pants. The face of the Republican Party.
You can bet Obama is going to expose Republican weaknesses in Sept/Oct while our boys start coming home from Arabistan and Stimulus dough gets spread around. What the Tea Party does means nothing. They are NOT the voice of the People.
The second half of Obama's first term will be interesting.

PS
Do you still have a J-O-B Tracy? You seem to have been busy lately.

There's just nothing new with BO. The space industry is waiting to see how congress reacts to BO's changes in space policy. He had them waiting for his Apr 15th space speech at KSC. It was another dud. He says ok ok ok... I'll allow the Orion capsule to be built, but it will be launched unmanned to the space station and never used except as an emergency flight back to earth. Gee thanks. So far congress thinks his ideas suck, so I'm hoping they tell him to go on a long TLI with a short burn time.

Before Obama is done a lot of people are going to be out of Business, China is coming up in our rear view mirror and with their 1.3 billion people vs. our .3 billion people, they're going to do to us what we did to them. Houston, we have a problem. Just from an economic point of view, in fifty years we are going to be in trouble. No matter who's in charge.
When Tea Party Libertarians say STOP SPENDING, they're talking about NASA, I think. Aren't they?

Even conservative libertarians know a good investment when they see one. Investing in exploration usually returns new technologies and resources. After BO tried to can the constellation program House Representatives sent the Nasa administrator a letter telling him to cease all activities canceling constellation. That they were not in favor of it, and that it still needed their vote. Ron Paul was one of the signers of the document.

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=33477

Government economic forecasters took a look at what national healthcare will do to us. They concluded it will not control costs as BO hoped and costs will actually rise. Is anyone surprised?

The report also projected that Medicare cuts could drive about 15 percent of hospitals and other institutional providers into the red, possibly jeopardizing access to care for seniors. Again is anyone surprised? BO & Pelosi told congress not to worry about the $trillion price tag. It will cut costs. Congress actually fell for it! What a bunch of fuckin amateurs.

PS... what's this latest buzz I hear about BO wanting power to take over any financial institution without any kind of review? Sounds like another step on the way to socialism.

You have Health Insurance, Right Tracy? Why? Because the Govt is funding Nasa to "pull a wall st" and justify itself as indispensible to America. The Govt pays for your Health Care. Did the forefathers endorse Nasa?
We'll see what National Health Care does, I hope it scapes all the human waste off the sidewalk and puts them to work, instead of drinking wine and going to taxpayer funded jails. I hope we're one step closer to Communist Health Care. You think the Insurance Companies don't come between you and your doctor? Health Care is not going to GET fucked up, healthcare IS fucked up. I got stories.
There are areas where Republicans and Democrats overlap, I make racist jokes but I defend ALL American's rights and that brings us to Illegal Immigration, one topic Obama doesn't want to tackle right before elections. It wouldn't bother me if they built a fifty foot wall between us and Mexico with machine guns and sniper rifles, and deported every dude that hung around Home Depot for daywork. Republicans and Democrats are fighting over the Hispanic Voting Bloc, and big business likes the fact that illegal immigrants will work hard for 5 bucks an hour. Buisnesses like the fact that mexicans buy beer, gas, food, rent. Me, I say make this a club witrh dues. There's nothing wrong with taxes and insurance. Just make sure people pay their fair share.

Political discourse would be so much better if people actually used terms correctly instead of adopting them as soundbites for the purpose of whipping up the more ignorant among the citizenry (by which I mean most of the citizenry, by the way).

Today's editorial cartoon in The Boston Globe:

Even communists have to pay their bills. We are over $12 trillion in the red and cannot afford national health care.

Insurance companies have come between me and my doctor since Clinton.

Why just the Mexicans? You think just the Mexicans want work here? There's millions, billions? in the world who are under the poverty level, threatened by drug lords or dictators, etc, who would like to come to America. Why can't ALL of them come here without going through the immigration office before becoming an American? Tell me that???

Part of what makes me sick about the Mexicans is you know they're illegal and yet nobody seems to want to do anything about it. It's like fighting the tide. I think the teabaggers better think twice about who us and them are. I KNEW Bush and Cheney were pricks from Day One. I think alot of baggers were surprised Republicans considered them "working class losers" even though they gave them there vote. Joe the Plumber was a fool. Obama spoke to him in person in a big crowd. No Republican would go into a crowd without 100 secret service agents. As long as Mexicans stay in my neighborhood, nobody but me cares. Republicans stole every cent while they were in charge, fuck the statistics, you know I'm right. WE ARE BROKE! What do you want to do, go Nazi? Obama needs six years to fix Bush's fuckups.

Now this just has me confused. You have at least eight different thoughts in your post and not one of them complete. I'm really trying to figure out what you mean.

My advice, ila, is to find a better use for your time. :yes:

You're absolutely right.

I agree that both parties are wrong about illegals. Democrats are downright pandering to them, and Republicans hope the problem just somehow goes away, but are also trying to get the hispanic vote. Which is another thing that confuses me. Hispanics who came here legally are also pissed off at all the illegals who are here. It seems to me that republicans, and democrats too, would want the much larger voting block of people who are here LEGALLY. You know, like not only hispanics who are here legally, but the vast majority of US citizens who are fed up with all the illegals here. Doesn't that voting block matter?

Wake up. Any candidate will talk to joe blows in a crowd and kiss babies. I'll tell you the difference between republican and democrat presidents... no make that the difference between Bush and Obama because not all democrats are this bad. After the columbia shuttle broke up on reentry, Bush came to Johnson Space Center in Houston and gave a speech there in the middle of Nasa. Anyone who worked there was allowed in and anyone of us working class losers could get within 5 feet of him. Bush also toured the other buildings in the center and spent some time there.

When Obama went to KSC to make his speech, his people told everyone who worked in the building he was giving his speech in to take the day off. They weren't allowed anywhere near there. And the audience were hand picked supporters of his space policy. Obama only spent 45 minutes there and then went to spend 2 hours at a fund raiser. Again your perceptions have no basis in reality.

Obama is waiting for the time to be right to naturalize all of them.

Damn. Again so close, yet so far. Gotta do better...

I think this applies to followers of Obama the Massiah too:

Brain Shuts Off in Response to Healers Prayer

Obama to Virginia college grads:
Why can't the self proclaimed technology president learn how to use these simple very user friendly gadgets? And what's wrong with iPods & iPads? There's a ton of really useful things they can do.

On another technology related subject, I find these two quotes interesting:
Bush put us on track to go to the Moon and Mars, but
BO as usual puts on whatever act he needs to get elected. He had a blackberry and knew how to use Internet Explorer. Bam, he's the Technology President LOL.

Now you're even blaming America's dependence on oil on Bush? LOL might as well, you dems & commies blame everything else on him.

Fat comicbook store guy says:

You're right Postman. This thread has pretty well run its course and is no longer serving any useful purpose.

I was going to ask other Moderators in a PM whether we should shut down the thread, since it has devolved from a genuine -- albeit sharp and heated -- discussion -- into name-calling primarily between two members. However, since ila posted above, I've decided to make this opinion public.

I think that the thread should remain open. Hopefully it will soon die and go to thread heaven (the back of the forum).

I don't think it will die, unless one of the two main participants simply stops posting. There is too much invested in the back-and-forth denunciations. But let's leave it be.

I say close this thread...and get back to serious matters. Like Jacking off to Shemales!! Haw Haw Haw.

I could make a pretty good case that this entire forum is an insult to the transgender community. But hey -Who Cares? Haw Haw Haw.

You've got a good point, jim.

I think most(if not all) of our transgendered members would disagree with your assessment.

I could make a pretty good case that this thread is an insult to reasoned political discourse. :lol:

Let's close it and start a thread on Kelly Shore. Wait, we already have a thread on Kelly Shore... Well let's start another! :drool:

Does anybody come here for reasoned political discourse? I somehow doubt it :)

If we can have a thread about Obama maybe we should have a thread about the UK's new PM 'Dave' Cameron - knowing the high level of education that exists in this country I'm sure it wouldn't degenerate into name-calling at all...