Wait a minute. Rooting for a "divisional rival" is verboten, but the traitorous act of switching to a National League team is acceptable?

Who are you? Louis Riel?

:lol: ;)

SHADOW:

I'm not surprised by your choice, but it is fun to warm-up for the season.

I can understand how you wouldn't want to root for NYY or BOS after years of looking up in the standings, like BAL & TB.

Francesa considers those 3 teams to be head and shoulders above whoever is next on the pecking order, are didn't name a 1, 2 or 3.

TAL

I see nothing wrong with having a fav NL team and a fav AL team

My fav NL team is the Phillies

While my fav AL team is the Orioles
:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

Oh, Jen, I was just having some semi-obscure-Canadian-reference fun with shadows.

I have a favorite NL team, too. It's the Pirates. I just feel like they need to have a fan who cares.

No, seriously, I like other teams besides the Red Sox. I went to college in Maryland and spent lots of time at Orioles games, and still want to see the Orioles succeed ... despite being in the same division as the Sox.

I like the SF Giants because my grandfather taught me to like them when I was a kid. He was a NY Giants fan and they still showed SF games on NY television years after the Giants headed west.

Bottom line: I love baseball.

No worries smc, I caught the Riel reference.;)

A Pirate fan, eh? It must be hard to watch that team! They trade away pretty well all of their talent when they are about to get a raise. I think the Pirates need new ownership otherwise there will be no change any time soon.:eek:

I can live with you liking the Orioles(would be better if you liked the Jays...;):lol:), Jen. I am just glad you didn't say the Yankees.:)

Didn't you catch what followed the Pirates reference? "No, seriously ..."

I loved watching the Pirates back in the Willie Stargell days (okay, the crazy uniforms were a bit much to take), but I think Major League Baseball ought to step in and take that team away from the owners and force a sale to someone who cares!

(I knew you'd get the Riel reference. But I bet you didn't expect me to make that reference, my friend.)

I remember reading about the Harold Ballard days for the Toronto Maple Leafs. He did not give a shit whether or not the team did well so he put the crappiest(cheapest) team that he possibly could on the ice so he could get as much money in his pockets as possible. Thank goodness he is no longer the owner. With the Pirates, it seems like that is the exact same thought process for the owner. As long as money is being made, why would more money need to be spent on players?:no:

You're usually pretty good for a reference or two on any given night.:cool::)

I must say about the Pirates, though, they have a great stadium. PNC Park, which opened in 2001, is an old-style ballpark, on the river, and you walk across a bridge that they close to cars on game nights. It's really a nice place to watch a game.

The problem is the game you end up watching, unfortunately.

That would be the sort of park that I would love the Jays to have. The Rogers Centre is such a sterile and lifeless place to watch a ball game. That is not to say that I still wouldn't go there, as I've never been there live(always watched it on television).

I've been to Rogers Centre. You're right. It is a sterile and lifeless place to watch a ball game. However, before the powers-that-be started paying closer attention, it was a great place to watch people balling ... in the hotel.

Damn. I was hoping for a show with the game. Looks like that won't happen if I ever make it to the Rogers Centre now.:(

Unless someone streaks across the field like in the olden days.:lol:

JEN:

This is not meant to be insultive or offensive in ANY way.

When I was growing up, I was disappointed that The A's had moved to KC, because I would have had a team in each league. Then, I found out that people around during those years were fans of one team or the other, and in NY it's still that way today with NYY or NYM for 95% of their baseball fans with the 5% showing up in October. The Angels and Dodgers seem to have that kind of relationship, The Giants and A's do too, and CWS and CHC do as well. Football and basketball fans are also in that same 1-team boat.

The old days in NY were: the snobs were Yankees fans, the white collars were Giants fans, and the blue collars were Dodgers fans.

I don't know what the story was in Boston with The Braves, but maybe The Professor will chime in.

I like the idea of having a team in each league--like CHI, NY, LA, SF-OAK--but I've yet to hear of any city doing it that way.


TAL

Why i like the Orioles

Because of my grandfather, My grandfather my moms dad he lived in Maryland so a lot of times when my parents drove down for a visit my grandfather would take me and my brother and my sister to watch the Orioles play so i'd see players like Cal Ripken [my fav Oriole of all time] Eddie Murray Billy Ripken, I even got to meet Brooks Robinson who was way before my time but my grandfather got me to ask him to sign a baseball for me which i still have

:yes: Jerseygirl Jen

That is a very nice reason, Jennifer.:)

Go Phillies...
 

I have 13 favourite AL teams.;) I bet it's not hard to guess the damn team I didn't include in my AL favourites.:innocent:

But seriously out of those 13 I have a soft spot for the poor old Athletics.

Why? A friend of mine supports them and in 1990 we were travelling around the USA by Greyhound Bus (yes, really) when we stopped off to visit some his family in Danville, CA (10-20 miles east of Oakland). They wanted to take us to see the Athletics, but unfortunately our visit coincided with an Athletics road trip and we had to leave California before the A's returned home.:(

I assume that by "The Professor" you mean me. Let's nip calling me that in the bud right now, please.

I may be old, but I wasn't even born when the Braves left Boston in 1953. I do know lots of people who were around then, though, and generally they say that when the Braves were here the breakdown was somewhat along the following lines (at least in the last decade of the Braves being here): fans for whom the Red Sox mattered most, 80%; fans for whom the Braves mattered most, 20% (a big part of why they left); baseball fans who followed both teams and couldn't get enough, 99%. People old enough to remember still talk about seeing Warren Spahn pitch.

I will say it again: there is no city where baseball is more popular than Boston.

I think Talvenada's explanation of the "old days in NY" is oversimplistic. One side of my family was in New York (the other up here in Boston), and so I spent a lot of time down there. My mother grew up in Brooklyn and was a Dodgers fan for the same reason most people were: a combination of geography (what makes a Phillies fan a Phillies fan, e.g., is proximity to Philadelphia) and a feeling of rivalry with "the city" (i.e., Manhattan). It didn't matter whether she was from a blue-collar or white-collar family (although it happens to have been the former). My grandfather, her father, had lived on the Lower East Side after coming to this country and was a Giants fan (and couldn't have been more blue collar). I can't speak for Yankees fans. Hell, I can barely speak to Yankees fans

Halos fan since 74.

Atlanta Braves fan since 76.

SMC:

Thnx, for the info. I only have a very superficial knowledge of what happened in other cities in the late 40's and early 50's. My info comes from comments made about those days, which are few and far between.

I called you professor, because I though you taught college classes for PHD's.


It's nice to see one city get it right, and root for a team in each league.


TAL

I do (how did you know that?), but I just don't want to be known as The Professor online. It's complicated, but it just doesn't work for me. Don't worry about it, though.

Here's a little piece of trivia about old Braves Field in Boston, for all you baseball fans out there. It opened in 1915, and was so huge that the first home run that wasn't of the inside-the-park variety wasn't hit until 1925! The original distance to center field was 550 feet!

SMC;

I'd bet that Rynosaur could hit 1 or 2 out after 2-3 years, because he has hit some monster shot onto Ashburn Alley on the fly and over a 25-30 foot batting eye at The Bank in Philly. That fence is 440' to dead center.

No wonder there weren't a lot of homerun hitters back 100 years ago. I wonder if other fences were that deep, except those that were shoe-horned into place, like PHL, BOS, CHC, CIN, etc. It makes me wonder if the bandboxes were the talked-about parks, while the rest were much bigger parks with more real estate to work with, or if Boston was the exception.

TAL

I can't speak for Ryan Howard, but I'm pretty sure "1 or 2" would be the limit. I have seen some homers hit out of Fenway that go over the Green Monster, across Landsdowne Street, bounce on the parking lot on the other side of Landsdowne, and then go over the fence into speeding traffic on the Massachusetts Turnpike. That is a sight to behold.

My grandfather once told me that the outfield of the old Polo Grounds where the New York Giants played could have held every person in New York City if they stood straight and right up against each other. It was, of course, an exaggeration, but everything I've read confirms that (dimensions aside) the look of the place was like driving across Montana, but without the beautiful sky.

SMC:

Just to add a point.

I should have been a bit clearer: the dead-center fence is 440', but the batting eye is 20-25 feet after the shrubbery. I don't know if you watched any WS games, because I know how it feels to have the season end sooner rather than later.


TAL

John Lackey threw 40 fastballs off the mound on the very first day that pitchers and catchers were due at Red Sox spring training. 40! On the first day.

Every team in the AL should be quaking in fear!!!

I'm guessing our Phillies fans are happy that Brad Lidge was able to throw 20 fastballs off a mound yesterday. Seems like he might come back very well from his surgery. The question, of course, is about his head. Thoughts, Jen?

The only knock on Lackey is that he started the past two seasons on the DL. He has stated that it wasn't something that he wanted to repeat, so he planned on doing things different this Spring Training. Not sure if throwing 40 pitches is something he used to do or not, but wouldn't you be worried that he was overworking himself so early?

Although this question was directed towards Jen, I would like to add my two cents worth.:)

I think having Doc on their team will help Lidge immensely. Doc was demoted at one point earlier in his career and he endured it mentally and was able to come back a far better pitcher than he ever was before. Even though Lidge has had success before, the mental aspect of the game is a huge contributing factor, and I think that Doc can help him with that.:)

I think Lidge will be fine and i'm more conserned with Holmes finding his head



:eek: Jerseygirl Jen

Not worried. John Farrell is one of the best pitching coaches in baseball, and he wouldn't have allowed it if Lackey wasn't ready. I think Lackey is so thrilled to be playing in the every-game-feels-like-a-playoff-game atmosphere of Boston baseball that his adrenaline is going to overcome any minor hurts in spring training.

Holmes is probably still trying to find his bearings after the Moriarty incident.;)

What in the world are you talking about, Dr. Watson?!

Moriarty played only one season in the majors, for the Orioles. I don't think Holmes ever came into contact with him. ;)

Moriarty was the dastardly fellow that sold the steroids to Big Mac(who thought that it was just a flu shot;)) and other MLB players and that is why he got punted from the Orioles. Plus the fact that he was caught "doing the deed" with the costume of the Oriole's mascot(I'm not even sure if there was anybody in the costume at the time:eek:) didn't help matters any.;)

Oh, that Moriarty. At least he wasn't caught with that creepy Phillies Fanatic costume, which looks like the bastard love-child of ALF from the old TV show and Jose Canseco's shrunken testicles.

Excuse me, now I have to go get that image out of my head ...

Or create that costume for yourself.:p:lol::p

Soon
 

Soon this thread will be hopping the way the hockey thread hops. Spring training games are in full bloom and are marching towards Opening Day. It is a well-known fact that baseball season means a better world for all.

It also brings out the craziness in people. Take my friend Pat, another Boston fan who nevertheless is buying into the hysteria here in Red Sox Nation that maybe our Old Towne Team doesn't have enough offense after losing Jason Bay and making no big-bat acquisitions in the off-season. Pat, who hates the Yankees as much as the next guy in these parts, told me the other day that there is no way the Red Sox will come in first in the the AL East division. Being a serious baseball fan, I replied that it is always a crap shoot in the strongest division in baseball, that the Yankees also have some offensive problems (mainly in the form of old men), but that perhaps it will be a wild-card year for our team.

Pat's response was to become quite agitated, quietly scream about the loss of Jason Bay, and "correct" me: "No, he said. You don't understand. The Yankees are going to win the division hands down. There's no question."

I offered Pat a friendly bet: I would pick the Red Sox and he would pick the Yankees (despite that a bet would mean he would root against his favorite team), and the loser would pick up the full tab in October at our favorite local oyster bar.

"No!" Pat insisted. "This is serious, and we should have a real bet. $50 says the Yankees win the division by 6 games or more!"

My instinct was to phone Pat's doctor. Clearly, he was having some sort of mental breakdown. But I made the bet. I mean, really, 6 games!

I tell this to all of you baseball fan friends here on the board only to remind you of the madness that will soon spread in those few cities where baseball is treated with religious, or near-religious fervor. Boston, of course, is the center of the baseball universe, but you know which few other places I mean: Philadelphia and St. Louis, primarily, and parts of Chicago (where genuine White Sox fans, and the 1/3 or so of Cubs fans who aren't just on some kind of bandwagon) reside.

I think that you have a sure win, smc. Six games is clearly delusional thinking. The Yankees have deep pockets, but they're not deep enough to buy a division win by six games. Heck, the Yankees would have to buy every team in the AL and then fire all the players and coaches and still it is doubtful that they would win the division. (I confess. I don't like the Yankees, but only because they think they that if they spend enough on players that they can win a World Series; and that is the only reason that I don't like the Yankees).

Thanks, ila.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post my plan as the season unfolds: I'm going to try to press the bet. I haven't decided yet which will work best -- do it when the Yankees are ahead (if they are), or when the Red Sox are ahead. My goal is to milk Pat's pockets for everything, and then (of course) because he is one of my best friends, give every cent back to him except for the tab at the oyster bar.

Oh, and make him wear a special t-shirt that I'm going to have made for him that he can wear to some local sports bar. It's going to say "Bitch for the Steinbrenners" on it.

:lol: That would be worth seeing.

Speaking of the Yankees...they got spanked by the Blue Jays yesterday 9-1! I realize that it's only Spring Training, but I love it when the Yankees lose!:cool:

Time to jump in here. Greetings from Detroit! I am up here visiting relatives for Spring Break and everyone is talking about the Tigers (What else is there to do up here anyway? Talk about the Lions? I can get rich up here selling all my Colts stuff! :lol:).

It looks like Verlander and Bonderman both had good first outings--I am predicting Verlander will have his first 20 game season and win the Cy Young. Don't yet know about the addition of Johnny Damon--as one of my friends said--"It's good... for him"! Thoughts?

Taking a trip down to Clearwater to warm up and catch a few spring training games
:yes: Philliefan Jen

Hooray, Jen! I'm so glad you were able to make this happen.

Do you need a passenger? I wouldn't mind getting to a warmer climate for awhile. I'll even be a Phillies fan while I'm there.:)

My god, I am just shocked. I never took ila for a whore before! :lol:

I would only do it for Jen. After I get home it's back to the Jays.

Sorry Ila but my brother is going with me, He's got the rooms and game tickets already and we're going down in stlye driving my Cuda conv and hopefully i'll be able to ride with my topp down


:yes: Philliefan Jen

Nothing like cruising in a Cuda with the top down. (Watch out for radar, Jen. Speeding tickets can be hard on the spending money.;))

Kojak with the kodak on the ground is no problem it's the bear in the air who's a pain

:lol: Philliefan Jen

It looks like Bonderman didn't have a good second outing. He got shelled by the Jays today.:)

And the Yankees LOST AGAIN! 11-0 to the Twins.:respect:

My friend, you do realize that in these games lots of guys who will never make the team for the real season are playing, and that pitchers are working only an inning or two, right?

So, don't get your hopes up about the Jays doing a lot of winning or the Yankees doing a lot of losing. In time, the AL East ship will right itself as it sets sail for the season, and then we'll see whether the Jays are in 3rd or 4th or even 5th place (I see the Orioles having an unexpectedly good season).

Baseball just ain't the same in Detroit since they tore down Tigers Stadium. I have fond memories of the games I saw there in my baseball travels.

One cannot say without any surety whether Johnny Damon will have a good or bad year for the Tigers. In fact -- as those of us in Red Sox Nation know -- the only thing anyone can ever say about Johnny Damon with 100% certainty is that he is as dumb as a stump.

I have no delusions of where the Jays will end up. I am just enjoying the success that they are having right now, as it will be fleeting for quite a while. I just think the Yankees are going to have a tough time with offense this year(I honestly believe that with them winning the WS last year their "drive" may be a little lower this season), and they have a lot of "old farts" on their roster as well. I mean, Nick Johnson? Really?:lol:

Isn't he a "Lovable Idiot"(or whatever he called the team in 2004)?;)

He's grown less and less lovable, but he's always been an idiot. The stories around here about Johnny Damon's, shall we say, "low IQ" are legend. People talk about seeing him at restaurants and they wonder if he can read the menu.

He can't. He just sees the pictures that look the tastiest and orders from there.:lol:

Hey, this guy makes a shitload of money. Some of the restaurants he goes to have menus with no pictures.

That is why he brings along a translator.;)

Okay, I realize that this has now become about you having the last word. ;) So, I'm going to let you win. I realize it's not much of a victory, but when you're a Jays fan you have to take what you can get. :lol:

smc,

You are right about that! I have many memories of that place too. Never been to Comerica Park--it looks nice on TV--just no "history" or "atmosphere." Not sure but I think the same company built Fenway, Yankee Stadium, and Tiger Stadium. There was a move to save it but it finally fell last year. :(

My take is that Damon's a big question mark. They did something similar with Sheffield a couple of years ago. Does this mean in a few years A-Rod will be a Tiger? :lol: We will see how they do.

Fun to be back "home" but always sad to see what has become of the city. Unemployment is very high here. Guess I can't complain too much about Indy...

The worse thing about Indianapolis (other than being in Indiana ;) ) must be the knowledge that there probably will never be a major league baseball team there, no matter how big the city gets.

Sadly that's true. We have the "Indians." I honestly do not know who they are the farm team for. They play in a very nice (but small) stadium called "Victory Field." It's an inexpensive but fun outing or date.

Most around here are Reds fans or Cubs fans. A few are for St. Louis. I even saw a "Red Sox" license plate holder coming home the other day. I still cling to my Tigers for better or for worse...

(Update: The Indians are the farm team for the Pittsburgh Pirates--just checked...)

I still think the Phillies ballpark is the best end of story

:yes:Philliesfan Jen

With all due respect, Jen, the only explanation for your opinion is the combination of being a Phillies fan and not having been to enough other ballparks. :) At least, if we're just talking ballparks and not our experience with our teams in a ballpark.

Or even first place.;)

Actualy i've been to a few differnt ballparks

1]camden yards-with has to be the second best park ever

2]the Mets old park-a bad place to watch a game as the airlines loved flying overhead
3] the Braves park- it was alright
4] when i was in SO CAL i went to the Giants old ballpark and like the Braves it was ok
5]the Angels ballpark i had a good time there as the fans seemed to enjoy the game and not take things to seriously this was before there rally monkey

Come up to Boston, and I'll take you to Fenway. The tickets are on me. You'll have a new favorite park, if not a favorite team!

Look at the Roger's Centre(formerly Skydome)! It looks like a freaking tomb! Ugly design. I would love it if they could make a nice outdoor ballpark, but I doubt they ever will.:(

I thought the Pittsburgh Pirates were the farm team!;):p:lol:

If so, they are the perfect metaphor for the decline of the American farm.

If I ever get a Passport(or the new enhanced driver's license), maybe I'll check out a game at Fenway(since you would be treating, of course;)).:respect:

The Pirates is a good name for that team since they rob their fans of any hope of post-season play.;)

The ownership for the Pirates makes Harold Ballard look like a money-spending fiend!:no:

Did it ever occur to you that the "tomb" design was deliberate, as a final resting place in September for the hopes of Blue Jays fans from earlier in the season?

Ouch! I think I would be offended by your comment if it wasn't so true!:eek:;)

I've heard the RED SOX tickets are always hard to get
:yes: Philliefan Jen

True, but you just leave that up to me!

Being able to see a Red Sox game...excellent.

Being able to see it with my friends...priceless.:respect:

Standing room only seat up on the Green Monster, with a ticket bought from a "legitimate scalper" (i.e., authorized ticket reseller), $125 - $500.

Beer to help dull the pain of getting "royally screwed" by said authorized ticket seller, $15.:eek:;):lol:

With the 2010 baseball season slated to begin in less than a week, it seems like a good time to bump the Baseball thread and give it the prominence it will enjoy for the next six or seven months.

Next Sunday, April 4, the season begins with "Opening Night" -- with the New York Yankees visiting Fenway Park to take on the Boston Red Sox. With all due respect to the fans of the Phillies, Blue Jays, and whatever other teams people root for (but haven't mentioned on this site), does it get any better than this? I mean, really: the greatest rivalry in sports, worldwide, with the only two teams that really matter! :lol:

(Okay, I take that back.)

Here in Red Sox, we are of mixed emotions. On the one hand, we want this to be the first game in a long, excruciating season of disappointment for Yankees fans. On the other hand, we want the Red Sox to be beating the Yankees at the end of the season when it matters. Unfortunately, we cannot have it both ways ... but we can dream.

The game will be broadcast on ESPN as part of its "Sunday Night Baseball" series. That is the one in-advance negative mark on this game. It means we have to listen to Jon Miller, who seemingly pays attention to no more than half of what is going on, and who insists on calling Jonathan Papelbon "Jon" (perhaps the Sox will so dominate the Yankees that we won't need Pap to come in and close out the game). It means we have to listen to Joe Morgan, who does have good insights into games but who never seems satisfied unless he repeats the same thing at least three times in a row. Joining them will be Orel Hershiser. Let's hope Orel has broadcasting talent and takes control.

Go Red Sox!

GO PHILLIES!!!!

:yes: Philliefan Jen

Do you have your season tickets, Jen? Or will you be just watching them at home whenever you can get over to see them?

Well, Jen, you fell into my trap. I wanted to see how big a response I could get from dismissing all other teams, and it looks like you used a very big font size indeed! ;)

I hope you realize that I was not seriously dissing all other teams. I love baseball too much to do that. :yes:

No season tickets for me so i'll be watching most of the season on TV but i well go to a few games at the ball park

:yes: Philliefan Jen

Darn! We were hoping to see you in the crowd at one(or more) of the games.:(

Jee maybe i should have tried out for ballgirl as the local broadcasts down here always does a camera shot of the ballgirls a couple times a game

:yes: Philliefan Jen

That might be the only thing that could get me to change my baseball loyalty.

Hey, baseball fans. Are you all aware of this pitcher in the Yankees farm system, Pat Venditte, who is ambidextrous? He'll be at Single A Tampa this season, but he pitched for the big-league club yesterday for 1-1/3 innings against the Braves.

He wears a 6-fingered glove and switches pitching arms depending on the batter. If I hadn't seen it for myself, I'd think it was a Sports Illustrated hoax for April Fool's Day!

I would buy the entire season of home-games on Pay-per-view if you did that.:cool::respect:

I read that article on espn.com. Pretty neat! As a poster there said, can you imagine if he could change the glove pitch by pitch(using the same glove, of course) to a different hand? That would throw off the rhythm of the hitters for sure!

First came the dreaded switch hitters now there's the dreaded switch pitchers

:yes: Philliefan Jen

Red Sox Nation, where we know the proper way to raise a child, is getting ready for Sunday night's season opener against the Yankees.

Anybody know him?
 

Does anybody remember a pitcher from 10-20 years ago who was ambidextrous? He might have pitched in the 70's even.

He was right-handed but he did throw left-handed in MLB games. He played for The Phillies, and I think The Padres and Mets. He was told not to do it anymore by one of the teams he was on. He was a player on the bubble of the teams he played for, and he was okay at best. He only threw lefty to a few batters before being stopped. He wasn't clobbered when he did it, but it was only a few batters.

There was a major league pitcher in the mid-1990s named Greg Harris who was ambidextruous. He threw one inning of shutout ball for the Expos in 1995, against the Reds, facing four hitters: two as a lefty (walking one), and two as a righty). Before that, Harris had been up and down between the minors and the majors for the Mets, Reds, Expos, and Padres, beginning with his 1981 MLB debut. In 1985-88, he pitched for the Rangers and Phillies, and was claimed off waivers by the Red Sox after Philadelphia let him go. He was nothing to write home about for the Sox, sometimes in the rotation and sometimes in the bullpen. The Sox released him mid-season 1994, he was with the Yankees for a bit, and then tried his luck with the Expos in 1995, retiring at the end of that year.

I remember that in Boston he was expressly forbidden to pitch with both hands. Lou Gorman, then the GM for the Sox, said it would be a "mockery" of baseball." It wasn't until his Expo stint that he got to "mock" major league baseball like that!

That's him!
 

Thnx, SMC.


That's the guy I was thinking of. I didn't realize it was so recent, so to speak.



TAL

The original picture...
 

smc, does Red Sox Nation have to claim everything for themselves? :frown:

This unlucky Dutch kid, a Feyenoord fan, now has to live down the humiliation of being associated with the Red Sox from such an early age.:p

Alas, I believe you are correct. The Red Sox picture appears to be the photoshopped one.

As for being Dutch, it seems to me that the young lad has a healthy career ahead of him plugging a dike with that finger.

So that means you're raising them up to be Phillie fans which is the only properway to raise a child
:yes: Philliefan Jen

Sorry, Jen, but around these points we don't teach our toddlers to shout obscenities at just any random strangers, only Yankees fans.

As it should be, my friend, as it should be.:yes:;)

:frown: It's gonna be a frustrating start to the season. ESPN-UK don't have any baseball scheduled during the next fortnight. I may have to wait for the NHL and NBA postseasons to finish before ESPN-UK start showing baseball.:frown: