so, how have i exactly offended some members on here? so i may clarify my statements.

Thanks.

Umm actually I think I expressed my thoughts rather well.

You came on here and admittedly did not read the entire thread, but then presumed to lecture the Forum on gender issues. The point of our militant stand against ungendering is that the individual gets to make a self-determination of gender. You are welcome to an opinion, but not to tell others what they are.

Then you insulted by inference with your comment about coherence or the lack thereof in posts.

And in another thread, you were provocative in a way that caught the moderators' attention. I think others can simply look up those posts and draw their own conclusions.

Now, rather than acknowledge what you have done, you call upon others to post additionally so you can clarify. I suggest you take read everything again and see what you can come up with on your own.

The other thread is "only shemales?" ... where I think, Interesting, you might want to revisit your smug, provocative posts in the interest of a harmonious future as a member of this site.

SMC,
Thanks for the comment. Bully versus Transcougar on cable? You might have something there! I might have to bring my streeting fighting techniques from the alley's and parking lots outside night clubs to cable t.v. Is Jerry Springer still on t.v.? I might have to call his producer. If so I'll have to wear my tank top that says "Fight me an you fight the whole trailer park!" while wearing my tighest and most provacative Daisy Dukes!

Melissa Pink
Transcougar and Cum Slut

Whether a by God's hands or the surgeons...women of the world are deserving of respect. I alway respect a persons right to 'self identify'.

I'm so friggin confused !!!!
 

Reading this thread makes me think that most posters and mods are politicians in thier other life. Could someone--anyone that really knows--come up with a definition for each of the approved and dissapproved terms that TS-trans whatever call themselves. I find that noone seems to agree on most of these definitions so how in hell is someone supposed to wade through this mire ?

I mean people can't even agree that "pre-op" is always a person that still has a dick. After all they are not "pre-op" unless they intend to cut it off. Well then what do you call it?

Seems reasonable a point on a trans porn forum.
Though you will be unlikely to get everyone to agree on set terms
nor on what those terms mean.
Maybe everyone chilling out a bit helps.
It's really no big deal, unless offence was intended.

Non-op
Pre-op
Post-op are self explanatory for here and refer to the genitalia state and possible intent in the first two instances.
{If anyone really needs to know}
But on a trans porn site, not unreasonable.
Though even here on TLB, most of the time, it's irrelevant unless giving a specific context to a post.

Everywhere else, asking strangers about their genitalia
is rather wrong and marginalises us.
In real-life, the term- woman, will do just fine.



or if you are the trans-flavoured person going round telling folk about your own genitals
well you are just a freekoid weirdo!

I am not a politician in another life. My posts on this issue are consistent. The issue of respect is to honor the SELF-IDENTIFICATION of the person. Period. How could that possibly be confusing?

I so hate it that m girlfriend and bio female friends treat me like some novelty, the. "Aww you're so pretty" thing really kinda gets on my nerves. I'm doing this because this is who I am. I'm not somebody that's trying to entertain you or be somekind of barbie doll for you to play with. Ugh, can we get some respect please??! Stephanie

We'll be the judge of that.:innocent:
Citation required in the form of a face pic, please.
'Nudy pics' also welcome....:lol:

Agreed -- less whining please.

This seems more like being shunned or rejected which is even more painful than disrespect. So sad and so cruel :(

Well... thanx for the warm welcome. I see whats up with the people on this site. Not for me thanx I believe ill move on

Don't go!
It really is a nice and friendly place
and you don't need to put any nudy pics up
I was only teasing!

I'm glad you decided to stick around!

I hope that you'll remain an active member of this forum! We Southern t-girls need to stick together!

T.G.R.I.T.S. (Transgendered Girls Raised In The South)

This debate goes on and on. I believe it can be hard to define a person's gender or sexuality if we don't know how this person defines him/herself. I don't think anybody wants to offend. But let's be honest, how on earth are we able to define a person if all we have to judge a person by are a couple of re-cycled pics from a professional adult site and a few diverse comments added by other viewers?

My feeling
 

I think the trans genders have anatomic problem ,my be from hormones problem.
I remember that when I was child i Felt like girl .when I become man ,I like to get fuck by trans women.I think i have problem .I had never get fucked before.
Thank you

Ya, I've been away for a little while, so I missed this.
Ummm, I think your problem has more to do with grammer.

I read through this whole thread and found the video of Calpernia Addams, that Jodie posted to be both funny and informative!
To be honest I have never heard of Calpernia Addams before but I have to say she has a very sexy face!

There is a show like this on cable tv at the moment. It's a us show, but pits a bully against a professional cage fighter (ulimate fighter). They have like 3 rounds and if the bully wins or lasts like 3 rounds they win $10k.

Maybe petition the producers to let a ts do the ass kicking eh. There is that thai boxing champ that is a ts as well.


Its just the line in the sand that this site has made regarding labels.
There are plenty of other sites out there that don't restrict labeling, maybe have a look at them. Some of the sites that chat about especially thai and philo ts are so degrading makes even me cringe. All comes down to personal choice.

When someone defines him or herself as one gender or the other, then I agree they have a right to consider themselves whatever they feel they are. I don't necessarily think that creates an obligation for anyone else to recognize a person's belief.

What makes no sense to me is this notion some put forward that a person must choose male or female and can be only one or the other. Speaking only for myself, I know that I am a male, but I also know that on some days I am very much a female, even though my physiology might not say so. Even if I derive some benefit in my mind from the labels, I do not NEED them to define who I am.

I could not disagree more with the statement above that I have quoted and put in bold. The right to self-determination of gender is absolutely meaningless unless we are obligated to acknowledge that the determination is iron-clad. Were I to use the word "belief" to describe to any of my trans friends their self-determination of their own gender, I would expect to be kicked in the balls -- deservedly -- as their last act before dropping me as a friend.

My thoughts exactly. I couldn't have said it better.

An individual's right to self-determination is not in any way infringed upon by another individual choosing to see things differently.

They can say "I will not respond to comments seeking to strip me of MY self-determined gender", but they cannot prohibit a person from thinking whatever it is they want to.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you're saying that there are only 2 distinct genders and I could not disagree more with the assertion that everyone fits into 1 of only 2 possible boxes.

What you state with such certainty in the quote above belies a complete lack of understanding of what it means to have "rights." A person's right to something is meaningless without actuation of that right. Further, a right is an absolute; otherwise, it is also meaningless.

If you make it okay for someone to "see things differently" in that context, you are taking away the right.

Imagine if all the anti-discrimination laws that grew out of the civil rights movement in the United States were not enforced simply because the person who denied a black man entry into his restaurant said to that man, "Sure, the law says I can't deny any person the the right to eat here, but I don't consider blacks to be people, so I don't have to serve you. Sorry, but I just see things differently."

You may laugh at my analogy, but it is precisely the basis upon which blacks in the United States were denied rights for a very, very long time.

Now, let's extend your logic further with the analogy. As I understand it, the black man denied entry to the restaurant should simply not respond? After all, the restaurant owner, by your account, has an equal right to disbelieve that blacks are people.


I said absolutely nothing about how many distinct genders there are in my response. Your last statement is completely irrelevant to my point.

I'm not comfortable with the idea of a person or group telling individuals what they must think or believe. Behavior and actions are separate from thoughts and beliefs, though. Are behaviors and actions usually predicated upon beliefs? Certainly, but while behaviors and actions can be mandated and enforced legally, thoughts and beliefs cannot.

In the case of your shopkeeper, while he may be required to accept black customers, he still has the right to view those customers as non-persons.

You wish to mandate certain language when it comes to discussing the TG community, but language alone is not a guarantee or even a requisite for understanding and understanding is not a guarantee of societal acceptance. As a member of that community myself - albeit part-time, by some definitions - I am not bothered by another person's refusal of my self-identification.

You are saying that the denial of one's gender identity by another is wrong and is offensive and in many cases, that is probably a fair interpretation. However, not every TG individual is offended and I personally do not wish to be placed in that box, nor do I think I should be chastised for my reluctance to conform.

Again, I'm ok with not being recognized as a man or woman (as the case may be!) and several of my TG friends are very much the same. Just because we may be in the minority does not mean we shouldn't be allowed to think or feel this way.

By the same token, I will not demand that a non-TG person acknowledge my gender as a function of acknowledging my personhood. I am not my gender. My depth as a person goes much deeper than that and I feel that getting hung up on my transgenderism would actually cheapen my value as a person.

Other TG persons will feel completely differently - their gender identity and acknowledgment of same is absolutely vital to their everyday existence - and I fully respect their right to feel that way.

What is most notable about your latest response is how you have sought to shift the terrain. Earlier, you wrote:

When you take up my shopkeeper example, you write that the shopkeeper has a right to view black customers as non-persons, but may still be required to accept black customers.

What good is the shopkeeper's "right" to his belief if it cannot be actuated? Does it transcend the right of the black person to enter his shop? When a dispute erupts, which right should be defended by law? The right of conscience or the right of access?

Rights of conscience are tricky things. They are used by people to deny the obvious truth (blacks are, indeed, persons) and justify the denial of reasonable rights to others for all sorts of reasons.

You write regarding language, and of course you are correct that "language alone is not a guarantee ... for understanding." But you are wrong that language is not a requisite for understanding.

Most important, you write that you are "not bothered by another person's refusal of my self-identification." I suspect that you have not had your rights infringed in the manner of the black person in my example. I would not pretend to know anything about you specifically, but in my experience, those who have never truly felt the lash of outright discrimination are the one's who can most readily cede the pseudo-"right of conscience" to those who wield the lash.

I cannot possibly know what it was like to live in those times. No, I have never been told "we don't serve your kind here", and thankfully, I've never been the victim of a violent crime. Sure, I got beaten up a few times when I was younger and won a few fights, too, but I wouldn't consider those incidents criminal, even if I was sometimes teased for being 'different'.

I've been called names (who hasn't?) and teased behind my back, but no, I have never been called "queer" by someone who had something I wanted like a job or service. I'm not saying I want to experience that treatment either, but being called certain names doesn't bother me like it does many others, because to my knowledge, I've only ever been called those names by idiots. If others chose to discriminate against me on less trivial matters, I was never aware of it.

With regards to my prior statement, I appreciate your further explanation, but I don't think any modification is in order. What I identify myself as is in no way predicated upon how another will choose to identify me. Granted, I have the good fortune of being quite secure in both my manhood and my womanhood separately, plus I am also very happy with my androgyny, but I am the only one who determines how I will identify myself.

If others choose not to accept my identification, it's their right to make that choice. I don't want to make the argument too circular in restating too many points, but I don't WANT the power to force my personal thoughts and beliefs upon another person, nor would I ever grant anyone the power to do it to me. I may be a sub, but not even I am that submissive. ;)

I agree with you on the highlighted section.
It's ludicrous to expect society to control an individuals thoughts on something; like in this case the way a person feels inside about another person and their gender representation.
I think that we now split in our thoughts.

• I feel it is always appropriate for everyone in society to interact with a trans-variance person, in such a way that reflects their adopted gender. If a person appears to have male background but their attire says female, treat them as female.
• Likewise for F2M's where they may have some female 'Tells' but are clearly representing themselves as male, then treat them, as male.
• For a person who is not easy to categorise such as gender-fuck, then a polite discrete question asking them how they wish to be addressed, seems reasonable.

That would seem to be both polite,cover all bases and not require anyone to compromise their internal views.
Stay bigoted, but don't be rude and show it.

Of course anyone with strong anti-trans views will never come on TLB to read this so I'm probably preaching to the converted. :)

We do need to watch what we say and HOW we say it. Tgirls are real women and the correct term for vagina born women is genetic female. I learned that from a post operative friend of mine years ago and that the terms cut or chop is insulting as well. Gender reasignment surgery does not remove the gentelia, but in fact just reconstructs it. Nothing is removed except the testicles and the head of the penis while the rest is reconfigured into a vagina.

I know that a lot of people out there run into this misconception and before I even got involved in the community here or even at work from those who do not know better, say things like that. Then many people even say that transwomen are gay men. Then some trans girls even consider them that as well by actions. For example the same sex marrage issue is not only their political or moral belief, but some talk about it like they themselves believe that transwomen are men and to disallow it would prevent them from eventually marrying themselves. If you are a true female then you should be interested in the same sex marrage for political or personal beliefs just like many hetrosexuals do or even some religious people do and there are even some homosexuals who do not believe in it. Not because it disallows you to have a family.

Also, many should not knock a girl because she has the surgery. I hear so many say bad things about Danielle Fox going all the way like she is trash now. Then some say in general that they have no use for post ops. That is insulting! I can understand you wanting a girl to keep her penis and it is attractive as well, but we need to respect the individual. If they themselves want to go through with the surgery, than we should support them just as those who want to keep their penises. I have heard some post op females make remarks against other women who do not have the surgery as well. I have heard comments like freaks, or not really thinking like a female come out of some.

Respect is the key word! I may not like what my fellow man does, but that does not mean I am going to bully him or call him names cause he believes something I think is politically or morally wrong. He or she will get respect out of me totally.

I started out here, as one who was fascinated by the anatomy of the transgendered, but I was still always respectful toward ALL women! I am sorry that it happened. After meeting and dating some girls, I have learned that you women are nice people and feel for your hard life that you have to live. I now do like especially making new friends cause of what I have learned. I am single, to let you know, and I actually stopped looking around for my special one and have no interest in dating right now. I just like mingling with my fellow human beings and helping others. To settle down with anyone requires full commitment and if you can not give it, do not waste another individual's time. That is why so many broken hearts out there taking place and a lot of uncertain interests in many men when seeking a relationship.

Now this is only my opinion. Not saying that it is total fact, but what I feel about this.

I really don't know what to say exactly since I'm still new to this and the last thing I want to do is cause problems,but I will say this and that is society is very screwed up to the point where it continues to look down on others reguardless of race,sexuallity,sexual pref.,religion and other factors and until society can pull it's head out of there ass's and starts to accept others for who they are(Personality) then idfk really because that's just me.So an idividual has an extra part,but that's no reason to look down on the person or even put that person down.

Do most transexuals find it offensive to be refereed to as transexual? I love transexuals for being who they are. I don't see them entirely as women but as transexuals which is far better in my opinion.

You are trying to put everything and everyone in a box. Let go of YOUR insecurities and accept and judge people on their behavior and actions not appearance.

Chris Tina Bruce

It varies from person to person. and the circumstances.
Almost all want to be referred to as women as that's what we are
and it's easier for you to do so. If she wants you to call her a transsexual,
she'll tell you. (though this would be highly unlikely to occur, though the very occasional Ts women will identify as Ts rather than female)

Um, transsexual has two "s" in it. ;)

Yes I only refer to my beautiful (ts) girlfriend as a woman (as that's what she IS!) ... but occasionally she will refer to herself as a transsexual woman as she is proud of the journey she has gone through to become the gorgeous woman she is!

(Speaking of gorgeous women Jodie! Love your new avatar GREAT picture of yourself!)

" real woman comment"
 

I did a post a few days ago and actually made a mistake of using the term real woman, it was a simple mistake and have noted not to use it anymore, at the same time, if someone does use it like i did, just simply remind them to try not to use it and not target them as a bad person like one person did with me. its a simple mistake that a lot of guys make. some tgirls dont like the term shemale. I also find it interesting that someone might find the term real woman disrespectful but yet i noticed a post with a person saying how he likes pulling a tgirls hair while fucking them in the ass , seems to me that would be more disrespectful. thanks for hearing me out.

I plead ignorance, until today. Would it be ok to say Girl or G-Girl VS T-Girl/lady/woman? :respect:

If for some reason there needs to be a differentiation, I use the terms “ciswoman” or “transwoman.” Otherwise I simply refer to anyone female as “woman.”

Ladyboy
 

I am married to a ladyboy who I love with a passion. Superior in every way that maters to any female born in a fully formed female body. She has had SRS and she corrects anybody who calls her a woman and says with pride "I'm a ladyboy" and I love that. After being with her I could never go back with a mere female born in the right body. Have we "ungendered" her? I and her think ladyboys are far more than any mere born in a female body woman can be, the journey they take to get where others are merely born makes them so much more imho?

For a time I dated a lovely ladyboy from Pattaya. She was one of the sexiest women I have ever seen. She had everything and something extra. She LOVED to be called in feminine pronouns. I LOVED to call her my girlfriend, particularly when she did particularly un-ladylike things (like pee standing up - true story!).

My most common thing to do has been to remember the end goal. If she's MTF transgender, call her a she! Blimey! It's not rocket science! If he's FTM, call him a HE! Is it so hard?

Much love to all of you who are brave enough to be true to yourselves! :respect:

Newbie On Here
 

Is it disrespectful to say 'trans-woman' on here? Or is it deemed offensive?
Also, what is the best term to use? I hope somebody answers my question, it would help alot. Many thanks

No, it is not disrespectful to say transwoman. It is one of the most respectful terms I've heard although I would think that most transwomen would prefer the term woman without any qualifier.

Ila Could you please list out all the acceptable and the not acceptable names.

People walk around in here on egg shells.
Example: shemales yes or no the title about is "chat About Shemales"

Thanks

Hello Ila
 

Thank you for your helpful, quick response. :)

I'd rather not make a list. I could possibly leave out words or expressions that some may find offensive and others not or I may include words that some would think are not offensive.

I think it's better that members use their own judgement. If a word or expression, to someone posting, may look offensive to that person then perhaps another word would be better. Sometimes it's all in the context or intent as to whether something is offensive.

I'm not going to ban anyone or give out warnings for what someone says unless that person is malicious or continually insulting others. I may sometimes ask a question of intent or ask someone to rephrase or reword a post. However, there is no reason to walk on eggshells.

Applause.
 

I give Ila applause. No one needs to be banned for hurting anyone's feelings. I mean why are you gonna' come to Trans ladyboy forums if you are offended by the titles of Tranny, shemale, Ladyboy and so on?

I mean I know where those titles come from. I am not proud of them nor offended by them. But there are a lot of good men that are attracted to us by nothing more than those pronouns, I am not gonna' be hurt by whatever pronoun they use for me. I will tell them what I would rather be called and usually ion private I like the pronoun " Dirty Bitch".

So no. If you are trans and offended by Tranny or Shemale then this is the wrong place. I am actually proud to be a Tranny. being called a shemale doesn't bother me either. If I don't know you and you call me a stuck up Bitch then that is MS. Stuckupbitch please.:lol:

OK so I am a She male. What the hell else can you call me. Well you can be respectful and use female pronouns and that goes a long way but at the end of the day I have a penis (male) and I am psychologically a female so I am a "she" and a biological male so that makes me a "shemale". I am also transgender so that makes me a Tranny and Shemale.

I just don't understand why these descriptions are so offensive when they empower so many of us from high priced escorts to porn stars. I mean gay now is not even taboo. Trans kind of but, screw it. I am a tranny so sue me.:cool:

I know it gets confusing. Hell I'm a fucking trans woman and still hurt feeling sometimes.

People are people and it all depends on who you are talking too as to how many eggs you have to break to walk on those eggshells. Some are way overly sensitive but first and foremost be respectful. You can call me whatever you want to. Tranny, Shemale, Chick with a Dick, or whatever else. But as long as it is innocent then no probs. If it is said with malice then it becomes a problem to me. I cut guys a lot of slack because number one if you are watching shemale porn then you are somewhat attracted to us and I find that totally adorable. In certain parts of the world it has to remain hidden and you could possibly be killed if being transgender.

Look I came here and love it here. Some trans women may come here and find it insulting but to them I ask what do most men get the realization that trans women are beautiful and can fulfill a lot more fantasies than some cis women? Porn and the porn industry uses "shemale" and "tranny" as descriptions but they treat us that work in that industry just as good as they treat the cis women in that industry.

I mean I was born with a penis and grew up as a boy until puberty and then realized something was wrong. So I am a woman with a penis. women are called she and her and so on and males have a penis so I am a proud Shemale. I am also transgender which is a shemale so Tranny don't bother me either. You can call me whatever you want as long as it is with respect.

But the description I absolutely abhor is being called "It" but if I act feminine the female pronouns work for me.

If you feel the need to walk on eggshells here with me then don't. Grab your balls and ask me what I prefer to be called. Female pronouns I will tell you but Shemale and Tranny does not bother me in the least.

A big thank you bump!
 

A big thank you bump!

Look. This is kind of an awkward situation with names.
 

Really no need to walk on eggshells. I am a shemale, tranny, transwoman or woman. I was born male. I have a penis. Psychologically I am a she but physically more or less a male so I am a shemale. I am transgendered too in that I think and feel more like a woman emotionally so my gender does not match my physical body somewhat so I am trans gendered. I am a tranny.

Shemale. Why would that offend me? It can if it is used disrespectfully. It may be a description of the porn industry but it has made a lot of women quite a bit of money.

Tranny. Trans gendered or trans woman. It can also be used disrespectfully but also the porn industry has used this description of us too. I can't blame you for using this description as long as it is used respectfully instead of with distaste.

I am a girly girl in that I totally am feminine. I am not a genetic girl which most people would call cis women. But I am a girly girl. The clothes' the shoes' the makeup' the hair. the emotions, and so on. As a matter of fact some GGs if used as a genetic girl turn into Trans men. That would be like calling me a GM. So normally GG is used as a description of Girly Girls. Take Buck Angel. He is genetically a woman but he is a Manly Man. So the proper term between transgender and non trans gender is Trans and Cis.

Seriously though CCC, no descriptions offend me or should anyone because we know where you get the names from.;) It isn't as much about descriptions and names as much as it is about respect. Just be respectful. That is all we ask. Some do get offended by names because they haven't quite come to terms or too fragile psychologically even. I know who and what I am. Why deny it. I tell any guy up front. But then again I ain't hiding anything. If I go to a straight bar with girlfriends then I will thank a guy for a drink and that is all.

There was a member here that offended me because he talked about trans women looking like men dressed in women's clothes. In other words hairy legs, facial stubble and so on dressed in women's clothing. That sounds like no trans woman that I know of. In total actuality trans women shave their legs probably more than cis women do. Even in the winter time. Even in jeans. We usually love the feel of smooth legs not because of you necessarily but our selves. We go through hell with hair removal. We do not have 5 O'clock shadow. Shaving sometimes twice a day is irritating to the face, but we get used to it for you guys. We really don't want you to be seen with us with 5 o'clock shadow poling through our makeup. We don't want that for ourselves even but it is for you. So we shave with the grain first and then totally against the grain not once but twice a day. Then we usually wake up early and do it again for you.

But seriously this is a trans forum and I am trans. I know where most guys get the descriptions from and I prefer to be called a woman but shemale and tranny don't bother me at all.

Please stop walking on eggshells and just be respectful no matter what description you use. If I am here then I know the deal. If I was so fragile that descriptions bothered me so much then I would be on other sights crying about it.

Look. Guys here are so special. I know where the curiosity stems from. It really is a good thing because it gives us legitimacy as women. Not only women but desirable women.

So stop worrying so much about the eggshells. Just be respectful, never compare us to men and ask away. Only one person that I know of has offended me here. No one else.

:respect:

That's good to know. Personally, I do try to be as respectful as possible, and when I do slip and use something potentially offensive, I do worry about hurting people's feelings, when I really didn't mean to. I think if people had more conversations like this, we may be in danger of actual progressing as a society. It's nice to hear the opinion of someone who is actually trans. Hooray for opportunities to learn and grow as a person. :)

Terms like "shemale" and "tranny", and to a greater extent "femboi", "ladyboy" and "twink" all kind of excite me, because they make me think about individuals that I find sexy. I'd never use them to disparage someone.

Great post.
I'm new to the trans community, and honestly I just view women as women.
I've dated anatomically considered women with upper hair on their upper lip. I don't really care, it's just is what it is, everyone is unique and different.
like you pointed out, to me the most important thing is to treat everyone with respect.
And it's very easy to tell those who don't respect.

Well said. :respect: Haven't seen you around here in a long time. Hope you'll come back my friend. :cool:

Andy

I certainly agree. Even though the site is geared to people who enjoy transexual pornography, I've made a real effort not to use terms like "shemale"or "tranny"anymore. Yes, I may objectify these ladies as sexual fantasies, but I am well aware that they are worthy of respect as performers and as people.:respect:

Found this today as I sought more info to the very topic you're speaking of. I added a post for terminology identification. Having just replied to another member I recalled a name from a while back. I remembered you and some of the hardships you encountered but couldn't exactly recall your tag [name]. I don't think I'll forget 'you wonderful you' ever again.
More importantly, your sound advice and logical thinking behind all your comments were always a bright spot to TLB.