Nono, you misread me. I'm in no way critisizing any one for striving for passability, perfection or any thing that is important to them. On the contrary I salute it completely. And yes, I realize of course the importance of the socalled passability.

My point goes to other aspects as well, though. Firstly, I don't find it fair when obvious pretty, gorgeous and "passable" trans-women look down on their less fortunate sisters. Secondly, I believe that gender identification is just as important for the less fortunate one than for the passable one.

My immensely wise (and extraordinarily beautiful and passable) x once said that "to be a succesful transsexual you must to some extent not only accept but actually cherish your masculinity". There's a lot of truth in that.

But again, transsexuality is as difficult to categorize and generalize as most things - probably even more so. I've found almost as many approaches to being transsexual as I've met trans-women.

My other x (equally extraordinarily gorgeous and passable) said it in another way: "I'm not at all aiming at becoming a "real" woman - I'm totally happy at being a very unique, transsexual woman". She certainly is!

Again, it's very personal and individual.

But basicly I fully understand and partly agree with your "abstract".

H

Well said Hank. We will never be women in the truest sense and those who purport as much are naïve and most likely beginners.

We are transsexual the third gender we are women with attitude. And we focus on our femininity more than natural women.

Aaahhh, but then what is "in the truest sense"? No, transsexual women will never become biological women (that would certainly take some work on the cromosones :-), but is a biological woman necessarily more woman than a transsexual woman?

I'm not so sure that she is - actually I'm quite sure she isn't if we open our minds and view this a bit differently than main stream beliefs.

This is obviously my personal opinion based on my personal experience - and that is that "womanhood" or "femininity" or which ever term you wish to use to describe the gender characteristics are diverse and certainly apply as well to transsexual women as they do to cisgender women.

Surely, you may have a hard time getting a passport stating "she" (due to screwed-up lack of understanding from the lay-people who rule the world), but does that make you less of a woman?

I don't think so.

So I find no reason why cisgender girls should have a monopoly on "womanhood".

H

fiesty
 

Hey Melissa!
Give them hell baby, the more you talk, the more I would like to have sex with you. When can I get an appointment? :inlove::turnon::coupling:

I view TS women the same as GGs, it is all about how they take care of themselves and their sex appeal. If ANY girl is sloppy of just plain unattractive to me, then I'm not interested. So, to me, "passing" is in an individual thing.

ts
 

The other day I was at Starbucks and a "girl" was getting a cup of coffee. She had enlarged breasts, a low cut blouse, a short skirt and high heels. She was obviously a ts. I smiled as I watched her walk past me and she noticed me looking at her. She then made a face at me and stuck out her tongue and strutted off. That's has been my only actual encounter with a ts. :(

LOL that one made me laugh. Do you really think you're that hot?

My profile picture is a silly caricature, and obviously not me. Now back to the subject... You actually said "It means I am a fucking Goddess now on your knees boy."

Tell us mortals, what makes you a fucking Goddess?

being passable is very important..... but more important is how the transswoman feel and think

very important.

must be fully shaven down below aswel.

Hmmm... time has passed since we discussed this. But I believe you're right, Mizzy B. It's more about pretty than "passable". I dislike the term, btw, "passable" as what?

Do I feel embarrassed if people can see that my girlfriend is a trans*woman? No, I don't - on the contrary, actually. Does SHE feel embarrassed? Probably sometimes.

So "passability" is most likely more a case of her feeling satisfied by her own femininity.

But pretty is the thing - and in this regard it is no different from any guy's attration to any girl - cis* or trans*. As I'm certain you also like a handsome man...

Let's not be hypocritical about this.

So here's the REAL question:

Personality and anything else aside, just LOOKS... would I prefer to date a pretty but not "passable" or a "passable" but not pretty trans*woman?

Well, you know my answer to that.

The whole issue is, that this damn "passability" thing distracts the point that femininity is not only a matter of feminine features. Femininity is personality and in the end these cannot really be separated.

I have several "non-passable" trans*friends (some of them strikingly gorgeous) - meaning that people know they are trans*women. Again, to many trans*women this is obviously an important aspect, so I have to respect it, but it's not the most important aspect by my current views. Her femininity comes from so deep inside. And THAT'S what I pick up on...

H

Hank - I prefer the term "blend" over "pass". I mean the opposite of "pass" is "fail" and I refuse to believe that any trans woman is a failure at being a woman.

Missy B, the one and only thing that worries me about the term "passability" is it's inherent despect for transsexuality as a concept. It is as if it doesn't recognize the beauty of trans*reality.

Why is it that a transsexual woman should "pass as anything"? Why can't she just be a transsexual woman?

I ofcourse know your answer to this one, but I'd like to challenge a little bit the neglect of transsexuality as a beautiful "state of mind" in its own right.

As Fiona (my x) once put it beautifully: "I'm a woman, but a TRANSSEXUAL woman not a bio-woman, and I'm happy to be..." I found that to be one of the most important and deep statements I've ever heard from a trans*woman. She pinpointed in so many words the whole issue.

Well, I'm just a fuzzy little "tranny-lover", so I reckon I'm biased, but yet...

H

Passing must be important
 

It seems to me that passing must be important since that is the direction all Tgirls seem to be going. After all; why else dress like a girl, wear hair (wigs) like a girl, use makeup, etc if you are not trying to look like a female. While the reasons for doing so are many, the direction one goes is still the same.
And if you are trying to look like a girl, then passing would be the test of wether you have succeeded. Now some of us do have to face the fact that it would be very difficult for us to pass. The best I can do is look ok for the camera. Now Melissa looks real good to me; maybe not the foxiest babe on the block, but believable as a female. :yes:

As far as her profession goes, as far as I'm concerned, it's a honorable calling and nowdays takes a great deal of courage. If it were not for the hagover effect of Victorian morals and the stupidity of the Christian Religions then our society would think nothing of it. :innocent:

So hang in there Melissa and don't let em get ya down:respect:

Okay. I'm going to totslly pretend that there is no controversy going on and just answer the question. I voted: Very important but not all consuming.

passable
 

passable is everthing otherwise I would find any gay man to fuck or suck me. It's the excitement of being with a beautiful woman who can turn-me-on with her looks and make me wanna go gay to be with her. This why I have no guilt for feeling this way. If a ladyboy can look so hot that I want to fuck her and give her head, THAT'S GREAT!!!:coupling::turnon::inlove:

Epic fail.
Also, you are very shouty, in a blokey sort of way. ;)

[URL="http://melissacarter.net/melissastory.html"]blog http://melissacarter.net/melissastory.htm[URL]
UPDATE: September 2008

In late Febraury, broke and depressed, I couldn't bear the thought of looking for yet another real estate job, which I was sure to be fired from. I had briefly dabbled in the escort scene. I decided to give it another whirl

At the same time I was meeting many clients and being exposed to a darker side of life, which included drugs. I quickly became hooked on freebase cocaine and all but ruined my life in a few short months.

Lost in addiction, and having the money to finance it, I had become an out of control addict of the highest order. This seemed to go well with my lifestyle, or so I thought, and by July my life was nothing more than that of a crack whore.
Oh, that explains your rant.
Interesting read, though.

Why is it so important to be passable?
 

I know that I will never pass.
I have feminine face, but there is nothing I can do about my length.
But still I have the right to be myself.
Most transgenders and transsexuals have something that give them away, we are not perfect.

The women on this site are very beautiful, but they are as representative for the average trans-woman as the girls in fashion magazine are for the average cis-woman.

Why do you expect us to be perfect? Most cis-women are not.
Beauty exists in many forms, it doesn't need to be perfect.

If you ever meet one of us IRL, I hope that you see the whole human in us, not just somebody for your own sexual desire.

I can only speak for myself, not other men on this site, but while I certainly enjoy looking at (and even posting some of the) porn here, my attraction to transwomen goes well beyond the exclusively sexual. And I really dislike this term "passable."

I respect and indeed celebrate your right to be yourself. Very well put. And while I agree with you that "beauty exists in many forms" and that it "doesn't need to be perfect," I do not believe that it is imperfect. If beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder, than so too must be the "perfection" that is assigned to "beauty." So much that is wrong with how people feel about themselves in this world, especially women, is linked directly to the development of a kind of universal concept of what constitutes "perfect beauty." When the world gets away from that, we will all be better off. Personally, I have never found the girls in a fashion magazine (as you say) more beautiful than "real" women -- and by real, I include all transwomen.

By the way, where you write "there is nothing I can do about my length," I think perhaps you mean "height." I, for one cannot imagine finding it unfeminine if you are especially "long" in a certain place. ;)

Maybe but one word:
Photoshop. ;)

Erer seen pics of kate moss after a long-haul flight?
& compared to the photos taken on the shoot just done?
Look like totally different people.
Its all makeup & photoshop.

Everyone watch this video:
http://www.boardsmag.com/screeningro...mercials/3421/

That is precisely how it all works. [smoke & mirrors]
So you, chill out & accept yourself,
& your height, about the same as a super-model
& that's good. :heart:

[QUOTE=Michaela;146532]I know that I will never pass.
But still I have the right to be myself.
Most transgenders and transsexuals have something that give them away.
Why do you expect us to be perfect?

Well Michaela, your post has made some 'food for thought'... especially your heartfelt question 'why do you expect us to be perfect?'
The way I see it, lots of men are exposed to Erotica (and of course porn) at a relatively young age and this may well have a long-term influence on what THEY decide a 'beautiful' girl (or Tgirl) should look like. I've been a 'lurker' at this site for nearly 2 years before I finally decided to jump aboard; I've read lots of posts in many threads and the number of guys who admit having discovered transwomen "while surfing through porn" catches me off-guard...
Thus, one can easily imagine the 50something pervs (like me) who run porn studios hollering to those responsible of the casting, "Alright folks remember: the Hotter the Chicks, the Stiffer the Dicks"! And I'm quite sure the requirements for always prettier Tgirls also prevail in shemale porn.

So my conclusion is rather obvious. The typical, 20something lad who regularly bombards himself with images and movies of cuter-by-the-minute Tgirls will, whether you like it or not Michaela, expect his eventual translover to not stray too far from the 'concept' of beauty that has printed in his brain.
I believe the trick for you will be to find an exception, a guy who'll be able to see the beauty in your soul, your heart, your mind; a guy who's lookin for a PERSON he'll feel good with (regardless the gender); a guy who won't give a shit what people say or think when seen with you by his side...
I wish you the best, Michaela!

i really like Transexual girls who are passable

for me they are the cream of the crop ;)